20:00:50 <suehle> #startmeeting
20:00:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 29 20:00:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is suehle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:52 <sesivany> hi, who's up for the meeting?
20:01:04 <Viking-Ice> here
20:01:14 <bogomil> bogomil here
20:01:19 <suehle> #meetingname Fedora Marketing
20:01:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing'
20:01:20 * jnalley is here
20:01:23 * graphite6 waves
20:01:26 <fran_m> Fran is here too
20:01:31 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
20:01:32 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
20:01:47 <suehle> Hey, people at a meeting. Crazy talk. :)
20:01:49 <AnnaE> Anna E is here
20:01:55 <suehle> #chair graphite6
20:01:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: graphite6 suehle
20:02:01 * jbrooks is here
20:02:42 <suehle> #topic I am number 18
20:02:53 <bogomil> well it's me :)
20:02:56 <suehle> bogomil, do you want to introduce this in case not everybody's caught up with the thread?
20:03:01 <bogomil> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bogomil/I_am_18
20:03:39 <bogomil> is the page with more info,, but in short: let's create a nice community engagement campaign for Fedora 18
20:04:13 <bogomil> to epower creativity and ti build more stronger user base + we can act more in the social networks
20:04:22 <bogomil> s/epower/empower
20:04:56 <bogomil> it's not an unique idea but it's fun and it works
20:05:03 <bogomil> that's it from me
20:05:34 <bogomil> questions?
20:05:40 <sesivany> I like the idea, I've got only one concern: Flickr as the only way to submit pictures. We should use our infrastructure first. An external service may be one of the options, but not the only one.
20:05:49 <suehle> I'm of two minds on that:
20:06:09 <suehle> 1, Flickr not open, etc. BUT it's not preaching to the choir. There are a LOT of eyes there that we could reach that we might not otherwise.
20:06:13 <bogomil> not only flickr, we an use a simple form and visualise it
20:06:33 <suehle> 2, We've recently set up a Gallery instance on our own infra, but that's not much of a campaign. Pretty much makes it for our own enjoyment.
20:06:50 <bogomil> a campaign + a simple submit form + visualisation with moderation
20:07:14 <suehle> I also think the hashtag should simply be #Fedora18 without making four tags (four LONG tags) out of it
20:07:17 <sesivany> we can collect pictures the same way we collected wallpapers for F18: people uploaded it to the wiki and linked it.
20:07:22 <bogomil> so you can host your image whenever you want
20:07:55 <suehle> But is the goal of an effort of this size to pat ourselves on the back, or to hope new people hear about Fedora?
20:08:01 <bogomil> yes we can, but the idea is to make them think about 4F's
20:08:24 <bogomil> new people mainly + the community
20:08:41 <suehle> Then ask for them to demonstrate one of the Fs in the picture. But the point of a hashtag is to be able to see everything in one place, so splitting it into 4 defeats that.
20:08:47 <suehle> Well, if you want to reach new people, just posting them on our own wiki isn't going to find them.
20:08:48 <bogomil> it's kind of "bring the emotion ob board"
20:09:05 <bogomil> all right 2 tags then
20:09:09 <suehle> I'm not necessarily saying require Flickr or some other external service, but playing in our own backyard won't help the neighborhood kids join the game.
20:09:11 <bogomil> Fedora and one F :)
20:09:39 <bogomil> the idea is to visualise the tags separate, but in one page
20:09:40 <graphite6> I think it would be a great way to 'see' a lot of other community members
20:09:51 * nirik notes theres a gallery3 instance being worked on, but it's not ready yet for this, but down the road it might well be.
20:10:05 <suehle> Maybe I'm not imagining the same sort of visualization mechanism you are either. Do we have a volunteer to work on building that?
20:10:32 <bogomil> just imagine huge 4F's full with thumbnails
20:10:53 <bogomil> I can work for part of it
20:11:23 <bogomil> it's just .js and some php :)
20:11:45 <suehle> bogomil, do you want to gather up a team and work on it then?
20:11:57 <bogomil> yes
20:12:07 <bogomil> that will be nice :)
20:12:37 <bogomil> but mainly I will focus on the marketing side of the campaign + some inor part of programming
20:13:07 * jreznik_ is partially around
20:13:22 <bogomil> I will try to describe the idea this week with full requirements
20:14:05 <bogomil> are we here?
20:14:17 <graphite6> #action bogomil will try to describe the idea this week with full requirements (I am 18 app)
20:15:21 <suehle> thanks.
20:15:32 <graphite6> we've got a split personality :D
20:15:37 * suehle wandered over to the mktg channel and continued the meeting in the wrong place
20:15:59 <bogomil> next topic :)
20:16:06 <suehle> #topic social media
20:16:15 <suehle> This is probably something that needs a whole other subteam too. We've kind of got a mess
20:16:23 <suehle> Presumably the right team starts with the people currently managing each of the services. There's not a social media mailing list is there?
20:16:46 <bogomil> it's a marketing task as well, we don't need another mailing list
20:16:48 <sesivany> no, there is not. I'm managing Google+ account.
20:16:51 <graphite6> I don't think so but I think there is wikipage listing who is operating the different channels
20:17:12 <suehle> The wiki page definitely exists
20:17:14 <jnalley> suehle: there was a mailing list yes
20:17:29 <sesivany> graphite6: I think it's a bit out-dated.
20:17:29 <suehle> jnalley, was like is inactive or was like got deleted?
20:17:52 <jnalley> suehle: not sure, checking now
20:18:04 * bogomil can help with social networks, this is my specialty and day job )
20:18:11 * suehle plays the intermission music
20:18:22 <jnalley> suehle: actually no, it doesn't look like there was.  there was a FAS group created, but no mailing list
20:18:22 <graphite6> sesivany: gotcha, so first task might be to inventory all the channels and see who owns them
20:18:47 <suehle> jnalley, noted
20:19:19 <graphite6> #info social media FAS group created but there isn't a social media mailing list
20:19:43 <bogomil> let's keep it in the marketing stream
20:19:51 <suehle> graphite6, want to split the list and help me confirm who those people are with access to the accounts?
20:19:52 <bogomil> it's marketing issue
20:19:52 <jnalley> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Status_and_microblogging_SOP#Access_Control
20:20:00 <jnalley> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_social_networks#Current_accounts
20:20:01 <sesivany> from what I have observed: we're non-existent on FB, and Twitter account is not updated very often, too. These two should be the main social media channels together with G+.
20:20:09 <graphite6> suehle: sure
20:20:17 <Viking-Ice> there are atleast two Fedora groups on fb
20:20:28 <Viking-Ice> Fedora and Fedora community
20:20:33 * nirik thinks sesivany has been doing great on g+... everytime I think to post something it's already there. :)
20:20:34 <suehle> And it's all reasonably easily centrally managed in HootSuite.
20:20:40 <jnalley> sesivany: sure, the content and frequency of which stuff is sent out seems to usually also dip into the topics of $userbase and $targetaudience of those social networks
20:20:43 <jreznik_> nirik: +1
20:21:01 <graphite6> #action suehle and graphite6 will split social media account list and update it
20:21:07 <jnalley> suehle: we looked into using hootsuite before but it was deemed not cool due to being non-free in every sense
20:21:19 <jsmith> Yeah...
20:21:27 <suehle> jnalley, bleargh.
20:21:30 <jsmith> I think that idea got dropped like a hot rock
20:21:36 <sesivany> nirik: thanks, I'm trying to do my best :)
20:21:49 <bogomil> I can help with some ideas for using tools :)
20:21:54 <graphite6> is there a service like Hootsuite that is open souce?
20:22:00 <jbrooks> hootsuite is one of the only ways to interact w/ g+ without going directly through the interface
20:22:15 <jbrooks> they get to use the sekrit rw api
20:22:15 * graphite6 admits to using Hootsuite herself :D
20:22:23 <bogomil> we need social stream analytics tool as well, not just one ay communication
20:22:27 <suehle> it's the only way I know of to do g+ without going to it
20:22:35 <jnalley> graphite6: there hasn't been every time the question has come up over the past several years. the last i heard fedora insight was going to be one of the answers to this but i'm not sure of the statu sof that tool.
20:22:42 <sesivany> what I don't like about aggregators such as hootsuite is that every social networks requires a bit different style of messages.
20:23:04 <sesivany> we can't simply send the same message to Twitter and Facebook.
20:23:05 <suehle> We've been around this circle a few times with opensource.com too, and I don't know of an open source HS.
20:23:05 <jnalley> sesivany: agreed. i'm not sure that's a negative aspect so much as something to keep in mind when posting
20:23:31 <suehle> We ended up using it (or others) for opensource.com because it was one of those cases of "do a good job spreading the word about open source, unfortunately with a non-open tool" or "fail."
20:23:49 <suehle> sesivany, jnalley It doesn't mean you can't customize your message.
20:24:01 <jnalley> suehle: agreed, that was my point, you totally have ot
20:24:23 <suehle> But it's a thousand times easier to go across the row of services in HS than to go to identi.ca, post; go to twitter, post; go to fb, post...
20:24:26 <bogomil> there is no way to get to non-free-software community using only foss tools - we need those guys on board
20:24:27 <jbrooks> And of course fb, g+ and twitter aren't open
20:24:43 <jbrooks> source
20:24:50 <jnalley> BTW, as mentioned on the "Marketing social networks" wiki page, identi.ca abilities was also a downside of HS and the idea with insight was that we would primarily post to identi.ca and have it re-broadcast to twitter.  that's what i do today
20:25:01 <sesivany> any idea who's managing this page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora/8064650479?ref=ts&fref=ts ? it has over 27,000 followers, that's a decent amount.
20:25:11 <suehle> yeah, the ability to get to identi.ca from hs in one way or another has come and gone and come and gone
20:25:16 <bogomil> it's not about the posting, it's about strategy and goals
20:26:00 <bogomil> and communication
20:26:30 <bogomil> believe me - this is what I am getting paid for :)
20:27:06 <suehle> So are we starting to reach the opposite consensus--that using HootSuite or a similar tool even though it's not free is OK?
20:27:47 <jnalley> suehle: tough question. :-)
20:27:59 <bogomil> it's ok by me - we need to convert closed minds to open minds and we will use even those tools :)
20:28:35 <graphite6> suehle and jnalley: it is a tough question, I lean on the side of using something like Hootsuite to reach maximum audience
20:28:36 <fran_m> :-(
20:28:38 <suehle> I think with opensource.com we even ended up writing a post about why we chose to do things that way--we could do something similar for Fedora. A wiki page about the choice.
20:28:42 <sesivany> suehle: I'm personally using Hootsuite at work. But I'd rather see one person being responsible for one network than one person sending messages to all networks.
20:29:09 <nirik> sesivany: +1
20:29:11 <jnalley> sesivany: teams FTW
20:29:12 <suehle> sesivany, I'm thinking more like several people having more access. Multiple people each with one account is what we have now.
20:29:14 <bogomil> sesivany: +1
20:29:32 * giallu around after putting kids to bed
20:30:03 <graphite6> suehle: +1 on a wikipage explaining how we decided to use or NOT use an aggregator
20:30:07 <suehle> So if for example, you and I are both on the social media team, and I'm sleeping when there's an announcement that Fedora has decided to switch to KDE as default, you can post it to everything instead of waiting for me to wake up to do whatever I'm in charge of.
20:30:37 <bogomil> suehle: one per zone
20:30:42 <graphite6> Also agree with bogomil that we need goals/strategy
20:30:44 <jnalley> suehle: great example
20:30:50 <jreznik_> cool, when we're going to switch? :)
20:31:05 <suehle> #action graphite6 and suehle to round up current social media owners and start a social media team
20:31:13 <jnalley> bogomil: the goals/strategy thing was behind part of the content here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Status_and_microblogging_SOP
20:31:14 <bogomil> graphite6: Thanks
20:31:16 <suehle> Well, there is the matter that shared access in HootSuite requires a paid account.
20:31:57 <sesivany> suehle: and I think the free version is only up to three accounts.
20:32:07 <bogomil> jnalley: I know, but the question is - it's useless just to post something without setting a goal, mini campaign and metrics :)
20:32:28 <suehle> sesivany, yeah, I've kind of lost track because I HAD a paid HS account, and I feel like when it went away, they let me keep paid benefits. It's weird.
20:33:14 <suehle> but it's also super cheap, so we could probably find budget if that's what it comes to
20:33:37 <suehle> OK, let's go with that action item and keep moving, because graphite6's excellent list is excellent, and we have more people here than usual :)
20:33:37 <graphite6> I think HS is $5.99 a month
20:33:49 <sesivany> bogomil: first, we have to get control over those accounts :) That should be the first step.
20:33:59 <jnalley> correction to my earlier statement, based on prior correspondence, there was or at least was supposed to be a mailing list setup: fedora-socialmedia-members@fp.o but all I know is that it's not there now.
20:34:05 <suehle> sesivany, most definitely +1
20:34:09 <suehle> #topic Marketing SOP
20:34:10 <bogomil> sesivany:yes
20:34:17 * suehle points at jreznik
20:34:26 <jnalley> #link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/view/fedora-socialmedia
20:35:00 <suehle> jreznik_ quite possibly runs and hides :D
20:35:06 <bogomil> define SOP
20:35:11 <jreznik_> it's my second me :)
20:35:23 <suehle> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Marketing_SOPs
20:35:24 <jreznik_> suehle: what's the status - has been anyone working on it before or not?
20:35:30 <jnalley> bogomil: Standard Operating Procedure
20:35:37 * jreznik_ is looking
20:35:42 <suehle> jreznik_, I was kind of hoping you knew the status. :) It was begun before I'd done much with the marketing team.
20:36:07 <suehle> some of them are quite empty, e.g., http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Beta_announcement_SOP
20:36:26 <graphite6> I don't know if any of the SOPs have been touched much since 2010 - was toying with creating one for an event announcement months ago
20:36:59 <jreznik_> suehle: well, it's my first release too :)
20:37:15 <jreznik_> suehle: yeah, the beta, missing alpha is problem
20:37:20 <suehle> jreznik_, I didn't go searching for the source, but graphite6 had tagged you in her list, so I thought maybe you knew. Sorry!
20:37:37 <suehle> Anybody see things on that list they'd really like to write or help write?
20:37:41 <jreznik_> suehle: np, I'm interested in the topic so I'm here
20:37:54 * jreznik_ is ok to help on that Alpha/Beta based on Final one
20:38:06 <graphite6> so we should 1. review the marketing SOPs 2. Decide which ones need to be updated or created
20:38:14 <jreznik_> graphite6: yep
20:38:34 <suehle> #action jreznik_ to work on alpha/beta announcement SOPs
20:38:44 <AnnaE> Is there any way I can get added to the marketing sop list?
20:38:50 <suehle> The easy part is to click them and see the empty ones. :D
20:38:58 <suehle> AnnaE, it's not a separate mailing list or anything.
20:39:08 <graphite6> I'm also willing to help write/edit some of the SOPs
20:39:12 <suehle> AnnaE, See the link above to the wiki list of them
20:39:13 <AnnaE> ok!
20:39:27 <suehle> #action graphite6 To write [some] SOPs
20:39:29 <AnnaE> bookmarking pages now
20:40:03 * bogomil says SOP != SOPA :)
20:40:19 <graphite6> bogomil: lol
20:40:53 <graphite6> anyone else with burning SOP questions/ideas?
20:41:16 <bogomil> nope
20:41:28 <suehle> #topic Flyers
20:41:45 <sesivany> that was my idea.
20:41:52 <suehle> This is high on my priority list before conferences start rolling around again at the beginning of the year.
20:42:04 <sesivany> I think it would be handy at conferences.
20:42:05 <suehle> I feel like December is "woohoo, get off planes and breathe" month. :D
20:42:19 <bogomil> suehle: +1
20:42:20 <graphite6> sesivany: +1 on flyers for different dev languages
20:42:26 <suehle> eischmann had requested some very specific things on languages
20:42:34 <suehle> "Ruby, Java, Python,... in Fedora with information why Fedora is a great platform for developing in a particular language"
20:42:49 * graphite6 loves her Ruby and runs from Python
20:43:05 <suehle> I know I'd have to do some outreach for help on making good content there. Anybody here an expert in one of those things?
20:43:36 <sesivany> we had a Ruby+Python conference here recently, I was thinking how to promote Fedora among devs attending the conference and thought such fliers would be a good thing to hand out.
20:43:36 <graphite6> I'm swimming in Java and Ruby expertise over here :D
20:43:44 <bogomil> suehle: I can help with  programming things
20:44:08 <suehle> bogomil, anything in particular?
20:44:20 <bogomil> suehle: PHP/node.js
20:44:27 <sesivany> suehle: I can definitely provide you with contacts to people who maintain Ruby and Java in RHEL/Fedora.
20:44:29 <suehle> #action graphite6 to work on Ruby and Java flyer content
20:44:51 <suehle> #action bogomil can work on PHP and node.js content
20:45:03 <suehle> #action sesivany to tell suehle about her new Ruby and Java friends
20:45:27 <graphite6> sesivany: tell me too, we might have mutual pals
20:45:35 <bogomil> do we need to focus only on dev topics?
20:45:44 <suehle> Do you all think we could have a first draft of that content by December 14?
20:46:02 <bogomil> suehle: Fine with me
20:46:04 <suehle> bogomil, This was just one specific idea based on previous brochures that had been for tasks like graphic design or music production.
20:46:14 <graphite6> bogomil: no, I think we also want to think about non-developer audiences and non-bleeding edge audiences
20:46:26 <bogomil> suehle: got it
20:46:35 <bogomil> graphite6:education sector
20:46:37 <giallu> do we need design team input for this?
20:46:39 <suehle> We also could stand to update those. I'll take on that task.
20:46:41 <graphite6> suehle: Dec 14 works
20:46:53 <sesivany> suehle, graphite6: I was thinking of Vit Ondruch (maintains Ruby), Pavel Tisnovsky (openJDK QA) or someone else from JBoss team in our office.
20:46:59 <suehle> giallu, I think we can probably start with the templates from the others and ask the design team if they'd like to update them.
20:47:06 <bogomil> giallu: most probably we will need a template :)
20:47:07 <suehle> giallu, But it always helps a designer to have content first. :)
20:47:15 <giallu> ok
20:47:23 <suehle> #info <sesivany> suehle, graphite6: I was thinking of Vit Ondruch (maintains Ruby), Pavel Tisnovsky (openJDK QA) or someone else from JBoss team in our office.
20:47:23 <giallu> translations?
20:47:40 <suehle> I don't know if we've translated anything but the basic Fedora brochure before.
20:47:44 <suehle> The docs team uses Transifex.
20:47:48 <fran_m> I can help with Spanish and Catalan
20:47:57 <giallu> suehle, I did for some we printed in italy some time ago
20:48:09 <sesivany> suehle: mizmo had a great fliers for creative people (about Inkscape, GIMP,...), that would be a good inspiration.
20:48:13 <giallu> but nothing systematic
20:48:15 <suehle> It's certainly something we could look into, but I imagine it would be best on a specific basis, e.g., there's a Ruby conference in Spain, so we'd translate the Ruby one to Spanish, rather than trying to translate all of them to everything.
20:48:16 <bogomil> let's first have the content
20:48:25 <suehle> sesivany, those are exactly the ones I was talking about
20:48:27 <sesivany> it was actually an inspiration for me to think about language ones.
20:48:39 <giallu> looks like a good plan
20:48:54 <suehle> For those who haven't seen the brochures we're talking about:
20:48:56 <suehle> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design/SXSW_Materials#Brochures
20:49:25 <giallu> just take into account some text is much more difficult to translate e.g. jokes
20:50:19 <suehle> giallu, I'm pretty good at writing for translation, so I don't mind playing editor to these with that in mind.
20:50:53 <giallu> suehle, great
20:50:58 <Southern_Gentlem> ?
20:51:06 <sesivany> btw I'm able to have the fliers produced, at least for EMEA.
20:51:13 <suehle> Southern_Gentlem, go on. We're pretty informal in this meeting. :)
20:51:30 <suehle> sesivany, I could have used you before LinuxCon Europe then. :)
20:51:43 <Southern_Gentlem> well if those SXSW were just looked at and updated if need would be alot of help
20:52:03 <suehle> Southern_Gentlem, agreed. I gave myself that action item
20:52:09 <Southern_Gentlem> they are great at event (OLF SELF etc...)
20:52:11 <suehle> I think I finally ran out of the actual printed ones.
20:52:26 <sesivany> suehle: you definitely could have. I'm pretty much a central point for all swag and media production in EMEA now.
20:52:34 * suehle makes a note
20:53:04 <suehle> sesivany, in reality it was an excessively urgent request for someone else, but next time I have an EMEA question, I'm coming to you!
20:53:44 <suehle> I think most of the other things on graphite6's list were brought up by people not here and thus can be pushed to the list or next week, but we've done a lot in this meeting!
20:53:45 <sesivany> suehle: I'll be happy to help you.
20:53:51 <suehle> #topic open floor
20:54:02 <suehle> #action Everybody to keep coming to this meeting. :)
20:54:23 * bogomil wishes all of you good night. Have to drink couple of beers now :)
20:54:29 <Viking-Ice> interesting seeing how this meeting is held
20:54:41 <suehle> Viking-Ice, in what way?
20:54:56 <graphite6> and if you have ideas, questions or rough drafts for review please post them to the mailing list
20:54:57 <Viking-Ice> are you sure you have gone through the advertised meeting topic
20:55:05 <bogomil> One more question - when I will got accepted in FAS marketing group :)
20:55:18 <Viking-Ice> graphite6, I'm here because of that
20:55:24 <BobJensen> bogomil: I'll do that now
20:55:25 * giallu thinks he missed the 'I am number 18' discussion
20:55:26 <suehle> Viking-Ice, I just did your whois, so if there are other topics from the agenda you'd like to discuss, we can do so in the last five minutes.
20:55:33 <suehle> I didn't know your nick, so I didn't recognize that yo uwere here.
20:55:35 <Viking-Ice> 12. Create and maintain our own extensive database of contacts. -johann
20:55:39 <suehle> giallu, that was the first topic, but it'll be in the log.
20:55:41 <bogomil> BobJensen: Thanks :)
20:55:43 <giallu> oki
20:55:49 <fran_m> It was a great experience to be here with you tonight. Thank you.
20:56:00 <sesivany> suehle: I'd love to attend regularly, but it's already my third evening fedora meeting a week...
20:56:01 <Viking-Ice> the wiki instance etc
20:56:10 <suehle> sesivany, I totally understand that.
20:56:30 <graphite6> sesivany: thank you for attending!
20:56:39 <sesivany> fran_m: great to see you at your first meeting! hope you'll stay interested ;)
20:56:49 <graphite6> fran_m: it was great to meet you too!
20:56:52 <fran_m> I'll try
20:57:00 <suehle> Viking-Ice, to that one, we do have a specifically Fedora list of media contacts, which AnnaE helps us maintain.
20:57:02 * jreznik_ will try to come at least close time to release to make sure we're on the track :) but same as sesivany, too many evening/night meetings :(
20:57:23 <suehle> Whether or not you believe it, it's actually a really helpful resource to have PR professionals helping us in that regard.
20:58:10 <BobJensen> bogomil: Done
20:58:28 <Viking-Ice> suehle, it's just time to separate the ties with RH and have the community standing on their own two feets, setup up a trac instance where everybody in the community owners ( like feature owners ) could create a ticket asking for marketing assistance etc
20:58:28 <jreznik_> suehle: agree but also would be great to have these professionals directly on board in community
20:58:37 <suehle> jreznik_, she is.
20:58:43 * suehle points at AnnaE. Right there.
20:58:47 <AnnaE> hey
20:59:47 <suehle> Viking-Ice, we have a marketing trac, but last time we discussed it, there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for using it since we didn't have the traffic to that extent. And well, Red Hat employees are going to continue to be Fedora contributors.
20:59:50 <jreznik_> AnnaE: hey, nice to meet you :)
21:00:39 <suehle> But there's absolutely no reason that feature owners or anyone else in Fedora can't request something from the marketing team.
21:01:08 <Viking-Ice> suehle, nothing wrong with RH being or continuing to be contributors it's RH PR department that's is the problem and what comes out from them
21:01:12 <jreznik_> suehle: I mean - why to have two announcements? why not one, really cool - prepared on wiki - used by both RH and Fedora - it's not critique, just what I'd like to see :)
21:01:20 <suehle> We're at 4, and I like to keep meetings on time, so I'm going to suggest we continue open floor in #fedora-mktg and on list.
21:01:29 <suehle> #endmeeting