19:02:11 <jwb> #startmeeting
19:02:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 25 19:02:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is jwb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:21 <jwb> #meetingname fedora-kernel
19:02:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-kernel'
19:02:28 <jwb> #meetingtopic Fedora Kernel
19:02:32 <jwb> #topic init
19:02:42 <jwb> who's here
19:02:47 * brunowolff is here
19:02:50 * nirik is lurking around.
19:02:51 * jforbes 
19:02:57 <davej> word
19:03:20 <jwb> i thought we'd skip the normal release overview today.  pretty boring and there are a couple other things we can talk about.  anybody have objections?
19:03:40 <davej> nothing much has changed since last time, so why not (other than f16 getting closer to eol)
19:03:57 <jwb> yeah, i'll do some administriva things in the minutes at the end
19:04:11 <jwb> #topic Checkpoint/Restore
19:04:19 <jwb> so this feature was submitted for F19:
19:04:22 <jwb> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Checkpoint_Restore
19:04:50 <jwb> The 3.8 kernel is in pretty good shape for C/R from what I understand
19:05:09 <jwb> but we'd need to turn on namespaces, and the c/r option
19:05:33 <jwb> if we did that, we'd leave USER_NS disabled because it can't be enabled with things like XFS, NFS, etc
19:05:39 <jwb> work is still on-going for that one
19:05:45 <jwb> but afaik, USER_NS isn't required
19:06:03 <jwb> so my thinking is we patch the kconfig so it doesn't depend on EXPERT (because that's a nightmare), and enable in rawhide
19:06:28 <jwb> maybe ask adrianr if he has some decent tests we can add to the test git tree
19:06:42 <jforbes> that's a very good idea
19:06:48 <jwb> thoughts, objections?
19:06:56 <davej> for the most part, I expect people to not even notice we've turned that option on
19:07:03 <nirik> sounds good. It should get enabled as soon as we can to get more testing. ;)
19:07:09 <jwb> nirik, yeah
19:07:12 <davej> unless you care about that feature, it should be fairly benign
19:07:19 <jwb> davej, aside from it being in the release notes, yeah
19:07:36 <davej> right, but it shouldn't impact performance for eg for people who don't care
19:07:43 <jwb> hopefully not, yeah
19:07:56 <jwb> ok, i'll email adrianr about the tests stuff
19:07:57 <jforbes> I do like the idea of getting some test cases though. With new features and active development
19:08:48 <jwb> #action jwb to discuss getting some testcases with adrianr
19:09:04 <jwb> #info plan is to enable soon, without relying on CONFIG_EXPERT (small patch)
19:09:23 <jwb> ok, anything else on this one?
19:09:46 <davej> guess not
19:09:48 <jwb> #topic rawhide kernel debug options
19:10:02 <jwb> jforbes, wanna briefly talk about how this is going, and what the next steps are?
19:10:07 <jforbes> Sure
19:10:32 * nirik hasn't had a chance to try the kernel today.
19:11:07 <jforbes> So today we enabled slub debug.  That gives us lockdep, slub and spinlocks.  I am surprised we got this far, and would be very surprised if we got further
19:11:13 <jwb> nirik, i did.  hard to tell, but it might be marginally slower at video playback.  not bad enough i would say "omg, broken" though
19:11:20 <brunowolff> I am testing it now and might be seeing a yum slowdown. I want to do some more testing tonight when I can reboot my home machines.
19:11:42 <nirik> I cna test in a bit.
19:11:44 <jwb> brunowolff, you changed to testing rawhide kernel + f18 userpsace, right?  to avoid anything else in rawhide?
19:11:51 <nirik> just too much stuff going on to get to the reboot yet today. ;)
19:12:07 <jforbes> That said, we might also see that it is a combination of things which slow it down drastically so who knows
19:12:22 <brunowolff> On the machine I am testing on now. At home I have both rawhide and f18 machines running 3.8 kernels.
19:12:42 <jforbes> I really appreciate the feedback we have been getting on this. Even the "works fine for me" lets me know that people are testing so results will be meaningful
19:13:10 <brunowolff> The reason why I wanted to try it on f18, is that something else was slowing down yum for me on rawhide. That seems to be fixed now, though I don't which update fixed things.
19:13:24 <jwb> #info lockdep + spinlock seemed fine.  today has slub debug and needs feedback
19:13:53 <davej> if slub debug seems slow, booting with slub_debug=- will disable it too.
19:14:47 <nirik> what else after slub was there?
19:14:48 <jforbes> Right, so once we figure out "what" is slowing us down, we need to figure out "why"
19:15:19 <jforbes> nirik: lots of smaller options
19:15:22 <jwb> nirik, lots of stuff, but mostly small
19:15:36 <nirik> cool.
19:15:52 <jforbes> That said, could be a bigger impact than expected from a smaller piece
19:16:06 * nirik nods.
19:16:19 <jforbes> Not willing to rule anything out until it has been tested
19:16:46 <jwb> PROVE_RCU isn't set yet
19:16:51 <jforbes> right
19:17:14 <jwb> or atomic sleep, etc
19:18:29 <jwb> anything else on this one?
19:18:38 <jforbes> not from me
19:18:41 <davej> nope
19:18:43 * nirik read that as atomic sheep. I need some more sleep.
19:18:49 <jwb> #topic coprs
19:19:07 <jwb> so at FUDCon, skvidal gave us access to the coprs stuff
19:19:10 <brunowolff> My yum update here is still running and I think that slub will turn out to be what cause me grief. I'll need to try reproduceable yum changes so I can compare run times though.
19:19:30 <jwb> i thought it would be worth trying it out to see if it made things easier for the rawhide nodebug kernel stuff
19:19:43 <jwb> i think it has some potential, but right now it won't cut it
19:20:00 <nirik> it might be useful for one off builds with a test fix for something.
19:20:02 <nirik> or no?
19:20:05 <jwb> seth fixed the build space issues i think, but we only get one worker (builder) per copr
19:20:13 <jwb> so it's rather slow
19:20:28 <jforbes> slower than koji --scratch?
19:20:36 <jwb> need to try again to be sure
19:20:39 <jwb> but it might be
19:20:49 <jwb> something i plan on poking on today
19:20:49 <jforbes> since my nodebug build from this morning is still going...
19:20:57 <nirik> FYI, we rebuilt all the koji builders so there are fewer of them now, but with more mem/disk
19:21:19 <jwb> ok.  i'll give it a shot.  i'll do the "two separate coprs" trick too, so i get two workers, one for i686 and one for x86_64
19:21:45 <jwb> i do like the ideas behind it though, and it might prove useful in the long run
19:21:52 <jwb> particularly for test kernels like nirik mentioned
19:22:12 <jwb> worth poking at still.  i'll come back with more info on it after i play with it more
19:22:25 <davej> I guess these builds won't work with secure-boot ?
19:22:25 <jwb> #action jwb to try more copr builds for kernels this/next week
19:22:34 <jwb> davej, right.  neither will nodebug via --scratch
19:22:38 <davej> *nod*
19:22:39 <jforbes> davej: no, though neither do our current builds
19:22:44 <nirik> yeah, only official ones.
19:23:05 <jwb> davej, if people import the test cert, they can use them with SB
19:23:27 <jwb> but that has impliciations.  like "you better know what you're downloading"
19:23:35 <jwb> which isn't much different than today without sb, but still
19:24:06 <jwb> ok, that's all i had on coprs
19:24:11 <jwb> #topic open floor
19:24:31 <nirik> I had one item to mention...
19:24:35 <jwb> shoot
19:24:47 <nirik> my iwlwifi woes have gotten worse again. It works for a few hours then craps out
19:24:56 <nirik> bug 863424
19:25:10 <jwb> 802.11n?
19:25:11 <nirik> with the "iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: fail to flush all tx fifo queues" in dmesg
19:25:16 <nirik> yeah.
19:25:22 <jwb> does it happen with g?
19:25:28 * jsmith notes that his battery life seems to be much better lately, for what little it's worth
19:25:30 <nirik> there's a 1 line patch in there that helped in the past, I need to try it again on newer kernels
19:25:39 <davej> istr reading something about disabling power management improving wifi woes on iwlwifi recently
19:25:41 <nirik> I've not tried disabling n.
19:25:43 <davej> I think there's a module param
19:26:02 <jforbes> davej: I Think I saw that in another bug report as well.
19:26:06 <jwb> for some reason i have the idea that iwlwifi firmware is dodgy with n
19:26:13 <nirik> I fear if I disable n and it works I will forget about it and live with crappy speed for a long time. ;)
19:26:21 <jwb> heh, fair
19:26:35 <nirik> but just wanted to mention it if others are hitting it.
19:26:44 <davej> nirik: try the power_save=0 param, and see if that helps any
19:26:55 <davej> oh wait, it's disabled by default.
19:26:57 <davej> thanks Intel.
19:26:57 <nirik> davej: ok, will do
19:27:00 <nirik> humf
19:28:13 <jwb> anything else?
19:28:30 * nirik has nothing else.
19:28:46 <jwb> ok.  i'll do a quick administriva update then
19:28:50 <jwb> #topic administriva
19:29:04 <jwb> #info rawhide on 3.8-rc4.git5.  continuing through 3.8-rcX
19:29:25 <jwb> #info F18/F17 on 3.7.4.  3.7.5 coming soon, with possible intel fixes for hangs
19:29:51 <jwb> #info F16 heading towards EOL.  possibly one final update before EOL.  Please upgrade to f17/f18
19:30:12 <jwb> anyting else before i close it out?
19:30:43 <davej> no tings.
19:30:56 <jwb> sounding all like Mel
19:31:05 <jforbes> nada
19:31:12 <jwb> ok, closing it out.  thanks for coming everyone
19:31:14 <jwb> #endmeeting