04:30:07 <pravins> #startmeeting g11n
04:30:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 20 04:30:07 2016 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:30:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
04:30:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n'
04:30:18 <pravins> #meetingname g11n
04:30:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n'
04:30:19 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
04:30:19 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Meetings/2016-04-20
04:30:19 <tagoh_> hi
04:30:20 <suanand> hi...
04:30:27 <pravins> hi tagoh_ suanand :)
04:30:29 <mfabian> Hi!
04:30:38 <pravins> hi mfabian :)
04:30:40 <puiterwijk> Hello
04:30:45 <pravins> hey puiterwijk :)
04:30:56 <pravins> #chair tagoh_ suanand mfabian puiterwijk
04:30:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: mfabian pravins puiterwijk suanand tagoh_
04:30:59 <ani> hi :)
04:31:06 <pravins> hi ani :)
04:31:08 <pravins> #chair ani
04:31:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: ani mfabian pravins puiterwijk suanand tagoh_
04:31:36 <pravins> lets start while other joins..
04:31:38 <aeng_> hi
04:31:41 <paragan> Hi
04:31:50 <pravins> hi aeng_ paragan :)
04:31:55 <pravins> #chair aeng_ paragan
04:31:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeng_ ani mfabian paragan pravins puiterwijk suanand tagoh_
04:31:58 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
04:32:03 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule
04:32:03 <pravins> #info 2016-05-03 	Beta Release
04:32:03 <pravins> #info 2016-05-24 	Final Freeze (*)
04:32:03 <pravins> #info 2016-06-07 	Fedora 24 Final Release (GA)
04:32:21 <epico> hi
04:32:24 <pravins> Yesterday (19th April) was Beta freeze.
04:32:33 <smaitra> hi
04:32:39 <pravins> hi epico smaitra :)
04:33:09 <pravins> Only 3 milestone remained for F24 release. Beta Release, Final Freeze and Final Release.
04:33:25 <pravins> Lets see what is pending from our (g11n) side
04:33:28 <pravins> #topic F24 Documentation beat
04:33:32 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/62
04:33:47 <pravins> We as a group not doing very good for Release notes presently. Unfortunate missed this for F23 time as well :(
04:33:59 <pravins> Schedule for docs : https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-24/f-24-docs-tasks.html
04:35:15 <pravins> I think few major milestone should come into main release schedule of Fedora.
04:35:28 <pravins> Keeping it totally isolated is not good IMHO.
04:36:09 <pravins> Fedora 23 release notes
04:36:11 <pravins> #link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/Release_Notes/
04:36:41 <pravins> Observe Internationalization section there.
04:36:57 <pravins> Should we have something for Localization also there?
04:37:06 <pravins> I am not sure..
04:37:16 <pravins> hi juhp :)
04:37:19 <pravins> #chair juhp
04:37:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeng_ ani juhp mfabian paragan pravins puiterwijk suanand tagoh_
04:37:26 <juhp> hi - sorry I am late - rebooted
04:38:48 <pravins> hi jibecfed :)
04:38:51 <pravins> #chair jibecfed
04:38:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeng_ ani jibecfed juhp mfabian paragan pravins puiterwijk suanand tagoh_
04:38:58 <juhp> the relnotes should cover the glibc subpackaging
04:39:06 <jibecfed> pravins: hi :$
04:39:55 <pravins> yeah, i18n changes will be covered. Just wondering for other changes/improvement.
04:40:16 <juhp> okay
04:40:17 <pravins> I will go through bugzilla and see if we do have anything from i18n side.
04:40:27 <pravins> but still not clear, do we need anything for Localization?
04:40:47 <pravins> Normally in Localization we dont have much changes.. but may be fully supported languages?
04:40:52 <jibecfed> if langpacks is included into internationalization, i would say there is no need
04:41:07 <pravins> jibecfed: yeah, langpacks will be also covered.
04:41:47 <jibecfed> there is no news about tools or languages, so I don't see particular items to speak about in releases notes
04:41:52 <puiterwijk> I think that depends on the specifics of what is being added, so depends on the entries we have for this release. Just adding something to the relnotes just for having it in there might be suboptimal as it makes the important things less obvious. But I think that goes for everything.
04:42:27 <pravins> puiterwijk: good point !!
04:43:21 <pravins> #action pravins to follow up  with docs for things required from G11N side.
04:43:58 <pravins> #info Unless until some important point is there from Localization side for Release notes, no need to add it.
04:44:18 <pravins> moving to next topic
04:44:23 <pravins> #topic Mismatch in Zanata username and FAS name
04:44:29 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/62
04:44:59 <pravins> I noticed this during awarding badges for Translation sprint. At least 3-4 users have different username in Zanata than FAS.
04:45:10 <pravins> discussed this with aeng_ as well.
04:45:44 <puiterwijk> This is always an interesting problem. Although in this case the Zanata people actually have the "correct" usernames, so maybe they can just overwrite the Zanata usernames from the OpenID identities?
04:45:58 <aeng_> or they have merged with other accounts
04:46:10 <pravins> #undo
04:46:10 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x228bf890>
04:46:15 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/22
04:46:55 <jibecfed> why is it a problem to have different ID ?
04:47:06 <puiterwijk> The problem with merging accounts is that that's pretty much undoable in most software. Now, I don't know about the details of Zanata, but just overwriting the username table might be easier for them. Did that idea ever get discussed?
04:47:53 <pravins> no
04:48:38 <pravins> jibecfed: This will create issue when we start pushing Zanata contribution to Feb BUS and start awarding badges from there.
04:49:19 <pravins> puiterwijk: merging tables will also resolve issue of redundancy.
04:49:41 <pravins> I am just wondering how this will be impacted when Zanata start importing usernames from FAS id?
04:50:08 <puiterwijk> pravins: well, they shouldn't have any redundancy, just disparity? Unless they allow multiple usernames with the same FAS identity
04:50:22 <puiterwijk> (in which case, all bets are off anyway as there's no 1-to-1 mapping anymore)
04:51:14 <Jobava> wait wait, I thought the meeting was going on in fedora-g11n and was wondering where everybody was :p
04:51:52 <pravins> Jobava: I must say.. good morning to you ;)
04:52:12 <ani> Jobava, :)
04:52:33 <noriko> hi
04:52:36 <pravins> puiterwijk: yeah, agree with you.
04:52:45 <puiterwijk> pravins: The problem of merging multiple accounts on their end would be that they won't create a new account if the same person logs in (or at least they shouldn't). In my opinion, since they've caused the disparity, they should fix it on their end by just renaming the usernames. They don't even need the OpenID nickname per se, as they have the username in
04:52:45 <puiterwijk> the identity url
04:53:37 <pravins> aeng_:  mentioned earlier renaming usernames not allowed in Zanata
04:53:47 <pravins> i think its unique id presently.
04:53:56 <aeng_> yes it is
04:54:05 <puiterwijk> username as unique id? That's quite a lot of duplication of data in the database. Interesting
04:54:26 <aeng_> username is always unique
04:54:48 <pravins> agree, since its login id, cant be multiple :)
04:55:07 <aeng_> the only way the username is diff from FAS... if they got multiple FAS account
04:55:48 <pravins> I think to resolve this stuff.
04:55:50 <Jobava> or if they lost their account details and could not reset a password, then went on to create another account
04:56:01 <pravins> 1. We need to identify users with incorrect username in Zanata.
04:56:03 <aeng_> yeah
04:57:21 <pravins> i hope, users impacted should be not more.
04:58:08 <pravins> lets move this thread to mailing list, so new and existing users will understand problem.
04:58:32 <pravins> moving to next topic.
04:58:40 <jibecfed> pravins: please include user impact, I'm not sure there is one, it's technical
04:58:53 <jibecfed> (in you thread)
04:59:10 <puiterwijk> jibecfed: not being able to get badges assigned (automatically)
04:59:24 <pravins> right. It should not be overhead for users.
04:59:42 <pravins> #action List down users with mismatch in Zanata username with FAS
05:00:02 <noriko> pravins, sorry coming late and ask this question...
05:00:08 <puiterwijk> pravins: you know the first word after #action is the assignee, right? :)
05:00:45 <noriko> but why there are users with mismatch in zanata usernames with fas?
05:00:49 <pravins> assigning all to me also does not looks good.
05:01:12 <noriko> what is the problem?
05:01:15 <puiterwijk> noriko: because Zanata didn't force users to use their FAS username and asked for a new one upon registration
05:01:23 <pravins> noriko: since, Zanata presently ask to user register again even after logging with FAS and also ask for username
05:01:28 <puiterwijk> They're fixing that now, but previously they ignored the data FAS OpenId sent them
05:01:30 <pravins> nolski: https://zanata.atlassian.net/browse/ZNTA-855
05:01:57 <pravins> would someone like to take task of identifying users with mismatch in FAS names?
05:02:21 <puiterwijk> pravins: I think that people with access to the zanata database can do this in a single query, so one of those would be best
05:03:28 <pravins> aeng_: can you do this?
05:03:33 <noriko> hum... ok thanks
05:04:07 <pravins> puiterwijk: good pointer, i did not thought for this. :)
05:04:23 <pravins> puiterwijk++
05:05:47 <pravins> i am sure aeng_ can run such query :)
05:05:51 <pravins> assigning to aeng_ for now.
05:05:58 <pravins> #undo
05:05:58 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by pravins at 04:59:42 : List down users with mismatch in Zanata username with FAS
05:06:13 <pravins> #action aeng_ List down users with mismatch in Zanata username with FAS
05:06:27 <pravins> #action pravins to drop email on mailing list regarding this issue and user impact.
05:06:43 <pravins> moving to next topic
05:06:46 <puiterwijk> pravins: do we have any idea when the new Zanata goes live?
05:06:58 <puiterwijk> (with the forced username from FAS, so skipping registration)
05:07:15 <pravins> if i remember correctly in May.
05:07:26 <puiterwijk> Since I think that we should only start the process of merging after this is fixed, given that otherwise we'll need to do it again then
05:07:39 <pravins> agree.
05:07:41 <puiterwijk> Huh?? Didn't get the code written about two months ago??
05:08:01 <juhp> better mention it in the ticket then
05:08:15 <pravins> i filed ticket 3months ago :)
05:08:20 <puiterwijk> I'm pretty sure I've helped one of the Zanata devs through it quite a while ago. Guess I've been mistaken...
05:08:36 <puiterwijk> Anyway, yeah, as juhp says it needs to be added to the ticket.
05:08:49 <pravins> puiterwijk: i think good to add in https://zanata.atlassian.net/browse/ZNTA-855
05:09:00 <pravins> lets move to next topci
05:09:22 <pravins> #topic Fedor 24 test day planning
05:09:26 <juhp> okay I meant the trac ticket but I dunno
05:09:29 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/60
05:09:38 <puiterwijk> juhp: yeah, me too. I'll add it there
05:09:44 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/480
05:09:45 <juhp> thanks
05:10:00 <pravins> We had good test days this time.
05:10:08 <pravins> ani: would you like to update? :)
05:10:13 <ani> yes :)
05:10:40 <ani> Test report for F24 L10n: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2016-03-29_Translation_Test_Day#Fedora_24_Test_Day_Report
05:10:49 <ani> 42 applications tested
05:11:00 <pravins> ohh, huge !!
05:11:05 <ani> 11 languages, 46 bugs filed and 15 users
05:11:18 <ani> *s/users/participants
05:11:35 <ani> these bugs need to be checked again so that few duplicates need to be removed
05:11:58 <ani> thanks to all who have participated and made L10n testing a huge success this time
05:12:00 <pravins> good point. Who is working on triaging ?
05:12:17 <noriko> if no one, I can take.
05:12:26 <ani> noriko, cool.. thanks :)
05:12:30 <pravins> great.
05:12:39 <ani> Next i18n test day:
05:12:50 <ani> Here goes the report: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2016-04-12_I18N_Test_Day#Fedora_24_Test_Day_Report
05:12:54 <ani> 11 application tested
05:12:56 <pravins> #action noriko triaging bugs reported in i18n.
05:13:01 <ani> 6 languages
05:13:04 <ani> 3 bugs filed
05:13:11 <ani> and 10 participants
05:13:18 <ani> Awesome I would say!!
05:13:29 <ani> Applause to all behind the testing :)
05:14:01 <ani> Next release we need to work more on identifying the applications for testing
05:14:35 <jibecfed> ani: and find asian users ;)
05:14:36 <pravins> 👏👏👏👏👏
05:14:59 <Jobava> on the i18n side, Fedora is still largely gettext?
05:15:25 <ani> hehe
05:15:32 <ani> jibecfed, hmm
05:15:42 <pravins> #info Translation test day 42 application tested, 46 bugs filed and 15 users participated.
05:15:45 <pravins> Jobava: yes
05:16:19 <pravins> #info Internationalization test day 6 languages tested, 3 bugs filed and 10 users participated.
05:16:38 <pravins> jibecfed: we need to push Asian ambassadors bit more for more participation.
05:16:55 <ani> we also need to edit the steps under FLTG, so that anyone newcomers can easily contribute - noriko and I were discussing about this the other day
05:16:57 <pravins> We do have some plans in pipeline for F25, so i think it will improve :)
05:17:07 <pravins> ani: +1
05:17:24 <pravins> unfortunately, no one helped for i18n test day badge :(
05:18:18 <pravins> #info No helped on getting badge for i18n test day https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-badges/ticket/446
05:18:29 <ani> also we shall start our preparations a bit in advance (badge creation etc) maybe min one week before test day
05:19:20 <pravins> ani: would you like to work on post for this in communityblog
05:19:35 <ani> hehe.. okies :)
05:19:48 <pravins> may be you can refer https://fedoramagazine.org/globalization-test-days-report-fedora-23/
05:19:58 <ani> no worries :)
05:20:01 <ani> thanks praveenkumar
05:20:07 <pravins> let me add action item for you :)
05:20:07 <ani> sorry pravins :D
05:20:22 <pravins> #action ani to post testing days reports on communityblog.
05:20:29 <pravins> moving to next topic
05:20:35 <pravins> #topic vFAD for Translations
05:20:35 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/5
05:20:35 <ani> also noriko action item is bug triaging for l10n
05:20:49 <ani> i18n we have only 3 bugs and all good
05:20:51 <pravins> yeah, i have added it :)
05:21:43 <pravins> Virtual translation sprint is done, our draft is reviewed and ready to public in community blog.
05:22:00 <pravins> I hope today, it will come to commuinity blog.
05:22:16 <pravins> I have added most of the names in blog and few links for contributors id.
05:22:29 <pravins> Only things i heard is.
05:22:39 <juhp> ani, I think pravins might l10n :)
05:22:42 <juhp> meant
05:23:03 <pravins> 1. We should plan translation sprint bit early, so contributors can get more time.
05:23:04 <ani> :D
05:23:18 <ani> yup agree pravins
05:23:19 <pravins> 2. We only though for Fedora GUI, i think need more plans for Docs and Website stuff.
05:23:32 <pravins> I know jibecfed has remained more active on Website front in last few months :)
05:23:47 <praveenkumar> ani: welcome :P
05:23:52 <puiterwijk> Perhaps also add CLI programs to the test cases?
05:24:02 <ani> praveenkumar, sorry mate :) ;)
05:24:08 <praveenkumar> np
05:24:22 <pravins> puiterwijk: aha, good you mentioned it.
05:24:33 <pravins> We need dedicated group to review priority package list.
05:24:41 <pravins> So need to form this taskforce well before time.
05:24:49 <pravins> May be during planning phase itself.
05:25:09 <noriko> for vFAD, can we plan for QA as well next time??
05:25:11 <pravins> #info There must be taskforce for identifying priority package list in Fedora 25 planning phase itself.
05:25:15 <Jobava> it would be nice if in Zanata itself you had a list of prioritized projects
05:25:26 <jibecfed> pravins: I would rather suggest to clarify processes
05:25:44 <juhp> Jobava, +1
05:26:13 <pravins> #idea Jobava suggested to have list of priority packages in Zanata itself. Some mechanism in Zanata to increase priority.
05:26:25 <pravins> jibecfed: specifically on Website you mean, right?
05:26:27 <Jobava> and a special icon or designation for cli-only projects
05:26:56 <Jobava> cli are not critical to do
05:27:13 <jibecfed> pravins:not really, website is easy, but for a software, it's quite difficult to know if we have the good strings, what is translated and if it's well pushed to repositories
05:27:14 <Jobava> in fact, I find a very limited if any use case for that
05:27:35 <puiterwijk> Jobava: I would tend to disagree with that statement... Especially since there are enough graphical tools that just shows the CLI output for certain actions
05:27:59 <pravins> puiterwijk: Jobava yes, few CLI apps are very very important :)
05:28:18 <puiterwijk> Like PackageKit displaying the raw DNF output (at least the last time I ever used it)
05:28:32 <Jobava> puiterwijk: then a notification: this CLI app is important because developers of X include its output in their GUI
05:28:40 <pravins> jibecfed: do add these comment in vFAD ticket, we will definitely revisit and plan better next time.
05:28:43 <puiterwijk> I will admit I'm biased though.... The only GUI app I ever use is firefox.
05:29:03 <jibecfed> pravins: it's also a question of tools and community process
05:29:45 <pravins> jibecfed: your question sense me regarding good to have "Virtual translation sprint post-mortem" session in flock ;)
05:29:58 <jibecfed> I'll make an explanation in ticket
05:30:09 <pravins> thanks jibecfed :)
05:30:22 <pravins> almost at end of meeting time, lets quickly visit next tickets.
05:30:54 <pravins> #topic Live media with langpacks included
05:30:54 <pravins> https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/17
05:30:57 <pravins> any thing here?
05:31:50 <paragan> no progress yet
05:32:09 <pravins> thanks paragan.
05:32:10 <pravins> #topic FTBFS bugs for Rawhide
05:32:10 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/61
05:32:18 <pravins> unfortunately 3 bugs are still in open state.
05:32:28 <pravins> .bug 1307714
05:32:29 <zodbot> pravins: Bug 1307714 libUnihan: FTBFS in rawhide - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1307714
05:32:37 <pravins> .bug 1308190
05:32:38 <zodbot> pravins: Bug 1308190 tomoe-gtk: FTBFS in rawhide - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1308190
05:32:47 <pravins> .bug  1308194
05:32:48 <zodbot> pravins: Bug 1308194 translate-toolkit: FTBFS in rawhide - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1308194
05:33:45 <pravins> if anyone interested to take over on this, please feel free :)
05:34:02 <pravins> #action pravins to ping/needinfo to owners of these bugs.
05:34:52 <pravins> #topic  Next Meeting Date and Time
05:35:43 <pravins> all here, please suggest :)
05:35:49 <pravins> We agreed to keep it rotational
05:36:23 <puiterwijk> Next week's meeting is at 21:00 UTC if I recall correctly from the meeting, right?
05:36:38 <pravins> puiterwijk: perfect :)
05:36:41 <pravins> 2100 UTC. So 7am BNE and 2am for IST.
05:36:50 <ani> :)
05:37:01 <ani> yup rotational is better +1
05:37:07 <pravins> umm bit early for Tokyo 6am.
05:37:32 <pravins> anyone would like to chair this meeting?
05:38:00 <pravins> #info next meeting 21:00 UTC on 2016/05/04
05:38:47 <pravins> i can definitely help with agenda preparation etc.
05:39:32 <pravins> i hope, we will find someone as a next chair :)
05:39:39 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
05:39:50 <pravins> if nothing there, lets close in 2 minutes.
05:39:53 <jibecfed> i created a new ticket : https://zanata.atlassian.net/browse/ZNTA-1034
05:40:00 <pravins> already took more time today.
05:40:25 <Jobava> source code on fedora websites, where can I find that?
05:40:28 <jibecfed> aeng_: I saw you're following it, I hope we can have help in some way
05:40:44 <puiterwijk> Jobava: https://pagure.io/fedora-websites
05:41:37 <jibecfed> in short: it's hard to maintain quality if we can't monitor contributions, maybe fedbus would help ?
05:41:55 <puiterwijk> jibecfed: I think fedmsg is coming Real Soon Now for Zanata.
05:41:59 <Jobava> thanks puiterwijk
05:42:04 <pravins> Need some improvement in dashboard may be.
05:42:18 <pravins> yes.
05:42:25 <puiterwijk> Though Zanata people might know more about the state, but last I saw our end of the bus is up already
05:42:44 <puiterwijk> (note: I'm part of Fedora Infrastructure. That's the "our" point of view)
05:43:28 <pravins> puiterwijk: yeah, i think aeng_ was planning to provide some test instance for this. Even i not heard much latest.
05:43:43 <pravins> but definitely we will have it by F25.
05:43:54 <pravins> i think lets stop here.
05:44:04 <pravins> and discuss on #fedora-g11n now :)
05:44:17 <pravins> Thanks all for meeting, so many points discussed today.
05:44:22 <pravins> #endmeeting