14:00:10 <bcotton> #startmeeting Council (2022-10-26) 14:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 26 14:00:10 2022 UTC. 14:00:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 14:00:10 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 14:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:00:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2022-10-26)' 14:00:11 <bcotton> #meetingname council 14:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council' 14:00:31 <bcotton> a little laggy, but manageable 14:00:37 <bcotton> #chair dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom bt0 t0xic0der 14:00:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bt0 dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom t0xic0der 14:00:45 <jwf> .hello jflory7 14:00:45 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <jwf@redhat.com> 14:00:56 <bcotton> #topic Introductions, Welcomes 14:00:56 <mattdm> Good morning everyone! 14:02:17 <jwf> Good morning from this side of the planet :) 14:02:19 <jwf> What's good? 14:02:39 <bcotton> not openssl! :-( 14:02:43 <mattdm> NOT OPENSSL 14:02:50 <mattdm> yeah 14:03:07 <VipulSiddharth[m> .hello siddharthvipul1 14:03:08 <jwf> Oh no. I missed that? 14:03:08 <zodbot> VipulSiddharth[m: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com> 14:03:19 * jwf waves to Vipul Siddharth 14:03:29 <VipulSiddharth[m> what's up with openssl o.O 14:03:35 <VipulSiddharth[m> > * <@jflory7:fedora.im> waves to Vipul Siddharth 14:03:35 <VipulSiddharth[m> Good Morning :D 14:03:36 <jwf> Heartbleed 2.0? 14:03:40 <mattdm> quick version: the project has pre-announced that they're releasing a fix on Tuesday for a critical vulnerability 14:03:57 <jwf> VipulSiddharth[m: Good evening to you :) 14:04:31 <bcotton> #topic Today's agenda 14:04:32 <mattdm> they've had a few critical fixes since heartbleed which didn't get the same attention. so it's kind of hard to judge 14:04:35 <mattdm> unfortunate timing 14:04:36 <jwf> mattdm: I foresee some urgent package updates coming through then. It will even land in F35, looks like then 14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Register gitlab.com/fedora/council subgroup and create commarch repo 14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Proposal to move council-private mailing list to Discussion 14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Matthew's “backlog of guilt" 14:04:44 <bcotton> #info Your topics here! 14:04:46 <mattdm> thank you ben for staying on track with the agenda :) 14:04:55 <jwf> ++ 14:05:03 <bcotton> :-) 14:05:04 <bcotton> #topic Register gitlab.com/fedora/council subgroup and create commarch repo 14:05:04 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-416-register-gitlab-com-fedora-council-sub-group-and-create-commarch-repo/43457 14:05:21 <jwf> It's a lot of me on the agenda today :) 14:05:33 <bcotton> so justin, matthew, and I have thoroughly debated the paint on this particular bike shed. it would be good to have others chime in 14:05:43 <jwf> So, for this ticket, I was only looking for approval to register the subgroup on GitLab and make a new repo. 14:05:45 <mattdm> Wait, shouldn't we start with WELCOME JUSTIN 14:06:00 <VipulSiddharth[m> 🎊 14:06:18 <bcotton> this is how we welcome him. it's not very effective 14:06:24 <VipulSiddharth[m> WELCOME JUSTIN ❤️❤️🎉 14:06:27 <mattdm> lol 14:06:40 <jwf> Thanks y'all 😄 14:07:01 <jwf> bcotton: It's not my first rodeo on the Council. Just the first time wearing a red hat here :) 14:07:27 <mattdm> and as FCAIC :) 14:07:58 <mattdm> My opinion on the paint: I think creating that sub-group is fine, and having a place for FCAIC stuff under it likewise, but I (lightly) prefer calling that "fcaic" rather than introducing "commarch" or "community-architecture". 14:09:11 <bcotton> agreed, but i'll note that if justin feels strongly about the name, we're not stuck with it forever anyway 14:09:30 <jwf> While it's not a hill that I was firmly rooted in to start, my hope was to illuminate the kind of work that the FCAIC does instead of illuminating the FCAIC role, if this makes any sense. But yeah, it is also easy to change later too. 14:09:32 <mattdm> Pretty sure any names we introduce into Fedora stay here forever. (Looks at "CLA +1"...) 14:09:45 * bcotton closes eyes 14:10:05 <bcotton> so, as a matter of procedure, i'm not convinced this needs a formal vote 14:10:12 <jwf> But if we are generally okay with registering the Council name space, then I think there is a clear path forward 14:10:12 <bcotton> does anyone want to argue that we should, in fact, vote on this? 14:10:51 <jwf> I'll open a ticket with Infra/CPE to get it handled and also have us added to a permissioned group to manage repositories within that subgroup 14:11:29 <mattdm> yeah +1 to no vote :) 14:11:30 <bcotton> aiui, it should be able to use the existing `council` group via SSO 14:12:18 <bcotton> proposed #agreed We're in favor of creating the name space and jflory7 can name his FCAIC repo as he sees fit 14:12:41 <jwf> +1 14:12:57 <mattdm> yes 14:13:21 <mattdm> I am, however, not voting 14:13:31 <bcotton> #agreed We're in favor of creating the name space and jflory7 can name his FCAIC repo as he sees fit 14:13:50 <bcotton> #action jflory7 to file ticket to create council name space in gitlab 14:13:54 <bcotton> anything else on this one? 14:15:05 <bcotton> seems like a no 14:15:06 <bcotton> #topic Proposal to move council-private mailing list to Discussion 14:15:28 <bcotton> so this was proposed on the list, but it's not sensitive itself, just meta, and the existence of the list is not a secret 14:16:24 <bcotton> i don't think anyone opined except me, and i'm not sure if my input was pro- or con-, so others please have opinions! 14:16:41 <bcotton> we already know your opinion, matthew ;-) 14:17:20 <mattdm> So, the big thing to be aware of here is: we can't hide things from admins 14:17:33 <mattdm> And we have some not-on-council admins and probably will have more with the Ask merge 14:18:03 <mattdm> And actually, I think maybe that goes for moderators too. Although we could change all moderators to be category mods which would get around that 14:18:23 <jwf> mattdm: This was my next question 14:19:23 <mattdm> And we don't archive the mailing list -- we can set things to delete in Discourse, but there is "deleted" and _actually deleted indelibly_, and I'm not actually sure if we can automate the latter. 14:20:04 <jwf> Do we want indelibly deleted? 14:20:38 <jwf> To be fair, I didn't know moderators could also view secret categories. But I also thought it was possible to make a category that only a specific group can see, exception of site admins as well 14:21:50 <bcotton> We want indelibly deleted to preserve confidentiality, imo 14:22:33 <bcotton> That's why we don't archive the mailing list 14:22:49 <mattdm> I think this was at Justin's request, actually :) 14:23:55 <jwf> I feel like we might have more conditions that would make this migration tricky. From my limited perspective, Council private discussions aren't something so secretive or confidential that we have to bury them ten feet underground, so I don't see as much of an issue with the challenges that come with Discourse. But my perspective is much more time-limited than the rest of y'all 14:25:01 <mattdm> I definitely would like to keep hhlp and ankursinha as admins. They've done a lot on Ask 14:25:02 <jwf> I guess I'm +0 at this point. I have feelings about it but not so passionate feelings that would make me want to drive this migration either :) 14:26:22 <mattdm> Let's revisit when we get to the point of needing to shut down mailing lists forever :) 14:26:36 <jwf> mattdm: +1 14:27:35 <bcotton> #info The proposal to move the council-private list to Discussion is tabled indefinitely 14:27:46 <bcotton> #topic Matthew's “backlog of guilt” 14:27:57 <bcotton> #info Let the record reflect that this is Matthew's term for it :-) 14:28:10 <bcotton> #info mattdm to create a historical documents section for old Council docs, Board decisions, etc 14:28:10 <bcotton> #info mattdm to post strategic plan discussion threads 14:28:22 <mattdm> Oh! 14:28:25 <mattdm> I DID ONE OF THESE 14:28:34 <bcotton> 🎉 14:28:44 <mattdm> hold on a second... 14:28:56 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/148 14:29:12 <mattdm> someone mash that merge button! 14:29:35 * bcotton rebases 14:29:49 * bcotton merges 14:30:06 <mattdm> thanks ben! 14:30:34 <mattdm> The second thing I have on my calendar for Friday 14:30:38 <jwf> 🙌🏻 14:31:21 <bcotton> #action mattdm to post strategic plan discussion threads 14:32:06 <mattdm> should we scan through open tickets and see which ones we can #action Justin W. Flory (he/him) ? 14:32:14 <jwf> Curious, because I missed a lot of the strategy conversations… 14:32:18 <bcotton> #topic Open tickets 14:32:18 <jwf> What's coming with those threads? 14:32:27 <bcotton> #undo 14:32:27 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7ffba50a6630> 14:32:55 <mattdm> Good question Justin! :) 14:33:13 <jwf> mattdm: I don't mind this next :) 14:33:21 <mattdm> We haven't been able to have an in-person council meeting to work on the strategy 14:33:31 <mattdm> Trying to do it async or via virtual meetings wasn't really working 14:33:50 <mattdm> So Marie, Ben, and I got together to start a proposal based on the feedback we've gotten from earlier discussion 14:34:07 <mattdm> this is what I presented at Nest, and rather than retyping that I'm going to find the youtube link real quick... 14:34:40 <mattdm> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5He0Ckh-_-0 14:35:16 <mattdm> I would find the timestamp, but it's basically halfway in 14:35:21 <jwf> Cool, then there's some homework for me. 14:35:29 <mattdm> Anyway, that is basically the very right-most side of our logic model 14:35:39 <mattdm> and the next steps are filling out to the left 14:35:48 <jwf> The threads are going to be ongoing discussion to shape the strategy? Or feedback on what is already put together? 14:36:19 <jwf> I guess I am wondering what the expectations are for participation in strategy topics from here on. 14:36:23 <mattdm> I feel pretty good about what we have. But part of the logic model process is revalidating that as we go so there is room for both 14:36:35 <mattdm> I guess I should start with a post about that 14:36:51 <bcotton> oh no! someone gave the mouse a cookie 14:37:20 <mattdm> "And that's why I now have a windmill on my roof." 14:38:01 <mattdm> okay, tickets? 14:38:39 <bcotton> #topic Open ticket 14:38:45 <mattdm> s 14:38:48 <bcotton> s 14:38:52 <bcotton> not going to bother #undo-ing that. we live it with 14:38:53 <mattdm> jinx 14:39:05 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issues?status=Open&order_key=last_updated&order=asc 14:39:19 <bcotton> speaking of backlog of guilt.... 14:39:27 * bcotton looks at #388 14:39:57 <jwf> #412 sounds interesting 14:40:23 <mattdm> I feel like #388 could be an excellent one for #action jflory7 14:40:47 <mattdm> because as a new Red Hatter he's exactly in the thick of that maelstrom 14:41:01 <mattdm> s/maelstrom/mælstrom/ 14:41:24 <mattdm> I am happy to opine but not write :) 14:41:47 * mattdm notes that #198 is still on my backlog of shame 14:41:54 <bcotton> i would be glad to unlick that particular cookie 14:42:26 <jwf> mattdm: This one seems like something I could get an initial draft together for. 14:42:41 <jwf> Do we think this would exist as a Docs page in docs.fp.o/project/? 14:42:57 <jwf> Or what does a deliverable look like here? 14:43:45 <mattdm> Yes, I think exactly that. 14:44:27 <mattdm> there is this: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/fedora-and-red-hat-enterprise-linux/ 14:44:27 <jwf> Cool. I could take an action here. Although it would be nice to have an approximate deadline to help keep me accountable 14:44:43 <mattdm> but that is about the products more than the project and company 14:45:14 <bcotton> i mean, it's sat for 7 months already, so it's not....pressing 14:45:24 <mattdm> (random note: I was at a RH Executive Briefing on Monday, and the customer made a big distinction between Project and Product, but very much not the one that RH keeps trying to make.) 14:45:48 <mattdm> "Open Source Projects are Programs, Actually" — bcotton_ 14:46:03 <bcotton> sounds like an insightful person 14:46:20 <jwf> Also noting I will be traveling in Raleigh next week for ATO and haven't gotten my personal community todo list together yet. 14:46:46 <mattdm> Yeah, I don't want to give you a deadline on this, but something to throw into the mix? 14:46:55 <jwf> jwf: (Which, will be a little nostalgic since I met bcotton there for the first time five years ago) 14:47:01 <mattdm> awwww 14:47:17 <jwf> mattdm: Let's say end of November for a first draft. The deadline is more for me. :) 14:47:22 <mattdm> okay! 14:47:35 <jwf> When is the last November Council meeting date? 14:47:36 <jwf> I pick that date 14:47:51 <bcotton> um, probably 2 weeks from now 14:48:11 <bcotton> given the next one would be the day before the US Thanksgiving holiday, if i'm looking at the calendar correctly 14:48:20 <jwf> Oh. Right. 14:48:25 <bcotton> yes, that's the case 14:48:29 <jwf> Then after U.S. Thanksgiving. Let's do that :P 14:49:06 <mattdm> Next... I can give a brief update on #391 and #392. Justin, maybe you've heard more from Marie, but as I understand it, she's working with a consultant on a draft for these things and will continue that as part of her new role, and there should be an update soon... ish. 14:49:32 <jwf> mattdm: I'm meeting Paula, the consultant, today! 14:49:41 <mattdm> cool! 14:50:08 <mattdm> Justin, do you want to administratively take ownership of these two? Or check with Marie on what she wants to do? 14:50:26 <jwf> mattdm: Let me ask Marie first what she prefers and check back in. 14:50:40 <mattdm> sounds good 14:51:10 <jwf> #action jwf Follow up with riecatnor on moving forward with Council CoC-related tickets 14:53:43 <bcotton> okay, we're almost out of time, so 14:53:54 <bcotton> #topic Next meeting 14:53:54 <bcotton> #info The next regular business meeting is Wednesday 9 November 14:54:07 <bcotton> #info We do not have video meeting guests scheduled currently 14:54:11 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Video_Meetings 14:54:17 <bcotton> #topic Do we have anything to announce? 14:54:17 <bcotton> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities 14:54:26 <jwf> #action jwf Put together a draft for the Fedora/Red Hat relationship (#388) and share back to Council after U.S. Thanksgiving 14:54:33 <bcotton> #info F37 Release Party registration is open: https://fedoramagazine.org/youre-invited-to-the-fedora-linux-37-release-party/ 14:54:33 <bcotton> anything that we haven't announced? 14:54:50 <mattdm> I suggest we do a Justin W. Flory (he/him) feature for the meeting. 14:54:51 <mattdm> video meeting. 14:55:01 <mattdm> Like a little interview for people who don't know him. 14:55:10 <jwf> Different from the release party one? 14:55:22 <jwf> I should hire a speech writer 😄 14:55:30 <bcotton> twice as long and more interactive than the release party one :-) 14:55:32 * mattdm needs to register for the release party :) 14:55:38 <mattdm> What is the format of the release party one? 14:56:06 <jwf> mattdm: That's a good question. I haven't figured it out yet 😄 14:56:12 <jwf> But I think it would be different audiences 14:56:30 <jwf> I'll probably make the RelParty more broad and the Council one more contributor-focused 14:56:34 <mattdm> I imagine this one as me interviewing you. Possibly with pithy interjections from Ben and others 14:56:50 <mattdm> Like, a softball interview, to be clear :) 14:57:13 <jwf> Register for the release party today and we'll call it a done deal 😁 14:57:22 <mattdm> (oh: metaphor for non-US folks -- that means "easy to hit slow pitches" in a friendly format) 14:57:27 <bcotton> softball questions from matthew, but i make no promises :-) 14:57:32 <mattdm> exactly! 14:57:36 <mattdm> and... registered! 14:57:57 <jwf> mattdm: Then I guess I'm scheduled 😆 14:58:27 <jwf> Sorry, AFK for a couple minutes 14:59:08 <bcotton> alrighty, anything else in the final minute? 14:59:38 <mattdm> I don't htink so. Thank you ben! 14:59:58 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone! 15:00:01 <bcotton> #endmeeting