18:00:30 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server 18:00:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 6 18:00:30 2023 UTC. 18:00:30 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 18:00:30 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 18:00:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server' 18:00:43 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call 18:00:52 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today! 18:01:06 <pboy> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up 18:01:20 <pboy> We have to coninue with topics we skipped last meeting. 18:01:26 <eseyman> humm... I was in #fedora-meeting-1 wondering where everybody was 18:01:30 <eseyman> hi, folks! 18:01:31 <pboy> I’ll post the agenda in 2 minutes. 18:01:48 <jdubby> .hello2 18:01:50 <zodbot> jdubby: Sorry, but user 'jdubby' does not exist 18:01:56 <eseyman> .hello2 18:01:57 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr> 18:02:06 <pboy> Hi eseyman! Yes, sometimes quick to get the wrong cxhannel 18:02:43 <jdubby> .hello2 18:02:44 <zodbot> jdubby: Sorry, but user 'jdubby' does not exist 18:04:58 <pboy> Hi John: zodbod seems to be a bit disoriented today. 18:06:18 <pboy> We are obviously „thin provisioned“ today. But we met the quorum and can start. 18:06:30 <pboy> #topic Agenda 18:06:42 <pboy> #info Follow up actions 18:06:42 <pboy> #info Fedora Server release and quality criteria 18:06:42 <pboy> #info Work program and goals for F40 18:06:42 <pboy> #info Test planning for F40 18:06:42 <pboy> #info Open floor 18:06:53 <pboy> Any topic to add? 18:07:09 <eseyman> I'm good 18:07:13 <pboy> OK, let's go on 18:07:27 <pboy> topic 1. Follow up actions and announcements 18:07:33 <pboy> #topic 1. Follow up actions and announcements 18:07:42 <pboy> A still running gag is: 18:07:53 <pboy> #action pboy will write a info about changing the timeout value and nirik will review – still work in progress 18:08:04 <pboy> And we have a new one, I guess ongoing, too? 18:08:16 * pboy Mowest will take care of discussed modifications of the Server download page. 18:08:37 <pboy> Mowest is unable to attend today, so 18:08:46 <pboy> #action Mowest will take care of discussed modifications of the Server download page. 18:08:57 <pboy> For all to know: 18:09:09 <pboy> Next big OSS meeting: FOSDEM, 3 & 4 February 2014 Brussels, Belgium, Europe 18:09:20 <pboy> Fedora will be present with a stand and is planing some actions. 18:09:37 <pboy> Unfortunately, the deadline for submitting proposals for contributions was very short and has passed. 18:09:46 <pboy> Would be nice if we could contribute to the Fedora stand and presentation and hopefully some of us can take the opportunity to meet. 18:09:58 <pboy> And by the way: France and Germany are close by and also a worthwhile destination for a visit before or after. 18:10:07 <pboy> Any thjoughts? 18:11:27 <eseyman> it's complicated 18:12:09 <pboy> Yeah, probably for anyone to think about it. 18:12:18 <pboy> I'll attend in any case. 18:12:51 <eseyman> I'll attend if I can convince my SO 18:13:04 <pboy> What is SO? 18:13:25 <eseyman> SO == Significant Other 18:13:42 <pboy> Oh yeah, fortunately I could manage that already :-) 18:14:00 <pboy> Well, Last one here: Next meeting? 18:14:10 <pboy> roposal: xskip Dec 20 and Jan 3 and start with Jan 17 18:14:23 <pboy> into new year 18:14:32 <eseyman> sounds like a good call 18:15:21 <pboy> OK I guess jdubby is still struggeling with zodbot, but would agree, too. 18:15:34 <pboy> #agreed Next meeting will be held January 17, 2024 18:15:54 <pboy> topic 2. Fedora Server release and quality criteria 18:16:00 <pboy> #topic 2. Fedora Server release and quality criteria 18:16:17 <pboy> I must practise copy&paste, obviously 18:16:34 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/63 18:16:43 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/61 18:17:02 <pboy> One special topic here: naming of distribution media, the "DVD topic" 18:17:16 <pboy> We agreed upon std instead, but that has a unfortunate connotation as well, as we detected later. 18:17:55 <pboy> new idea: a) maybe full or fullinst (like netinst) or full and just net (and kvm) 18:18:06 <pboy> b) same naming convemtion for full install and vm install 18:18:29 <pboy> c) one checksum file for all variants (currently 2 separate, but the same name) 18:19:32 <pboy> Any thoughts? 18:21:21 <eseyman> not a lot, tbh 18:22:32 <pboy> Yeah, and we need native speakers, I think. Last time, if I remember, Nirik came up with the bad connotational meaning 18:22:55 <pboy> OK, we discuss that on server list. 18:23:46 <pboy> jwhimpel are you with us? 18:23:50 <jwhimpel> yes 18:23:58 <pboy> Thanks! 18:24:30 <pboy> The other think is to review and to extend our quality and release criteria. 18:25:13 <pboy> I suppose, we need someone of us who takes on the organisation and to encourage the discussion. 18:25:42 <pboy> Sgallagh madew some suggestion a long time ago. 18:26:39 <pboy> For sure, he will work with us, but we need a "discussion lead". 18:27:46 <pboy> I see, no idea here. 18:28:26 <pboy> Does anyone know, what we have to do to extend those criteria? 18:29:04 <jwhimpel> no idea 18:29:26 <pboy> OK. me neither 18:29:55 <eseyman> same 18:30:06 <pboy> So, I'll contact Stephen to help us out. 18:30:46 <pboy> #topic 3. Work program and goals for F40 18:30:59 <pboy> #topic 3. Work program and goals for F40 18:31:14 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/102 18:31:14 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/101 18:31:37 <pboy> Problem, we did not finish our goal for F39 yet. 18:32:40 <pboy> Nevertheless, I would like to start with another one, e.g. the installation in virtual environments 18:33:14 <pboy> Hopefully, we can provide new installation media so will produce something new. 18:33:38 <eseyman> 'Fedora Server Edition on SBC' can by recycled for F41 18:34:02 <pboy> eseyman, good idea! 18:34:15 <pboy> specifically, the installation issues are not resolved yet. 18:35:42 <pboy> I see no objections about 'installation in virtual environments' 18:36:09 <pboy> But I think, we should this put on mailing list as well. 18:36:27 <pboy> So let's switch here. 18:36:36 <pboy> #topic 4. Test planning for F40 18:36:57 <pboy> We should discuss and organize 2 topics, I think 18:36:57 <pboy> a) What do we want to manually test? I suppose, at least a regular "smoke test" of the mist important features 18:36:57 <pboy> b) What are the potentially critical changes that we should specifically monitor and test? 18:37:13 <jwhimpel> I don't know if this is off topic now, but it appears anaconda changes (first boot) and Unified Kernel Support may both affect us. We need to test often and early. 18:37:24 <eseyman> agreed 18:37:49 <pboy> jwhimpel, it is not off topic. but paet of b) 18:37:58 <pboy> And there are others: 18:38:06 <pboy> announced change in Anaconda, allthough not yet for F40 18:38:06 <pboy> UKI image 18:38:06 <pboy> change in cron 18:38:37 <pboy> And we will get a new Anaconda install GUI, not in 40 I gues, but later. 18:39:03 <pboy> We should start to cooperate early. We want to update the installationmenues anyway. 18:39:21 <jwhimpel> We probably need to test new install as well as upgrade. Also test ARM as well as Intel/AMD. 18:39:43 <pboy> jwhimpel agreed 18:40:34 <pboy> I'm trying to set up virtualisation on my m1 Mac so i can at least limited the aarch64 distrib 18:40:59 <jwhimpel> Should we test DVD (or other media) install along with netinstall? 18:41:13 <pboy> I think, yes. 18:41:26 <pboy> I think, one of us should take the organisation of this in his hand. 18:41:26 <pboy> Someone should watch the devel list, bring potentially disruptive changes to our attention (mailing list) and collect them in a ticket. 18:41:39 <jwhimpel> I don't have any ARM architecture at the moment, but I hope to procure a Pi5 soon. 18:42:15 <jwhimpel> We also need to monitor the workstation meeting logs as they seem inclined lately to assume how changes will affect server. 18:42:26 <pboy> Yeah, but as far as I know, the Pi5 has the same boot methods as Pi4. 18:42:44 <pboy> So you can 't test dvd and netinst 18:43:18 <pboy> On a new Mac that would be possible, at least virtually 18:43:43 <jwhimpel> I think I can test ARM stuff if I don't try to use LVM. But I could be very wrong. 18:45:10 <pboy> The problem is, that Pi5 / aarch64 SBCs dont have a BIOS or a "system ready" firmware. As far as I know. 18:45:46 <pboy> So it will not boot our standard installation media / isos 18:47:15 <eseyman> do people actually do this? I suspect that vast majority of Pi5 users are going to burn Fedora to an SD card and plug it in 18:48:22 <jwhimpel> esseyman: I agree 18:48:38 <pboy> eseyman Yes I think so, because it is the only way, currently. There is a kind of system ready stand in but unsupported in Fedora. 18:49:31 <pboy> For information: The current installation problem with Pi and other SBCs has not yet been resolved. 18:49:46 <pboy> It is probably an LVM problem. (with lvscan) 18:49:59 <pboy> I am working on it with the ARM sig and releng 18:50:35 <eseyman> I would really like the testing to focus on stuff that Fedora users will actually use 18:50:58 <pboy> eseyman agreed! 18:51:05 <jwhimpel> That is why I volunteered to test NOT using lvm. Just raw partitions. 18:52:00 <pboy> jwhimpel currently LVM is our default method for "real" Fedora Servers. Do you propose to change that? 18:52:36 <jwhimpel> Not necessarily. Just wanted to offer a way to use Fedora Server until the issue is resolved. 18:52:54 <pboy> OK. yeah. 18:53:31 <pboy> I think it will be resolved soon via update (I'm an optimistical guy) 18:53:58 <pboy> Well, let's continue on mailing list and switch 18:54:01 <jwhimpel> I also seem to remember an article on phoronix that btrfs has some patches that make it perform better under typical server loads. 18:54:14 <pboy> #topic 5. Open Floor 18:54:51 <pboy> What do you think about setting up one of our next meetings as a video meeting? 18:55:02 <pboy> instead of IRC 18:55:13 <jwhimpel> I was able to get ansible to deploy wildfly with ssl certs. Then use maven to deploy a simple quickstart app. 18:55:31 <pboy> jwhimpel ++1 18:55:36 <vazsingh> pboy That would be so much better for those of us observing! 18:55:39 <eseyman> I spent the day at the Open Source Experience event in Paris 18:55:46 <jwhimpel> pboy: Video meetup sounds good to me. 18:56:09 <eseyman> my attempts to convince the Centreon guys to add Fedora Server as a supported platform was a bust 18:56:27 <pboy> eseyman what a pitty 18:56:45 <eseyman> if it's one-time-only, a video meeting sounds good 18:57:27 <pboy> eseyman, yes, one time at least at the moment. And a test how it works for us. 18:57:51 <pboy> I'll try it either for our January meeting of the firstr February. 18:58:46 <pboy> jwhimnpel regarding Wildfly, we should discuss that on our next meeting! 19:00:00 <pboy> OK, time is up now. 19:00:11 <jwhimpel> pboy: I'll try to be prepared. 19:00:36 <pboy> I wish a good christmas and a happy new year.! 19:00:54 <eseyman> same here, see you in 2024, folks! 19:01:09 <pboy> And see you in January in new freshness and energy 19:01:30 <pboy> #endmeeting