18:31:01 <bcotton> #startmeeting docs 18:31:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 30 18:31:01 2022 UTC. 18:31:01 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 18:31:01 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 18:31:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:31:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs' 18:31:01 <bcotton> #topic Roll call 18:31:02 <shaunm[m]> .hello shaunm 18:31:02 <copperi[m]> .hello copperi 18:31:02 <zodbot> shaunm[m]: shaunm 'Shaun McCance' <shaunm@gnome.org> 18:31:05 <zodbot> copperi[m]: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com> 18:31:26 <bcotton> #chair shaunm 18:31:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton shaunm 18:32:09 <darknao> .hi 18:32:10 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja> 18:34:10 <bcotton> hello, everyone! 18:34:26 <shaunm[m]> welcome back ben! 18:34:36 <bcotton> i survived a trip with my kids, even though my phone did not! 18:35:11 <bcotton> pro tip: your phone may not be as waterproof as advertised. don't take underwater video for the fun of it 18:35:12 <bcotton> #topic Agenda... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/3a595b2ff7695d07ca801dd33a36e820b917061d) 18:35:18 <mroche> .hello mroche 18:35:19 <zodbot> mroche: mroche 'Michael Rochefort' <mike@michaelrochefort.com> 18:35:31 <bcotton> #topic Announcements 18:35:31 <bcotton> #info F36 Beta was released yesterday. Final release is targeted for 19 April 18:35:31 <bcotton> #info We're receiving applicants for our Outreachy proposal. Please welcome them and help them get settled in 18:35:33 <pboy> .hello2 18:35:34 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de> 18:35:37 <bcotton> related to this, i need to action myself to 18:36:03 <bcotton> #action bcotton to start a Discussion thread welcoming Outreachy applicants and providing some additional information for them 18:36:31 <bcotton> #info bcotton has proposed retiring the Docs group in Telegram. Please weigh in with your opinions 18:36:32 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/time-to-retire-the-docs-telegram-group/37894 18:36:41 <bcotton> #info We're using the docs-fp-o repo to track meta-work 18:36:41 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues 18:36:48 <bcotton> anything announcement-like that i missed? 18:37:40 <bcotton> guess not! 18:37:41 <bcotton> #topic Previous action items 18:37:41 <bcotton> #info bcotton was to propose splitting user and WG docs to IoT 18:37:41 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-iot/iot-docs/issue/83 18:38:20 <bcotton> So I talked to the IoT WG today and we have a plan in place. They're in the process of migrating their work to GitHub so I'll work on the split in parallel there and we can make the switch once it's done 18:38:40 <bcotton> but mostly they're very happy to have that happen and even more happy that I volunteered to do the heavy lifting for them :-) 18:38:47 <bcotton> #info bcotton was to comment on #65 and #22 18:38:47 <bcotton> #info Fixes in place for both 18:39:35 <bcotton> I didn't go back and make changes for end-of-life releases on these, but the current releases as well as the rawhide page now say how to submit content and list the release dates (except for rawhide, where it's commented out because rawhide does not have releases) 18:39:49 <bcotton> #info darknao was to find where the Modularity redirection is set up, and ask for removal 18:40:41 <bcotton> darknao: have an update on this? 18:41:16 <darknao> I've found it, and fixed it 18:41:57 <pbokoc> oops. Hello. 18:41:58 <darknao> it's not removed, I just changed the redirection to point to the right url 18:42:01 <bcotton> #info darknao found it and fixed it 18:42:03 <bcotton> hooray! 18:42:35 <bcotton> #info it's not removed, just changed the redirection to point to the right url 18:43:04 <bcotton> that's all for the previous action items (except for two that seemed to merit their own #topic), so... 18:43:15 <bcotton> #topic GitLab followup 18:43:15 <bcotton> #info darknao was to provide updates on permissions setup for GitLab space 18:43:33 <darknao> for futur references, these redirects are all located in this repo: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/fedora-docs-web/tree/redirects 18:44:04 <darknao> about gitlab, i've opened an infra ticket (https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/10604) 18:46:10 <bcotton> looking at the ticket, i agree that self-managing seems like the easier solution at this point 18:46:14 <bcotton> anyone disagree? 18:49:37 <bcotton> i guess not. so i suppose the next step is to figure out a plan for moving at least some things there. the nice thing about our architecture is that we can move piece by piece :-) 18:50:02 <bcotton> darknao: want to own that? :-) 18:50:33 <darknao> I can 18:50:56 <darknao> we can either start big with the docs-fp-o project right away 18:51:35 <darknao> or just take a few docs sub project and move them one by one 18:52:14 <bcotton> my preference would be to leave docs-fp-o in place until after the Outreachy application period ends so we don't add more confusion 18:52:32 <bcotton> but this might be a good topic for a Discussion thread and we can re-visit next week? 18:52:57 <darknao> agreed 18:53:19 <pbokoc> Also release note contributions - I'd like to keep at least the relnotes repo on pagure until final release 18:53:28 <darknao> note that we don't have the permissions set up yet, but hopefully, we will next week 18:53:34 <bcotton> #action darknao to start discussion of GitLab migration plan for follow-up next week 18:54:10 <bcotton> #info bcotton prefers to keep docs-fp-o on Pagure until Outreachy application period ends 18:54:10 <bcotton> #info pbokoc wants to keep release notes repo on Pagure until after the F36 final release 18:54:38 <bcotton> anything else on GitLab for now? 18:55:41 <bcotton> #topic Content plan Proof of Concept 18:55:41 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/proposal-of-an-umbrella-plan-for-content/37161/4 18:55:41 <bcotton> #info pboy was to start a PoC of the new content plan with the Installation Guide 18:55:56 <pboy> Just published a plan in a new thread. A (little) late unfortunately, sorrry, had to work in between as a "server system firefighter". 18:56:32 <bcotton> #info pboy published a plan in a new thread 18:56:33 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/a-proof-of-concept-poc-plan-for-new-content-proposal/37941 18:57:08 <bcotton> i know the trouble of server fires all too well :-) 18:57:09 <bcotton> anything you want to highlight now, or should we all go read after the meeting? 18:57:51 <pboy> I think a short reading break? I made it as short as possible. 18:58:10 * bcotton reads 19:00:06 <bcotton> i really like this plan. the only thing i'm not sure about is how we should publish this 19:00:07 <bcotton> by which i mean we'd want to have it in parallel with the existing docs while its put in place, discussed, and improved 19:00:39 <pboy> Can we use staging? 19:00:44 <bcotton> i'm not sure if using the staging server is the right approach or to put it in a different URL 19:01:23 <pboy> Well, maybe we copy current stg into stg2? 19:01:47 <bcotton> great minds :-) 19:01:48 <bcotton> i think staging would work. then we could have it use a separate branch of the source repo. that seems like the cleanest approach 19:01:49 <bcotton> but i'm not sure if i'm overlooking something that will cause a problem 19:03:17 <pboy> Maybe darknao knows? Or pbokoc? 19:03:50 <darknao> agree with not using stg. If we use it for the home page design change from the outreachy project, then we cannot use it anymore for anything else for several months 19:04:35 <bcotton> how hard would it be to have a stage^2? 19:04:38 <darknao> i'm more in favor of running a seperate dev instance somewhere 19:04:54 <darknao> but we may have to limit the size of it 19:05:46 <pboy> On the other hand: the proposed changes are small. Outreachy may make bigger changes. 19:05:54 <darknao> the current instance take a lot of spaces due to all the languages, it'll be difficult to add more to it as we are kind of space constrained already 19:06:19 <bcotton> maybe we should spin up separate instances for both and leave the translations out of the process? 19:07:28 <darknao> if we deploy only the en_us site, it should be ok 19:08:02 <pboy> Hm, I think the proposed content changes are so sublte, the will not break anything? Most of the content remains as is. 19:08:07 <bcotton> okay 19:08:40 <darknao> pboy: yeah I was more thinking about the first part of your content plan 19:09:09 <darknao> to me, this seems to be exactly on what outreachy applicants will work on 19:09:15 <bcotton> one option would be to have an index-new.html or something along those lines that we edit on until we're happy 19:09:57 <bcotton> i agree darknao , i think focusing on the second half of the PoC might be best for now 19:10:24 <bcotton> the first half can either be done in concert with the outreachy intern or will be made obsolete by what they come up with 19:11:35 <darknao> for the outreachy part, this is only one static html page in the end, it may be easier to use gitlab pages to host that one for previewing, what do you think? 19:12:07 <pboy> That means that in detail? I think we need a new "box" anywhere? Or do we simply replace "Old docs"? We realy don't want that anymore? 19:13:29 <bcotton> pboy: to me, it means make the re-configured doc(s) but have it not be directly available from the front page right away. we can then share the new and old with the community and see what they think 19:13:38 <bcotton> also, we'd want to get at least most of the docs reconfigured before we cut over anyway 19:14:19 <pboy> OK for me. 19:14:50 <pboy> I just need a place to upload one ore more adocs. (and view them ofcourse) 19:15:13 <bcotton> i'll put a summary of my thoughts in the thread after the meeting so we have a chance to hear from people who couldn't attend the meeting 19:15:28 <bcotton> anything else on this topic for now? 19:15:41 <darknao> in that case, using a separate adoc file in the same homepage repo seems far easier in the end 19:16:40 <pboy> Before we switch, what is the next step or steps? 19:17:49 <bcotton> i'd say creating a new adoc(s) that re-does the install guide so we can get community feedback 19:18:09 <bcotton> and if it works, we do the additional docs 19:18:24 <pboy> OK, I could do that, need about 2 weeks "turnaround time". 19:18:48 <pboy> And need to know where to clone the current Inst. guide 19:19:02 <pboy> (there are so many repos ....) 19:19:35 <bcotton> i'd say do it as files within https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/install-guide 19:20:09 <pboy> OK, that looks easy 19:21:50 <bcotton> #topic Open floor 19:22:02 <bcotton> anything for open floor today? 19:22:08 <shaunm[m]> I have something 19:22:13 <bcotton> go ahead :-) 19:22:39 <shaunm[m]> I just want to mention the work the RHEL docs folks have been doing on upstreaming their stuff to CentOS. There's a preview build here: https://redhat.gitlab.io/centos-stream/docs/enterprise-docs/ 19:22:57 <shaunm[m]> And if you want to comment, here's a thread on centos-docs: https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/2022-March/026867.html 19:23:13 <shaunm[m]> Or email me directly if you don't fancy yet another mailing list. 19:23:15 <shaunm[m]> kthxbye 19:23:31 <bcotton> thanks! 19:23:33 <bcotton> anything else? 19:23:41 <pbokoc> I branched versioned docs for F36 earlier today now that beta is out and I'm writing a "how 2 relnotes" guide that I'll post on the forums. Btw, does anyone here have permissions to sticky a post? 19:23:58 <bcotton> pbokoc: i do 19:24:10 <pbokoc> bcotton, cool, I'll ping you when I submit it. 19:24:18 <bcotton> pbokoc: sounds good 19:24:33 <bcotton> #info Fedora docs are now branched for F36 19:24:54 <bcotton> #info pbokoc is writing a "how to do release notes" guide that he'll post in the forum (and bcotton will pin) 19:25:46 <bcotton> Okay, well my phone says it's time to go get my kids off of the school bus, and we seem to have run our course 19:25:50 <bcotton> thanks everyone! 19:26:08 <pbokoc> Cheers 19:26:17 <bcotton> #endmeeting