20:00:31 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2023-04-19) 20:00:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 19 20:00:31 2023 UTC. 20:00:31 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 20:00:31 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 20:00:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2023-04-19)' 20:00:32 <tdawson> #meetingname epel 20:00:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel' 20:00:34 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson pgreco carlwgeorge salimma dcavalca dherrera gotmax23 smooge 20:00:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca dherrera gotmax23 nirik pgreco salimma smooge tdawson 20:00:35 <tdawson> #topic aloha 20:00:41 <jonathanspw> .hi 20:00:42 <zodbot> jonathanspw: jonathanspw 'Jonathan Wright' <jonathan@almalinux.org> 20:00:57 <carlwgeorge> .hi 20:00:58 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com> 20:01:03 <rsc> .hello robert 20:01:05 <zodbot> rsc: robert 'Robert Scheck' <redhat@linuxnetz.de> 20:01:26 <nirik> morning 20:01:29 <tdawson> Hi jonathanspw and carlwgeorge 20:01:34 <tdawson> Hello rsc 20:01:38 <tdawson> Morning nirik 20:01:41 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa 20:01:42 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com> 20:01:59 <salimma> .hello 20:01:59 <zodbot> salimma: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1". 20:02:02 <salimma> .hi 20:02:03 <zodbot> salimma: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name> 20:02:09 <Eighth_Doctor> whoa 20:02:16 <Eighth_Doctor> what's the difference between hello and hi? 20:02:30 <salimma> hello needs your nick 20:02:39 <dminer> interesting... 20:02:42 <salimma> hi calls hello with your IRC nick assuming that's the fas 20:02:49 <dminer> .hi 20:02:49 <Eighth_Doctor> oh so hi is like hello2 20:02:50 <zodbot> dminer: dminer 'Dalton Miner' <daltonminer@gmail.com> 20:02:51 <Eighth_Doctor> .hi 20:02:52 <salimma> or... wait I think it translates it based on the mapping in fas 20:02:56 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: Sorry, but user 'Eighth_Doctor' does not exist 20:03:06 <Eighth_Doctor> yup that still doesn't work 🤣 20:03:14 <tdawson> Hi salimma dminer and Eighth_Doctor 20:03:26 <salimma> I think it only looks at IRC nicks not Matrix 20:03:27 <dminer> intersting haha. I guess I have my IRC nick set to dminer then, because my matrix ID is daltonminer 20:03:27 <salimma> since it's an IRC bot :) 20:03:31 <Eighth_Doctor> well, IRC side, I should show up as Eighth_Doctor 20:03:32 <tdawson> Eighth_Doctor: Don't worry ... we still believe you exist 20:04:07 * salimma laughs bitterly in layoff land 20:04:11 <Eighth_Doctor> which FAS is supposed to know :P 20:04:12 <Eighth_Doctor> the bot is buggy with me, I've accepted this for a long time :) 20:04:16 <Eighth_Doctor> oh no 20:04:40 <Eighth_Doctor> you were laid off? 20:04:41 <salimma> oh, I'm fine, but some colleagues got the axe 20:04:46 <Eighth_Doctor> oh god 20:04:48 <dherrera> .hi 20:04:49 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com> 20:04:51 <nirik> :( 20:04:53 <Eighth_Doctor> you gave me a heart attack 20:04:57 <tdawson> Hi dherrera 20:05:19 <Eighth_Doctor> (obviously it sucks that people have been laid off, but I don't want you to lose your job) 20:05:27 <tdawson> #topic End Of Life (EOL) 20:05:28 <tdawson> RHEL 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30 20:05:30 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 goes EOL in 2024-05-31 20:05:31 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 goes EOL in 2027-05-31 20:05:46 <Eighth_Doctor> it's a weird feeling seeing the newer version end before the older one 20:06:25 <carlwgeorge> Eighth_Doctor: of course the bot is buggy for you, it doesn't expect people to have a dozen nics :P 20:06:27 <tdawson> Yep ... and as far as I can tell, that isn't changing ... so epel8-next will end with Stream 8. 20:06:48 <Eighth_Doctor> carlwgeorge: lol 20:06:55 <nirik> might add epel8-next to the EOLS? 20:07:00 <Eighth_Doctor> probably a good idea 20:07:53 <tdawson> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30 20:07:54 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31 20:07:56 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31 20:08:07 <tdawson> Like that? 20:08:13 <neil> .hi 20:08:14 <zodbot> neil: neil 'Neil Hanlon' <neil@shrug.pw> 20:08:18 <nirik> yeah, sounds good. well, reads good I guess. 20:08:19 <tdawson> Hi neil 20:08:20 <Eighth_Doctor> tdawson: yeah 20:08:23 <neil> heya tdawson 20:08:39 <carlwgeorge> tdawson: lgtm 20:08:53 <tdawson> OK, I've changed it on my agenda notes. 20:08:56 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues 20:08:58 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open 20:09:16 <tdawson> Sorry, fast transition there. :) 20:09:21 <Eighth_Doctor> once EPEL8-next drops off, we should add RHEL 8+9 EOLs 20:10:10 <tdawson> It's going to be wierd having RHEL 8 / EPEL 8 be 5 years old ... RHEL 8 was the first RHEL I was part of. 20:10:33 <tdawson> Anywy .... as for issues ... we don't have any new ones this week, and none marked for the meeting. 20:10:42 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues 20:10:43 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open 20:10:47 <tdawson> Ugg ... sorry . 20:10:55 <tdawson> #topic Old Business 20:11:38 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: I'm going to bring up the Documentation new layout ... just cuz I got a bit confused today. 20:11:54 * carlwgeorge nods 20:12:06 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: So others don't get confused (and maybe it was just me) ... what steps are you doing right now? 20:13:34 <carlwgeorge> i've mentioned a documentation overhaul. i've created an overhaul branch in the doc repo, with the old docs moved out of the way, the new table of contents, and the antora files synced with the fedora template 20:13:38 <carlwgeorge> #link https://pagure.io/epel/commits/overhaul 20:14:53 <carlwgeorge> my intent is that now myself and others can start sending pull requests to the overhaul branch to work on restructuring the docs in smaller pieces. once we feel the overhaul branch is where we want it to be, then we can do a big merge of that into the main branch. 20:14:58 <nirik> is there a preview? or we can pull it locally to do that? 20:15:32 <carlwgeorge> i have something of a preview at https://carlwgeorge.fedorapeople.org/epel-docs/epel/, but it has way more in it that what's in git so far 20:16:06 <tdawson> You can pull it locally and run docsbuilder.sh if you want 20:16:19 <carlwgeorge> my first two prs are https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/224 and https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/225, once those are merged i'll regenerate a preview and push it up to my fedorapeople space 20:16:31 <tdawson> docsbuilder.sh is in the repo. 20:16:32 <nirik> coolio. 20:17:01 <carlwgeorge> i'll try to keep that preview current over time as we get more progress done on it 20:18:00 <carlwgeorge> my initial focus is rearranging docs with perhaps light rewording, not changing policies or guidelines. think first draft instead of perfection immediately. 20:18:17 <tdawson> Ha ... which is where my confusion came from. :) 20:19:32 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: Would you want help bringing things over? Or do you think we'd just be stepping on each others toes? 20:20:34 <carlwgeorge> there's a potential for stepping on toes, but yes help would be nice. so i guess just coordinate somewhat in #epel when you want to focus on a section of content. 20:20:55 <tdawson> Sounds good. 20:21:32 <carlwgeorge> e.g. you could say "i'm gonna work on writing the new 'contact us' page" so no one else starts that work 20:21:51 <carlwgeorge> it would be a bit frustrating to be working on something silently then see another pr pop up to do the same thing 20:22:18 <tdawson> Yep. 20:22:56 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: I've probrubly said this before, but i'll say it again, thank you for your work on this. Getting documentation looking good can be alot of work. 20:23:25 <tdawson> Anything else before we move on? 20:24:33 <tdawson> Any other Old Business that anyone wants to bring up? 20:24:40 <nirik> +1 20:25:46 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor 20:26:02 <tdawson> Does anyone have anything for Open Floor? 20:26:40 <yselkowitz[m]> I have added my packages to ELN Extras, wondering if there is a general effort to use ELN Extras to prepare for EPEL 10? 20:27:14 <carlwgeorge> it's come up as an idea for pre-creating epel10 branches, but i'm not aware of any progress towards that yet 20:28:18 <tdawson> Ya. The number of packages in ELN Extras is much smaller than what's in epel9 ... so even if we did that, it wouldn't really help too much. 20:28:28 <carlwgeorge> i think it's basically waiting on a volunteer to do a deep dive on what it would take to do such a mass branch event 20:29:34 <salimma> what's the timeline for epel 10 again? Davide and I are also interested in this 20:29:35 <carlwgeorge> i agree with tdawson, using eln extras as a reference is a good idea, but it would be even better to included "does it have an epel9 branch" into that logic. even if the package never gets added to epel10, creating the branch doesn't hurt anything and is easy to retire if it indeed doesn't make sense for epel10. 20:29:46 <tdawson> Oh ... it's up above 1000 packages - https://tiny.distro.builders/view--view-eln-extras.html 20:29:57 <Eighth_Doctor> and KDE SIG is interested in this too 20:30:27 <carlwgeorge> rhel9 was 2022, so rhel10 will be 2025. working backwards from that means i would expect c10 in 2024, and hopefully we can deliver epel10 around the same time. 20:30:35 <Eighth_Doctor> because I really don't want to do that whole effort manually again 20:30:39 <Eighth_Doctor> it sucked 20:31:19 <Eighth_Doctor> importantly, Fedora 40 is next spring 20:31:25 <Eighth_Doctor> and that's what CentOS Stream 10 is branched from 20:31:31 <Eighth_Doctor> so this is the run-up to that :) 20:31:54 <jonathanspw> by fedora 40 you mean faster dnf :D 20:31:56 <tdawson> Wha ... already ... man ... I better get busy. 20:32:19 <carlwgeorge> i'm hopeful that by the end of this year we have all the details for epel10 agreed upon, and hopefully a demo of parts of it in staging 20:33:07 * salimma needs to get busy on ELN work in H2 20:34:02 <dminer> jonathanspw: excite! 20:35:15 <tdawson> So the question nobody I've seen ask is ... will subscription-manager be faster? 20:35:17 <carlwgeorge> #info seeking volunteer to investigate mass branching epel10 based on eln-extras and/or epel9 branches 20:35:28 <Eighth_Doctor> lol 20:35:41 <Eighth_Doctor> tdawson: you're funny 20:35:56 <salimma> carlwgeorge: I'm interested, what's the scope? 20:37:56 <carlwgeorge> my thinking is reviewing the mass branching releng playbooks and determine if an adaptation of those will work for mass creating epel10 branches, based on some criteria 20:38:10 <salimma> ahh 20:38:28 <tdawson> Eighth_Doctor: It's something I've brought up many times internally. It's a legitimate reason that some people don't use RHEL vs clone. (And by some people, I usually mean me) 20:38:33 <salimma> if we have documentation on where they are I'm interested in taking a look 20:38:46 <Eighth_Doctor> tdawson: it's why I don't 20:39:10 <carlwgeorge> i'm sure nirik is finding the exact location but i bet it's in pagure.io/releng 20:39:11 <Eighth_Doctor> and the way that subman works means that you have to run it all the time to be authenticated for repos 20:40:16 <tdawson> yep 20:40:28 <nirik> There's a number of different things. The doc is at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/infra/release_guide/sop_mass_branching/ 20:40:42 <carlwgeorge> nirik++ 20:42:51 <salimma> nirik++ 20:43:01 <Eighth_Doctor> nirik++ 20:43:20 <Eighth_Doctor> kevin++ 20:43:21 <salimma> note: I don't expect to be the only person looking at this, so by no means should you be dissuaded from taking a look too :) 20:43:29 * salimma needs to work on some Btrfs toys first 20:43:40 <Eighth_Doctor> 🧈 20:43:46 <nirik> and mailman3 for rhel9? ;) 20:43:47 * nirik runs 20:44:00 <Eighth_Doctor> that's pretty close to being ready, I think 20:44:04 <nirik> But yeah, any help with mass branching welcome. 20:44:24 <Eighth_Doctor> and I believe jonathanspw was looking at the FAS stack 20:44:42 <jonathanspw> sort of...sadly I think i'm having to abandon the idea of ipsilon 20:44:46 <salimma> nirik: yes, that too 20:44:52 <Eighth_Doctor> I'm working on making pagure 6.0 happen for RHEL 9 20:45:03 <salimma> slowly clawing my way through that, I took a complete break while on sabbatical 20:45:08 <Eighth_Doctor> refreshing everything for latest versions of stuff, fixing the CI, etc. is a slog :) 20:45:23 <Eighth_Doctor> but we got a new contributor excited about the project, so :D 20:45:24 <nirik> yep. it's painfull, but appreciated! 20:45:28 <jonathanspw> is anyone planning to give mirrormanager some love? I'm happy to help but I don't think I can tackle it alone due to my unfamiliarity with it 20:45:30 <rsc> Eighth_Doctor: is Pagure still a thing - wasn't GitLab supposed to be the successor? 20:45:37 * Eighth_Doctor sighs 20:45:47 * salimma > <@rsc:libera.chat> Conan Kudo: is Pagure still a thing - wasn't GitLab supposed to be the successor? 20:45:48 * salimma opens popcorn 20:45:54 <carlwgeorge> lol 20:45:58 <salimma> jonathanspw: what does it need? 20:46:05 <rsc> salimma: okay, I am taking back this question, even it was meant seriously. 20:46:08 <jonathanspw> well it's still running on python2... 20:46:13 <jonathanspw> salimma 20:46:23 <nirik> jonathanspw: do reach out to adrian (the maintainer). I think he would at least help out moving to rhel9 20:46:28 <Eighth_Doctor> I ported the mm2 code to Python 3 years ago, and apparently nobody deployed it 20:46:31 <Eighth_Doctor> so the port rotted 20:46:41 <Eighth_Doctor> and it's broken again 20:47:05 <carlwgeorge> rsc: tldr, it's not dead per say, but red hat isn't investing in it anymore. Eighth_Doctor is basically keeping it on life support. 20:47:30 <jonathanspw> perhaps neil and team could help with mm as well 20:47:31 <Eighth_Doctor> and still trying to do community building 20:47:48 <Eighth_Doctor> I try to do that for all the fedora-infra apps 20:48:23 <Eighth_Doctor> otherwise they all die because nobody pays attention to them and they fall into disrepair, like bodhi, pdc, and other similar apps that don't see outside adoption 20:48:54 <rsc> carlwgeorge: sounds strange. But I'm not sure if I should ask why it is as it is... 20:49:03 <salimma> on the mailman front, I should note that the conference organizers for Southern Calif Linux Expo want to use it too 20:49:14 <nirik> I'm... not sure if I want to discuss this... so I will just sit quietly 20:49:21 <salimma> so... if anyone has spare time and want to help get the django dependencies into epel9 that'd be much appreciated 20:49:24 <Eighth_Doctor> Michel Alexandre Salim 🎩: the bugzilla.org folks do too 20:49:49 <salimma> because after that, and getting mailman3 back in Fedora, I think everything should be smooth 20:51:16 <tdawson> Anything else for Open Floor? 20:52:37 <tdawson> Thank you all for coming, and for the good discussions. And thank ya'll for all you do for EPEL and it's community. 20:52:52 <tdawson> I'll talk to you next week, unless I talk to you sooner. 20:53:01 <tdawson> #endmeeting