15:02:11 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:02:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 13 15:02:11 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:15 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa 15:02:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:02:22 <adamw> #topic roll call 15:02:28 * jskladan lurks 15:02:29 <adamw> calling all rolls 15:02:29 <tflink> roll! 15:02:32 * mkrizek is here 15:02:39 * pschindl is here 15:02:52 * brunowolff is here 15:03:02 * Viking-Ice is here 15:03:23 <jreiser> jreiser lurks 15:03:41 * satellit listening 15:04:15 <adamw> morning folks 15:04:21 <adamw> #topic previous meeting follow-up 15:04:26 <adamw> bit of a bumper crop here 15:04:55 <adamw> #info "martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email" - still not done yet. we suck 15:04:58 <adamw> #action martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email 15:05:15 <adamw> tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp - I believe you did that? 15:05:28 <tflink> I don't think I did 15:06:09 <tflink> nope, I don't see one 15:06:28 <adamw> ah, well you suck too 15:06:31 <adamw> #action tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp 15:06:40 <adamw> "brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)" 15:06:41 <brunowolff> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html 15:06:44 <adamw> great job of legibility there, me 15:07:07 <adamw> #info "brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)" - this was done, see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html 15:07:08 <adamw> thanks bruno! 15:07:19 <brunowolff> I didn't get any feedback from the message posted to the test list. 15:07:19 <adamw> "adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it" 15:07:32 <adamw> brunowolff: it looked fine to me, so no action needed...i guess everyone else was the same 15:07:52 <adamw> yeah, I didn't do this one either, good lord, I need to read my action items 15:08:12 <adamw> #info "adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it" - not done yet 15:08:14 <adamw> #action adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it 15:08:24 <adamw> #info "tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp" - not done yet 15:08:40 <adamw> "kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - do we have a kparal? 15:08:43 <Viking-Ice> adamw, it's simple no point in re-running it 15:10:41 <adamw> no kparal, okay 15:10:44 <adamw> let me take a look 15:11:16 <adamw> #info "kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - this got done, by the looks of things, both pages have live images listed 15:11:48 <adamw> #info "adamw to do some promotion for the test days" - this was done, i got blog posts and twitter messages out: http://www.happyassassin.net/2013/05/06/abrt-and-sssd-test-days-this-week/ 15:11:59 <adamw> #topic Fedora 19 Beta status/planning 15:12:20 <adamw> So, any particular notes on Beta, anyone? we'll be hitting freeze soon 15:12:37 <adamw> #info Beta TC4 is currently under testing, some significant bugs found already 15:12:40 <Viking-Ice> adamw, promotion means handing it out to marketing not private blog post that nobody reads 15:12:59 <jreiser> gdm greeter to gnome shell does not work on non-3D cards. Bug 955779 graphical desktop does not start. 15:13:03 <Viking-Ice> ( or some or few people read ) marketing should just handle that stuff for us 15:13:04 <brunowolff> cwickert asked about images for the non-desktop spins on the spins list. I said that for alpha/beta nightlies should be used. 15:15:44 <jreiser> There is a rumor of gnome 3.8.2 arriving on Tuesday, perhaps fedora-branched on wednesday. Wait and see? 15:16:26 <adamw> jreiser: did you create passwords for your test users? 15:16:44 <adamw> jreiser: well, not a rumour, we're trying to get it done ahead of the freeze indeed 15:17:08 <jreiser> yes, I have passwords. This is an alpha that has been updated daily. 15:17:16 <adamw> i'm pretty sure that "ERROR:gdm-slave.c:1094:_get_uid_and_gid_for_user: assertion failed: (username != NULL)" is what I saw when I tried creating a user with no password via g-i-s (it was entertaining) 15:17:24 <adamw> hum, then probably something different 15:17:33 <adamw> can you try and reproduce with a clean install? or not practical? 15:17:53 <jreiser> OK, I'll do a clean install from TC4. 15:18:44 <adamw> has anyone else seen this one? 15:19:46 <brunowolff> Bug 955779 sounds pretty similar to what I was seeing after gdm/gnome-shell got fixed enough that they didn't crash while using llvmpipe on non-SSE2 CPUs. 15:20:02 <robatino> 955779 looks like my 946964 15:20:27 <adamw> brunowolff: ah yeah, what was the bug# for that? 15:20:30 <robatino> thanks for that, i'll probably mark mine as a dupe - my video is nvidia btw 15:20:54 <jreiser> No crash, but no transition to desktop. just all gray, everybody waiting. 15:21:08 <brunowolff> I am not sure. I was just looking, but I think it got closed since the crashing part was fixed, even if things were still pretty unusable. 15:21:16 <brunowolff> I'll look harder. 15:21:28 <adamw> brunowolff: i remember the bug yeah, i'm just blanking on the # / title 15:21:32 <jreiser> strace shows 1st "can you do 3D" gets a no, but 2nd ask gets a Yes. 15:21:34 <adamw> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=909473 15:21:47 <adamw> jreiser: see my latest comment 15:22:38 <adamw> brunowolff: doesn't really look the same, but certainly possibly related 15:23:44 <brunowolff> Yeah, 909473. I think the reported problem was different, but the state after the fix seemed a bit similar. 15:23:50 <jreiser> adamw: 909473 last comment is a question "open new X bug or not?" If that will help, I'll do it. 15:24:13 <adamw> jreiser: well to me it doesn't, really, but I might be reading it wrong... 15:24:23 <adamw> jreiser: I think we'd best wait for gdm input at this point 15:24:27 <brunowolff> I also was using an ATI 9200 for some of the testing. 15:25:47 <brunowolff> I haven't look at it much since, because it takes a lot of messing around to test, since my old slow to boot machines have been switched over to kdm/xfce. 15:25:47 <jreiser> Ok, I'll try clean TC4, then wait for gdm 3.8.2 15:26:09 <jreiser> I see same trouble on xfce, too. 15:26:14 <adamw> jreiser: i _think_ your issue may simply be a clean report of what happens with a blacklisted 3D adapter at present 15:26:23 <adamw> now I come to think of it, I'm not sure we have any other bug report for that case 15:26:40 <adamw> jreiser: have you tested GDM/GNOME with the laundry list of cards in c#13? 15:26:47 <adamw> i'd guess it'd work better with those? 15:28:50 <jreiser> 955779#c13 gives exact status on all cards as of April 23. "3D" cards pass, "X does not support 3D" cards fail. 15:30:42 <halfline> jreiser: re 955779 do you have gnome-initial-setup installed ? 15:30:50 <adamw> jreiser: Xfce and lightdm behave completely differently from GNOME and gdm in this regards, so that comment is more confusing than enlightening 15:31:03 <adamw> it's strange that they seem to respond 'the same' for you, but the actual code paths are pretty different 15:31:13 <adamw> lightdm doesn't have any form of '3D test' because it doesn't need to care 15:31:19 <jreiser> Please restate what you want me to try. 15:31:20 <adamw> (afaik anyway) 15:31:39 <adamw> jreiser: try the combination of GDM/GNOME on all those cards, rather than lightdm/Xfce 15:31:44 <halfline> i'd personally like you to try yum -y install gnome-initial-setup 15:31:50 <adamw> only because I know the maintainer would want the same; they do not behave the same at all 15:32:19 <jreiser> So far I have installed default gnome first, then "yum groupinstall xfce-desktop". 15:32:38 <jreiser> I get gdm as greeter. Both gnome desktop and xfce session fail to reach desktop. 15:32:51 <halfline> ahh interesting 15:32:55 <jreiser> That's why I believe the problem is in gdm. 15:33:09 <adamw> jreiser: comment #13 talks about trying the Xfce live image. what I'm saying is that that tells us nothing about gdm's behaviour 15:33:44 <adamw> i just wanted to know how your different adapters/machines behaved with GDM. 15:34:01 <adamw> clearly you have a problem with GDM on the 9200, but I wanted to clarify if you saw it with any other adapters. 15:34:53 <jreiser> I believe that "X11 supports 3D" implies that gdm+gnome works, and gdm+xfce works. 15:35:16 <jreiser> The problem is "x11 does not support 3d" implies failure of gdm greeter. 15:35:54 <adamw> anyhow 15:36:01 <adamw> i think we have Top Men on the case now 15:36:13 <halfline> jreiser: gnome-session does this little dance at startup 15:36:25 <halfline> where it first runs check-accelerated and sees if it succeeds 15:36:31 <halfline> if it fails, it forces software rendering 15:36:36 <halfline> and then runs check-accelerated again 15:36:44 <halfline> the second run should always succeed 15:36:52 <halfline> that's why you see it twice in your trace 15:36:59 <halfline> it's not able to do accelerated rendering the first time around 15:37:08 <halfline> so it's falling back to software 15:37:36 <adamw> #info Beta freeze is tomorrow, 2013-05-14; next goal is to build an RC ASAP 15:37:53 <halfline> let's chat in #fedora-devel 15:37:54 <jreiser> halfline: yes, that is what I see. This is Pentium4, has sse2. problem is no desktop after that dance. 15:38:13 <adamw> thanks halfline! 15:38:18 <jreiser> halfline: going to #fedora-devel 15:38:59 <adamw> brunowolff: so the behaviour on non-SSE2 CPUs is still as bad as described in 909473 > 15:38:59 <adamw> ? 15:39:54 <brunowolff> I need to retest. 15:40:12 <brunowolff> But the last time I tried, gnome wasn't really usable. 15:40:14 <adamw> ok, could you do that? and if it's still bad let's just re-open the bug to try and trigger ajax's attention 15:40:32 <adamw> #action brunowolff to re-test 909473 and re-open if it's still bad 15:41:00 <adamw> okay...anything else to cover on the f19 front? 15:41:13 <adamw> #info GNOME 3.8.2 is coming, we will try to land it in Beta just ahead of the freeze' 15:41:14 <brunowolff> Even if it gets fixed, my CPUs aren't really good enough to make gnome pleasant. I'll probably be using xfce for the rest of the lifetime of these machines. 15:41:37 <adamw> still, it'd be good to have it fixed 15:41:48 * satellit will this break cinnamon? 15:41:53 <adamw> satellit: will what? 15:41:59 <adamw> GNOME 3.8.2? I'd hope not; it's a bugfix release 15:42:02 <satellit> gnome upgrade 15:42:30 <satellit> fyi cinnamon works at this time 15:42:35 <adamw> yeah, I know, I tested it 15:42:50 <brunowolff> Isn't it landing the day of the freeze? 15:43:04 <Viking-Ice> let's hope it get's included in beta 15:43:18 <brunowolff> That's not much time to get it tested and into stable. 15:44:55 <adamw> brunowolff: yeah, I know, I'm going to try and co-ordinate getting karma on it 15:45:04 <adamw> if we don't make it, though, we'll file an FE bug 15:45:29 <adamw> #topic Test Days 15:46:17 <adamw> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-07_ABRT went ahead and we got some good results, though not much testing outside of RH's Brno office 15:46:55 <adamw> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-09_SSSD_Improvements_and_AD_Integration went ahead and looks like there was a good amount of testing 15:47:41 <adamw> #info NetworkManager test day has been postponed to 2013-06-04: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-06-04_Network_Manager 15:47:56 <adamw> anything else on test days? 15:48:11 <adamw> Martix_: is everything in hand for next week's? 15:48:32 <Martix_> no :-( 15:48:58 <adamw> oh dear :( what's the problem? 15:49:14 <Martix_> note: NM test day has been moved to 2013-06-04 15:49:24 <adamw> yeah, I noted that 15:49:31 <adamw> hence "next week's" 15:50:05 <adamw> AnacondaNewUI Followup and Thermostat are scheduled for next week 15:50:10 <Martix_> I must admit I don't have much time until June for Test Days :-/ 15:50:15 <adamw> ah 15:50:37 <adamw> in that case, any help with wrangling the remaining May test days is appreciated, I'll try and help out 15:50:51 <Martix_> adamw: thank you 15:52:14 <Martix_> adamw: btw I suggested to reschedule MariaDB TD, but I'm not sure if they can get more testers 15:52:15 <adamw> #topic Open floor 15:52:36 <adamw> we've got 8 minutes for open floor before exciting blocker review fun starts up in #fedora-blocker-review: anything to discuss? 15:53:24 <kalev> I have collected a few fixes that should help get the desktop live media closer to the target size 15:53:25 * satellit wait for blocker review for FE requst 15:53:27 <Viking-Ice> so what we are going to include the gnome 3.8.2 in beta or not? 15:53:28 <kalev> I'll send an email to the test list a bit later, would be awesome to get some testing & karma to have them included in the Beta release 15:53:32 <kalev> (waiting for one more build) 15:54:19 <adamw> Viking-Ice: i'm hoping we can. if we can get it done ahead of tomorrow, fine. if not, i'll file an FE ticket and people will have to vote on it 15:54:57 <adamw> Viking-Ice: if you and I each submit karma once the update is in, then we only need one other person :) 15:55:05 <adamw> (assuming it actually works, of course) 15:55:25 <adamw> #info GNOME 3.8.2 update should be landing soon, please test and file karma so we can try to get it in ahead of freeze 15:55:36 <kalev> we'll need some releng coordination to get an updates-testing push once the update is ready 15:55:52 <adamw> kalev: i'll ask releng to do that, but people can get it from bodhi in the mean time 15:55:53 <kalev> hard to test otherwise 15:55:53 <Viking-Ice> adamw, yeah well doing so we risk breaking and delaying beta 15:55:55 <kalev> cool 15:56:12 <Viking-Ice> not doing so we risk mass duplicated bug report from users 15:56:12 <adamw> Viking-Ice: i think it'd be ok to get it in the first day or two of freeze, after that it'd be worrying 15:56:34 <adamw> but if we co-ordinate we should be able to get it done today/tomorrow, so hopefully no problems 15:57:42 <adamw> #info desktop team is still working on getting the spin below the size target 15:58:21 <Viking-Ice> what about the rest of the spins? 15:58:44 <Viking-Ice> did you hear something from cwickert regarding lxde size ( FE ) 15:59:17 <adamw> oh, good point. no, I haven't, has anyone else? 15:59:35 <adamw> notting thinks the DVD might squeeze under size on the next compose, so we're keeping an eye open for that 16:00:26 <adamw> #info no word on LXDE spin being over size, we believe the DVD may make it under size on the next spin 16:00:48 * nirik has been working on Xfce. we are down to deciding about browsers. 16:00:59 <adamw> #info nirik is working on Xfce spin size 16:01:01 <nirik> I'll do something today with it, so we should be back under size tomorrow. 16:01:09 <adamw> blocker review starting up right now over in #fedora-blocker-review, folks 16:01:14 <adamw> so let's set the Patent Fuse 16:01:19 <cwickert> ??! 16:01:27 * cwickert never heard of it 16:01:32 <cwickert> is it oversized? 16:01:45 <adamw> cwickert: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958427 16:01:59 <adamw> oh, damn, i missed that it's assigned to bill :/ 16:02:11 <adamw> do you want to re-assign to yourself? 16:02:23 <adamw> robatino: in future it'd be good to CC the maintainer of the spin on 'spin oversize' tickets 16:02:33 <adamw> or assign it directly to them 16:02:36 <nirik> perhaps those should be against livecd-spinname? 16:02:42 <cwickert> I will take care of this 16:02:42 <adamw> yeah, probably 16:02:46 <adamw> thanks cwickert 16:02:49 <adamw> good thing we caught it ;) 16:03:00 <cwickert> however I want to say it sucks we are getting fatter and fatter with every releasee 16:03:32 <cwickert> at some point we should consider removing esoteric input methods and fonts nobody needs 16:03:41 <cwickert> anyway, too late for f19 16:03:52 <nirik> yeah, I have no idea which of the i18n stuff is important. 16:03:53 <nirik> :( 16:04:18 <cwickert> none? :-P 16:04:44 <nirik> well, I mean some of the dictionaries or fonts... are they required to make things work? or just an extra? 16:04:49 <cwickert> #info LXDE will continue to target 700 MB, cwickert to work on slimming it down 16:05:24 <robatino> i reassigned to LiveCD-LXDE 16:05:30 <cwickert> thanks 16:05:35 <cwickert> move on please 16:05:45 <cwickert> and thanks for the heads-up, adamw 16:05:50 <adamw> nirik: do ask the i18n folks. it sucks when people rip stuff out unnecessarily 16:05:54 <adamw> cwickert: thank viking 16:06:00 <cwickert> thanks Viking-Ice! 16:06:11 <adamw> alrighty folks, everyone over to blocker review, thanks for coming! 16:06:21 <adamw> #endmeeting