16:16:24 <quaid> #startmeeting
16:16:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Sep 17 16:16:24 2010 UTC.  The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:16:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:16:25 <foss_bot> Meeting started Fri Sep 17 16:16:24 2010 UTC. The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://foss.rit.edu/foss_bot.
16:16:25 <foss_bot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #commands #info #idea #link #topic.
16:16:47 <quaid> zoglesby: we can chat here in higher resolution, then summarize and post log back to list
16:17:00 <zoglesby> sounds good
16:17:05 * quaid adds some relevant links to the record
16:17:07 <quaid> #link http://iquaid.org/2010/09/16/running-a-student-contributing-program-the-open-source-way/
16:17:11 <foss_bot> Title: i, quaid Running a student contributing program the open source way (at iquaid.org)
16:17:18 <quaid> #link http://iquaid.org/2010/09/15/do-you-like-knocking-on-doors/
16:17:20 <foss_bot> Title: i, quaid Do you like knocking on doors? (at iquaid.org)
16:18:42 <zoglesby> The whole idea of this program is very exiting to me, and I would love to see it take off but I am not sure what all has and needs to be done
16:19:38 <zoglesby> I also have not figured out the scope of it (i.e. just Fedora, or open source in general)
16:32:44 <zoglesby> I would like to see this continue, but I think part of the reason that it works is because its done over the summer, are you looking to make it a year around thing? Or maybe a winter/summer thing? What kind of goals do people have for this project?
16:44:28 * quaid is back too
16:44:56 <quaid> what we started with this last summer was to do things as we'd done in GSoC but fix stuff we wanted, such as allowing for a doc project
16:45:18 <quaid> so, Fedora has always done GSoC stuff that happened in upstream, and we just received new code in a package at the end
16:45:49 <quaid> If you look at the projects:
16:45:51 <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010_projects
16:45:52 <foss_bot> Title: Summer Coding 2010 projects - FedoraProject (at fedoraproject.org)
16:45:57 <quaid> You'll see it's a mix
16:46:06 <zoglesby> of course not to many fedora specific packages to start
16:46:19 <quaid> Four of them were Fedora-focused
16:47:01 <quaid> and a few were semi-Fedora focused, and others were of interest :)
16:47:32 <quaid> I proposed a rule that Fedora should benefit clearly from the project, but didn't have to be the sole recipient, and in fact would be better if it were an upstream in many cases.
16:48:34 <quaid> so, the goal of doing year round was to make it something people in the Southern Hemisphere can do.
16:48:43 <quaid> during their summertime
16:49:05 <quaid> so that is the session we are doing now, to run from Oct to Apr
16:50:08 <zoglesby> thats what I was figured would be the best way to do it
16:51:17 <adimania> quaid, will this session be only for students in southern hemisphere? A lot of northern hemisphere students who missed the opportunity last time might be interested too.
16:51:47 <zoglesby> I don't see a need to close it off (personally)
16:53:15 <abadger1999> ... as long as students can properly allocate time.... GSoC and FSoC were supposed to be time commitments similar to a full time job.
16:53:49 <abadger1999> which makes school + SoC... strenuous.
16:54:31 <zoglesby> but someone who is off for the semester should be able to apply
16:54:43 <abadger1999> <nod>
16:54:49 <zoglesby> no matter their physical location
16:55:15 <adimania> yes, actually I just came to know that a few colleges permit students 6 month internship, maybe those students can be benefited from this.
16:56:09 <gwerra> most people in India in their 8th sem (last sem) have to do projects in those sems to pass, so well they can be benifited from this toom
16:56:11 <gwerra> too**
16:59:30 <zoglesby> gwerra: thats good to know
17:28:44 <zoglesby> quaid: so are we trying to find orginizations to sponsor the program?
17:28:53 <zoglesby> I am still trying to figure out what needs done
19:18:14 <zoglesby> quaid: you still around? (sorry to bother you)
19:19:44 <quaid> no, seriously, it's been distracting, but I promise you that you and I are having one of the most important conversations I'll have today :)
19:19:52 <quaid> I mean, it's distracting *around here*
19:19:58 <quaid> not the conversation is distracting :D
19:20:20 <zoglesby> lol, I felt very bad for a moment
19:20:40 * quaid is in a distracting physical environment :)
19:21:09 <quaid> I could probably move 50' and solve the problem, but this spot is just so nice
19:21:16 <quaid> ok, let me work down the buffer really quickly
19:21:59 <quaid> adminia's point is good, even abadger1999 is working with an off-schedule in that the student's school finished and restarted a month off from the standard North American schedule (iirc)
19:22:17 <quaid> also, our schedule covers a specific quantity of coding time
19:22:21 <quaid> iirc 11 weeks
19:22:50 <quaid> so if a student can arrange 11 full-time weeks (roughly 40 hours a week, some might be 30, some 50)
19:23:19 <quaid> and do that within the 4 month window in the middle of the program (Nov - Feb)
19:23:33 <quaid> that's probably fine, too -- the main reason to not do that is complication for us
19:23:55 <quaid> but since we are so far doing everything on the digital equivalent of pieces of paper stuck on the wall ...
19:24:09 <quaid> and I hope our infrastructure can support flexible scheduling :)
19:24:32 <quaid> zoglesby: we are definitely looking for other sponsors
19:24:49 <quaid> to supply everything from more money, more help, more publicity, more networking, more whatever.
19:25:12 <quaid> My idea was to invite a few sponsorship levels this time, so we can cap the amount of money at "not too much for a second run"
19:25:20 <quaid> i.e., I don't want $1mil in budget right now :)
19:25:29 * quaid isn't Chris DiBona
19:25:33 <adimania> one suggestion, reddragon, mentored by Shrink has developed a project management suite during Summer Coding this season. I think we can give it a try.
19:25:33 <zoglesby> lol
19:25:39 <quaid> we started with a $15K budget
19:25:52 <quaid> I'd like to see that doubled, with Red Hat contributing a smaller amount than before
19:26:10 <zoglesby> ok
19:26:27 * zoglesby is trying to make a list of things that need done
19:26:35 <quaid> #link http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/presentations/Fedora_Students_Contributing/Sponsorship_presentation-0.1.odp
19:26:43 <quaid> zoglesby: go ahead and use the bot features
19:26:45 <quaid> e.g.
19:27:02 <quaid> #action Research if FSoC can be used for Oct/Apr run
19:27:11 <quaid> we'll get hte summary at the end
19:27:27 <quaid> (put a nick in first to assign it iirc - #action quaid Make something happen!)
19:29:21 <quaid> #action Request a public test server instance from Fedora Infrastructure (via Trac) for Four Seasons of Code instance
19:29:56 <zoglesby> #action zoglesby Identify possible sponsoring organizations and contacts
19:30:44 <quaid> awesomesauce
19:31:30 <quaid> zoglesby: in case you didn't notice from my multiple blog posts on the subject ... this thing is going to tank if fundraising is left up to me. :)
19:31:47 <zoglesby> october is when you would like to start to take proposals?
19:31:55 <quaid> and if that effort can produce even one new helping hand from $Big_ISV that is so much more gold.
19:32:03 <quaid> we need to work out a draft schedule
19:32:06 <quaid> here's the thing ...
19:32:18 <quaid> I forget where we discussed the ideas of how to do this schedule, abadger1999 may remember?
19:32:45 <quaid> but I _think_ it was Oct to Mar, with Apr to Sep as the other window
19:33:05 <abadger1999> I don't remember what the other window was going to be :-(
19:33:17 <quaid> #action Start collecting project ideas on a new set of wiki pages
19:33:26 <quaid> well, that seems to work :)
19:33:57 <zoglesby> yeah, but 14 days is not lots of time
19:34:08 <quaid> #action Reschedule or start holding weekly SIG meetings starting 22 Sep or sooner
19:34:26 <quaid> from now? true
19:34:37 <quaid> and I'm not sure what Oct means yet
19:34:43 <quaid> let's look at the last one ...
19:34:44 <zoglesby> ok
19:34:48 <quaid> one second, I'll make an etherpad
19:35:29 <quaid> #link http://openetherpad.org/FSC-Oct-2010-Apr-2011-schedule
19:35:30 <foss_bot> Title: EtherPad: FSC-Oct-2010-Apr-2011-schedule (at openetherpad.org)
19:35:37 <quaid> then I'll paste the last schedule for tweaking
19:35:43 <quaid> we'll keep chat here, not in etherpad
19:36:56 <quaid> zoglesby: I use wiki syntax in etherpad to make easy pasting back to wiki; so you can ignore the wysiwyg toolbar
19:37:16 <zoglesby> ok
19:37:39 <quaid> ok, before I do wholesale editing ...
19:37:59 <quaid> October might be submit applications month
19:38:10 <quaid> that should be at least a few weeks window, but more time is better
19:38:19 <zoglesby> indeed
19:38:29 <quaid> however, we want to use either FSoC or another tool _before_ we take proposals
19:38:37 <quaid> so the 14 days is "get new infra up" :_
19:38:45 <quaid> ah, that's what you just said!
19:39:08 * quaid just sent email to the lists about FSoC infra
19:39:40 <quaid> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/summer-coding/2010-September/000113.html
19:39:42 <foss_bot> Title: Four Seasons of Code instance (at lists.fedoraproject.org)
19:40:02 <quaid> zoglesby: this is ugly, but I'm thinking of two ways to get infra up in time:
19:40:40 <quaid> 1. publictest0X.fedoraproject.org/fsc/ & we use the test instance for the live program
19:41:08 <quaid> 2. Google's SoC tool is Melange, and we can probably get it running on Google App Engine *spit*
19:41:14 <quaid> I am loathe to do the second
19:41:23 <quaid> but I am scared of doing it all by hand on the wiki again :)
19:41:59 <zoglesby> I would like to avoid app engine if we can
19:46:42 <iquaid> it appears my IRC host is down
19:46:58 <iquaid> last I saw was "scared of ... wiki again"
19:47:00 <iquaid> ah ha!
19:47:08 <iquaid> DSL problem over there
19:47:17 <zoglesby> 19:41 < zoglesby> I would like to avoid app engine if we can
19:47:22 * quaid quickly adds chairs
19:47:37 <quaid> #chair zoglesby adimania abadger1999 gwerra
19:47:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 adimania gwerra quaid zoglesby
19:47:38 <foss_bot> Current chairs: abadger1999 adimania gwerra quaid zoglesby
19:48:00 <quaid> oh, dear, we may have two meeting bots going :)
19:48:30 <quaid> zoglesby: yeah, considering how much I rail about "FOSS only infrastructure!" it would be pretty poor form for me to use it here
19:48:43 <quaid> in fact, I'll personally do it by hand again if we have to, but let's please not
19:49:09 <quaid> zoglesby: aiui, the issue with Melange is that it is (was?) coded for App Engine, so we'd have to fix it to run Fedora infra
19:49:15 <quaid> but we should look at that anyway
19:52:06 <quaid> #idea If we have to do proposals manually, reconsider using the wiki vs. just email
19:52:16 <quaid> well, or something
19:52:25 <quaid> ok, zoglesby, what other questions are out there?
19:53:00 * zoglesby thinking
19:55:51 <zoglesby> seeing the schedule helps to clear some things up
19:55:56 * quaid is looking at schools in the south to see how their calendars work
19:57:53 <quaid> ok, it's roughly that school is done by end of Oct
19:58:02 <quaid> and starts up again first of March
19:58:28 <quaid> so dates we can expect that cover "most" students might be Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb
19:58:48 <quaid> and in those 16 weeks we need 11 for coding
19:58:54 <quaid> 12 contiguous for the mid-term week
19:59:16 <zoglesby> that should work, if we start on Nov 1st
19:59:27 <quaid> and no later than 15 Nov
19:59:31 <quaid> for coding start
20:04:57 <quaid> #action Solve payment problems at beginning of project, including collecting early how-to-pay information from each student.
20:05:34 <zoglesby> I am sure there is a good story to go with that
20:23:05 <quaid> it's a horrible story, really, and ongoing
20:23:15 <quaid> but hopefully it will be better in the future
20:23:53 <zoglesby> I added it in as a reminder to ask in after students are accepted
20:40:52 <quaid> I think we'll need to tweak the actual dates a bit to fit the real calendar, but the stretch between milestones is maintained
20:41:03 <quaid> for now, we can use this as a solid draft
20:41:32 <quaid> hmm, that seems foreshortened a bit
20:42:23 <zoglesby> thats what I was thinking
20:43:18 * quaid pulls out the previous schedule tab to compare alongside
20:43:30 <zoglesby> its a month short some how
20:45:06 <zoglesby> I see, april was for submitting stuff only
20:45:26 <zoglesby> we combined april and may into october
20:45:57 <zoglesby> but that may be better, it gives another month to code
20:45:57 <quaid> ah
20:46:20 <quaid> do you want to try rejiggering the schedule around that, to make sure we have enough stretch in there?
20:46:47 <quaid> I have to take a moment to help move a real world object
20:46:47 <quaid> brb
20:53:38 <quaid> back
20:54:54 <zoglesby> I added march to the end, moved the mid term to dec and gave a whole extra month to dev time
20:55:22 * quaid uses playback feature
20:55:32 <quaid> the Time Slider
20:57:24 <quaid> yeah, that's good, use March that way, just as we use Sep. while students are starting back in classes
20:59:24 <zoglesby> well on that note I am going to bed, thanks for the help hopefully we can get the ball rolling on this quickly
20:59:58 <quaid> likewise, mate!
21:00:06 <quaid> you have helped a lot already with just this discussion :)
21:00:21 <quaid> I'll close the meeting log and send notes out to summer-coding@ (the main SIG list ... for now)
21:00:41 <zoglesby> sounds good
21:04:00 <quaid> #endmeeting