05:30:27 <paragan> #startmeeting i18n
05:30:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 29 05:30:27 2021 UTC.
05:30:27 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
05:30:27 <zodbot> The chair is paragan. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
05:30:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:30:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:30:27 <paragan> #meetingname i18n
05:30:27 <paragan> #topic agenda and roll call
05:30:27 <paragan> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2021-11-29
05:30:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:31:35 <pwu> hi
05:31:38 <juhp> hi
05:31:39 <tagoh> hi
05:31:58 <suanand> hello
05:32:32 <paragan> Hi all
05:32:42 <fujiwara> hi
05:32:58 <paragan> #chair pwu juhp tagoh suanand fujiwara
05:32:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: fujiwara juhp paragan pwu suanand tagoh
05:33:11 * mfabian ☺
05:33:26 <paragan> #chair mfabian
05:33:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: fujiwara juhp mfabian paragan pwu suanand tagoh
05:33:46 <paragan> let's start this meeting
05:33:47 <paragan> #topic Upcoming schedule
05:33:47 <paragan> #info 2021-11-30 Fedora Linux 33 EOL auto closure
05:33:48 <paragan> #info 2021-12-22 Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Changes requiring infrastructure changes)
05:33:48 <paragan> #info 2021-12-28 Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Changes requiring mass rebuild)
05:33:48 <paragan> #info 2021-12-28 Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes)
05:33:49 <paragan> #info 2022-01-18 Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Self Contained Changes)
05:34:13 <paragan> Tomorrow is EOL for F33 release
05:34:27 <paragan> Change proposal dates are also coming soon
05:35:22 <paragan> not much yet for F36 release milestones
05:36:03 <paragan> Let's move to next topic
05:36:40 <paragan> #topic Issues
05:37:02 <paragan> #info #135: Fedora 33 Bug triaging  (pnemade)
05:37:02 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/135
05:37:25 <paragan> Only 4 bugs are remaining on F33 bugs tracker
05:37:51 <juhp> Shall we review them?
05:37:53 <paragan> I think all have no opinion further on how to proceed.
05:38:05 <paragan> Ok we can review them now
05:38:36 <paragan> 1) ibus bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1751061
05:39:33 <juhp> mfabian: is that still relevant for F34+?
05:39:58 <juhp> ah probably not around
05:40:10 <juhp> oops hi mfabian, my mistake
05:40:59 <mfabian> Oh, I should check on F35 ...
05:41:11 <juhp> Is it fine to close culmus-fonts?
05:41:41 <paragan> Thanks mfabian do check that bug today and provide your comment
05:41:53 <paragan> 2) ibus-kkc bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1910907
05:42:50 <juhp> No thoughts on that one
05:43:15 <paragan> Okay
05:43:33 <paragan> 3) glib2 bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1919760
05:44:14 <juhp> fujiwara: any final thoughts?
05:45:02 <juhp> What about culmus?
05:45:42 <paragan> fujiwara, do provide your comment in that bug
05:45:48 <paragan> 4) culmus-fonts bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1919932
05:45:52 <fujiwara> It might be fixed but should be left until the auto-lose.
05:46:03 <fujiwara> s/auto-lost/auto-close/
05:46:15 <juhp> okay
05:46:28 <paragan> There are 2 things about this bug 1) I have not able to reproduce this 2) culmus-fonts moved ahead dropping bitmap fonts now
05:46:39 <paragan> so I am not sure how to proceed further
05:46:55 <juhp> Okay, let's move on then - I think the remaining bugs are okay
05:47:49 <paragan> I added same in comment to culmus-fonts bug
05:48:10 <paragan> Ok
05:48:17 <juhp> thanks
05:48:27 <paragan> if nothing more to discuss on this ticket, we can move to next issue
05:48:44 <paragan> #info #137: Docs Beats for Fedora 35 (pnemade)
05:48:44 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/137
05:49:01 <juhp> (I think Vishal moved his 6 bugs earlier)
05:49:28 <paragan> In last meeting it was decided to close this ticket but did not get closed. So I closed this now.
05:49:50 <paragan> moving to next issue
05:50:38 <paragan> #info #140: Get locale user stats using DNF Countme (vishalvvr)
05:50:38 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/140
05:51:02 <paragan> I don't see any recent comment on this ticket
05:51:19 <paragan> hopefully Vishal will add some comment there
05:51:59 <juhp> Yeah that one is kind of stalled, not sure how much headway we can make, though I still feel it would be useful
05:52:19 <juhp> Maybe we should open an upstream ticket?
05:52:35 <paragan> agree
05:53:32 <juhp> I suggested it in the ticket
05:53:37 <paragan> Thanks
05:53:58 <paragan> Let's move to next issue
05:54:22 <paragan> #info #142: Hunspell Dictionary dir change from myspell/ to hunspell/ (vishalvvr)
05:54:23 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/142
05:55:58 <paragan> I don't see any further comment in this ticket which tells about the test repo results
05:56:28 <paragan> hopefully Vishal will add it
05:57:06 <paragan> any comments? if not let's move to next issue
05:57:40 <juhp> yes
05:58:30 <paragan> #info #143: Tracker for Fedora 36 Changes (pnemade)
05:58:31 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/143
05:59:09 <paragan> if anyone is planning to submit any F36 Change then please do so early and add link to that Change page to this ticket
06:00:11 <paragan> Ok let's move to next issue :)
06:00:26 <juhp> and we can also discuss proposals here
06:00:39 <paragan> yes
06:01:46 <paragan> #info #144: Fedora 34 Bug triaging  (pnemade)
06:01:47 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/144
06:02:42 <paragan> we need to start triaging F34 bugs soon
06:02:49 <paragan> currently we have 63 bugs
06:02:56 <juhp> aha
06:05:59 <paragan> moving to next issue
06:06:12 <paragan> #info #145: decide meeting chairperson for F36 cycle (petersen)
06:06:12 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/145
06:07:10 <juhp> Would anyone like to step up to chair this cycle's meetings?
06:08:03 <juhp> Dunno if we need another week... to conclude
06:08:30 <juhp> I think it is a good chance to gain experience chairing the meeting
06:09:28 <paragan> let's discuss this offline to find new chair before next meeting
06:13:21 <paragan> moving to next issue
06:13:30 <paragan> #info #146: switch @fonts and langpacks-pa to google-noto-sans-gurmukhi-vf-fonts (petersen)
06:13:30 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/146
06:13:54 <paragan> If we all are okay for this change then I can proceed and will make the change in langpacks
06:14:17 <paragan> and in comps
06:14:19 <juhp> Please
06:14:28 <juhp> It seems an oversight
06:14:41 <tagoh> The change required in package has already been done in rawhide btw.
06:14:59 <paragan> tagoh, you mean in comps file?
06:15:01 <juhp> Thanks
06:15:33 <tagoh> paragan, no, I meant changing the priority for fontconfig file for google-noto-sans-gurmukhi-fonts and -vf-fonts.
06:15:43 <paragan> aha
06:15:45 <paragan> thanks
06:16:28 <paragan> I will make the required change in comps and langpacks then
06:17:06 <paragan> #topic Open Floor
06:17:12 <paragan> anything to discuss here?
06:18:27 <mfabian> Recently I noticed that when enchant2-aspell and aspell-en are installed, python3-enchanged uses aspell instead of hunspell for English automatially. Is aspell “better” than hunspell?
06:20:26 <paragan> I think hunspell is better than aspell but some people still prefer to use aspell
06:20:55 <paragan> if aspell is getting preferred, we can think of changing the preference if its possible
06:21:16 <mfabian> It is hardcoded somewhere in enchant.
06:21:34 <mfabian> It is possible to change it when  using it from python3-enchant though.
06:21:35 <juhp> I wonder how nuspell compares
06:22:10 <juhp> I just googled and saw some old reddit thread saying aspell is better (algorithm)
06:22:58 <juhp> Maybe aspell is less maintained?
06:22:59 <mfabian> I was undecided which was better, aspell shows many more suggestions usually, although these didn’t seem to be so useful to me:
06:23:10 <juhp> Okay
06:23:11 <mfabian> $ python3
06:23:11 <mfabian> Python 3.10.0 (default, Oct  4 2021, 00:00:00) [GCC 11.2.1 20210728 (Red Hat 11.2.1-1)] on lin
06:23:11 <mfabian> ux
06:23:11 <mfabian> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
06:23:14 <mfabian> >>> import enchant
06:23:17 <mfabian> >>> d = enchant.Dict('en_US')
06:23:20 <mfabian> >>> d.suggest('kamel')
06:23:25 <mfabian> ['Jamel', 'Camel', 'camel', 'Jamal', 'gamely']
06:23:26 <mfabian> >>>
06:23:30 <mfabian> 
06:23:33 <mfabian> That is aspell.
06:23:39 <mfabian> hunspell would suggest only "Camel" and "camel".
06:23:47 <paragan> mfabian, both have different dictionary base, hence suggestions will also change
06:23:47 <juhp> aha
06:24:13 <juhp> Well seems the algorithms are also different
06:24:13 <paragan> mfabian, some languages may have good apsell dictionary coverage whereas hunspell is less
06:24:16 <mfabian> paragan, typically the number of suggestions using aspell is much bigger.
06:24:54 <paragan> mfabian, you may want to check how many words are listed in its aspell and hunspell packages
06:25:08 <juhp> aha
06:25:13 <mfabian> aspell dictionaries are apparently not plain text files like hunspell dictionaries are, so thy are not so easily readable.
06:25:28 <paragan> tools are there
06:25:45 <paragan> some packages converted aspell to its hunspell in Fedora
06:27:30 <paragan> e.g. hunspell-csb, hunspell-az
06:27:32 <mfabian> I saw some statistics after googling that aspell more often has the correct word in the suggestions than hunspell, but if aspell just always suggests a lot more words, that makes it more likely that the correct word is included, even though the long list might not be so helpful.
06:28:33 <mfabian> Last offical hunspell release seems from 2018, aspell 2019, maybe both are active.
06:28:34 <paragan> I still think it should not be aspell vs hunspell rather which dictionary per lang have better coverage aspell or huspell
06:28:56 <mfabian> The defaults  in enchant are different per language.
06:29:15 <mfabian> For some languages enchant uses hunspell by default, for some languages aspell.
06:29:34 <juhp> interesting
06:29:53 <juhp> if available?
06:31:00 <mfabian> http://pyenchant.github.io/pyenchant/tutorial.html#brokers
06:32:43 <mfabian> “The following example states that for American English the MySpell provider should be tried first, followed by the aspell provider. For all other languages, the ordering is reversed:”
06:32:54 <mfabian> b = enchant.Broker()
06:32:54 <mfabian> 
06:32:54 <mfabian> b.set_ordering("en_US","myspell,aspell")
06:32:55 <mfabian> 
06:32:58 <mfabian> b.set_ordering("*","aspell,myspell")
06:33:01 <mfabian> 
06:33:04 <mfabian> b.request_dict("en_US").provider
06:33:05 <saroy> :)
06:33:07 <mfabian> <Enchant: Myspell Provider>
06:33:10 <mfabian> 
06:33:14 <mfabian> b.request_dict("en_GB").provider
06:33:17 <mfabian> <Enchant: Aspell Provider>
06:33:33 <bytehackr> :)
06:33:38 <mfabian> So if one does not change this, it has default orders to try, for English it tries aspell first by default but if aspell-en is not installed, it tries hunspell.
06:34:20 <mfabian> That’s how I found it because some guy on Debian had different results in the Typing Booster unit tests, that was because he had aspell-en installed and I had not.
06:35:24 <juhp> I dunno - overall sounds like hunspell might be more effective generally for Typing Booster?
06:35:49 <mfabian> Depends on what for maybe. Spellchecking and completing is sort of independent.
06:36:20 <mfabian> For completing I do not use aspell dictionaries at the moment as they are not plain word lists.
06:37:36 <paragan> mfabian, do you have any proposal here?
06:38:10 <mfabian> Not at the moment, it just surprised me that there are so many spellcheckers and that enchant chooses automatically depending on what is installed.
06:38:25 <paragan> Okay
06:38:39 <mfabian> I may try to find out whether I can access the aspell dictionaries for completion somehow, currently I don't know how.
06:38:41 <paragan> if you need any change, you can report bug against enchant
06:38:59 <paragan> Ok
06:39:02 <paragan> Thanks
06:39:17 <paragan> any other thing to discuss, otherwise we can close this meeting
06:40:03 <paragan> Thanks for joining this meeting
06:40:05 <paragan> #endmeeting