<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:00:36
!startmeeting i18n
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
07:00:38
Meeting started at 2024-05-13 07:00:36 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
07:00:39
The Meeting name is 'i18n'
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:00:50
!meetingname i18n
!topic agenda and roll call
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2024-05-13
<@sshil:fedora.im>
07:00:52
Hello
<@fujiwarat:matrix.org>
07:01:20
hi
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:01:37
Parag is away. I'll take the chair today.
<@mfabian:matrix.org>
07:01:45
Hi
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:01:47
Hi
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:02:15
hi
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:02:34
!meetingname i18n
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:03:33
hi
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:03:50
Let's get started.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:03:53
!topic Issues
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:04:07
!info #158: State of i18n and l10n in Workstation (petersen)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:04:11
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/158
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:04:34
Jens Petersen: Do you have any updates?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:05:27
Short answer is no... when should we look at it?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:06:49
Is there any new tickets for this in WG?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:07:05
There are quite a lot of issue listed there, so maybe we need to prioritise and review them
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:07:11
No
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:07:56
I dunno if it makes sense to create i18n tickets for all of them (well maybe a subset)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:08:44
Sure. it may be a good idea
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:08:50
Okay
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:09:08
Let me try to do it before the next meeting
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:09:22
Thanks!
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:10:13
Alright. let's move on.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:10:28
!info #162: track Fonts component bugs (petersen)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:10:30
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/162
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:11:12
I don't think we have any bugs we need to discuss around this.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:11:31
!info #183: Fedora 38 Bug triaging (pnemade)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:11:34
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/183
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:12:10
As of today, we still have 21 bugs open for f38.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:12:41
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2122022 (ax86-terminus-ttf-fonts) could proceed?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:13:44
Okay. will take a look later.
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:13:55
Does this list become f39 or f40 tracker at some point?
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:15:04
I think there is some terminus-fonts package...
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:15:30
I think we will open another ticket when f38 is EOL'd and next target of EOL will be f39.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:17:19
Please find some time to take a look at f38 bugs. otherwise they will be unfortunately auto-closed by 21st of May.
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:17:44
Is the ax86-terminus-ttf-fonts package related with the terminus-fonts package?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:18:29
pwu: Please check the upstream url.
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:19:03
tagoh: Okay
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:20:17
Anything we want to highlight on f38 bugs?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:21:30
Do we think https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2178174 is still reproducible (flatpak ibus indicator)?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:24:00
Hm, no, I can't. it looks good at the moment.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:24:13
Aha
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:24:43
pwu: maybe libreoffice bugs can be bumped?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:24:55
tagoh: then can close it I guess :)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:25:35
Jens Petersen: Yep. I did just now. thanks.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:25:42
Just a reminder to all, please also triage the bugs you had reported there
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:25:59
Jens Petersen: Maybe the libreoffice bugs are fixed in upstream.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:26:09
aha
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:26:33
Basically we should either move or close the bugs ahead of EOL
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:27:06
It might be okay to let ABRT bugs to autoclose, but again they should really be looked over since they may contain useful info
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:27:06
I prefer to close the libreoffice as EOL.
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:27:33
I prefer to close the libreoffice bugs as EOL.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:27:34
That is actually worse than saying fixed upstream
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:28:11
I think it would be good to add some comments even if you want to move it to upstream.
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:28:50
Okay, maybe I will close it after the meeting...
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:29:48
The important thing is to close the loop on these bugs, not to fix them now in f38
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:30:08
I prefer to close the libreoffice bugs as EOL.
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:31:30
For the libreoffice bugs.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:33:36
fujiwara: is there any open upstream issue for vte surrounding text?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:35:06
most of f38 bugs are reported through abrt. maybe hard to reproduce I guess... let's check with the reporter if not yet. if not sure, maybe good to try bump if it is not yet. otherwise maybe close them as currentrelease ?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:40:19
Let's move on to the next topic.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:40:37
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/183
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:40:39
!info #185: Evaluate if we can have ibus-chewing as default IME for Taiwan (pwu)
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:41:08
Kan-Ru Chen:)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:41:09
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/185
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:41:13
Oops, wrong link
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:41:45
I created the Change draft here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBusChewingForZhTW
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:42:02
I think I'll mark it as ready for Wrangler after meeting
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:42:51
Kan-Ru Chen: sounds good to me anyway
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:43:14
Kan-Ru Chen: How to try the new ibus-chewing package?
<@fujiwarat:matrix.org>
07:43:21
There were many bugs of vte and closed. Currently I have https://gitlab.gnome.org/fujiwarat/vte/-/merge_requests/1
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:43:43
fujiwara: aha
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:44:49
pwu: rawhide has ibus-chewing 2.0.0 and https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kanru/libchewing-git/ has the upcoming libchewing 0.8 release
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:45:21
Kan-Ru Chen: maybe good to add it to the proposal page?
<@pwu:fedora.im>
07:45:22
Kan-Ru Chen: Thanks!
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:45:48
Kan-Ru Chen: when do you plan to decide the final version for F41 btw? Maybe depends on upstream progress?
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:47:03
yeah, it will depends on upstream progress. If no serious bugs were reported then new feature development will pick-up sooner.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:47:14
Dunno if there are any more considerations for users migrating from ibus-libzhuyin in terms of usage?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:47:43
Kan-Ru Chen: would be good to decide on the final version in the Change later
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:48:42
(I don't mean "forced migration", more just in adoption or "getting used" to ibus-chewing)
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:48:54
I'll clarify in the change.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:49:03
Cool thanks
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:50:15
Anyway thanks for putting it all together, you can tweak make tweaks after submitting, but I think it is ready enough
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:50:30
Anyway thanks for putting it all together, you can _still_ make tweaks after submitting, but I think it is ready enough
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:50:41
Is there anything else we want to *evaluate* to accomplish this Change?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:52:24
I think fujiwara suggested to refresh the old QA:Chewing testcase
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:53:39
From here I think it is really up to fedora user/community feedback and our testday etc
<@fujiwarat:matrix.org>
07:53:40
Commented old bugzila issue of vte.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/2065#note_1551816
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:54:01
As we have separate test case for engines, yeah, if we have updated test case for ibus-chewing that would be nice.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:54:07
fujiwara: thanks
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:56:08
Kan-Ru Chen: one more small suggestion you could add a link to the i18n pagure ticket - that way it is clear the the Fedora i18n is aware of the Change
<@juhp:matrix.org>
07:56:20
Kan-Ru Chen: one more small suggestion you could add a link to the i18n pagure ticket - that way it is clear that Fedora i18n is aware of the Change
<@kanru:wara.tw>
07:56:49
Sure thing.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:58:05
Cool, anything else to discuss about this ticket?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:59:00
Let's move on if not.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:59:10
!info #186: CJK relative font priorities (petersen)
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
07:59:11
!link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/186
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:00:20
Kan-Ru Chen: actually I added the pagure link now under #Feedback but feel free to edit of course
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:01:38
Jens Petersen: So do you want to say something about it?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:01:44
ah
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:02:28
Well yes and no I guess... wondering what could be done
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:04:18
that sounds like a Qt issue though.
<@kanru:wara.tw>
08:04:19
It looks like it needs Desktop environment support. As I also primarily use LC_ALL=en_US I found the same thing annoying. Maybe that could be an install/boot time option but changing it would need config change.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:04:46
Yeah I agree
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:05:33
It is probably hard to get perfect solution but at least for GNOME/Gtk perhaps as a start
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:05:53
Well, there are some limitation to deal with non-rich text on en locale. there are no way to determine what those glyphs are supposed to be. there are some envvar to manage it but not in UI.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:06:25
Right, so that is the topic here one can say
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:06:40
What kind if UI could be possible
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:06:45
What kind of UI could be possible
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:06:53
That may be non-rich text specific issue right.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:07:39
Can you say about on "non-rich text" ?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:07:44
Can you say more about on "non-rich text" ?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:08:00
like something on a plain text editor
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:08:05
Ah no lang markup right
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:08:10
Yes
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:08:16
Right right
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:08:47
So is pango the right place to handle this?
<@pwu:fedora.im>
08:09:30
There is some PANGO_LANGUAGE environment variable.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:09:32
Yes and no? actually Pango has something but it won't work if application doesn't give anything.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:10:37
more likely an application issue. e.g. if we want to make it better on gnome-text-editor, we need something in gnome-text-editor.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:10:57
Maybe some gsettings variant of PANGO_LANGUAGE?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:11:52
Hmm dunno if dynamically handling is realistic though
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:12:44
The most primitive thing would be to set PANGO_LANGUAGE in the Language/Region pane
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:12:51
dunno. if we want to do something with gsettings, we need to modify gtk?
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:13:03
Maybe
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:13:25
Language changes need restart again, hehe
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:13:34
Language changes need restart away, hehe
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:14:37
Dunno if there is some GNOMEy place to keep the envvar
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:15:01
and maybe pango too; I don't think PANGO_LANGUAGE related things are implemented as API
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:15:15
Right
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:15:26
Maybe we need to talk to the GNOME people
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:15:37
Right
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:15:49
Most apps don't like changing fonts anyway I feel
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:16:46
Alternatively in Fedora we could try to setup PANGO_LANGUAGE early on, possibly hmm - like Kan-Ru Chen also suggested
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:17:28
But getting to wider solution firefox would have to look at the envvar - I assume it doesn't??
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:17:51
Not much idea about Qt
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:17:54
But how? it may be a sort of user's interaction. it can't be done automatically because we can't rely on current locale. otherwise it should works without it.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:18:35
Well maybe some advanced setting in anaconda or gnome-initial-setup/gnome-control-center
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:19:27
Well a simple PoC would be to make a config tool to generate the PANGO_LANGUAGE=...
<@kanru:wara.tw>
08:20:15
Like "Preferred glyph variant for CJK unified ideographs"
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:20:26
Yea
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:21:26
We need a workaround like that for Qt.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:21:58
Yes that would be good
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:22:45
spending a lot of time on the meeting, let's keep a discussion. not yet sure what should be the next step for this though.
<@juhp:matrix.org>
08:23:06
sure
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:23:19
!topic Open Floor
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:23:35
Anything else we want to discuss in this meeting?
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:25:12
Alright. let's stop here then.
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:25:31
Thanks everyone for the long meeting!
<@tagoh:matrix.org>
08:25:37
!endmeeting