15:01:57 <Kevin_Kofler> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting 15:01:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 7 15:01:57 2014 UTC. The chair is Kevin_Kofler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:01:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:01 <Kevin_Kofler> #meetingname kde-sig 15:02:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig' 15:02:06 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Roll call 15:02:18 * jgrulich is present 15:02:50 * Kevin_Kofler obviously is, too. :-) 15:02:54 <tosky> hi 15:03:14 <pino|work> me 15:03:25 * jreznik is around 15:03:53 <heliocastro> hello 15:04:45 <than> present 15:05:18 <rdieter> here 15:06:21 <dvratil> hi 15:06:24 <danofsatx-dt> here 15:06:39 <mbriza> hey 15:07:19 <Kevin_Kofler> #chair jgrulich tosky pino|work jreznik heliocastro than rdieter dvratil danofsatx-dt mbriza 15:07:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler danofsatx-dt dvratil heliocastro jgrulich jreznik mbriza pino|work rdieter than tosky 15:07:38 <Kevin_Kofler> #info Kevin_Kofler, jgrulich, tosky, pino|work, jreznik, heliocastro, than, rdieter, dvratil, danofsatx-dt, mbriza present. 15:07:45 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Agenda 15:08:02 <Kevin_Kofler> Topic #1 for this week's meeting needs to be approving the live image size increase, or coming up with a solution to make the old limit. 15:08:09 <Kevin_Kofler> Anything else to discuss this week? 15:09:06 <dvratil> I can give KF5/Plasma5 update 15:09:47 <Kevin_Kofler> OK. 15:09:57 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic live image size limit 15:10:06 <Kevin_Kofler> So, what do we do to the size limit of our live images? 15:10:42 <Kevin_Kofler> The current limit is 1 000 000 000 bytes, and we are exceeding that limit in some composes, probably soon in all (new SDDM dragging in Qt 5). 15:11:16 <heliocastro> live images will contain both kde 4 and kf 5 ? 15:11:20 <Kevin_Kofler> There was a proposal discussed to bump the limit to 1 400 000 000 bytes, which is the guaranteed size of a MiniDVD (some guarantee more, like 1 460 000 000, but probably not all, so 1 400 000 000 is safest). 15:11:30 <rdieter> +1 to bump to 1.4gb 15:11:38 <Kevin_Kofler> heliocastro: For F21, only the parts dragged in by SDDM. 15:11:41 <jgrulich> +1 15:11:51 <heliocastro> +1 bump 15:11:52 <pino|work> +1 what rdieter said 15:12:30 <Kevin_Kofler> So, what do the other voting members say? 15:13:02 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm not too happy about the size increase (yet another one!), but I also don't have a real alternative plan. 15:13:18 <Kevin_Kofler> So I'd tend towards abstaining (0 vote). 15:13:52 <than> +1 for 1.4gb 15:13:59 <dvratil> +1 for bump 15:14:19 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we need one more (heliocastro is not in the list of voting members, is he?). 15:15:11 <tosky> uhm, +1 from me too, I can vote for a reduction if some new solution comes out 15:15:22 <heliocastro> Can i be in the list ? 15:15:59 <ltinkl> +1 for 1.4 15:16:51 <Kevin_Kofler> heliocastro: We should probably kick out somebody else then. ;-) 11 voting members should be enough. 15:17:08 <Kevin_Kofler> Can we have that discussion another day? 15:17:24 <heliocastro> yep 15:17:45 <Kevin_Kofler> But yes, it makes sense to have you in the WG, noted. :-) 15:18:12 <Kevin_Kofler> For this one, I think we have an agreement. 15:18:19 <jreznik> +1 for 1.4 as commented in the bug 15:18:21 <Kevin_Kofler> (for this proposal) 15:19:07 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: you can kick me out, I'm really not very good member last few months :( 15:19:25 <Kevin_Kofler> #agreed The live image size limit for the KDE images is increased from 1 GB (1 000 000 000 bytes) to 1.4 GB (1 400 000 000 bytes). (+7, 1 abstention, 3 absent) 15:20:04 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic KF5/Plasma5 update 15:20:06 <danofsatx-dt> sorry, I'm +1 on that also 15:20:18 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: could you please update bug with this agreement? 15:20:21 <Kevin_Kofler> #undo 15:20:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2c746a50> 15:20:22 <danofsatx-dt> (bosses walked in for an impromptu meeting) 15:20:23 <Kevin_Kofler> #undo 15:20:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by Kevin_Kofler at 15:19:25 : The live image size limit for the KDE images is increased from 1 GB (1 000 000 000 bytes) to 1.4 GB (1 400 000 000 bytes). (+7, 1 abstention, 3 absent) 15:20:30 <Kevin_Kofler> #agreed The live image size limit for the KDE images is increased from 1 GB (1 000 000 000 bytes) to 1.4 GB (1 400 000 000 bytes). (+8, 1 abstention, 2 absent) 15:20:33 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic KF5/Plasma5 update 15:20:44 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: Will do. 15:20:52 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: Your turn. 15:21:15 <dvratil> I'm building KF5 5.3.0 for rawhide as we speak (rdieter, I'll need f20-kde and f21-kde targets tomorrow pretty please :-) 15:21:36 <dvratil> we now have KF5 available in F20, F21 and rawhide, so I have removed the KF5 COPR 15:21:37 <rdieter> dvratil: I'll add 'em now 15:21:41 <rdieter> (so I don't forget) 15:21:44 <dvratil> thanks 15:22:17 * rdieter will clear f20-kde, f21-kde tags too 15:22:50 <dvratil> and Plasma 5.1 is coming next week (or the week after, so yay!) 15:23:44 <dvratil> and I also started working on plasma-5-unstable COPR (finally) that will contain packages with Plasma 5 apps that don't have yet stable releases - so mostly snapshots from "frameworks" branch in git - Dolphin, KMix, Gwenview, Konversation, Konqueror, Rekonq 15:24:05 <pino|work> (okular) 15:24:13 <dvratil> pino|work, yep, thanks 15:24:30 <jgrulich> dvratil: kate, kdevelop 15:24:38 <dvratil> Kate can be 15:24:45 <dvratil> not sure about kdevelop 15:25:01 <dvratil> kdevelop requires konsole and having konsole requires all apps that embed konsolepart to be KF5 too 15:25:09 <dvratil> and some of the might still be crashy 15:25:12 <Kevin_Kofler> #info KF5 now available in F20, F21 and Rawhide, KF5 Copr removed. KF5.3.0 building for Rawhide now. 15:25:17 <dvratil> even kdevelop from KF5 is rather crashy 15:25:32 <Kevin_Kofler> #info Plasma 5.1 is coming next week (or the week after, so yay!) 15:25:45 <Kevin_Kofler> #info dvratil also started working on plasma-5-unstable COPR (finally) that will contain packages with Plasma 5 apps that don't have yet stable releases - so mostly snapshots from "frameworks" branch in git - Dolphin, KMix, Gwenview, Konversation, Konqueror, Rekonq 15:25:47 <tosky> dvratil: but they are not "plasma" apps 15:26:01 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: That should summarize the essential stuff for the meeting summary. :-) 15:26:10 <dvratil> Kevin_Kofler: thanks 15:26:21 <jgrulich> dvratil: I can definitely help you with packaging that stuff 15:26:27 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: For the KonsolePart, we need to make the 4 and 5 ones coexist. 15:26:30 <dvratil> tosky: true, it should be called kde-applications-5 or something, but blah - don't care for now 15:26:35 <Kevin_Kofler> In principle, it should work. 15:26:39 <Kevin_Kofler> The KParts install to all different paths. 15:26:50 <Kevin_Kofler> (at least for system-installed ones) 15:27:01 <Kevin_Kofler> If it's picking up the wrong ones, there's a bug somewhere that needs to be fixed. 15:27:16 <Kevin_Kofler> So we need a konsole4 compat package that installs only the KPart. 15:27:19 <dvratil> I need to test with current versions - I last tried a while ago, back then KF5 apps, when they did not find the KF5 build of KonsolePart tried to load KDE4 and boom 15:28:00 <Kevin_Kofler> The KParts will have to coexist for a long time to come. 15:28:22 <danofsatx-dt> Is there a how-to write up anywhere for converting to KF5? 15:28:24 <dvratil> depends 15:28:43 <dvratil> danofsatx-dt: techbase.k.o and community.k.o 15:29:04 <danofsatx-dt> can we point to those in the fedwiki? 15:29:52 <dvratil> Kevin_Kofler: we need the KParts only if we ship any apps that depend on them, so "long time" might not be precise :) 15:29:54 <rdieter> danofsatx-dt: sure, where appropriate 15:31:02 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: We still have stuff that depends on the KDE 3 KatePart (at least Quanta). 15:31:12 <Kevin_Kofler> So it could be a VERY long time. 15:31:53 <heliocastro> Question, someone argued about linux-lsb ? 15:32:21 <dvratil> unfortunately KParts being run-time dependency, it's hard to check which packages actually depend on which KParts :( 15:33:05 <ltinkl> ye that's the whole point of plugin-based architecture :) 15:33:12 <heliocastro> dvratil: Maybe we can write a tool to do this ? 15:33:46 <dvratil> heliocastro: of course we can :-) question is who has to time to do that :-P 15:34:19 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: The RPMs should have explicit runtime Requires on required KParts, if they don't → https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ :-) 15:34:40 <tosky> ehm, but then konqueror should depend on everything 15:34:41 <dvratil> Kevin_Kofler: problem is that you have kparts in packages like kde-workspace or kde-runtime 15:34:46 * rdieter has several packages that Requires: konsole-part 15:34:52 <dvratil> which is not very conclusive 15:35:16 <rdieter> and, kate-part 15:35:42 <Kevin_Kofler> dvratil: Even those need runtime Requires. 15:35:47 <Kevin_Kofler> And what KParts are in workspace? 15:35:55 <Kevin_Kofler> I'd hope we don't need a kde-workspace4… 15:36:30 * dvratil does not have kde-workspace installed anymore 15:36:35 <rdieter> we'll find out 15:36:49 <ltinkl> rdieter: so what is another application also provides a terminal emulator part? 15:37:01 <heliocastro> yakuake ? 15:37:05 <ltinkl> this isn't a about konsole or kate specifically 15:37:06 <rdieter> -workspace has kfontviewpart , the only one I see 15:37:23 <rdieter> heliocastro: yakuake uses konsole-part 15:37:39 <rdieter> ltinkl: I'm not aware of any others 15:38:05 <rdieter> anyway, if anyone is curious, you can see for yourself: 15:38:06 <Kevin_Kofler> ltinkl: The apps request the KonsolePart by name. 15:38:19 <heliocastro> There's okularPart 15:38:22 <rdieter> repoquery --whatrequires kate-part or repoquery --whatrequires konsole-part 15:38:24 <Kevin_Kofler> It doesn't work on a document, so there isn't a way to request it by mimetype. 15:39:18 <rdieter> heliocastro: yep (we have a okular-part subpkg too) 15:39:52 <rdieter> it may be fun to track all the consumers of these various parts though (those that don't already have dependencies). I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later 15:41:20 * rdieter has to go 15:41:22 * rdieter waves, bye 15:41:55 <heliocastro> o/ 15:42:03 <rdieter> repoquery --whatprovides \*-part , to see which various packages either have an explicit -part subpkg, or Provides: one 15:42:24 <rdieter> others include: ark, cantor, marble 15:42:29 <Kevin_Kofler> heliocastro: What about linux-lsb? Sorry, I haven't followed the discussion you refer to. 15:42:46 <heliocastro> redhat-lsb still requires qt3 15:42:53 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Then of course it needs to be decided what needs a compat package and what not. 15:43:05 <heliocastro> Ans i don't know if we can do somethng on that part 15:43:09 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't think we need a cantor4-part, but maybe marble. 15:43:22 <Kevin_Kofler> heliocastro: That's the definition of the LSB. 15:43:39 <Kevin_Kofler> Nothing should require redhat-lsb in Fedora, if something does, the dependency bloat is there. 15:43:58 <heliocastro> at least i know one annoying guy, chrome 15:44:04 <heliocastro> But is external anyway 15:44:47 <Kevin_Kofler> (I've seen something from Fedora drag in redhat-lsb recently, I should probably file a bug. I think it was "ceph". In any case, it was something that used to be a dependency of qemu, but now only the libs are required. My old installation had the whole thing that dragged in the LSB stuff.) 15:45:03 <Kevin_Kofler> Chrome, we have no control over, sorry. 15:46:44 <heliocastro> But i mean from our side we can push to review this 15:47:09 <heliocastro> I know is a long process, but qt3 even is not supported 15:47:26 <Kevin_Kofler> qt3 is not going away anyway. 15:47:43 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm keeping it working, LSB or not. 15:47:51 <Kevin_Kofler> (Frankly, I don't give a darn about the LSB.) 15:48:36 <danofsatx-dt> for the uninitiated (or old farts like me with no memory), what's LSB again? 15:48:41 <drago01> fwiw gnome-software considers qt3 (and gtk1) "legacy toolkits" and don't show such apps 15:48:46 <heliocastro> Linux Standard Base 15:48:46 <Kevin_Kofler> Linux Standards Base 15:49:28 <danofsatx-dt> roger....thanks 15:49:45 <Kevin_Kofler> It's a set of libraries with fixed ABIs that binary (usually binary-only) packages can depend on. 15:50:25 <heliocastro> Ok,so nothing we can do 15:50:28 <Kevin_Kofler> Somebody decided to include Qt, but that was when Qt 3 was current. 15:50:54 <Kevin_Kofler> Now we have Qt 5, but the LSB moves really slowly, if it even still moves at all. 15:51:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Proprietary software developers don't want to upgrade to new libraries, ever. 15:51:33 <Kevin_Kofler> They'd still use Qt 1 if they could. 15:52:30 <Kevin_Kofler> The only thing we could do is try to get the LSB to release a new version of the LSB. 15:52:45 <Kevin_Kofler> But then we'd still have a lot of stuff targeting the old version that we'd have to deal with. 15:52:59 <Kevin_Kofler> (unless we decide that we just don't care) 15:53:36 <Kevin_Kofler> But that's really a Fedora-wide decision. 15:53:55 <Kevin_Kofler> And these days Workstation actually has compatibility with third-party binary-only stuff as a goal. :-( 15:54:10 * Kevin_Kofler thinks that should be a total non-goal for Fedora. 15:56:59 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Open discussion 15:57:06 <Kevin_Kofler> So, anything else before I close the meeting? 15:57:49 <danofsatx-dt> nothing from the peanut gallery 16:00:17 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, thanks all for coming! 16:00:19 <Kevin_Kofler> #endmeeting