15:02:17 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig 15:02:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 15:02:17 2016 UTC. The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig' 15:02:25 <rdieter> #topic roll call 15:02:33 <rdieter> hi all, friendly kde-sig meeting about to start, who's present today? 15:02:57 <lupinix> .hello lupinix 15:02:59 <zodbot> lupinix: lupinix 'Christian Dersch' <lupinix@mailbox.org> 15:03:24 <tosky> hi 15:03:43 <pino|work> hi 15:05:11 <rdieter> #info rdieter lupinix tosky pino|work present 15:05:15 <rdieter> #chair lupinix tosky pino|work 15:05:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky 15:05:42 <dvratil> hi 15:05:59 <rdieter> hola 15:06:43 <rdieter> #info dvratil present 15:06:45 <rdieter> #chair dvratil 15:06:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky 15:07:01 * jreznik_ is here 15:07:06 <jreznik_> hi 15:07:19 * pino|work offers jreznik_ a beer 15:07:23 <rdieter> #info jreznik_ present 15:07:24 <rdieter> #chair jreznik_ 15:07:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky 15:07:35 <rdieter> ok, let's gather topics 15:07:39 <rdieter> #topic agenda 15:07:57 <rdieter> what to discuss today? I can give status kf5/plasma bodhi updates 15:08:20 <tosky> what was the feedback so far? I couldn't try them yet 15:08:32 <lupinix> i remember some discussion whether we use breeze-gtk as default 15:08:53 <lupinix> plasma 5.8 is really awesome 15:09:05 <lupinix> especially multiscreen stuff is fixed (at least for me) 15:09:49 <rdieter> ok, let's start with that 15:10:03 <rdieter> #topic kf5-5.27/plasma-5.8 status updates 15:10:31 <rdieter> so, plasma-5.8.0 went to f25 recently, kf5-5.27.0 submitted for f25 -testing earlier today 15:10:40 <rdieter> tosky: good feedback so far 15:10:46 <rdieter> really good, actually 15:11:30 <tosky> as I mentioned earlier, 5.8.1 should be tagged today 15:11:33 <lupinix> imho we should think about 5.8 in f24 too, as it works really fine and is also LTS 15:11:33 <rdieter> waiting for 5.8.1 (tarballs landing today?) before doing any official f24 (or maybe f23 too) builds 15:11:35 <tosky> upstream, I mean 15:11:59 <lupinix> https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.8.1.php already announced 15:12:01 <jreznik_> if it's tagged today, I'd wait for it with final release 15:12:41 <rdieter> lupinix: heh, ok 15:13:08 <rdieter> anyway, I think doing plasma-5.8.x for f24 would definitely be a good thing (but due to theming changes requires a little extra work) 15:13:18 <rdieter> for f23, I'm less certain 15:13:41 <lupinix> well, f23 will die in december… (if everything works well with f25 shedule) 15:13:48 <jreznik_> yeah, I'm for f24, f23 is over 15:15:13 <rdieter> ok, no plasma-5.8 for f23... for now 15:16:10 <rdieter> notable breeze theming changes include: sddm theme, plasma lock/new-session screens 15:16:22 <rdieter> and minimalistic ksplash 15:16:46 <rdieter> (now essentially just animating K logo on black background) 15:16:59 <mbriza> hello, sorry for coming late 15:17:02 * lupinix likes it 15:17:07 <rdieter> #info mbriza present 15:17:09 <rdieter> mbriza: hi 15:17:13 <rdieter> #chair mbrize 15:17:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbrize pino|work rdieter tosky 15:17:21 <rdieter> #undo 15:17:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by rdieter at 15:17:07 : mbriza present 15:17:28 <rdieter> #chair mbriza 15:17:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbriza mbrize pino|work rdieter tosky 15:17:32 <rdieter> #info mbriza present 15:17:37 <rdieter> heh 15:17:44 <pino|work> your undo removed the info 15:18:17 <rdieter> as lupinix mentionned, plasma-5.8 touts unified theming, so (apparently) breeze-gtk is more recommended for use now 15:18:33 <rdieter> any objection to tweaking kde-settings to use that by default on f25+ ? 15:18:56 <pino|work> that's the default, but still can be changed, right? 15:18:57 <rdieter> my only qualm is this is a bit late in f25 dev-cycle for it 15:19:06 * lupinix uses it now for some days again, works fine so fare 15:19:07 <rdieter> pino|work: yes, of course 15:19:08 <lupinix> *far 15:19:19 <pino|work> ok 15:19:26 <rdieter> current default is adwaita 15:20:36 <Kevin_Kofler> IMHO, as long as you ship GTK+ apps on the spin, you ought to include the proper theme for them. 15:20:57 <Kevin_Kofler> This should have always been the default, no matter whether upstream recommended it or not. 15:21:14 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: duly noted 15:21:47 <rdieter> ok, sounds like no objections? If not, I'll work to implement that after meeting 15:21:59 <lupinix> go on :) 15:22:01 <pino|work> +1 15:22:01 <lupinix> rdieter++ 15:22:11 <mbriza> +1 15:22:27 <rdieter> so, as far as kf5-5.27 updates are concerned, currently queue'd for f25 -testing, https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-1fcec97130 15:22:42 <rdieter> though than plans on adding some pim-related CVE fixes to it 15:23:06 <rdieter> we'll do similar batched kf5-5.27.0 updates for f23/f24/epel7 soonish too 15:24:41 <rdieter> oh, one more f25+ specific item: for f25 and future releases, I opted for a simpler theming approach than before 15:25:05 <rdieter> previously, we'd made a custom per-release plasma/lookandfeel in f24-kde-theme, f23-kde-theme, for example 15:25:37 <rdieter> moving forward, using a single plasma-lookandfeel-fedora, which will always simply use the "default" distro wallpaper 15:25:47 <rdieter> (and system logos) 15:26:13 <rdieter> ie, will use whatever /usr/share/backgrounds/default.png points to 15:27:26 <tosky> so previously the wallpaper matched the "default" distro wallpaper, but it was copied, or it was different? 15:27:28 <rdieter> hopefully means less work for next f26 release 15:27:28 <tibbs> That does seem to be much easier from a maintenance standpoint. 15:27:51 <rdieter> tosky: before, we'd hard-code f24 or f23 15:28:03 <pino|work> indeed, wasn't the default wallpaper already matching the distro theme? o.O 15:28:11 <rdieter> only folks noticing any difference may be f24->f25 upgrades 15:28:25 <rdieter> before upgraders would keep the same f24 theme, for example 15:28:40 <rdieter> now upgraders will (kinda) get the new stuff 15:28:42 <tosky> aah, yeah, I remember now 15:28:45 <pino|work> ah 15:28:57 <rdieter> I say kinda, because plasma stuff is set on first login 15:29:37 <rdieter> this way is a little less flexible too, means we have less options when it comes to theming too 15:29:53 <rdieter> (but hopefully isn't a problem, since we only vary minimally from upstream defaults) 15:30:23 <Kevin_Kofler> I think it makes sense to not have a new Fedora Twenty Something theme at every release. 15:31:23 <rdieter> <nod>, kinda wonder why I hadn't considered this earlier. <shrug>, I think partly because I didn't understand how it all worked as well before either 15:31:25 <tosky> if it become complicated, or a certain version will require more customization, a specific package can still be introduced, I guess 15:31:35 <rdieter> yeah 15:32:50 <jreznik_> the reason we had this fxx theme was that some people wanted old themes to be available... 15:34:06 <rdieter> jreznik_: I can see that... a little, though since the only difference really is wallpaper, .. changing to and using old wallpapers is already possible, without having to create custom lookandfeel for it 15:34:26 <tibbs> Is it really only the wallpaper that changes between releases? 15:34:40 <rdieter> tibbs: yep 15:34:44 <lupinix> i think so 15:34:58 <than> present 15:35:02 <rdieter> #info than present 15:35:05 <rdieter> #chair than 15:35:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbriza mbrize pino|work rdieter than tosky 15:35:14 <jreznik_> rdieter: yeah, in the past we had more differences aka own ksplash theme, kdm theme but now it makes sense just to reuse new wp 15:35:23 <rdieter> jreznik_: true 15:36:09 <rdieter> since distro backgrounds always land late, we end up making themes at the last minute 15:36:27 <rdieter> not worth the extra pain and suffering 15:36:34 <jreznik_> I enjoyed it but it was always too late and too much pain 15:36:45 <rdieter> jreznik_: +1, exactly 15:36:46 <tibbs> I guess some might complain because we don't have Fedora-specific branding or something, but the menu icon is more than enough for me. 15:38:19 <rdieter> anything else on kf5 or plasma5 status topics 15:38:21 <rdieter> ? 15:38:22 <jreznik_> tibbs: it always depends on what theming upstream comes with :) 15:38:23 <lupinix> nope 15:38:32 <lupinix> (@rdieter) 15:38:32 <rdieter> #topic open discussion 15:38:38 <rdieter> ok, anything else to discuss today? 15:38:48 <lupinix> nothing here 15:38:52 <tosky> small notice: (even if it is kind of complicated topic) 15:38:52 <jreznik_> I'm good 15:39:15 <tosky> upstream Plasma sent out an email about "please test *applications* on Wayland and report the results" 15:39:48 <tosky> this is more for application developers, but still: https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2016q4/003141.html 15:39:54 <rdieter> I do recall seeing a few (mostly crasher) bugs this past week about apps misbehaving on wayland 15:40:04 <lupinix> i'm already using it with wayland on one machine, works fine 15:40:33 <lupinix> except qupzilla, Kevin_Kofler imho we should enforce qupzilla to start as X application, otherwise it crashes 15:40:33 <tosky> yes, Martin Graesslin mentioned some bugs in QtWayland during Akademy; Qt is more aware now 15:40:35 <jreznik_> mostly usable but slooow, kwin eats a lot of cpu 15:41:00 <Kevin_Kofler> QtWebEngine doesn't support Wayland yet, that is blocking on Chromium, really. 15:41:03 <mbriza> it's possible to run the applications in gnome/wayland too :) 15:41:13 <lupinix> jreznik_: which graphic chipset? 15:41:29 <lupinix> i recognized this with radeon some time ago, was fine with intel 15:41:36 <Kevin_Kofler> You need to build Chromium with Ozone and Ozone-Wayland to get it working on Wayland, and then it won't work on X11 anymore, so not a good plan. 15:41:46 <Kevin_Kofler> There is work going on on an Ozone-X11 backend. 15:41:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Ozone supports switching the backend at "runtime" (application start-up). 15:42:05 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: thanks for the reminder 15:42:14 <Kevin_Kofler> So when that is in, I guess QtWebEngine will be able to make it work. 15:42:29 <rdieter> I suppose that means all apps using QtWebEngine have that same problem, so kdepim (and friends) 15:42:36 <lupinix> can't we force qupzilla to use X even on wayland, not start is native wayland? 15:42:51 <Kevin_Kofler> For now, I guess we have to force xcb at startup of the relevant apps. 15:42:53 <rdieter> lupinix: you can firce it 15:43:10 <jreznik_> lupinix: intel 15:43:11 <Kevin_Kofler> It's an environment variable to set, it can be done programmatically. 15:43:14 <lupinix> Kevin_Kofler: although this is just a workaround 15:43:24 <Kevin_Kofler> But all the affected apps need to do it, not just QupZilla. 15:43:30 <rdieter> a workaround to avoid crashing, is very acceptable in my book 15:43:30 <lupinix> yes 15:43:48 * jreznik_ has to go now... 15:43:54 <Kevin_Kofler> I wonder if it could be done in some static initializer inside libQt5WebEngine. 15:44:12 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: that would be ideal (vs. patching all qtwebengine-using apps) 15:44:23 <rdieter> but either way is fine 15:44:37 <Kevin_Kofler> I'll ask about that in the upstream bug. 15:44:49 <Kevin_Kofler> If upstream doesn't answer, I'll try a downstream hack. 15:44:59 <rdieter> thanks 15:45:40 <Kevin_Kofler> Speaking of QtWebEngine, it'd be great if we could get the Nouveau locking fixes applied in the Fedora nouveau package. 15:45:47 <Kevin_Kofler> .bug 1376107 15:45:47 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1376107 15:45:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Bug 1376107 - kmail etc crash with 16.08.1 using nouveau 15:46:19 <Markus_KMi> 17:32 <jreznik_> the reason we had this fxx theme was that some people wanted old themes to be available... 15:46:19 <Markus_KMi> – store.kde.org 15:47:49 <Kevin_Kofler> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-54038?focusedCommentId=334106&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-334106 15:47:57 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: +1 there too, though I can understand not wanting to patch anything until the fixes are accepted upstream first 15:49:09 <rdieter> anything else ? 15:49:49 <Kevin_Kofler> Calamares 2.4.1 is now headed to F24 stable updates. 15:49:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Finally a modern version of Calamares. 15:50:01 <lupinix> Kevin_Kofler++ 15:50:01 <zodbot> lupinix: Karma for kkofler changed to 3 (for the f24 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 15:50:05 <lupinix> will test soon 15:50:31 <lupinix> have to prepare customized installation images for university anyway 15:50:55 <Kevin_Kofler> LUKS full disk encryption with Calamares is not supported on Fedora (dracut) yet, but as far as I can tell, not that much is missing. 15:51:13 <Kevin_Kofler> So I hope that I'll have an update with that for testing soon, too. 15:51:25 <rdieter> <offtopic>my pokemon go pokedex is complete as of this weekend (minus legendary and geographic-specific ones of course)</offtopic> (last one was chancey) 15:51:38 <lupinix> :D 15:52:02 <Markus_KMi> the Plymouth Breeze theme is easily tweakable 15:52:03 * lupinix still plays pokemon using his shiny game boy color :P 15:52:10 <Markus_KMi> in case anybody cares 15:52:16 <tosky> rdieter: oooooooooooooooooooooh 15:52:57 <rdieter> Markus_KMi: I'm not aware of anyone testing that much, someday we probably should try harder, and consider using it by default on kde spin 15:53:36 <Markus_KMi> is there a monochrome Fedora logo somewhere? 15:53:46 <Markus_KMi> or should I make one myself? 15:54:36 <rdieter> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines 15:54:45 <rdieter> Markus_KMi: I see some options there 15:55:12 <Markus_KMi> the theme comes with Plasma, Neon, and openSUSE logos by default. I did not read the guidelines yet but if upstreaming was possible, it'd be great 15:55:33 <rdieter> not sure if the monochrome one is packaged and installed anywhere by default though 15:56:22 <Kevin_Kofler> Upstreaming the logo is not possible. 15:56:35 <Markus_KMi> "Request the Fedora Logo Files"… 15:56:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Even in Fedora, packages other than fedora-logos are not allowed to carry it. 15:56:45 <Markus_KMi> not even a public download 15:56:46 <Markus_KMi> me 15:56:49 <Markus_KMi> h 15:57:01 <Kevin_Kofler> A Fedora Remix must not contain any copy of the logo, let alone other distros / operating systems. 15:57:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Blame Red Hat Legal for the restrictive trademark policies. 15:57:21 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE has a much saner policy. 15:57:32 <rdieter> s/Red Hat Legal/trademark law/ 15:57:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Other projects are bound by the same laws and have more permissive policies. 15:58:17 <rdieter> they apparently don't care as much about protecting it 15:58:20 <Kevin_Kofler> Mozilla is the main other offender. 15:59:12 <rdieter> easy to criticize if you don't understand the rules 15:59:24 <pino|work> ba-dum-tss 15:59:39 * lupinix has to leave now 15:59:41 <lupinix> bye 15:59:56 <rdieter> we're out of time anyway, thanks everyone 16:00:00 <rdieter> #endmeeting