12:59:59 <sgallagh> #startmeeting rolekit (2015-10-13)
13:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 13 12:59:59 2015 UTC.  The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:00 <sgallagh> #meetingname rolekitweekly
13:00:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'rolekitweekly'
13:00:00 <sgallagh> #chair sgallagh twoerner nilsph
13:00:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: nilsph sgallagh twoerner
13:00:00 <sgallagh> #topic init process
13:00:11 <sgallagh> Good morning folks.
13:00:14 <twoerner> .hello twoerner
13:00:15 <zodbot> twoerner: twoerner 'Thomas Woerner' <twoerner@redhat.com>
13:00:18 <nilsph> .hello nphilipp
13:00:19 <zodbot> nilsph: nphilipp 'Nils Philippsen' <nphilipp@redhat.com>
13:00:56 <sgallagh> Looks like everyone is here
13:01:00 <sgallagh> #topic Agenda
13:01:24 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Fedora 23 Final Steps
13:01:33 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: Fedora 24 Planning
13:01:55 <sgallagh> Any other topics for the agenda?
13:02:22 <twoerner> nothing from me atm
13:02:52 <sgallagh> #topic Fedora 23 Final Steps
13:03:06 <sgallagh> #info Fedora 23 entered Final Freeze as of midnight UTC today
13:03:21 <sgallagh> Unfortunately, rolekit 0.4.0.1 is still in updates-testing.
13:03:30 <twoerner> oh, bad
13:03:45 <sgallagh> I proposed it for a Freeze Exception on the grounds that the anaconda support is only useful if it's part of the frozen package set.
13:04:03 <sgallagh> In order to get that approved, I *really* need you two to test the latest package and give it karma.
13:04:50 <sgallagh> It's more likely to be approved as an FE that way
13:05:25 <twoerner> ok.. do you have a set of test we should do?
13:05:30 <twoerner> tests
13:05:56 <sgallagh> twoerner: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Server_Test
13:06:08 <sgallagh> There are a couple basic tests there for rolekit
13:06:17 <sgallagh> That, plus deploy at least one role from kickstart, please
13:06:43 <twoerner> ohh.. from kickstart... :-)
13:06:53 <sgallagh> You'll need to tweak the kickstart file to pull the package in from another repo somewhere.
13:06:54 <sgallagh> Since it's not on the media
13:07:54 <sgallagh> #action twoerner and nilsph to test the rolekit-0.4.0.1 package and provide karma in Bodhi
13:08:05 <twoerner> what is the karma atm?
13:08:10 <sgallagh> twoerner: 0
13:08:11 <nilsph> 0 presumably
13:08:15 <twoerner> oups!
13:08:30 <twoerner> it seems there are no testers for server outthere
13:08:54 <sgallagh> Note, F24 TC6 didn't build Server due to a bug, so use the TC1 images to test for now.
13:09:15 <sgallagh> twoerner: rolekit usually only gets testing during release validation, which is unfortunate.
13:09:28 <sgallagh> That's why we need to be better at doing so ourselves :)
13:10:04 <nilsph> F24?
13:10:25 <twoerner> sgallagh: will you also test?
13:10:38 <sgallagh> twoerner: Of course, but I can't give karma since I filed the update
13:10:47 <twoerner> ok :-)
13:11:19 <sgallagh> I always run through all the release validation tests every milestone.
13:11:49 <sgallagh> As soon as TC7 is out, I'll be doing that.
13:12:00 <twoerner> do you have a link to the TC1 iso?
13:12:09 <sgallagh> http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/
13:12:15 <nilsph> twoerner: netinst or complete DVD?
13:12:21 <sgallagh> Or rather: http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/23_TC1/Server/
13:12:30 <nilsph> here's the directory https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/23_TC1/Server/x86_64/iso/
13:12:50 <sgallagh> nilsph: Ideally, split the work and each do one of the two.
13:12:50 <twoerner> yes, thanks
13:13:07 <nilsph> do we have any KS files from which to start?
13:13:28 <sgallagh> nilsph: https://sgallagh.fedorapeople.org/kickstarts/f23/dc.ks
13:13:36 <sgallagh> I used that one for F23 Beta testing
13:13:43 <sgallagh> You will need to tweak it
13:13:51 <nilsph> to pickup the new rolekit
13:14:09 <sgallagh> Which reminds me, let me add the latest package to that COPR
13:14:13 <sgallagh> so you can just use that repo
13:14:24 <twoerner> sgallagh: that would be great
13:14:48 <nilsph> sgallagh: uhm s/rawhide/f23/ there?
13:15:23 <sgallagh> nilsph: Yes, there was no F23 build for COPR when I created that
13:15:25 <nilsph> twoerner: which one do you want to test?
13:15:32 <sgallagh> It's available now and I'm building it that way
13:15:45 <nilsph> I mean they shouldn't make much difference, should they?
13:16:20 <sgallagh> nilsph: No, they shouldn't
13:16:36 <sgallagh> "should" is my least-favorite word. We have a long history :)
13:17:06 <twoerner> nilsph: are you talking about full DVD or netinstall?
13:17:14 <nilsph> twoerner: yes
13:17:48 <twoerner> nilsph: I would push the tree on my PXE/TFTP server for simple installation maybe
13:18:01 <twoerner> but I could also use the DVD or netinstall..
13:18:04 <nilsph> twoerner: ok, I'll grab one of the ISOs then
13:18:08 <twoerner> the line here is fast...
13:19:03 <sgallagh> OK, so let's move on to F24 planning.
13:19:18 <sgallagh> Feel free to ping me at any time if you have trouble with the testing
13:19:38 <sgallagh> #topic Fedora 24 Planning
13:20:22 <sgallagh> I'm still working on getting a clear directive from our consumers on what new features we need
13:20:33 <sgallagh> But there are a couple that are very clear and should be prioritized.
13:21:21 <sgallagh> 1) Job-control / progress monitoring
13:22:00 <sgallagh> This is pretty much critical for us to achieve adoption. So that's P0 in my mind.
13:22:52 <sgallagh> 2) Firewall control based on deployment settings rather than role defaults
13:23:37 <sgallagh> 3) Out-of-tree role creation (including walkthrough documentation)
13:24:44 <sgallagh> So those three things are fundamental. There are not yet any clearly-defined new roles for this cycle, but I hope to have something on that for next week.
13:25:36 <sgallagh> Conveniently, there are three high-level tasks and three developers around :)
13:26:18 <sgallagh> (Item 3 will be slightly dependent upon Item 2, but can be worked on in parallel)
13:27:04 <twoerner> it would be needed to define exactly what should be possible and forbidden
13:27:22 <sgallagh> twoerner: "it" being the role creation documentation?
13:27:27 <nilsph> is there a document that fleshes these three requirements out a bit?
13:27:40 <sgallagh> nilsph: Nope! ;-)
13:27:45 <sgallagh> Not yet, anyway
13:28:07 <sgallagh> Item 1) is going to involve a sit-down with the Cockpit folks who will be the first consumers of it.
13:28:21 <sgallagh> They've agreed to help us by providing requirements and mock-ups
13:28:57 <sgallagh> twoerner: Given that it's firmly in your wheelhouse, would you be okay taking on 2) ?
13:29:52 <sgallagh> twoerner: For reference, that's basically https://github.com/libre-server/rolekit/issues/7
13:29:53 <nilsph> Yeah, looking at the three who does what almost suggests itself.
13:30:01 <twoerner> yes
13:30:45 <sgallagh> nilsph: Actually, I was curious which of 1) or 3) you'd want to take on.
13:32:10 <nilsph> sgallagh: as I've still not yet wrapped my head around how we do async (and AIUI we want to change it anyway) I think I'd be more comfortable with 3) instead of 1)
13:32:36 <sgallagh> Works for me.
13:32:48 <sgallagh> nilsph: As for the async, I don't think we plan to change too much of it.
13:33:08 <nilsph> move from our own impl to what's in Py3k that's how I understood it
13:33:10 <sgallagh> There's a couple features in Python 3.4 that lets us simplify a bit, but it's functionally the same
13:33:26 <sgallagh> It will just read cleaner
13:33:47 <sgallagh> But I'm fine with having you take on the out-of-tree role stuff
13:33:47 <nilsph> but my understanding of async is found wanting, so... :)
13:33:56 <sgallagh> Works for me
13:34:00 <sgallagh> /me assigns issues
13:35:47 <sgallagh> nilsph: This may involve the creation of a -devel package and possibly working with the DevAssistant folks to get a framework in place for creating new roles.
13:35:59 <nilsph> mhm
13:36:11 <sgallagh> Right now it's kind of an "umbrella" ticket. We'll split it up into individual tasks as they become apparent
13:36:39 <nilsph> though I don't quite understand the need for a -devel package for something in Python
13:36:53 <sgallagh> nilsph: Well, that was probably not an accurate statement
13:37:02 <sgallagh> /me thinks in C terms a lot
13:37:28 <sgallagh> #action sgallagh to work on the job-control/progress monitoring feature
13:37:37 <nilsph> well, if we do something for devassistant, that stuff would go to -devel I think
13:37:41 <sgallagh> #action twoerner to work on the firewall configuration options
13:37:52 <sgallagh> #action nilsph to work on supporting out-of-tree role creation
13:38:12 <nilsph> but devassistant shouldn't be necessary for writing a new role, so... :)
13:38:18 <sgallagh> nilsph: I'm trusting you to figure that out and report back :)
13:38:39 <sgallagh> Right, it should not be necessary, but if we can make it really convenient that way, that would be a win for both projects.
13:38:47 <nilsph> of course
13:38:49 <sgallagh> (And would play nice with the Workstation crowd)
13:42:24 <sgallagh> #topic Open Floor
13:42:38 <sgallagh> That's all I had for an agenda today and there are no un-triaged issues.
13:42:42 <sgallagh> Anything for Open Floor?
13:44:17 <sgallagh> OK, I'll take that to be a "no".
13:44:19 <nilsph> I've looked into CI a small bit, what I told you before.
13:44:25 <sgallagh> Oh, right.
13:44:31 <sgallagh> #topic Continuous Integration
13:45:02 <nilsph> Maybe I missed something obvious, because I haven't set up CI frameworks before.
13:45:05 <sgallagh> So, I asked nilsph to look into what degree of CI we could set up to test both rolekit and by extension Fedora Server, since we exercise a fair amount of it.
13:45:16 <sgallagh> Yeah, neither have I
13:45:27 <sgallagh> But it seems to be How It's Done, these days.
13:46:00 <nilsph> You find bits and pieces for (or rather: against) integrating Vagrant and Jenkins or Travis CI, but they're mostly about problems people are experiencing.
13:46:28 <sgallagh> That reminds me; I need to check whether anyone unbroke Vagrant yet :)
13:46:34 <sgallagh> (on F23)
13:47:24 <nilsph> We should probably ask the QA guys who are working on CI on their side if they think there's an obvious way to test something in pre-defined VM images, because AIUI that's what we want to do re: CI.
13:47:29 <sgallagh> nilsph: Feel free to #info anything you've discovered
13:48:03 <nilsph> I'm tempted to # info "not much" but I think I'll keep myself in check for now :)
13:48:12 <sgallagh> Yeah, and discuss things with the Cockpit guys. They've got a framework that exercises a lot of Fedora; we might be able to pair up with them
13:48:19 <nilsph> yeah right
13:48:31 <sgallagh> ?
13:48:35 <nilsph> so, pick the brains of the cockpit and QA crowd
13:49:14 <nilsph> sgallagh: verbal confirmation that you mentioned this before ;)
13:49:24 <sgallagh> nilsph: (OK, just FYI, the phrase "yeah right" is always read in a sarcastic, passive-aggressive tone by Americans. So I parsed that as "not going to happen" at first)
13:50:03 <nilsph> sgallagh: figured that now.
13:50:10 <sgallagh> It's all good.
13:50:22 <sgallagh> OK, I have to get to another meeting in a few minutes.
13:50:23 <nilsph> Should have caught that earlier because it's similar for "Ja ja!" in German.
13:50:53 <sgallagh> #action nilsph to pick the brains of the Cockpit and QA crowd about CI
13:51:01 <sgallagh> OK, anything else this week?
13:51:31 <nilsph> not from me
13:51:36 <nilsph> twoerner: ?
13:52:21 <twoerner> let me read
13:52:28 <twoerner> some lines back
13:53:38 <twoerner> nothing more form me
13:53:46 <twoerner> more/additinal/
13:55:00 <sgallagh> OK.
13:55:09 <sgallagh> Thanks for coming, folks. I think we've got a plan for now.
13:56:03 <sgallagh> #endmeeting