22:35:42 <cmurf> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-04-28) 22:35:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 30 22:35:42 2020 UTC. 22:35:42 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 22:35:42 <zodbot> The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:35:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 22:35:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-04-28)' 22:35:44 <cmurf> #meetingname workstation 22:35:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 22:35:46 <cmurf> #chair chrismurphy 22:35:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: chrismurphy cmurf 22:36:08 <cmurf> #topic Rollcall 22:36:09 <cmurf> #info present: cmurf, tpopela, aday, mclasen, otaylor, mcatanzaro, jens, kalev, james, feborges, link 22:36:11 <cmurf> #info regrets: neal 22:36:13 <cmurf> #info missing: langdon 22:36:15 <cmurf> #topic Approve minutes of 14 & 21 April 22:36:17 <cmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-04-21/workstation.2020-04-21-13.07.html 22:36:19 <cmurf> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-04-24/workstation.2020-04-24-15.20.html 22:36:21 <cmurf> #agreed Approved - no objections 22:36:23 <cmurf> #topic Announcements 22:36:25 <cmurf> F32 release day 22:36:27 <cmurf> #info Fedora on Lenovo laptops; potential implications for the working group: 22:36:29 <cmurf> #link https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ 22:36:31 <cmurf> - First boot (initial setup as the first thing the user sees, rather than Anaconda) - need to ensure that either language selection is displayed in initial setup or ensure that the correct keyboard layout is predefined for the locale. Some digging required here. It might be good to track that. 22:36:33 <cmurf> #action Michael to investigate first boot language selection 22:36:35 <cmurf> - Disk encryption - how to enable/reprovision? 22:36:37 <cmurf> #topic Status reports 22:36:39 <cmurf> Chris is 60% through swap on zram proposal; is currently summarizing the hibernation issue 22:36:41 <cmurf> #topic F32 retrospective, and appoint chair for F33 cycle 22:36:43 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/141 22:36:45 <cmurf> #info Review F32 cycle, WG organizational and meeting format changes. Chair and co-chair nominations. 22:36:47 <cmurf> #topic Meeting format 22:36:49 <cmurf> Chris would appreciate feedback on the meeting format. 22:36:51 <cmurf> Michael: thinks that things are going well. Thinks that video has been a success. 6 month chair seems good; thinks that Chris has been doing a good job. 22:36:53 <cmurf> Allan: posted his feedback in the ticket (as did Chris and Tomas). 22:36:55 <cmurf> Kalev: not happy at all. Would prefer IRC meetings. 22:36:57 <cmurf> Chris: could we have an IRC meeting every month? Kalev: or a video meeting every month, and IRC at other times? 22:36:59 <cmurf> Matthias: we have IRC all the time. 22:37:01 <cmurf> Non-weekly meetings are difficult, calendar-wise. 22:37:03 <cmurf> #agreed Continue the discussion on the ticket. 22:37:05 <cmurf> #topic Chair/co-chair duration 22:37:07 <cmurf> Kalev: 6 months is too long; would prefer 2/3 months, and the chair can choose the meeting format 22:37:09 <cmurf> Chris: perhaps that suggestion could be combined with Allan's idea of the chair delegating more duties 22:37:11 <cmurf> #topic Nominations 22:37:13 <cmurf> Chris would be happy to do it, and perhaps delegate more 22:37:15 <cmurf> Allan is happy to carry on as co-chair, would quite like not to do the minutes any more 22:37:17 <cmurf> Allan: we have some long-running initiatives which Chris has been leading, which it would be good to resolve for F33. Chris: isn't sure he needs to be chair for that. 22:37:19 <cmurf> Michael is happy for Chris to carry on as chair. So is Allan. 22:37:21 <cmurf> Chris invites others to put themselves forward as nominees. 22:37:23 <cmurf> Kalev is interested, but only if we use IRC. Would change the direction - would focus on getting Flathub preinstalled instead of disk encryption. Also which apps are preinstalled. 22:37:25 <cmurf> Some discussion about enabling Flathub by default - see ticket #108 22:37:27 <cmurf> #topic Encryption of system and user data 22:37:29 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/136 22:37:31 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/82 22:37:33 <cmurf> Discuss short term encryption plan (full disk encryption as it exists today in the installer, which encrypts both system and user data). 22:37:35 <cmurf> Last week Lennart and Ray joined us to talk about homed. Ray might report back next week on systemd-homed. It's currently unclear whether systemd-homed is a short-term prospect or a long-term prospect. 22:37:37 <cmurf> Question about setting up recovery keys - https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/136#comment-643926 22:37:39 <cmurf> Michael & Matthias: how is a recovery password useful, if you can just forget that one as well? 22:37:41 <cmurf> Owen: the fact that it's a recovery password indicates to people that they need a good record of it. 22:37:43 <cmurf> Allan: would like to evaluate the full range of issues/requirements in relation to full disk encryption, not just this issue alone. How does this approach to password recovery compare to other approaches? 22:37:45 <cmurf> Michael: we should invite people from fedora-devel to participate in the discussion. 22:37:47 <cmurf> #action: michael to do this. 22:37:49 <cmurf> Jens: what about root password? (as recovery key?) 22:37:51 <cmurf> #topic Blocking on user switching 22:37:53 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/139 22:37:55 <cmurf> What are the parameters by which loss of function should or should not be release blocking? 22:37:57 <cmurf> Is it right to block a release on this? 22:37:59 <cmurf> Kalev: yes. We have the engineers to fix it. 22:38:01 <cmurf> Matthias: depends on how relevant user switching is to us. 22:38:03 <cmurf> Allan: there are some multiuser cases where it would be nice if Fedora was appropriate - small labs/offices. Kalev: shared computers at home are relevant too. 22:38:05 <cmurf> Allan: other question is how bad the fail state is - does it just not work, or does it bring down the session/system, etc? 22:38:07 <cmurf> #agreed User switching should be a release blocker; we're happy for QA to decide on the exact wording. 22:38:09 <cmurf> #action Chris to communicate the decision to QA 22:38:11 <cmurf> #topic Workstation Live image is oversize 22:38:13 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/140 22:38:15 <cmurf> Chris: what's the process we want to determine the image size? 22:38:17 <cmurf> Kalev: if we want to stick to 2GB, we will need to cut some packages. We're very close to the limit - not much room for manoeuvre. 22:38:19 <cmurf> Owen: if we change the limit to 4GB, we wouldn't have any other process to keep the size down. This could imply that we should only increase the limit a small amount. The alternative would be to schedule a size review each development cycle. Matthias: it could be a package review rather than size review - to see what changes have been made. 22:38:21 <cmurf> Kalev: it would be good to do this around the same time as the test day. 22:38:23 <cmurf> Owen: that might not give us a lot of time to resolve engineering issues. Kalev: yes, we should have the test day before the beta, to give us enough time before the beta release. 22:38:25 <cmurf> Chris: would like to review which services are started, too. 22:38:27 <cmurf> #action Chris will ask release engineering and QA for their input, and we'll work out the details next week 22:38:29 <cmurf> #topic Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps 22:38:31 <cmurf> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/125 22:38:33 <cmurf> #info Deferred 22:38:52 <cmurf> #endmeeting