2024-02-14 16:35:32 <@siosm:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting
2024-02-14 16:35:34 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-02-14 16:35:32 UTC
2024-02-14 16:35:34 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting'
2024-02-14 16:35:52 <@siosm:matrix.org> Starting the meeting (JB can take over once he gets here)
2024-02-14 16:35:59 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2024-02-14 16:36:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi jbtrystram
2024-02-14 16:36:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his
2024-02-14 16:36:21 <@aaradhak:matrix.org> !hi aaradhak
2024-02-14 16:36:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aashish Radhakrishnan (aaradhak)
2024-02-14 16:36:33 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> !hi c4rt0
2024-02-14 16:36:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Piasecki (c4rt0) - he / him / his
2024-02-14 16:36:38 <@siosm:matrix.org> I'll let you handle the meeting then jbtrystram https://github.com/coreos/fcos-meeting-action/issues/71
2024-02-14 16:36:49 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2024-02-14 16:36:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2024-02-14 16:36:52 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !hi marmijo
2024-02-14 16:36:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Armijo (marmijo)
2024-02-14 16:36:58 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2024-02-14 16:36:59 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> !hi jmarrero
2024-02-14 16:37:00 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2024-02-14 16:37:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Joseph Marrero (jmarrero)
2024-02-14 16:37:05 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> @travier sorry ! Thanks
2024-02-14 16:37:23 <@spresti:fedora.im> !hi
2024-02-14 16:37:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Steven Presti (spresti)
2024-02-14 16:39:01 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I'll wait another minute for everyone to join and start 
2024-02-14 16:39:41 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !hi gursewak
2024-02-14 16:39:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gursewak Singh (gursewak)
2024-02-14 16:39:51 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic Action items from last meeting
2024-02-14 16:40:49 <@siosm:matrix.org> Minutes from last week: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-coreos-community-meeting-minutes-2024-02-07/104665
2024-02-14 16:40:56 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2024-02-14 16:40:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2024-02-14 16:40:59 <@spresti:fedora.im> Ah i was about to do that
2024-02-14 16:41:15 <@spresti:fedora.im> There were no action items
2024-02-14 16:41:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> There is not action label in the tracker, it's only listed in the meeting minutes :)
2024-02-14 16:41:31 <@siosm:matrix.org> There is no action label in the tracker, it's only listed in the meeting minutes :)
2024-02-14 16:41:51 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Ah okay, then there is none :) 
2024-02-14 16:42:16 <@spresti:fedora.im> Sorry guys https://github.com/coreos/fcos-meeting-action/pull/69 is almost there.
2024-02-14 16:42:35 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !info no actions to do since last meeting
2024-02-14 16:43:58 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> .hi
2024-02-14 16:44:02 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic tracker: Fedora 40 changes considerations
2024-02-14 16:44:09 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1626
2024-02-14 16:44:37 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> there are some new self contained changes for us to run through. shouldn't take long
2024-02-14 16:45:10 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I do one action for each new entry in the tracker bug ?
2024-02-14 16:45:14 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> one topic sorry
2024-02-14 16:45:29 <@spresti:fedora.im> Do an info 
2024-02-14 16:45:37 <@siosm:matrix.org> You can do !info ... & !link to the change URL
2024-02-14 16:45:37 <@spresti:fedora.im> or topic rather
2024-02-14 16:45:45 <@siosm:matrix.org> or topic
2024-02-14 16:46:04 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic ibus-anthy 1.5.16 will update the Japanese era for 2024. 
2024-02-14 16:46:12 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ibus-anthy_1.5.16
2024-02-14 16:46:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship ibus so that should not impact us
2024-02-14 16:46:58 <@spresti:fedora.im> !info we dont ship ibus, so not impacted
2024-02-14 16:47:37 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic IBus 1.5.30
2024-02-14 16:47:49 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBus_1.5.30
2024-02-14 16:47:56 <@spresti:fedora.im> Same thing ?
2024-02-14 16:47:57 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !info we dont ship ibus, so not impacted
2024-02-14 16:47:59 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yup
2024-02-14 16:48:26 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic IoT Simplified Provisioning : Offer Fedora IoT users a new, non-release blocking deliverable to deploy and configure Fedora IoT systems using a new tool called Simplified Provisioning.
2024-02-14 16:48:31 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IoTSimplifiedProvisioning
2024-02-14 16:49:07 <@jlebon:fedora.im> this one is good to be aware of, but doesn't directly impact us either. IoT is a known user/contributor of coreos-installer
2024-02-14 16:49:30 <@spresti:fedora.im> thats awesome :) 
2024-02-14 16:50:53 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> proposed info:  We won't ship Simplified Provisioning, but it's good to be aware as IoT is a known user/contributor of coreos-installer
2024-02-14 16:51:55 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !info:  We won't ship Simplified Provisioning, but it's good to be aware as IoT is a known user/contributor of coreos-installer
2024-02-14 16:52:37 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I'll let steven finish his message before moving on :) 
2024-02-14 16:52:46 <@spresti:fedora.im> nooo lol im good
2024-02-14 16:52:50 <@spresti:fedora.im> sorry
2024-02-14 16:53:03 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> :) 
2024-02-14 16:53:05 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic Deprecate_ntlm_in_cyrus_sasl
2024-02-14 16:53:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Deprecate_ntlm_in_cyrus_sasl
2024-02-14 16:53:14 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we do ship cyrus-sasl but IMO this is not even worth signaling in our communications
2024-02-14 16:53:14 <@spresti:fedora.im> Looking at our manifest files do we even ship ntlm_in_cyrus_sasl?
2024-02-14 16:53:43 <@spresti:fedora.im> (lol caught prepping for next question) 
2024-02-14 16:53:53 <@spresti:fedora.im> Ah ok
2024-02-14 16:54:43 <@spresti:fedora.im> For future ref Jonathan Lebon  where do I look to see if we infact do ship somthing?
2024-02-14 16:54:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> we don't ship the cyrus-sasl-ntlm subpackage however
2024-02-14 16:55:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> you can git grep the f-c-c repo
2024-02-14 16:55:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> I'm running `rpm -qa` on my FCOS nodes
2024-02-14 16:55:24 <@spresti:fedora.im> ah ok, i was only looking at the lockfile 
2024-02-14 16:55:56 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: good catch. so this shouldn't affect us at all
2024-02-14 16:57:33 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> so proposed : we don't ship the cyrus-sasl-ntlm subpackage 
2024-02-14 16:57:43 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> so proposed : we don't ship the cyrus-sasl-ntlm subpackage, so not impacted
2024-02-14 16:58:59 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !info we don't ship the cyrus-sasl-ntlm subpackage, so not impacted
2024-02-14 16:59:10 <@siosm:matrix.org> (you can skip proposed when we don't even include the package)
2024-02-14 16:59:28 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic Please provide FCOS OVA image for VMware on aarch64/MacOS
2024-02-14 16:59:34 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1594
2024-02-14 16:59:49 <@siosm:matrix.org> you missed a change?
2024-02-14 17:00:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> 227?
2024-02-14 17:00:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> Didn't you miss a change?
2024-02-14 17:00:29 <@siosm:matrix.org> It's a quick one as it does not impact us
2024-02-14 17:00:29 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> ah yes ! Sorry 
2024-02-14 17:00:43 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I even had prepped it 
2024-02-14 17:00:57 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> let's discuss this one then circle back ?
2024-02-14 17:01:10 <@spresti:fedora.im> sgtm
2024-02-14 17:01:17 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> +1
2024-02-14 17:01:25 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I tagged this with one with meeting label
2024-02-14 17:02:02 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> looks like we have more and more people with M* mac hardware out there (aarch64) 
2024-02-14 17:02:04 <@jlebon:fedora.im> (basically 227 is "this doesn't directly impact us but is good news")
2024-02-14 17:02:48 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> the new Mac hardware is only aarch64 
2024-02-14 17:03:01 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> I think make sense to have it
2024-02-14 17:03:02 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Renata Ravanelli: yes
2024-02-14 17:03:03 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> @jlebon @travier i updated the tracking issue with the info, is it worth adding a topic in the meeting note?
2024-02-14 17:04:02 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: it'd be out of order now. i'd just omit it
2024-02-14 17:04:29 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> this one should be simple. I think all we have to do is just add the artifact to the aarch64 list in our pipeline: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-pipeline/blob/fb1c673c4f391b973c84726fc9c99366330899ad/config.yaml#L56
2024-02-14 17:04:52 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: i don't quite follow
2024-02-14 17:05:03 <@jlebon:fedora.im> the ticket is talking about VMware
2024-02-14 17:05:37 <@jlebon:fedora.im> are there people wanting to run VMware on their Mac?
2024-02-14 17:06:01 <@spresti:fedora.im> It seems like it, for testing purposes. 
2024-02-14 17:06:40 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ok weird
2024-02-14 17:06:57 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: yeah. same as they were running VMWare Fusion on their Mac prior to Apple transitioning to aarch64 
2024-02-14 17:07:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> they want to run it now too, just with aarch64 as the arch
2024-02-14 17:07:29 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> I do run fcos via virtual box for example in my Mac to test things.
2024-02-14 17:07:40 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i mean, i would position it as building it for VMware's sake. Mac users getting to test it locally is sort of an implied thing
2024-02-14 17:07:42 <@spresti:fedora.im> yeah mac's with the new apple chips are quite limited with virt options
2024-02-14 17:08:21 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ahh OK. they're not testing locally to push to some other cluster, but using VMware as *the* virtualization stack they want to use on their Mac
2024-02-14 17:08:35 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> spresti: indeed, seems it also dropped kvm
2024-02-14 17:08:43 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ahh OK. they're not testing locally to push to some other VMware cluster, but using VMware as _the_ virtualization stack they want to use on their Mac
2024-02-14 17:08:47 <@spresti:fedora.im> yeah
2024-02-14 17:08:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that makes more sense now :)
2024-02-14 17:09:46 <@spresti:fedora.im> So are there any storage concerns for adding another variant ? 
2024-02-14 17:10:01 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> i would expect vmware to handle a regular qcow2 file ?
2024-02-14 17:10:36 <@spresti:fedora.im> yeah but virting x86 to aarch is rough.
2024-02-14 17:10:49 <@spresti:fedora.im> or rather other way around
2024-02-14 17:10:50 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: it's a different platform ID, e.g. Ignition provisioning works differently
2024-02-14 17:12:07 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i don't mind the storage part of it. the bigger issue in that area is honestly our lack of GC
2024-02-14 17:12:38 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Yes IIUC gursewak was working on garbage collection
2024-02-14 17:12:56 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> but it's a huge problem of ours
2024-02-14 17:13:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> honestly, we should probably stop building any image we don't actually test on mechanical streams. at least until we get GC
2024-02-14 17:14:03 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> it sounds crazy that we would need to have a different image that is probably 99% the same, except for some metadata pointing to the ignition file :) but i don't know much about virtualisation to have strong opinions
2024-02-14 17:14:18 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> it sounds crazy that we would need to have a different image that is probably 99% the same, except for some metadata pointing to the ignition file :) but i don't know enough about virtualisation to have strong opinions
2024-02-14 17:14:32 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: that is the bed we've made ourselves :). it has positives and negatives for sure
2024-02-14 17:14:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> jbtrystram: It's the idea behind the https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/blob/main/.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/implementing-new-emerging-platform.md template
2024-02-14 17:14:59 <@spresti:fedora.im> I think the platform ID was the anchor we needed for a chicken and egg issue
2024-02-14 17:15:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> If we can make a set commands that coverts an existing image to a VMware OVA that could also be an option
2024-02-14 17:16:37 <@siosm:matrix.org> But it's always going to be nicer for users if we provide the image exactly as is
2024-02-14 17:17:41 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think what @jlebon said is more relevant here on the storage issue.
2024-02-14 17:17:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> See also a previous idea from Colin: https://github.com/cgwalters/coreos-diskimage-rehydrator
2024-02-14 17:17:55 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> if we're worried about storage, we should really finally implement GC
2024-02-14 17:18:12 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> and then focus on other efforts after that
2024-02-14 17:18:19 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> GC would give the much bigger win
2024-02-14 17:18:43 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: what does "mechanical stream" means in this context ?
2024-02-14 17:19:08 <@siosm:matrix.org> It's a stream that is released automatically
2024-02-14 17:19:25 <@siosm:matrix.org> i.e. we don't manually release Rawhide
2024-02-14 17:20:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> I agree that it would be nice to focus on garbage collecting our unused images.
2024-02-14 17:20:32 <@gurssing:matrix.org> On a side note dustymabe For the GC issue itself, it was decided that it is a much broader issue than expected and will need breaking it down to tackle it accordingly. No ongoing work rn.
2024-02-14 17:21:39 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah, i think we'll be prioritizing that one soon. but we can discuss that outside this meeting ;)
2024-02-14 17:21:53 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> Is there an open with for the GC?
2024-02-14 17:22:46 <@siosm:matrix.org> https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/99
2024-02-14 17:23:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> re. the emerging platform bit, i see it more as a way for contributors to not have to jump through all the PR hoops. storage itself isn't a significant factor IMO.
2024-02-14 17:23:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> IMO, since we already did all the work for vmware on x86_64, there isn't really anything to enable here
2024-02-14 17:23:31 <@jlebon:fedora.im> IOW, since we already did all the work for vmware on x86\_64, there isn't really anything to enable here
2024-02-14 17:25:28 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I see this particular topic as a few questions/work items

1. should we add it?
2. someone does a local build and test on mac/vmware fusion (@fifofonix may be willing to do the test if someone else does the build)
3. add the entry to the artifact list in the pipeline
4. make sure it shows up on the website and in the builds browser 
2024-02-14 17:26:20 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> if somehow the artifact doesn't work and would require us to debug it and spend more time on it, then I might not be up for making it a priority
2024-02-14 17:26:38 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> but if it's an easy win, then I'd vote for it
2024-02-14 17:26:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i'm not sure 4 is required
2024-02-14 17:27:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> why not?
2024-02-14 17:27:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> sorry, "make sure" sounds good. but yeah, no work should be needed
2024-02-14 17:28:32 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> TBH fifofonix might be willing to do all the work here (it's that simple)
2024-02-14 17:29:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> for 2, we could just turn it on in e.g. rawhide and let e.g. fifofonix test that
2024-02-14 17:30:26 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> so it looks like this : agreed : we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works we enable vmware aarch64 in the pipeline
And then some action items for the next meeting
2024-02-14 17:31:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> and also add a meeting topic about organising and re-prioritize the work around GC for images 
2024-02-14 17:32:06 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> would be nice if we had a volunteer for collaborating with fifofonix too
2024-02-14 17:33:08 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 👋 fifofonix - welcome to the community where you get volunteered for things
2024-02-14 17:33:12 <@fifofonix:matrix.org> !hi fifofonix
2024-02-14 17:33:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fifo Phonics (fifofonix)
2024-02-14 17:33:34 <@spresti:fedora.im> I have a mac with a aarch chip, I can see if I can test it as well.
2024-02-14 17:34:16 <@mnguyen:fedora.im> Thanks spresti 
2024-02-14 17:34:51 <@fifofonix:matrix.org> I'd be happy to test, and if someone can explain what you regard as simple dustymabe, then I'm up for a challenge!
2024-02-14 17:36:57 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: want to do an approved and then we do a quick open floor?
2024-02-14 17:37:15 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !proposed: we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works, enable vmware + aarch64 in the pipeline
2024-02-14 17:37:29 <@spresti:fedora.im> +1
2024-02-14 17:37:34 <@jlebon:fedora.im> +1
2024-02-14 17:37:47 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> +1
2024-02-14 17:37:52 <@mnguyen:fedora.im> +1
2024-02-14 17:38:04 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> +1
2024-02-14 17:38:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> (not usre if !proposed is a thing)
2024-02-14 17:38:13 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> +1
2024-02-14 17:38:21 <@spresti:fedora.im> Nah it used to be. 
2024-02-14 17:38:30 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !agreed: we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works, enable vmware + aarch64 in the pipeline
2024-02-14 17:38:32 <@spresti:fedora.im> so you can do an agree'd
2024-02-14 17:39:05 <@spresti:fedora.im> odd the bot did not pick up
2024-02-14 17:39:16 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> spresti: can we add a `hagrid` alias ? :) 
2024-02-14 17:40:09 <@spresti:fedora.im> I am going to copy and paste your command real quick
2024-02-14 17:40:11 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> i'll try again for the bot 
2024-02-14 17:40:18 <@spresti:fedora.im> ok you go for it
2024-02-14 17:40:18 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !agreed: we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works, enable vmware + aarch64 in the pipeline
2024-02-14 17:40:31 <@spresti:fedora.im> !agreed: "we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works, enable vmware + aarch64 in the pipeline"
2024-02-14 17:40:35 <@spresti:fedora.im> idk
2024-02-14 17:40:44 <@spresti:fedora.im> zodbot!!!
2024-02-14 17:40:52 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !agreed we will test out an aarch64 vmware build with the help of @fifonix and if it works, enable vmware + aarch64 in the pipeline
2024-02-14 17:41:06 <@jlebon:fedora.im> and on that note, have to drop. thanks all and thanks jbtrystram for running!
2024-02-14 17:41:06 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> maybe the `:` is throwing it off?
2024-02-14 17:41:08 <@spresti:fedora.im> oh ok
2024-02-14 17:41:25 <@spresti:fedora.im> yeah must be
2024-02-14 17:41:33 <@siosm:matrix.org> yeah, likely the ":"
2024-02-14 17:41:35 <@spresti:fedora.im> Though curiously with other commands it does not
2024-02-14 17:41:40 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2024-02-14 17:41:42 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> or maybe zobbot died, don't know
2024-02-14 17:41:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> Let's do 5 min open floor, we're late
2024-02-14 17:41:57 <@spresti:fedora.im> yah
2024-02-14 17:42:22 <@siosm:matrix.org> Any topics for open floor?
2024-02-14 17:43:17 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Nothing from my side.. other than we should be enabling our `branched` stream soon 
2024-02-14 17:46:04 <@fifofonix:matrix.org> Only an observation: the last several updates have been completely seamless from my point-of-view which is the way obvs (that's a thank you). I only mention because there were a couple of months where I was getting hanging shutdowns/upgrades that occurred on 5% of machines say (often looking like SMB-related causes). That's all gone magically now.
2024-02-14 17:46:26 <@fifofonix:matrix.org> Only an observation: the last several updates have been completely seamless from my point-of-view which is the way obvs (that's a thank you). I only mention because there were a couple of months where I was getting hanging shutdowns/upgrades that occurred on 5% of machines say (often looking like timing-related SMB-related causes). That's all gone magically now.
2024-02-14 17:47:50 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> let's close it out
2024-02-14 17:48:00 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !endmeeting