18:01:38 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:01:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 15 18:01:38 2020 UTC.
18:01:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:01:38 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:01:58 <felixfontein> is anyone around?
18:02:15 <samccann> \o
18:02:16 <felixfontein> abadger1999: acozine: samccann: andersson007_: cyberpear:
18:02:21 <felixfontein> #chair samccann
18:02:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein samccann
18:02:36 <abadger1999> Good morning, afternoon, evening :-)
18:02:53 <felixfontein> #chair abadger1999
18:02:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 felixfontein samccann
18:02:58 <felixfontein> good morning!
18:03:01 <felixfontein> (in your time ;) )
18:03:04 <samccann> acozine had to take a cat to the vet so may not make it
18:03:08 <abadger1999> Hee hee
18:03:13 <felixfontein> samccann: I hope the cat is fine!
18:03:23 * samccann realizes she just left that tidbit in the meeting log
18:03:35 <abadger1999> # info [...] ;-)
18:03:43 <felixfontein> lol
18:04:20 <felixfontein> we even have some topics today!
18:04:31 <felixfontein> I'm not sure whether we should discuss the collection moving part without g.
18:05:25 <felixfontein> we could discuss samccann's topics: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/539#issuecomment-656693139
18:05:28 <felixfontein> what do you think?
18:05:59 <felixfontein> (it's probably also more urgent)
18:06:14 <samccann> heh sounds good to me :-)
18:06:35 <felixfontein> #topic https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/539#issuecomment-656693139
18:07:06 <felixfontein> with which one should we start?
18:07:36 <samccann> start with https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/issues/1391 (because it looks like it might already be part of the script)?
18:07:57 <felixfontein> #topic https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/issues/1391
18:08:33 <felixfontein> do we know whether it is already active, or soon to be activated?
18:08:47 <abadger1999> samccann: Okay, so what do we need?  Testing?
18:09:05 <samccann> It looks like the person who commented proved it works already
18:09:31 <samccann> fwiw I just took the info from the contributor summit/docs hackathon and plopped the todo items in that comment so we didn't forget :-)
18:12:46 <samccann> what do y'all think? Should I close that issue or do you want to test things first?
18:13:47 <felixfontein> hmm, from the code (just grepping around a bit) it doesn't seem like it is active yet
18:13:58 <felixfontein> it only adds labels such as needs_collection_boilerplate
18:15:27 <samccann> I think we don't want the script/code running until we complete the other two items in my comment - edit the .md file and ensure all collections are in galaxy.
18:16:47 <felixfontein> yep, but we can't test without code :) maybe it's already in there though, and just well hidden ;)
18:17:01 <samccann> oh hehe
18:18:10 <felixfontein> so should we discuss https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md ?
18:18:15 <felixfontein> that's something I guess we can do :)
18:18:27 <samccann> hah sure!
18:19:15 <felixfontein> #topic https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md
18:20:10 <felixfontein> shouldn't be the link to https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/master/README.rst be more at the top of the list of links?
18:20:20 <felixfontein> (also, there's a master in there that needs to be migrated)
18:21:52 <samccann> I don't think anyone has moved the overview repo from master to main yet
18:22:08 <samccann> if that's the master you are talking about.
18:22:20 <felixfontein> it will be a bit more problematic, since there are probably many links to the README with `master` in it
18:22:24 <felixfontein> yep, I meant that one
18:22:26 <abadger1999> We probably need more hands to get prmove deployed in the community team... I wonder if gundalow would be willing to give keys to deploy to someone not paid by red hat (community infrastructure like Fedora and centos do)
18:23:09 <samccann> abadgetr1999: that's a good long/medium term project but I don't think we were going to hold up turning this bot on for that. We're suggesting manually moving the PR for now
18:23:11 <gundalow> abadger1999: yes, I'm OK with that
18:23:26 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:23:27 <abadger1999> Cool
18:23:33 <samccann> heh some vacation gundalow !
18:23:50 <felixfontein> indeed, enjoy it (and stop looking at IRC :D )!
18:23:54 <samccann> so are we waiting for prmove to be ready or turning the bot on before that?
18:24:34 <felixfontein> I'm not sure whether we should wait much longer... it's already confusing enough right now, with still no automatic announcement to PR authors
18:24:55 <abadger1999> I say do not wait.
18:25:23 <felixfontein> I'm +1 for not wait as well
18:25:28 <abadger1999> I just read the prmove entry and thought "The community team doesn't have a timeline for deploying this tool..."
18:25:39 <andersson007_> hi everyone
18:25:56 <abadger1999> Hi andersson007_ !
18:25:57 <andersson007_> was a bit busy with one issue
18:25:57 <samccann> +1 for not waiting
18:25:58 <abadger1999> #chair andersson007_
18:25:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 andersson007_ felixfontein samccann
18:26:11 <felixfontein> hi abadger1999!
18:26:13 <felixfontein> lol
18:26:15 <felixfontein> hi andersson007_!
18:26:16 <andersson007_> :)
18:26:19 <felixfontein> tab completion is hard...
18:26:29 <andersson007_> yeah, sometimes
18:26:35 <samccann> so on the .md file, we need steps for how the developer finds out where to move the issue or pr. Do we have some quick steps I can add to that file and we'll call that done?
18:28:16 <felixfontein> do we have some docs which explain how paths in collections differ from the ones in ansible-base?
18:28:41 <felixfontein> like lib/ansible/modules -> plugins/modules/, lib/ansible/plugins/xxx -> plugins/xxx, and various test directory mappings?
18:29:16 <samccann> we have it somewhere I think...
18:30:42 <samccann> oh  hehe  It's my PR and I need to implement your feedback - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/70243
18:30:51 * samccann shuffles feet guiltily
18:31:04 <felixfontein> lol
18:31:32 <felixfontein> now I remember
18:31:32 <samccann> I can add a link to the .md file once it's published.
18:31:51 <felixfontein> but that's a different one I think
18:32:08 <felixfontein> this is about removing something from one collection and adding it to another
18:32:46 <samccann> well shoot, I know I wrote it somewhere...
18:33:02 <samccann> oh maybe it was migrating roles into a collection that had that detail
18:33:33 <samccann> yeah this is what I was remembering - https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/dev_guide/migrating_roles.html#migrating-roles
18:34:01 <samccann> I don't know that we have anything generic what moved to where when a module goes from base into a collection
18:34:56 <felixfontein> should we add something to https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md then?
18:35:18 <felixfontein> I can write a few lines (and a list of path changes / import changes)
18:35:50 <samccann> yes please that would be great
18:36:05 <felixfontein> ok, will do that
18:36:14 <samccann> I'm sure we need that info in the dev guide as well, but at least it will be someplace for now
18:36:31 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein write a few lines on how paths and imports change when moving PRs from ansible/ansible to collection repos
18:36:43 <samccann> can you also add the steps on how to find what collection the module moved to?  I think it's somethingsomething/meta/runtime.yaml?
18:36:54 <felixfontein> I can try
18:36:58 * samccann never remembers where that file is hidden
18:37:07 <felixfontein> I would be happy if you could fix the language afterwards ;)
18:37:18 <felixfontein> lib/ansible/config/ansible_builtin_runtime.yml
18:37:22 <felixfontein> it's a mouth full...
18:37:38 <samccann> heh yeah just search the module name there and then..er...
18:37:45 * samccann goes look at that file
18:37:48 <felixfontein> I think half of the time I confuse the words in ansible_builtin
18:38:26 <felixfontein> the problem is that it's structured YAML, but github doesn't really allow you to see the tree structure for such a massive file
18:39:11 <felixfontein> so if you look at plugin_routing.modules.docker_swarm, you simply have to search for docker_swarm - and if you're unlucky, you find the inventory plugin of the same name instead
18:39:17 <samccann> okay I think the steps are 1. Search that file for the module. 2. search Galaxy for the collection listed in that search result.  3. click the 'repo' link or the 'issues tracker' link in Galaxy
18:39:20 <felixfontein> (which usually is not a problem since they all moved to the same collection)
18:39:49 <felixfontein> and hope that you end up on github, and not some random other site like openstack's gerrit ;)
18:40:20 <samccann> well how is openstack managing its collection? maybe they do want gerrit??
18:40:33 <felixfontein> they seem to like gerrit
18:40:55 <felixfontein> I personally don't like gerrit, but then I'm not interested in their modules/collection, so idc ;)
18:41:04 <abadger1999> <nod> :-)
18:42:18 <abadger1999> Do we have anything more that needs to be done on this?
18:42:59 <felixfontein> I think the rest of the doc is fine
18:43:46 <felixfontein> samccann: do you have more on this one?
18:44:02 <samccann> nope sounds  like your planned edits should be good
18:44:18 <samccann> the final item is - are all the ansible collections in galaxy yet? we were waiting for that one too
18:45:08 <felixfontein> from looking at https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/blob/main/2.10/acd.in I think the main problem seems to be dellemc.os*
18:45:09 <abadger1999> They are not.
18:45:21 <abadger1999> <nod> that's the list :-)
18:45:33 <nitzmahone> The dellos6 and dellos9 ones are MIA, BTW
18:45:45 <felixfontein> community.mysql is on galaxy, the modules in infobox.nios_modules are in community.network or community.general (I always forget)
18:45:47 <samccann> Heh anyone we can bug about them?
18:45:59 <nitzmahone> (so far the only ones I've hit in the module_utils migration that I had to just exclude)
18:46:02 <nitzmahone> no clue
18:46:11 <felixfontein> btw, abadger1999, https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/pull/17
18:46:31 <nitzmahone> but I'm also only about halfway through the list ;)
18:47:13 <felixfontein> did anyone made a inventory of which collections are mentioned in ansible_builtin_runtime.yml?
18:47:25 <felixfontein> (so we could compare it with acd.in?)
18:47:29 <samccann> Is there an ansible (acd) drop dead date?
18:47:37 <abadger1999> Merged, thanks :-)
18:47:39 <nitzmahone> FYI: We'll be delaying the ansible-base 2.10.0rc1 release a week to sew up some recently discovered issues around redirected module_utils. The roadmap page source has been updated to reflect the new date, and will push live to the docs site soon.
18:48:34 <abadger1999> samccann: Only tentative.
18:48:43 * abadger1999 digs that up
18:49:18 <felixfontein> abadger1999: do you happen to have a tentative roadmap, i.e. when we want to start with betas and RCs?
18:50:11 <samccann> Keeping in mind I don’t control any real decisions.... we are holding up progress on a lot of issues and prs for a couple of stragglers
18:50:20 <abadger1999> 2020-08-18 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 Beta freeze.
18:50:40 <samccann> My hardnozed nickel would be we don’t wait for them
18:50:52 <felixfontein> samccann: if it is just these few, me too
18:51:04 <felixfontein> I tihnk I'll compile an inventory and compare it to acd.in if nobody else already did that
18:51:29 <abadger1999> rbergeron: is driving the schedule.  Reasons it's highly tentative.... (1) we're all new at this.  What could go wrong that we aren't expecting?  What could go right?  (2) we're depending on ansible-base.  So how reliant are we on their schedule?
18:52:07 <abadger1999> For instance, nitzmahone saying that ansible-base-rc1 is slipping above..... is that going to slip ansible-base final?  Will that affect the ansible-2.10 schedule?
18:52:50 <abadger1999> nitzmahone: ^ Is final going to slip as well (at this time)?
18:52:57 <nitzmahone> Not at the moment- there's plenty of slop in the base releae schedule to accommodate it
18:53:01 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:53:08 <felixfontein> I guess if RC just slips by one week, final won't slip - if nothing bad happens
18:53:15 <abadger1999> Okay, have you updated  rbergeron specifically?  If not, I'll let her know.
18:54:00 <felixfontein> abadger1999: so will we have a beta (or more than one beta), and then a final release? or also a RC?
18:54:11 <abadger1999> felixfontein: btw, the tentative schedule has: 2020-09-01 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 Beta (so that would be the beta1 date)
18:54:49 <felixfontein> ah, the beta freeze does not coincide with the beta itself
18:54:55 <abadger1999> I'm going to copy and paste the relevant dates from the tentative schedule.
18:55:04 <abadger1999> Do bear in mind that this is all very tentative....
18:56:13 <abadger1999> 2020-07-21: Ansible 2.10 Final (??) Alpha Release. (??)    [Toshio: Do we need to have a final alpha?  What's the argument against releasing alphas  up until beta1?]
18:56:34 <abadger1999> 2020-08-13 (Thursday): ansible-base-2.10.0 final release
18:57:10 <abadger1999> 2020-08-18 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 Beta freeze.  [example: need to process all pending new module requests by this date]
18:57:19 <felixfontein> I like having more alphas, that adds additional testing for antsibull (especially the changelog / porting guide code :) )
18:57:36 <abadger1999> 2020-09-01 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 Beta.  [Toshio: Why is this date separate from and so far after the Beta freeze?]
18:57:53 <abadger1999> 2020-09-08 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 Final freeze. After this date only changes blocking a release are accepted.
18:58:00 <abadger1999> 2020-09-10 (Thursday): Ansible 2.10 RC1.
18:58:13 <abadger1999> 2020-09-22 (Tuesday): Ansible 2.10 GA release date.
18:58:20 <felixfontein> what does "need to process all pending new module requests by this date" mean? that only patch releases are accepted, but no new minor releases for collections?
18:58:52 <abadger1999> Unless I marked it with [Toshio:] those are notes that are on the tentative schedule.
18:59:40 <felixfontein> thanks for the schedule!
18:59:51 <abadger1999> I think that's what it means.  (for 2.10.0..... 2.10.1 would be free to update to new minor releases)
19:00:38 <abadger1999> I'm not sure if putting a date on which only patch releases are accepted is the right thing to do or not but it's all new so I'm willing to try it and see.
19:00:39 <felixfontein> so collections should make minor releases before 2020-08-18, if they want it to be in 2.10.0
19:01:03 <abadger1999> Yes.
19:01:15 <abadger1999> I think that's what they should plan on for now.
19:01:21 <felixfontein> I guess that should be announced soon, so that people can prepare
19:01:57 <andersson007_> in bullhorn for example
19:01:59 <felixfontein> so especially all collections need to have 1.0.0 released before 2020-08-18
19:02:26 <abadger1999> If a bunch of collections say "we didn't understand" I'd be prepared to ask robyn if we could/should let them in... but I'm not entirely sure of the ramifications of that outside of the ansible-2.10.0 package itself so I'll need her to give more input about it.
19:03:21 <felixfontein> andersson007_: that we should do ,but I think we should already announce it earlier... the next bullhorn is due in two weeks, that's almost half of the time until the freeze
19:04:05 <abadger1999> #action Toshio will consult robyn about getting the schedule into the next bullhorn and probably send a separate announcement as well.  In particular, the 2020-8-18 beta freeze date is important.
19:05:01 <andersson007_> felixfontein: yep, we should first do it in "changes impacting contributors":)
19:05:16 <felixfontein> andersson007_: yes, definitely there, and maybe also the ansible-devel mailing list?
19:05:37 <felixfontein> samccann: btw, didn't you start that issue that we want to inform collection owners about changelogs etc.?
19:05:50 <andersson007_> felixfontein: all channels would be good
19:05:58 <felixfontein> I completely forgot about it ... until now. we should do that soon, and probably also mention the date there :)
19:06:59 * acozine waves
19:07:10 <felixfontein> hi acozine!
19:07:11 <felixfontein> #chair acozine
19:07:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 acozine andersson007_ felixfontein samccann
19:07:16 <abadger1999> Hope your cat is okay!
19:07:21 <felixfontein> #chair nitzmahone
19:07:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 acozine andersson007_ felixfontein nitzmahone samccann
19:07:22 <felixfontein> sorry
19:07:41 <acozine> she likely has pancreatitis, but mostly she's just indignant about being taken to the vet
19:07:48 <samccann> ooch
19:08:26 <felixfontein> acozine: the poor cat!
19:08:36 <felixfontein> (I haven't yet met a cat who actually likes to be taken to the vet)
19:08:39 <samccann> felixfontein - this issue? https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/88
19:08:51 <felixfontein> samccann: yes!
19:09:02 <acozine> anyway, sorry to have missed the earlier part of the meeting
19:09:25 <felixfontein> should we discuss this issue now? I think it's important to get it done
19:09:31 <felixfontein> (if you still have time)
19:10:19 <samccann> i've got a bit more time
19:10:58 <felixfontein> #topic https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/88
19:10:59 <samccann> there's also an issue 'somewhere' that gundalow created for 'everything a collection owner has to do'.
19:12:06 <felixfontein> they should definitely also subscribe to https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/45 and the bullhorn ;)
19:12:09 <samccann> tho I can't find it now.. but anyway
19:12:37 <samccann> so on what a collection owner needs to do for changelog/porting guides -
19:13:07 <samccann> 1. use antsibull-changelog if possible.  2. if not, convert their changelog to the changelog.yml file format
19:13:12 <acozine> samccann: it's that issue 45 felix linked to
19:13:27 <samccann> 3. if not, give us the url to their changelogs
19:13:36 <samccann> 4. if not, ya get nothing :-)
19:13:50 <samccann> acozine: there was something else, something more specific gundalow sent out recently
19:14:10 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/pull/90
19:14:52 <acozine> ooh, fancy
19:15:00 <acozine> also, gundalow go back to your holiday!
19:15:05 <samccann> #info use https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/pull/90 to list the requirements for collections to be in Ansible
19:17:42 <felixfontein> who wants to write a first version of the list/message?
19:17:55 <andersson007_> felixfontein: without jokes, add your suggestion about the subscriptions to gundalow's PR:) it's important to get it
19:17:56 <samccann> which one is this?
19:18:58 <felixfontein> samccann: I tihnk a combination of  https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/88 and what https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/pull/90 says
19:19:03 <felixfontein> (or what do you mean?)
19:19:43 <samccann> ok so the PR is 'checklist of all the things'.  and the issue is 'write about the new changelog process in ansible docs'
19:20:11 <samccann> that was my 'which one do you want someone to write' question
19:20:29 <felixfontein> ah
19:20:32 <felixfontein> a combined one :)
19:20:45 <felixfontein> I guess having one post with all relevant info would be best
19:22:29 <samccann> ok I think the PR is that combined one. So that will be the ultimate checklist for collections in ansible
19:23:06 <felixfontein> ok. then we should try getting it done / merged soon :)
19:23:14 <samccann> ah gotcha.
19:25:38 <samccann> my nickel is we clean up what is there and merge it. There is already a 'this is a living document' warning on it.
19:26:05 <samccann> Oncee it's merged, people can open PRs against a section of interest and update it
19:26:23 <felixfontein> sounds good!
19:28:08 <samccann> so a certain someone is on PTO this week. Should one of us just grab it and go w/ it?
19:28:34 <samccann> (not mentioning by name cuz every mention by name drags him back here to see why :-)
19:28:41 <acozine> I could look at it tomorrow or Friday
19:28:45 <acozine> not before, though
19:28:58 <samccann> sounds good to me
19:29:04 <acozine> and yeah, I think we should just fix it as much as we can and merge it
19:29:07 <felixfontein> to me too
19:30:55 <acozine> yeah, looks like it needs a quick paragraph under "Why this is needed" and a few other things
19:31:04 <acozine> it's in decent shape, though
19:37:07 * acozine is doing at least three things at once
19:37:19 <acozine> now, I mean . . . is the meeting still going on?
19:37:54 <abadger1999> It hasn't been endmeeting'd yet
19:37:58 <samccann> heh
19:38:18 <acozine> my calendar shows it ending 40 minutes ago
19:38:33 <acozine> but I know from DaWGs that schedules and reality are rarely in sync
19:38:59 <felixfontein> sorry, got a bit sidetracked
19:39:27 <acozine> #action acozine to get https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/pull/90/files ready for merge
19:39:29 <felixfontein> ok, so we try to get this merged by the end of this week / beginning of next, and then start bugging collection authors/maintainers?
19:39:49 <acozine> sounds good
19:40:00 <felixfontein> when we bug them, we should also mention the 2020-08-18 freeze, even if it is only tentative
19:41:03 <acozine> what is the mechanism for bugging collection authors/maintainers?
19:41:10 <acozine> do we open issues on their collections?
19:41:16 <acozine> call them out on IRC?
19:41:28 <acozine> email them?
19:42:11 <acozine> I need to prep for another meeting at the top of the hour
19:42:46 <felixfontein> I guess we should always open issues in their collections (assuming they use github), and also try to call them out on IRC
19:42:52 <felixfontein> I don't know if we have a email list yet
19:42:53 <samccann> similarly need to step away from the keyboard for a few minutes
19:43:12 <felixfontein> there's https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/60 about collecting contact information
19:43:17 <acozine> heh
19:43:18 <felixfontein> maybe gregdek knows
19:43:23 <acozine> so we can bug them about bugging them . . . .
19:43:29 <samccann> lol
19:43:34 <felixfontein> oh wait - does NTH mean "not to happen"?
19:43:35 <acozine> I like the open-an-issue approach
19:43:49 <samccann> +1
19:43:50 <felixfontein> ah, "nice to have"
19:43:52 <acozine> because it's easy to track
19:44:05 <felixfontein> +1
19:44:07 <samccann> that's 55+ issues tho
19:44:12 <acozine> samccann: true
19:44:28 <felixfontein> samccann: it's the same text in 55 issues :)
19:44:28 <acozine> but if we don't have contact info for everyone, it may be the only way
19:44:32 <samccann> we'll want to break that up. but that's a problem for next week after this checklist is merged and ready to point to
19:44:43 <felixfontein> the harder part is finding all these repos
19:44:46 <acozine> and surely we can copy/paste
19:44:47 <acozine> heh
19:44:59 <samccann> yeah if the 3 of us each take 15 that covers most.. just need one more volunteer
19:45:19 <felixfontein> yep :) and splitting this up sounds good, if we split this up for 5 persons, it's 11 issues per person
19:45:19 <samccann> but again, next week's problem.
19:45:37 <felixfontein> samccann: I think I can help
19:45:48 <andersson007_> i have a script to copy issues
19:45:54 <acozine> andersson007_: oh, awesome
19:46:03 <samccann> woot!
19:46:19 <andersson007_> i need a list of repo links:)
19:46:33 <andersson007_> and an initial issue
19:46:46 <felixfontein> that also sounds good :)
19:46:56 <felixfontein> we still need to collect that list of repos though ;)
19:47:02 <felixfontein> (some won't be in github)
19:49:09 <felixfontein> ok
19:49:26 <felixfontein> I guess then we're done for today?
19:49:54 <felixfontein> #action create issues in collection repos once we have the checklist merged (replicate using andersson007_'s script)
19:50:50 <andersson007_> ( felixfontein: my script uses github api but i think it won't be difficult to copy the issue to several repos which is not on github )
19:50:55 <andersson007_> manually
19:51:16 <felixfontein> yep
19:51:17 <acozine> felixfontein: I think we are
19:51:23 <acozine> thank you for driving!
19:51:32 <felixfontein> the hardest part is probably finding out how to create issues in repos outside of GH
19:51:39 <felixfontein> #endmeeting