13:53:04 #startmeeting Ansible Contributors Summit - General session 13:53:04 Meeting started Thu Oct 15 13:53:04 2020 UTC. 13:53:04 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 13:53:04 The chair is gundalow. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:53:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:53:04 The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_contributors_summit_-_general_session' 13:53:41 #chair abadger1999 acozine cybette jborean93 jillr jimi|ansible matburt mattclay maxamillion mkrizek nilashishc nitzmahone Qalthos relrod samccann sdoran shertel Shrews sivel thaumos webknjaz andersson007_ felixfontein dmsimard resmo webknjaz baptistemm gwmngilfen newswangerd 13:53:41 Current chairs: Qalthos Shrews abadger1999 acozine andersson007_ baptistemm cybette dmsimard felixfontein gundalow gwmngilfen jborean93 jillr jimi|ansible matburt mattclay maxamillion mkrizek newswangerd nilashishc nitzmahone relrod resmo samccann sdoran shertel sivel thaumos webknjaz 13:54:53 I can skip my work meeting also, anyway I'm leaving soonish :) 13:54:57 Hello hello. 13:56:37 hi! :) 13:56:56 o/ 13:57:28 hello 13:58:14 Hello \o 13:59:03 Will join for about an hour. It's now 16:00 in .nl and this timeframe clashes with other appointments 14:00:21 Hi 14:00:52 STARTING 14:00:58 \o/ 14:01:01 Is everybody on BlueJeans Primetime 14:01:18 o/ 14:02:14 im there but i dont see 'everybody' 14:02:28 yo yo 14:02:30 \o 14:03:59 Morning 14:04:14 good morning 14:04:30 timezone unspecific greetings! 14:04:41 good morning (or afternoon depending on timezone) 14:05:09 Good {{ time_period }} 14:05:16 o/ 14:05:22 #topic Intros 14:05:31 urgh, sorry, didn't realise my camera was off 14:05:56 gundalow: it was on at the beginning, turned off at some point 14:06:39 I am watching as well! 14:07:53 I may not be able to join for another 2-2.5 hours. 14:08:07 👍 14:09:03 closed captions are weird, they appear before people say anything 14:09:06 I'm triple booked for this time today, but am paying as much attention as I can... X) 14:09:14 and "carbonated open shift", mhhh, also a bit buggy 14:11:05 misc: oh they have cc? 14:11:17 geerlingguy: yep, in the setting (bottom right) 14:11:30 the whell open setting and you can have "caption" 14:11:33 interesting 14:11:56 I wanted to verify how it worked, but well, voice recognition didn't make lots of progress since last year :p 14:12:04 google meeting ones are pretty good, these are somewhat hilariouslly 'off' 14:19:43 #topic Stats update 14:20:19 #info gwmngilfen is now talking about how Ansible Community Team uses data analysis to make informed discussions 14:21:00 #info gwmngilfen gave a presentation on Monday about Stats, that video will be available soon on YouTube 14:21:51 #Info If you are interested in Contributing to Ansible please subscribe to The BullHorn: http://bit.ly/thebullhorn Community newsletter 14:23:32 #Issues are often slower moving than PRs 14:25:50 #info One of the things we are keeping in mind is are collections performing better than gh/ansible/ansible. In terms of keeping on top of the backlog, helping find new maintainers, signs of burn out. 14:28:06 well, seems my experience is among corner cases:) (ie https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/68681) 14:28:06 https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/68681) | open, created 2020-04-03T18:13:58Z by noonedeadpunk: Fix mask behaviour when service is enabled [affects_2.10,bug,collection,core_review,module,stale_ci,support:core,system] 14:31:22 if you're in Bluejeans please take the poll! 14:31:39 Any Stats questions so far? 14:32:42 QUESTION: If you are a collection maintainer or owner what would you be interested in? 14:34:54 for github api, there is a way to tell if user is a bot: https://api.github.com/users/welcome[bot] type=bot, but I believe this is when the user is a github app 14:35:48 @pabelanger yes, that's only for GitHub Apps and won't catch any bots with regular user accounts 14:36:15 right, the context was ansiblebot and merges 14:36:22 not sure how it is setup 14:37:00 ansibot is not a GitHub App 14:37:11 #action gwmngilfen To see if https://api.github.com/users/welcome[bot] type=bot is useful (though will not help if people are using regular user accounts) 14:37:24 ack 14:38:45 Couldn't attend on monday, could someone provide me the link to the katacoda Ansible ? 14:38:53 gabrielzeven: https://www.katacoda.com/ansible-community/ 14:39:13 awesome! Thanks!! 14:39:35 #info On Monday we publiced https://www.katacoda.com/ansible-community/ for the first time. We have data that shows that it was userfull 14:39:50 gabrielzeven: Any feedback welcome via https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/discussions/119 14:42:39 #info I hope this helps explains why we do surveys, we really need this feedback. You should get a survey link next week 14:42:41 I love Katacoda for both for learning and for "teaching" 14:44:18 gabrielzeven: first time I've used it or created for it. If you know of any good scenarios, or how we can make better use it I'd love to chat 14:44:58 Monday was the first intro to Katacoda for me, looks like it could be really excellent 14:46:02 is that graph public for meetups? 14:46:09 ansible meetup stats 14:46:26 katacoda is really great tool 14:46:50 I used a RHEL Katacoda for teaching Ansible, with several hosts https://katacoda.com/rhel-labs/scenarios/ansible-introduction 14:46:52 I was able to tests kubernetes / openshift feature quickly 14:47:25 pabelanger: yes, let me get you the link 14:47:42 https://stats.eng.ansible.com/apps/meetups/ 14:48:00 Collection stats https://stats.eng.ansible.com/apps/collections/contributors/ 14:48:23 yaaaaay! My last meetup is on the stats! 14:48:55 cybette: great, thanks 14:49:13 gabrielzeven: yes! 14:49:20 Current bubble plot: https://github.com/ansible/community/blob/master/decks/images/community_contributions_bubbleplot.png 14:50:06 It would be cool to add in stuff like checks api 14:50:49 what is gregs IRC handle? 14:51:00 gwmngilfen 14:51:04 danke 14:51:48 #topic Ansible 2.10 14:51:54 o/ 14:52:07 #info Ansible 2.10 was a major change to how Ansible was released. Its `ansible-base` + collections 14:52:09 pabelanger: what checks are those? 14:52:23 gwmngilfen: I'd love to chat more about getting more data into your graphs regarding testing, if there is a better place to talk about it 14:52:37 i'm definitely interested 14:52:50 https://github.com/ansible-collections/vyos.vyos/pull/94/checks for exmaple 14:53:02 happy to schedule some time and chat, whether thats irc or video, both are fine 14:53:13 we have a use chat to see how often we re-run testing on a PR 14:53:19 because tests are unstable 14:53:38 #info New docs https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/2.10/collections/ (notice it's 2.10/collections) 14:53:55 so, naively, that might be a distribution of number of re-runs for each PR? 14:54:06 yes, exactly right 14:54:20 that seems doable 14:54:24 more re-runs, likely mean unstable tests or poor infrastructure 14:54:31 * gwmngilfen looks at the graphql api 14:54:35 felixfontein++ :D 14:54:40 if only takes 1 run, then things are stable and happy 14:54:52 felixfontein^10 14:56:14 he does it in his free time... can not point this out enough. 14:56:15 @pabelanger: I'm not sure if you can retrieve past Checks reruns postmortem, you'd probably have to record those proactively... 14:56:24 wow I lost BJ few sec 14:56:32 baptistemm: is it back now? 14:56:35 yep 14:57:11 webknjaz: agree, that api isn't the best 14:57:17 https://docs.github.com/en/free-pro-team@latest/graphql/reference/objects#checksuite suggests there's a CheckSuite api object, worth digging in a bit 14:57:32 we track it in zuul, and can dump into statsd / graphite / graphana 14:57:34 check suite is a collection of check runs 14:57:47 https://docs.github.com/en/free-pro-team@latest/graphql/reference/objects#checkrun 14:57:52 #info We know there aren't any deb yet. We have to update a lot of the build scripts https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull/issues/202 14:58:03 * gwmngilfen tries it 14:58:23 #info We will be rewriting the `ansible` build scripts hopefully to public GitHub Actions 15:03:06 #info: QUESTION: Will we stick with patch releases every three weeks? 15:04:34 btw perfect work with 2.10 from my point of view 15:04:50 well, we're really suffering because of https://github.com/ansible/galaxy/issues/2302 - we tried to use ansible-minimal and 80% of our CI is failing because at least one job is facing with the connection issue 15:05:43 noonedeadpunk: yeah, that's pretty annoying 15:05:59 and installing from git - seems that not all collections which were moved to community have galaxy.yml so unable to install them from git... 15:06:16 ie https://github.com/ansible-collections/openvswitch.openvswitch has non-valid one 15:06:43 https://github.com/ansible/community/tree/master/meetings#wednesdays 15:07:19 noonedeadpunk: you can simply clone the collection repo to the correct position in many cases 15:08:10 (if the collection itself is at top-level) 15:08:23 for openvswitch, we don't store version in repo, as it is generated at build time via git info 15:08:36 * samccann waves in late 15:08:51 noonedeadpunk: you have to inject fake version until galaxy client can do it 15:09:15 https://github.com/ansible-network/releases/blob/master/ansible_releases/cmd/generate_ansible_collection.py is how we build the collection 15:09:32 pabelanger: well installation with galaxy results with http://paste.openstack.org/show/799085/ 15:09:58 right 15:10:11 install from git was only recently added 15:10:25 when we did our release policy, galaxy was source of truth 15:10:25 ok, I see 15:11:02 IMO, should be able to pass version to ansible-galaxy to populate 15:11:07 but haven't opened PR for that 15:11:20 noonedeadpunk: for some community collection CI, we run `ansible-galaxy collection install` with up to three retries in case it fails. that works pretty well. 15:12:41 well I think it is possible to pass version to git? https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/galaxy/user_guide.html#installing-a-collection-from-a-git-repository 15:13:14 but yeah, I kind of get it.... 15:13:18 pabelanger: do you have an example PR with failed runs and then succeeding? 15:13:26 only when you're requesting the install, not for build 15:13:33 just to make sure this api call is what I think it is :) 15:13:33 #topic Ansible 2.11, the future, policy and governance 15:13:57 yah, it is build process that needs version exposed over hardcoded in galaxy.yaml 15:14:20 I don't recall anybody filing an issue about that 15:14:25 oh, yeah. I guess this approach came from helm charts :p 15:14:26 * nitzmahone wishes collections on Galaxy still defaulted to "pointers to github" vs "storage and distribution of large binary blobs", but alas, that horse has left the barn :( 15:15:04 * webknjaz uses setuptools-scm in Python ecosystem for that 15:18:29 maintaining a collection with that galaxy.yml is a lot more work than maintaining roles on galaxy that can pick up the tags via git tags :P 15:19:27 geerlingguy: yah, that's what some of our tooling we built in zuul does now, still driven by git but now needs thirdparty build scripts 15:19:29 geerlingguy: depends, also on what kind of sanity checks you want to run. if you want to be informed by sanity tests that something has to be removed in this version, or that version_added is wrong, CI needs to know what the next release will be *before* you release it :) 15:19:37 And that's why I try to do something that templates the galaxy.yml and a tag release automation process can fill in the tag at build time 15:20:01 yeah but those are all features for modules, roles don't even do sanity checks 15:20:40 geerlingguy: true :) I'm still mostly thinking about plugins/modules :) 15:23:10 QUESTION: What do people think about more content from community.general into it's dedicated collection? 15:23:37 if it has maintainers, then seems good 15:24:17 well, having goolge in general is frustrating 15:24:31 *google.cloud 15:24:46 as well as community.kubernetes 15:24:59 then we should include openstack as well in general :p 15:27:19 noonedeadpunk: most of the c.g dependencies are used by precisely one module/plugin. community.kubernetes is used by several modules (the kubevirt modules) 15:28:20 noonedeadpunk: https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/issues/354 tracks the dependencies 15:28:35 despite I understand that reasoning, it doesn't sound like "general".... despite how k8s is popular... 15:28:52 dangit...guess I didn't register for today. could have sworn I had :( 15:28:59 oh, I see 15:29:00 noonedeadpunk: general contains everything that didn't have another place :) 15:32:58 ok, that was my broken understanding then :p 15:33:12 general == kitchen sink 15:33:33 trunk I call it 15:33:56 it'd be super nice to figure out a way to deprecate community.general modules that are not maintained (e.g. the kubevirt modules) or move them into something like 'community.unmaintained' 15:34:02 wolcen: some people reported that the confirmation from invite@bluejeans.com went to spam 15:34:03 I thought it more about "minimal required", ie posix here suits well :) 15:34:09 some people said ansible-base is more the kitchen sink 15:34:31 no, ansible-base is the 'lean core', ansible package is the kitchen sink 15:34:37 which includes community.general 15:35:15 yeah, makes sense now 15:35:30 @geerlinguy I like the .unmaintained idea, and if someone commits to reviving it, could be moved out 15:35:39 I definitely see a benefit in dedicated collections, however, felixfontein and andersson007_ are the only really active community members taking care of c.g. 15:37:41 geerlingguy jrglynn2: how can people know if that would be maintained and move back to community.something for example? 15:37:41 But the benefit is there only if someone is willing to put in work of maintaining them. If there is no volunteers, then the content is better kept in a single place. 15:38:10 aminvakil: that's a good question, we would have to figure out some metrics maybe 15:38:13 cybette: thanks! I registered again and was just approved. 15:39:00 wolcen: great! 15:39:08 tadeboro: then maybe we call `community.general` `community.unmaintained` and commit to "if someone doesn't pull a thing out of here and maintain it by [x date], then it will be deprecated and removed from Ansible distribution in 2.13" or something like that 15:39:36 I am all for that, but people did not like my proposal in the past. 15:39:39 I wonder if some of these questions are also tied to how galaxy / package management works. 15:40:02 in any case it's a massive effort, and I don't think andersson007_ and felixfontein will be able to carry on with c.g maintenance indefinitely 15:40:19 I rather see abandoned project die rather that keeping a zombie alive. 15:41:21 geerlingguy: felixfontain and i are really taught guys:) 15:41:42 aminvakil geerlingguy: i agree, i think it would be a combo maybe of metrics (is something starting to be maintained) + communication (reach out to maintaniner, see if it should be moved) 15:42:02 haha I know I know but I want to make it so your amazing abilities can be distributed more evenly among awesome things and not maintaining the sludge that is mixed in with the good bits in community.general 15:44:23 moving things back and forth between two collections (c.g and c.unmaintained), because they get a maintainer, then loose one, then get another one, ..., is also annoying, both for maintainers and users 15:44:53 this is why i'm working on trying to gauge the things that might not be maintained 15:44:57 that is true 15:45:01 felixfontein: I think the idea is nothing will *ever* move back into c.g 15:45:31 only way to go from c.unmaintained is to go into an independent collection where it will be maintained 15:45:38 geerlingguy: i.e. move tsuff from community.unmaintained to community. when maintainer(s) are found? 15:45:44 yes exactly 15:45:49 geerlingguy: that makes sense 15:45:50 what happens if community. gets abandoned? 15:46:08 felixfontein: then it loses its status as being part of the main ansible package 15:46:20 and we just treat it as unmaintained (but it's not in c.unmaintained) 15:46:38 no need to have it be put into some massive collection 15:47:05 I wonder how many dead community.xyz collections we'd collect over time :) 15:47:15 A lot 15:47:21 but that's going to happen one way or another 15:47:22 felixfontein: +1 15:47:39 like if vmware folds, the vmware collections will be defunct... dumb example but it's not a matter of if but when 15:49:00 Plenty of vendors have gone belly-up just in the past decade. Some open source tech that we have modules for will go defunct. 15:49:14 definitely 15:54:54 users may keep those tools on life support in their local environments even after the vendor/project folds, though . . . 15:55:08 yeah 15:55:15 acozine: yep 15:56:17 pabelanger: so after playing with the GitHub GraphQL API for a bit, I *think* we can get all the prior checks on a commit. If you can give me an example one which failed and the was re-run, I can check to be sure. 15:57:56 acozine: they definitely do! 15:59:26 * cyberpear wonders where the video link is 15:59:29 cough COBOL cough 16:00:15 :D 16:00:29 cyberpear: I think everyone who signed up got their personal video link 16:00:39 * cyberpear checks e-mail 16:00:44 I didn't sign up officially until Monday 16:00:45 cyberpear: https://primetime.bluejeans.com/a2m/register/ufuthevw 16:00:47 acozine: but in that case I'd say the user should fork the collection and use their fork locally (same thing has already happened with many, many roles on galaxy in the past) 16:01:34 geerlingguy: yep, it's on them to maintain the collection then, or at least it should be 16:02:49 #agreed Chains that start in ansible-base MUST resolve in the Ansible package 16:03:54 gundalow: I guess eventually that might stop, if we kick out things from Ansible that doesn't follow the guidelines anymore 16:04:03 gwmngilfen: this one had failures and was re-checked: https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/pull/1096 16:04:04 https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/pull/1096 | closed, created 2020-10-14T19:18:17Z by patchback[bot]: [PR #1082/555eb621 backport][stable-1] solaris_zone: fix zone configuration with python3 [affects_2.10,bug,community_review,module,new_contributor,plugins,python3,system,tests] 16:04:24 dmsimard: ta 16:04:54 jillr: thanks for the link! I thought signing up for normal ansible fest was the place to be, with the checkbox for "contributor summit"... no wonder I couldn't find the sessions 16:06:05 yw! 16:06:06 did anyone get to the 2 qns in Bluejeans Q&A (one on fqcn and the other on collections as python packages). my laptop froze and I had to rejoin 16:06:23 861947 16:06:25 oops 16:08:19 dmsimard: pabelanger yep, got all 4 checks 16:09:23 gwmngilfen: dmsimard: yah, per commit is nice, because it is possible the commit in general had bad code 16:09:46 it has to be by commit anyway, thats what GH is testing 16:09:46 more looking for PR commits >1 16:09:52 cool 16:10:50 pabelanger: https://paste.centos.org/view/73f3b8ca 16:11:48 obviously that can be run across many PRs, I singled that one out to test 16:12:15 swap pullRequest(...) for pullRequests(last:10) or something similar 16:12:43 once you have the JSON, wrangling it into a table is easy enough 16:15:44 gwmngilfen: could you use https://github.com/ansible-collections/vyos.vyos/ ? 16:16:02 doing one now :P 16:16:06 but yes, the repo is named on line 2 16:16:20 well, 4 - line 2 of the query :P 16:16:34 but yah, that looks onthe right track 16:16:38 2 failures, 2 success 16:17:24 sorry 16:17:30 3 failures, 1 success 16:17:39 that to me, means we had to recheck 3 times for some reason 16:17:44 yeah, which makes sense, i see 3 recheck commands in the comments 16:17:47 or 25% success rate 16:17:51 nice 16:18:04 that is exactly what we'd want to know, at quick glance 16:18:09 sec, i can totally table this for vyos 16:18:22 ++ 16:22:03 DING DING DING Starting back in 3 minutes 16:26:00 #topic Diversity and Inclusion update 16:26:39 how do we mark Q/A questions, answered? 16:26:45 they are starting to pile up 16:26:55 pabelanger: don't think you can 16:26:57 kk 16:27:09 #info Earlier in the year we setup a D&I working Group 16:27:23 #info We have two D&I sessions during Fest 16:27:40 https://github.com/ansible/community/wiki/Diversity/FAQs 16:28:03 #info We've saved all the questions and will add to https://github.com/ansible/community/wiki/Diversity/FAQs 16:28:03 one reason why I also mute my mic is that one of our cats sometimes comes up and meows a lot for attention :) 16:28:10 felixfontein: https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/issues/1053 can be closed or is there a reason it stayed open ? 16:28:13 #info Feel free to join us in #ansible-diversity 16:28:28 #info This is the first year we had captioning available for some sessions 16:29:16 baptistemm: nope. I sometimes hope that people just close their questions once answered, resp. wait for an answer (i.e. something that triggers github notifications). 16:36:31 pabelanger: gotta run, will finish this up tomorrow and send you a pastebin 16:36:49 #topic Documentation update 16:36:59 gwmngilfen: tyty 16:37:42 #info There are some pages that shouldn't be associated with a specific releases 16:38:35 #info Going forward ansible & ansible-base releases will diverge more. 16:40:15 #info We have a documentation working group breakout at 2000UTC 16:48:01 #info Anyone can and should help with documentation 16:50:43 #link https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/how_can_I_help.html#review-fix-and-maintain-the-documentation 16:52:23 #topic Content Team update 16:52:57 #info Brad and pabelanger give an updated on Content Team 17:04:57 If you are interested in using Ansible with Networking join the Networking Breakout at 2000UTC https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/ansible-contributor-summit-october-2020-network and in #ansible-network 17:05:36 #info index_of: https://github.com/ansible-collections/ansible.utils (for Plugins that are related to data manipulation will go) 17:07:18 #info jillr is now giving an updated on Cloud updates 17:16:36 #topic Release candidates for stable branches & CHAOS (experimental feedback) 17:16:47 #info relrod is now speaking 17:17:19 #info Some features intentionally break the world for the greater-good 17:24:19 * noonedeadpunk excited about RC news 17:24:51 noonedeadpunk: Ace, what in particular excites you? 17:26:31 well, there were several nasty backports lately that kind of broke roles. So we will try to follow RC's I guess and that should prevent from releasing such changes 17:26:31 #info Seperate PyPi project & GitHub repository where we can experiment with features 17:26:51 noonedeadpunk: perfect (well not that the broke), though yup, that's part of RCs 17:27:57 #info Maybe a different entry point, ie `ansible-choas-playbook` so you can it installed along side `ansible-base` 17:29:04 QUESTION: How can we get more people to test ansible & ansible-base RCs? 17:30:12 #topic Role Argument Spec Validation 17:30:21 #info sdoran and Shrews talking 17:30:48 gundalow: well, RC will be announced in ML, right? 17:34:43 noonedeadpunk: correct 17:35:05 * noonedeadpunk subscribes 17:40:24 anyone else got kicked? 17:40:47 the connection is flaky to me I don't know if my ISP or BJ 17:40:53 bcoca: 96 people there, not sure what it was before. I don't get a quit log 17:40:55 +it's 17:41:24 it was 99 when I looked 10 min ago 17:41:33 noonedeadpunk: Are you interested in contributing to Ansible, what areas? 17:41:38 we get the log after the event ends (if people quit/rejoin) 17:45:37 um, we're trying to follow ansible versions and new features so makes sense for us to test master against RC 17:46:13 I'm just actually part of #openstack-ansible team so trying to catch up with all new areas as have a lot of things to improve 17:47:03 noonedeadpunk: Awesome news that you're able to start testing RCs! Please by all means report any bugs you find in them to ansible/ansible, or you can ping in #ansible-devel. :) 17:48:27 sure! 17:49:29 * gundalow -> afk 17:52:56 i keep getting kicked 18:03:41 I'm wondering if we need to find a place to say where to find sphinx themes that are workable for creating your own collection-level docsite? like - https://github.com/felixfontein/felix-ansible-docsite/blob/main/_static/ansible.css 18:04:25 not in official docs/ but maybe ansible-collections/overview? I feel bad directing people to grow their own docs solution, but I don't know how long they'd have to wait for Galaxy to show it 18:05:15 DING DING DING, 55 minute break 18:05:50 samccann: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/docs/docsite/_extensions/pygments_lexer.py is pretty neat too. 18:06:51 as in, making it available outside of ansible/ansible (like the themes) would be nice 18:06:57 I'm not very familiar with how sphinx themes work; would it be possible to create a "theme extension" that adds a small CSS file to an existing theme and something like https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/docs/docsite/_extensions/pygments_lexer.py ? 18:07:12 I second that 18:07:32 can sphinx extensions add CSS (and be theme-independent)? 18:07:45 if yes, that should be very doable 18:08:50 #topic BREAK 18:08:58 you can 'override' a theme with local customization, but i have not done that in 7yrs 18:09:05 I guess the break is a good time to research on that a bit :) 18:09:25 bcoca: I don't want local modifications, but to make it reusable without being theme-specific 18:09:29 well we have the ansible theme someone already pulled out too 18:09:42 (I'm using local modifications now, but that's not reusable without copy'n'paste) 18:10:14 felixfontein: afaik, no, but i have not been deep into sphinx in long time, you were able to either have a theme or override parts of it, but no 'semi themes' that i know of 18:10:26 samccann: but that's a whole theme, not just the important parts for collection docs. it comes with a lot of baggage that for example I do not want to have, like including javascript/css/font from random places on the internet 18:11:58 where "random" = "not under my control" :) 18:27:59 control is an illusion 18:28:01 ;-p 18:28:32 :) 18:33:08 bcoca: there's an extension which copies a .css file: https://github.com/sphinx-contrib/ansi 18:33:35 bcoca: I'm now trying to find out whether that way is recommended / deprecated / there's a better one. that repo has been last modified in 2012. 18:36:11 bcoca: something newer (last modified two days ago): https://github.com/sphinx-contrib/emojicodes 18:36:30 he, gtk 18:36:52 i imagine that using an extension to pile on like the 'local override' does, should not be hard to create 18:37:50 yep 18:53:21 DING DING DING, We are starting in 6 minutes 18:53:54 i was looking for a way to render terminal (ansi) in sphinx too 18:54:11 i anyone finds a decent solution please let me know 18:54:28 zbr: maybe ask in #ansible-docs ? 18:59:29 30 seconds! 18:59:31 zbr: you could probably just do embedded output from https://github.com/buildkite/terminal-to-html in an rst `.. raw:: html` block, but depends on what/how you want it be rendered 19:00:56 #topic Minimum version of Python controller increase 19:02:33 wow, and how about centos 8? 19:03:40 I pointed out that Ubuntu Xenial doesn't have py3.8 available in the default repos 19:03:55 Bionic at least has it as an option, even if it's not the default python 19:04:15 what are not older distros? like I guess only focal has 3.8 and debian sid I guess? 19:05:08 well yeah, 3.8 backport is present for bionic... but centos 8 my real concern 19:05:33 is py3.8 available via SCL for EL8? 19:05:48 3.7 feels like it would be more achievable if targeting all the common LTSes 19:06:23 and why not 3.6? that's not EOL for ~14 months 19:06:29 @agaffney Python 3.8 is available as an appstream in EL8. 19:07:08 I have done very little with CentOS 8, and even less with RHEL in general. I have no idea what an "appstream" is 19:07:24 a alternative repo, with a different life cycle 19:07:30 @agaffney By the time Ansible 2.11 ships next Spring, Python 3.6 will be much closer to EOL. By the time we move to a hard Python 3.x requirement in speculative Ansible 2.12, Python 3.6 will be EOL. 19:07:50 https://docs.centos.org/en-US/8-docs/managing-userspace-components/assembly_using-appstream/ 19:07:53 sdoran: okay, but that doesn't rule out py3.7 like geerlingguy suggested 19:08:14 (speculative Ansible 2.12 or beyond. I don't mean to imply we will have a hard Python 3.x requirement in Ansible 2.12) 19:08:34 well I also can recall some improvements in 3.8 which are really nice ones but cant name them 19:09:29 The walrus operator is a neat one. 19:11:09 so if i were to create a brand new "central" ansible server to install (non-tower) v2.10, what is best OS to use? 19:11:16 https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/ansible-contributor-summit-october-2020-morning Line 162, please add notes there 19:11:29 * agaffney joins on bluejeans to listen to the conversation 19:11:31 agaffney: I believe the reason for aiming for 3.8 was due to the belief that distros that have 3.7 available all have 3.8, so why not aim for 3.8. 19:14:00 does centos8 support py3.8? 19:14:09 I haven't checked recently 19:14:22 Disregard what I said earlier: seems we are planning to have a hard requirement for Python 3.wheteverwedecide in Ansible 2.12. 19:14:26 pabelanger: Yes. 19:14:36 @noonedeadpunk: Fedora 33 already has Python 3.9 FWIW 19:14:46 sdoran: thanks 19:14:53 webknjaz: somebody uses fedora in prod?:) 19:15:02 define "prod" 19:15:13 but yes, I've heard ppl using that too 19:15:16 well, setup openstack on it :p 19:15:39 But i mean fedora lifecycle is 6 month... 19:16:02 pabelanger yes, centos8 runs python 3.8. Checked against some servers here. 19:16:09 so you need the way more maintenances to keep supported version 19:16:17 webknjaz: Fedora is like riding on a rocket 19:16:26 * webknjaz uses Gentoo 19:16:29 does that make me a rocket scientist 19:16:37 and yeah:) agree with geerlingguy here absolutely:) 19:16:49 dmsimard: it does! 19:16:57 \o/ 19:17:42 well, with pyenv you can get 3.8 everywhere... 19:17:53 #topic Execution Environments 19:18:26 #info maxamillion and Shane talking about Execution Execution Environments 19:19:40 noonedeadpunk: fedora lifecycle in rather 2 releases 19:20:46 yeah, I guess I will run my control host on Fedora again 19:21:23 There's also no guarantee that 3.6 stays the "official Python of RHEL8" after it's EOL- that was a huge point of platform-python and appstream pythons, so that the platform-python can be revved when needed because apps/user stuff aren't supposed to be dependent on it. It'll be interesting to see what really happens with that. 19:21:28 a container is good also, you have a defined environment 19:21:55 never tested that though 19:22:04 Even things that are using 3.6 on RHEL8 are *supposed* to be using the 3.6 Appstream 19:22:09 baptistemm: oh, yeah, sorry, it's really 13 month about. but comparing to ubuntu or centos.... 19:22:26 #info This does not mean you will be required to use a container to run/use Ansible. EE provides a nice portable Ansible control node as an option. 19:22:33 while agree that for desktops it's super nice 19:22:41 dmsimard: bindep! 19:23:03 pabelanger: yeah I wasn't sure if I heard that correctly :O 19:23:24 o_O 19:23:28 bindep ? 19:23:48 Yup. It's a good tool. 19:24:02 super nice 19:24:03 https://docs.openstack.org/infra/bindep/readme.html 19:24:11