18:00:21 <gotmax> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 12 18:00:21 2022 UTC.
18:00:22 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:22 <zodbot> The chair is gotmax. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:24 <andersson007__> hi anwesha
18:00:26 <andersson007__> o/
18:00:29 <gotmax> #topic Intro
18:00:37 <gotmax> .hello gotmax23
18:00:38 <zodbot> gotmax: Something blew up, please try again
18:00:41 <zodbot> gotmax: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
18:01:01 <gotmax> .fire zodbot
18:01:01 <zodbot> adamw fires zodbot
18:01:19 <andersson007__> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/ansible-community/2022-09-28/ansible_community_meeting.2022-09-28-18.00.log.html as an example of commands
18:01:28 <anwesha> andersson007__, hey
18:01:45 <gotmax> acozine andersson007_ baptistemm bcoca briantist cyberpear cybette dericcrago dmsimard felixfontein geerlingguy gundalow gwmngilfen ikhan_ jillr jtanner lmodemal misc nitzmahone resmo samccann tadeboro cidrblock thaumos zbr: Community meeting
18:01:46 <DonNaro[m]> evening
18:02:00 <cybette_> o/
18:02:00 <DonNaro[m]> o/
18:02:12 <andersson007__> i think it should be "info"
18:02:14 <DonNaro[m]> hi cybette
18:02:23 <cybette_> hi Don Naro :)
18:02:45 <andersson007__> gotmax: not worries, don't rush
18:03:09 <gotmax> I was going to wait another minute for people to come in
18:03:28 <andersson007__> ah, ok
18:03:40 <andersson007__> then we can chair all at once:)
18:03:57 <cybette_> is there a lag? I see the topic change but I don't see the messages that invoked it
18:03:58 <gotmax> Ah, I forgot to do that
18:04:13 <gotmax> #chair andersson007__ cybette_ DonNaro[m] gotmax[m]
18:04:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: DonNaro[m] andersson007__ cybette_ gotmax gotmax[m]
18:04:22 <gotmax> Okay
18:04:26 <gotmax> #topic Info
18:04:29 <gotmax> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/645 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:04:54 <gotmax> #info ansible-core 2.12.10, 2.13.5, and 2.14.0b3 were released this week
18:04:58 <andersson007__> i have one but i'd wait a bit
18:05:16 <andersson007__> #chair anwesha
18:05:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: DonNaro[m] andersson007__ anwesha cybette_ gotmax gotmax[m]
18:05:50 <gotmax> There's a couple issues tagged with meeting
18:06:05 <gotmax> I think we've already addressed the editor configs one?
18:06:08 <cybette_> #info ansible-core 2.14.0b3 (3rd beta) has been released https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-devel/c/s2EwCSbS_hM
18:06:10 <cybette_> #info ansible-core 2.13.5 and ansible-core 2.12.10 have been released: https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-devel/c/k6FX5XNH9ww
18:06:44 <mariolenz[m]> o/
18:06:46 <andersson007__> #info the question to Legal about removing/not including stuff from collection artifacts has been sent
18:06:52 <gotmax> #chair mariolenz[m]
18:06:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: DonNaro[m] andersson007__ anwesha cybette_ gotmax gotmax[m] mariolenz[m]
18:07:00 <gotmax> andersson007__++
18:07:21 <gotmax> I guess we can move on to my ticket about release tagging :)?
18:07:33 <cybette_> #info Ansible Contributor Summit 2022.10 HackMD - get all the info here, where/when/how to join, what sessions and tracks are available and some details about them: https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/contrib-summit-202210
18:07:34 <cybette_> #info Breakout rooms info and live-stream links will be shared shortly. As long as you're in the main conference room on the day (#summit:ansible.com on Matrix, #ansible-conf on Libera Chat) you'll see the signposts for them
18:08:31 <gotmax> Okay, let's move on
18:08:43 <cybette_> ok I'm done :)
18:08:45 <gotmax> #topic Collections that don't tag releases - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/148
18:08:52 <andersson007__> wait
18:08:56 <gotmax> #undo
18:08:56 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f0df04b1dd8>
18:09:06 <andersson007__> #info I'm happy to announce that Maxwell G (aka [gotmax23](https://github.com/gotmax23) on GitHub, gotmax on Matrix) has joined the [Steering Committee](https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/community/steering/community_steering_committee.html) !!!
18:09:08 <andersson007__> :)
18:09:16 <andersson007__> thank you gotmax !
18:09:23 <cybette_> 🎉
18:09:31 <andersson007__> for contributing to the community and the project!
18:09:49 <cybette_> congrats gotmax!
18:09:51 <andersson007__> we are happy to have you on board!
18:09:59 <gotmax> Thanks :)
18:10:06 <anwesha> gotmax, Congratulations
18:11:02 <andersson007__> 👍
18:11:15 <gotmax> Any other announcements ;)?
18:11:28 <andersson007__> i think we hadn't expanded since early spring
18:11:51 <andersson007__> nice to see new people coming
18:12:09 <gotmax> Indeed :)
18:12:16 <DonNaro[m]> congrats gotmax
18:13:34 <cybette_> exciting nows :) and I think now we can move on to discussion topics
18:13:42 <gotmax> #topic Collections that don't tag releases - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/148
18:13:48 <gotmax> Second time's the charm
18:14:18 <gotmax> Basically, there's at least seven collections that don't git tag their releases
18:14:25 <gotmax> This is a violation of the collection guidelines
18:14:39 <gotmax> I'd like to clarify those guidelines and then file issues against those collections
18:15:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:01 <andersson007__> sounds good to me
18:15:28 <gotmax> I proposed new text: #topic Collections that don't tag releases - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/148
18:15:52 <gotmax> I guess I'll wait for some initial comments and then create a PR/start a vote
18:16:29 <andersson007__> after the clarifications are made, as i see the process 1) open issues in the repos 2) if no response/actions within some time, we'll create removal issues, i think
18:17:11 <gotmax> Makes sense to me
18:17:45 <mariolenz[m]> I think there are 5: mellanox.onyx is unmaintained (we've voted on this) and cisco.nso also looks unmaintained. But yes, we need to decide what to do with those 5 collections.
18:17:46 <andersson007__> should we prepare a justification? we, of course, can say just that it's a requirement
18:18:36 <gotmax> Eventually, I'd like to add collections' repository URLs to ansible-build-data and have an automated check to make sure the releases are tagged
18:19:08 <andersson007__> any automation would be great
18:19:11 <gotmax> andersson007__: A justification for removing cisco.nso or a justification for the proposed wording change?
18:19:35 <andersson007__> gotmax: a justification for tagging releases
18:19:45 <andersson007__> in case the question appears
18:19:56 <andersson007__> i.e. "why?"
18:20:01 <gotmax> Good point
18:20:03 <mariolenz[m]> Or to tag releases? I think it's already a requirement, MUST is quite clear.
18:21:41 <gotmax> andersson007__: Mainly, collections artifacts should be reproducible and verifiable.
18:21:55 <gotmax> This willll be more important if we start removing tests from collections
18:22:09 <gotmax> s/willll/will/
18:22:11 <andersson007__> :) i think we don't need any justification at least at the moment, generally
18:22:17 <cybette_> tagging is in the collection requirements. were these collections grandfathered in that's why they slipped through without tagging releases?
18:22:18 <andersson007__> it's just a requirement
18:22:29 <andersson007__> if someone raises the topic, we could discuss
18:22:30 <andersson007__> there
18:22:40 <gotmax> andersson007__: Works for me
18:22:41 <andersson007__> the topic about tagging to be specific
18:22:44 <andersson007__> yep
18:22:59 <andersson007__> gotmax: ok, forget my question then:)
18:23:07 <gotmax> "Any changes made during the build process MUST be clearly documented so the collection artifact can be reproduced" provides kind of touches on this
18:23:19 <gotmax> cybette_: I think some collections just don't follow the rules
18:23:36 <gotmax> I don't think is (as much of) a problem with community collections
18:24:33 <andersson007__> i also saw situations where there were tags in collections but on Galaxy there was a mismatch
18:24:59 <gotmax> You mean the contents were different?
18:25:04 <andersson007__> e.g. the last tag in repo was older by version than on Galaxy or vice versa
18:25:11 <gotmax> Ah, yes
18:25:57 <gotmax> I don't think that's a guidelines violation, but it's confusing and should not happen
18:26:17 <andersson007__> maybe we should also advertise Zuul for auto publishing
18:26:30 <andersson007__> in the requirements
18:26:43 <mariolenz[m]> We have a process for removing collections because they look unmaintained. But I don't think we one to remove collections that fail requirements after they've been included. Maybe we should do this.
18:26:49 * gotmax is not super familiar with how that process works
18:27:31 <gotmax> mariolenz[m]: I think they should be removed if they don't follow the guidelines *and* don't fix issues that are pointed out to them
18:27:51 <andersson007__> gotmax: basically, if you do what's written in https://github.com/ansible/zuul-config/README.md, zuul, when seeing a tag, will publish the targall on Galaxy
18:28:09 <gotmax> I think not fixing issues could count as being unresponsive and then fall under the current policy
18:28:19 <andersson007__> https://github.com/ansible/zuul-config/blob/master/README.rst sorry
18:28:58 <andersson007__> i believe to follow the requirements is a requirement:)
18:29:13 <gotmax> But how does it have access to collections outside of the community namespace?
18:29:14 <andersson007__> i.e. included collections must satisfy
18:29:31 <gotmax> I mean permissions to the namespace on Galaxy
18:29:38 <andersson007__> gotmax: i don't know how it works under the hood
18:30:02 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:06 <andersson007__> we can ask in galaxy channel
18:30:11 <gotmax> As long as any collection can participate (which seems to be the case), I'm fine with recommending that
18:30:23 <gotmax> Although maybe it should be a separate discussion
18:30:32 <andersson007__> sounds sensible
18:30:43 <mariolenz[m]> gotmax: I agree, but did we document this somewhere?
18:30:46 <andersson007__> about having the separate discussion
18:31:03 <gotmax> mariolenz[m]: Document which thing :)?
18:32:09 <mariolenz[m]> Removing collections that fail requirements.
18:33:07 <gotmax> I guess we should clarify that
18:33:22 <andersson007__> by adding something to https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst
18:33:25 <andersson007__> i think
18:33:34 <gotmax> Yeah, we could add a condition to https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst#id26
18:34:12 <gotmax> I guess I'll #action the things I said I'd do :)
18:34:34 <andersson007__> +1
18:34:43 <gotmax> #action gotmax[m] to submit a PR and start a vote on the proposed guidelines changing after a couple days if there's no major objections
18:35:13 <gotmax> #action gotmax[m] to look into automation to ensure Galaxy collection releases are tagged
18:35:32 <andersson007__> i think it can be derived indirectly from "The collection for inclusion must follow the requirements" but it sounds appropriate to have it written somewhere directly
18:35:43 <andersson007__> nice
18:35:48 <andersson007__> gotmax: thanks!
18:36:49 <gotmax> #info We'll create a separate issue to discuss considering collections that don't fix guidelines violations unmaintained under https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst#id26
18:36:49 <andersson007__> how about adding clarification that collections can be removed if they don't follow requirements ?
18:36:50 <mariolenz[m]> https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst mentions broken and unmaintained collections, but doesn't talk about collections failing requirements.
18:37:28 <andersson007__> mariolenz[m]: it's a good point, yes, we agreed a bit above on adding this
18:37:38 <gotmax> #info We'll create a separate issue to discuss recommending collection use Zuul for Galaxy releases (https://github.com/ansible/zuul-config/)
18:37:48 <andersson007__> mariolenz[m]:
18:37:56 <andersson007__> mariolenz[m]: it should be added
18:38:06 <andersson007__> if no one wants, i could
18:38:14 <andersson007__> but if someone wants, welcome
18:38:40 <andersson007__> to update https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst#id26 + Create an issue to vote
18:38:57 <andersson007__> or we could create an issue first, then update
18:39:24 <mariolenz[m]> I think that we should add we'll remove collections that don't implement all requirements.
18:39:38 <andersson007__> +1
18:40:23 <gotmax> I think there needs to be a warning and we should have a set waiting period before starting the removal process
18:40:34 <andersson007__> sure
18:41:04 <andersson007__> i think it should reflect the processes already described in the removal doc
18:41:26 * gotmax nods
18:41:55 <andersson007__> feels like it's a very productive meeting today:)
18:42:12 <gotmax> :)
18:43:16 <andersson007__> so how will we proceed with this?
18:43:51 <gotmax> Well we need to create an issue against community-topics and/or a PR
18:44:06 * gotmax is not yet familiar with the exact processes
18:44:52 <andersson007__> we could 1) create the topic + the PR or 2) only the topic, then the PR if there's support for the idea
18:45:06 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:21 <gotmax> I don't mind either way.
18:45:26 <andersson007__> me too
18:45:35 <gotmax> Who wants to do that :)?
18:45:40 <andersson007__> i could
18:46:00 * andersson007__ setting up a reminder
18:46:42 <gotmax> #action andersson007__ to create an issue re. the unmaintained collection process changes
18:46:55 <andersson007__> gotmax: thanks! was typing the same:)
18:47:03 <gotmax> Oops :)
18:47:26 <andersson007__> gotmax: you'll save me from typing several words, thanks:)
18:47:33 <andersson007__> several more words
18:48:11 <gotmax> We're nearing the end, so I'd like to move on if there's nothing else pressing about this topic
18:48:32 <andersson007__> sure
18:48:38 <andersson007__> not from me
18:49:01 <gotmax> #topic Inclusion requirement - editor configs, and the meaning of "unnecessary" - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/138
18:49:10 <gotmax> I think we just need to merge the PR here?
18:49:55 <gotmax> It's tagged as meeting, so I figured I'd touch on it
18:50:45 * andersson007__ looking
18:51:31 <cybette_> btw, there's a topic for today's meeting according to the ansible 7 roadmap (https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/roadmap/COLLECTIONS_7.html) - "List any backwards incompatible collection releases that beta1 should try to accommodate." I'm not sure if there's anything to discuss but I thought I'd mention it.
18:55:29 <gotmax> It looks like andersson007__ merged the PR, so I'll move on to open floor
18:55:33 <gotmax> #topic Open Floor
18:55:46 <andersson007__> gotmax: I've merged the PR and it closed the issue, I added a comment for briantist. Thanks for reminding about the topic!
18:56:08 <gotmax> I don't think it's worth discussing the flatmapping issue in depth without felixfontein
18:57:16 <gotmax> andersson007__: Sure!
18:57:20 <andersson007__> yep
18:58:45 <bcoca> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/75116
19:00:14 <gotmax> bcoca: Looks like you have a merge commit remnant https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/75116/files#diff-ffb7d7139b0bce523da8e29927b84ced4210df9a774b763ccfccb5c57ef0b932
19:00:28 <gotmax> Anyways, the time has come
19:00:32 <gotmax> #endmeeting