19:00:22 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
19:00:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 18 19:00:22 2023 UTC.
19:00:22 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:00:22 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:00:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
19:00:22 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
19:00:26 <felixfontein> acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting now!
19:00:31 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
19:00:34 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
19:00:37 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
19:00:49 <felixfontein> ][[''''''''''''''
19:00:56 <maxamillion> .hello2
19:00:58 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
19:01:03 <felixfontein> sorry :)
19:01:06 <felixfontein> #chair maxamillion
19:01:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein maxamillion
19:01:22 <maxamillion> oooo, fancy
19:01:28 <maxamillion> lol
19:01:31 <oranod> hello all
19:01:32 <oranod> o/
19:01:40 <felixfontein> #chair oranod
19:01:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein maxamillion oranod
19:01:47 <samccann> o/
19:02:00 <felixfontein> #chair samccann
19:02:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein maxamillion oranod samccann
19:02:10 <andersson007___> o/
19:02:31 <mariolenz[m]> o/
19:02:34 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007___ mariolenz[m]
19:02:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] maxamillion oranod samccann
19:04:07 <mariolenz[m]> FYI, there are two votes in progress: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/categories/votes-in-progress
19:04:36 <felixfontein> #info https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/181 and https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/182 are active votes (removal of community.google and community.skydive from Ansible 9)
19:05:08 <felixfontein> especially the former needs more votes!
19:05:32 * maxamillion looks
19:05:38 <mariolenz[m]> Apart from the votes, what do you think about https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/180 ?
19:05:53 <felixfontein> that's a topic for later
19:06:04 <felixfontein> let's first talk about the roadmap for Ansible 8
19:06:12 <felixfontein> #topic Roadmap for Ansible 8
19:06:20 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79598
19:06:25 <mariolenz[m]> OK
19:06:32 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/176
19:06:56 <felixfontein> acozine prepared a proposal (https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79598), we should finalize it and vote on it ASAP
19:07:38 <felixfontein> the main feature of this time's roadmap is that Ansible 8.0.0 should be released two (or at most three) weeks after ansible-core 2.15.0, and 8.1.0 will be a day after 2.15.1
19:08:11 <felixfontein> what do you all think about it?
19:08:15 <resmo> o/
19:08:49 <andersson007___> SGTM
19:09:09 <felixfontein> #chair resmo
19:09:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] maxamillion oranod resmo samccann
19:09:22 <felixfontein> if nobody has objections I will start a vote on it later today
19:09:51 <acozine> o/
19:10:04 <maxamillion> felixfontein: +1
19:10:05 <felixfontein> #chair acozine
19:10:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] maxamillion oranod resmo samccann
19:10:06 <andersson007___> +1 for vote
19:10:19 <samccann> felixfontein: it will be important to get the approval of whomever is doing those releases.
19:10:24 <mariolenz[m]> agree
19:10:42 <felixfontein> samccann: true
19:11:12 <felixfontein> I've pinged them in the PR
19:11:32 <felixfontein> once they say it's OK I'll start the vote then :)
19:12:36 <felixfontein> ok, if anyone still wants to comment on this, add a comment to the PR (or the discussion topic)
19:12:46 <felixfontein> #topic Keep cyberark.pas in Ansible 8?
19:12:48 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/180
19:13:11 <felixfontein> it looks like they really started updating their collection and fixing problems
19:13:40 <felixfontein> I think we should vote on cancelling the removal process. nobody made comments against that in the discussion topic so far...
19:13:43 <felixfontein> what do you think?
19:14:02 <felixfontein> (I would vote to keep them in Ansible 8)
19:14:05 <samccann> SGTM
19:14:26 <andersson007___> sgtm too
19:15:05 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:15:16 <maxamillion> sgtm as well
19:15:17 <oranod> same here. sgtm.
19:15:20 <andersson007___> great to see someone cares about previously abandoned stuff
19:15:20 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: since you mentioned this earlier, is there something you want to add?
19:16:01 <Warkdev[m]> sgtm
19:16:22 <felixfontein> #chair Warkdev[m]
19:16:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: Warkdev[m] acozine andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] maxamillion oranod resmo samccann
19:16:24 <mariolenz[m]> Nope. I've already commented in the issue that I tend to keep the collection. So I'm fine with voting on this.
19:16:40 <acozine> I'm fine with keeping cyberark
19:17:03 <felixfontein> cool! then I'll create a vote after the meeting
19:17:26 <felixfontein> #topic Definition and workflow for Ansible release blockers
19:17:29 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/pull/194
19:17:39 <felixfontein> andersson007___ created a PR with a concrete proposal
19:18:08 <felixfontein> what do folks think? do we need a better / more precise definition, or is this good enough (as the first step)?
19:18:46 <andersson007___> i deliberately kept it broad
19:18:49 <andersson007___> enough
19:18:59 <andersson007___> imo
19:19:51 <maxamillion> I like it
19:20:05 <felixfontein> do you folks think we should vote on this? or actually just merge this? I'm currently tending to just merge it if everyone seems happy with it
19:20:12 <mariolenz[m]> Gives us some flexibility. I'm fine with it.
19:20:24 <acozine> I'm in favor of merging.
19:20:39 <andersson007___> me to:)
19:20:39 <maxamillion> merge!
19:21:01 <felixfontein> great :) if nobody objects until the end of the meeting, I'll press the button
19:21:06 <samccann> merge away
19:21:11 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein start a vote on keeping cyberark.pas
19:21:25 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein merge https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/pull/194 if nobody objects until the end of the meeting
19:21:48 <felixfontein> finally some actions for me that aren't too much work ;)
19:22:27 <andersson007___> mariolenz[m]: thanks for feedback on wording and typos!
19:22:58 <felixfontein> #topic Improve Ansible PyPI README
19:22:59 <andersson007___> or on mistakes i would say:)
19:23:02 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/173
19:23:07 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull/pull/474
19:23:24 <felixfontein> we started this in early December, and then forgot about it over winter holidays it seems :)
19:24:26 <felixfontein> IIRC we were discussing whether to adjust the design principles
19:25:42 <felixfontein> what do you think about voting on it to merge it as-is, and create a follow-up for the design decisions (as that's potentially more controversial and we do not have a concrete proposal yet)?
19:26:02 <samccann> +1 for merging as is
19:26:11 <maxamillion> +1 to merging as is
19:26:35 <felixfontein> if nobody objects I'll create a vote for that as well, then you can +1 there as well ;)
19:26:39 <acozine> +1 to merging as is, it's an improvement over what we have, and we can iterate from there
19:26:50 <felixfontein> I fully agree on that
19:26:53 <samccann> vote early, vote often
19:26:59 <felixfontein> :)
19:27:00 <mariolenz[m]> sounds reasonable
19:27:33 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein create vote for merging https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull/pull/474 as-is (design principles can be discussed and adjusted in a follow-up if someone wants to create a proposal)
19:27:37 <felixfontein> great, thanks!
19:28:30 <felixfontein> is there something else folks want to talk about?
19:28:43 <felixfontein> there's still https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/167 but it might be a long one for the remaining half an hour
19:29:44 <oranod> I've got a couple of updates on those two community topics I created for the docsite user experience and opening up the publishing process. if nobody else has anything for the agenda.
19:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:30:09 <felixfontein> #topic Docsite related things
19:30:15 <felixfontein> oranod: here you go :)
19:30:24 <samccann> :-)
19:30:34 <oranod> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/174
19:31:13 <maxamillion> wait, what happened to 167?
19:31:54 <oranod> maxamillion: let's go back to that. I probably should've given it more time.
19:31:57 <felixfontein> maxamillion: nobody said they want to discuss it now
19:32:05 <maxamillion> ah ok
19:32:18 <felixfontein> let's talk a bit about docsite first, and then switch back
19:32:51 <maxamillion> sounds good
19:32:56 <felixfontein> maxamillion: you can also directly comment on 167 if you want :)
19:33:03 <andersson007___> 167 seems good to start a meeting with, not to end with:)
19:33:09 <maxamillion> yeah, sorry ... I'm multitasking badly and didn't notice the lagtime on that one
19:33:12 <maxamillion> lol
19:34:34 <felixfontein> wow, 30 mins build time for the docsite
19:35:04 <oranod> yeah it runs faster than I thought
19:35:31 <felixfontein> the nice thing is that with it, everyone can take a look at the log output ... in particular see which collections/plugins are causing trouble
19:36:13 <acozine> 30 minutes is speedy for the docs build!
19:36:18 <acozine> nice work
19:36:20 <oranod> yeah eventually I'd like to start tackling some of those warnings and other issues and try to get clean build logs
19:36:34 <maxamillion> 30 minutes is speedy?
19:36:36 <maxamillion> ouch
19:36:50 <acozine> comparatively, yes maxamillion esp. since collections
19:36:54 <felixfontein> sphinx with a huge amount of .rst files and cross-references is slow :)
19:37:07 <maxamillion> oof
19:37:08 <oranod> it took a pretty chonky vm to get it to run. m5.xlarge. and I tried a few different options, like using a smaller instance and setting the CPUS with the make command.
19:37:38 <maxamillion> is it cpu bound or i/o bound?
19:37:59 <felixfontein> there's definitely a high memory requirement
19:38:27 <maxamillion> ah, that sounds right ... probably a lot of deeply nested dicts
19:38:44 <felixfontein> yeah, and LOTS of references (also thanks to breadcrumbs)
19:38:44 <acozine> yeah, memory was usually the constraint
19:39:03 <felixfontein> breadcrumbs are really nice, but also make sphinx really eat up memory
19:39:03 <acozine> the end result is worth it, from a user experience perspective
19:39:07 <acozine> but it is a slow beast
19:39:08 <felixfontein> I agree
19:39:30 <oranod> so do folks here think this is going to be a good option? shall we proceed?
19:39:34 <maxamillion> the linux kernel uses sphinx these days, I wonder long it takes to build their docs
19:39:55 <maxamillion> errr sorry, none of that is relevant .... I'll take my curiosities offline :)
19:40:09 <samccann> Don Naro: is it at a point where someone from community could give it a try for test site only?
19:40:10 <acozine> Don Naro: sorry, I've lost track of what we are (or are not) proceeding with . . . ?
19:40:23 <acozine> nm, found the issue
19:40:26 <oranod> sorry, acozine I mean the gh action
19:40:33 <oranod> ah ok. yeah 174
19:40:58 <felixfontein> oranod: does the GH action also publish to docs.ansible.com?
19:41:02 <oranod> samccann: that's a good call. maybe I can set it up for docs.testing.ansible and let folks try it out.
19:41:11 <felixfontein> (or is that the goal, but not there yet?)
19:41:19 <felixfontein> ah
19:41:25 <felixfontein> in any case, I like this :)
19:41:29 <samccann> yeah my nickel would be to have it for test only so people can kick the tires and not impact actual user docs
19:41:38 <oranod> felixfontein: not just yet but that's the goal. the "publish" is basically an rsync of html to a web server.
19:41:54 <acozine> +1 for let's try it for docs.testing and get some feedback
19:42:03 <felixfontein> especially being able to look at the logs without bugging the docs team or someone else with access :)
19:42:30 <oranod> ok, thanks. that sounds great and I'll set it up a "live" demo for folks to play with.
19:42:51 <oranod> I'll move on to the next thing I wanted to ask if that's ok
19:42:53 <felixfontein> cool, thanks a lot!
19:42:54 <felixfontein> sure
19:43:00 <oranod> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/175
19:43:24 <oranod> for this one samccann and I have been working on some docsite personas and we would like to get feedback
19:44:16 <oranod> we're using these personas to help create better entry points to Ansible documentation and map out user journeys
19:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:45:06 <oranod> if folks could please have a look at the personas here: https://hackmd.io/pZb5w5JFRQW3RJ73n23tlw?both#/
19:45:06 <oranod> and then add comments to the hackmd or to the issue, that'd be deadly
19:45:38 <felixfontein> #info Please take a look at docsite personas defined here: https://hackmd.io/pZb5w5JFRQW3RJ73n23tlw?both#/
19:46:01 <oranod> thanks felixfontein forgot the info tag!
19:46:50 <felixfontein> aaaaw https://i.imgur.com/aseD8ux.png :)
19:46:54 <oranod> #info Please also feel free to look at the demo docsite here and provide feedback. this might help demonstrate how we're putting those personas to use: https://people.redhat.com/dnaro/docsite-demo/
19:47:31 <oranod> just bear in mind that the demo docsite is still very much a wip. I really only started with it earlier today so there is a lot to be done yet.
19:48:09 <samccann> yeah the demo site gives an idea of the proposed 'flow'... and it uses those personas to start each journey so to speak (new user, creator, developer, etc)
19:48:51 <samccann> Don Naro: we should probably hold a VOTE on the docsite personas at some point, just so we know people are looking at it etc
19:49:52 <oranod> samccann: what would the vote achieve? +1 indicates you feel the personas are ok and complete?
19:50:11 <samccann> yes. It's just a way to document that yes, people actually read it etc
19:50:23 <samccann> otherwise we go hog wild and someone complains they never heard of it etc
19:50:40 <andersson007___> sgtm
19:50:44 <felixfontein> +1
19:51:03 <felixfontein> the vote would need to say what to do if you don't want to add +1 because you disagree with something ;)
19:52:26 <samccann> A so a new community-topic to say 'discuss personas' and then in discussions, a VOTE to actually cast the vote?
19:54:20 <felixfontein> a vote while the thing is still modified sounds a bit strange to me
19:54:47 <samccann> ok so 1 week discuss, then at next thurs. meeting we have an issue to vote?
19:55:29 <felixfontein> sounds good. make sure to announce it in bullhorn and all over irc/matrix :)
19:55:59 <oranod> I plan to hit the bullhorn tomorrow and ask for feedback
19:56:05 <felixfontein> :+1:
19:56:24 <samccann> woot! happy to see progress on this. Thanks Don Naro
19:56:37 <andersson007___> +1
19:57:21 <felixfontein> ok, let's have a quick open floor :)
19:57:23 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
19:57:31 <felixfontein> does anyone have something quick for the last few minutes?
19:57:38 <mariolenz[m]> Nothing to discuss, just FYI: I'm not sure if you've seen this, but there are now some scripts that I hope can be helpful to generate the text for Bullhorn announcements. At least for some of our community processes: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/tree/main/scripts
19:57:58 <felixfontein> I really like scripts for that
19:58:04 <felixfontein> we should add more :)
19:58:05 <andersson007___> +1
19:58:19 <samccann> automate all the things!!
20:01:02 <felixfontein> ok, thanks everyone!
20:01:04 <felixfontein> #endmeeting