19:01:28 <jillr> #startmeeting Ansible D&I WG Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/577
19:01:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar  4 19:01:28 2021 UTC.
19:01:28 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:01:28 <zodbot> The chair is jillr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_d&i_wg_agenda:_https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/577'
19:01:50 <jillr> #info https://www.ansible.com/community/events/ansible-meetups has been updated to include a link to the CoC
19:02:09 <jillr> #chair tadeboro samccann misc
19:02:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: jillr misc samccann tadeboro
19:02:20 <jillr> #chair gundalow
19:02:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro
19:02:27 <felixfontein> o/
19:02:35 <jillr> #chair felixfontein
19:02:35 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro
19:03:24 <jillr> #topic Recipient list for codeofconduct@ emails
19:04:09 <jillr> right now they're only going to robyn
19:04:30 <jillr> cybette: did you want to propose a different recipient list, or something else on this topic?
19:05:26 <misc> only robyn seems suboptimal, between her having days off from time to time, and/or spending time in a metal tube :/
19:05:45 <misc> (granted, the 2nd is happening less often at the moment)
19:05:57 <jillr> it briefly came up internally before it was added to the agenda, I think the idea was to have it go to a short list
19:06:11 <samccann> +1 for a short list
19:06:45 <jillr> iirc it had previously just gone to gregdek so robyn basically just inherited it
19:07:17 <jillr> ideally whoever is on that list should have some sort of training in CoC response handling
19:07:47 <jillr> I don't actually know if Red Hat offers anything like that to employees, seems like something we might have though
19:08:03 <misc> no, but I know Fedora was looking at it
19:08:23 <misc> mnordin aka riecatnor can tell more, but she is on PTO at the moment
19:08:29 <felixfontein> also +1 for short list
19:08:29 <samccann> yeah, I wouldn't feel comfy being on that list for example, cuz I wouldn't know how to react etc
19:08:56 <samccann> Is there some kind of Ansible Council of Elders or something? Maybe they handle it?
19:09:02 * samccann hopes she didn't dream up that title
19:09:29 <jillr> I've had de-escalation training and other type of incident response training for others things so I'd feel ok, but I'd like to also do a CoC specific training if one was available
19:09:52 <jillr> samccann: there was that, there will also be a steering commitee in the extremely near future
19:09:59 <felixfontein> samccann: there used to be, but it hasn't been active for some time, and it's now replaced by ^
19:10:03 <felixfontein> (too slow :) )
19:11:27 <jillr> we could propose that the steering commitee handle it, and let that group vote on it, but these are 2 different roles that not everyone who is on the commitee might be comfortable with
19:11:36 <jillr> now or in the fiuture
19:11:42 <jillr> *future
19:11:52 <misc> do we have a idea of the amount of requests we have seen so far ?
19:11:55 <felixfontein> I agree
19:12:17 <jillr> I think having a separate safety team that's opt-in would be better
19:12:24 <misc> +1 for separate
19:12:26 <jillr> misc: I don't think we do
19:13:16 <misc> cause Fedora incident have been trough the roof last year:
19:13:20 <misc> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-code-of-conduct-report-2020/
19:14:07 <misc> (we are still unsure why, but some hypothesis are: maturity of reporting system, people being anxious due to pandemics, and people speaking more easily to marie cause she was part of the community since a long time)
19:14:28 <jillr> ah, I was just going to ask about any cause analysis
19:15:52 <jillr> so in the short term, it sounds like we should find a few volunteers to form a safety team?
19:16:18 <jillr> then figure out, naybe with fedora's help, if there are any trainings we can provide to those people
19:17:03 <jillr> assuming robyn/the community team agree with our ideas :)
19:17:12 <samccann> sounds like a plan
19:17:38 <jillr> #action jill to connect with robyn about having a safety team for CoC response
19:20:50 <jillr> #topic open floor
19:20:53 <misc> yeah, Fedora is looking at sage sharp workshop
19:21:02 <misc> (from otter tech)
19:21:03 <jillr> ooh yay I would sign up for that
19:21:34 <samccann> if fedora is further along this D&I path, are there steps/lessons we can learn and implement here?
19:21:47 <misc> i guess so
19:21:59 <misc> not sure if we published anything community central already on that topic
19:22:40 <misc> we didn't
19:24:37 <misc> but I guess it doesn't hurt to get either matthew or marie in the meeting next time, I can take care of that
19:24:51 <jillr> that would be awesome, thanks
19:25:11 <jillr> #action misc to connect us with Fedora's D&I / CoC folks
19:25:18 <felixfontein> cool!
19:25:42 <jillr> I didn't put it on the agenda but since we're on open floor,
19:25:53 <jillr> #topic Meetup organizer CoC survey update
19:26:44 <jillr> cybette and I met with gwmngilfen tearlier today and went over the notes for the survey, https://hackmd.io/YiBvALjKSFqtVTXzoY-I7A
19:27:13 * gregdek hullos from the great beyond :) -- I think that the coc email actually went to multiple people on my team, but yes, robyn can double check
19:27:20 <jillr> I have an action to update the question list based on the conversation we had and come up with a surveymonkey-compatible markdown version of the survey
19:27:33 <jillr> gregdek: ah, it definitely does not any longer - and hi!!
19:28:23 <jillr> once we have the survey built we'll get it in front of a sample of trusted folks in different countries to make sure it reads the way we expect for people who speak english as a second (or third, etc) language
19:28:37 <jillr> then make any updates as needed before sending it to actual meetup organizers
19:28:47 <misc> I love nitpicking other people texts :p
19:28:55 <misc> (well not love, I feel bad, but I am good at it)
19:29:07 <felixfontein> gregdek: can you comment on < misc> do we have a idea of the amount of requests we have seen so far ?
19:29:09 <jillr> misc: you were one of the people we said we should ask to review  :)
19:29:25 <jillr> and felix
19:29:58 <felixfontein> I can help reading it
19:30:12 <gregdek> I saw I think 3 in 5 years. I would like to say that's because we are all excellent to each other, and maybe that's true, but it's also possible that it's not visible enough.
19:30:55 <jillr> gregdek: I wonder how many were not reported to the email address though,
19:31:20 <jillr> I've seen at least 3 things handled directly by ansible staff in the last 2 years, that I don't know if they got a follow-up email
19:31:41 <jillr> I've asked my team to always follow up with an email if they intervene in something, but that may not be commonplace?
19:31:41 <misc> yeah, I also seen one directly handled by ansible staff
19:31:49 <misc> (long time ago)
19:32:35 <gregdek> Fair questions. I do think that if you go looking for a way to report a violation, it's pretty easy to find -- google "ansible code of conduct" takes you straight to a definitive action.
19:32:45 <jillr> gundalow: ^relevant to the question I pinged you in the Ansible new-hire doc the other day, we might want an internal convo about CoC handling
19:32:56 <jillr> #topic historical handling of CoC violations
19:33:41 <jillr> I appreciate that we're all empowered to step in, but we should make sure we're being consistent and keeping track of things
19:34:15 <felixfontein> having some (even public?) guidelines how CoC violation reports should be handled would be great
19:34:29 <cybette> I just found this CoC for ansiblefest https://www.ansible.com/community/events/code-of-conduct
19:34:35 <cybette> it has different emails for reporting
19:34:56 <misc> I think that go to marketing
19:34:58 <jillr> yeah RH has staff that go to larger events for thigns like this
19:35:18 <jillr> for emergency @ redhat.com
19:36:06 <cybette> so I guess this doesn't apply to community events / meetups etc.
19:36:31 <jillr> no, afaik meetups should still use the "regular" ansible contact
19:36:33 <cybette> (even though URL has community events in it)
19:36:40 <misc> well, isn't ansible contributor summit just before ansiblefest ?
19:37:00 <jillr> or after, but yeah
19:38:28 <jillr> so, once we have a safety team identified we'll need to get them fully up to speed on all of the things that are involved with ansible's CoCs
19:38:33 <jillr> and contact methods, etc
19:40:41 <jillr> #topic open floor
19:42:30 <thedoubl3j> o/ _reading chat back log_
19:42:40 <jillr> #chair thedoubl3j
19:42:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro thedoubl3j
19:42:56 <jillr> I'll give it a couple minutes for you to catch up before we close out
19:47:03 <thedoubl3j> mostly caught up, everything I would have added someone else mentioned already, I am looking over the survey now that was linked
19:48:25 <jillr> I have a bunch of work to do on it still :)
19:48:39 <jillr> feel free to add comments in there
19:48:45 <jillr> I'll wrap up up then
19:48:50 <jillr> #endmeeting