19:01:28 #startmeeting Ansible D&I WG Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/577 19:01:28 Meeting started Thu Mar 4 19:01:28 2021 UTC. 19:01:28 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 19:01:28 The chair is jillr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:28 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:01:28 The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_d&i_wg_agenda:_https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/577' 19:01:50 #info https://www.ansible.com/community/events/ansible-meetups has been updated to include a link to the CoC 19:02:09 #chair tadeboro samccann misc 19:02:09 Current chairs: jillr misc samccann tadeboro 19:02:20 #chair gundalow 19:02:20 Current chairs: gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro 19:02:27 o/ 19:02:35 #chair felixfontein 19:02:35 Current chairs: felixfontein gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro 19:03:24 #topic Recipient list for codeofconduct@ emails 19:04:09 right now they're only going to robyn 19:04:30 cybette: did you want to propose a different recipient list, or something else on this topic? 19:05:26 only robyn seems suboptimal, between her having days off from time to time, and/or spending time in a metal tube :/ 19:05:45 (granted, the 2nd is happening less often at the moment) 19:05:57 it briefly came up internally before it was added to the agenda, I think the idea was to have it go to a short list 19:06:11 +1 for a short list 19:06:45 iirc it had previously just gone to gregdek so robyn basically just inherited it 19:07:17 ideally whoever is on that list should have some sort of training in CoC response handling 19:07:47 I don't actually know if Red Hat offers anything like that to employees, seems like something we might have though 19:08:03 no, but I know Fedora was looking at it 19:08:23 mnordin aka riecatnor can tell more, but she is on PTO at the moment 19:08:29 also +1 for short list 19:08:29 yeah, I wouldn't feel comfy being on that list for example, cuz I wouldn't know how to react etc 19:08:56 Is there some kind of Ansible Council of Elders or something? Maybe they handle it? 19:09:02 * samccann hopes she didn't dream up that title 19:09:29 I've had de-escalation training and other type of incident response training for others things so I'd feel ok, but I'd like to also do a CoC specific training if one was available 19:09:52 samccann: there was that, there will also be a steering commitee in the extremely near future 19:09:59 samccann: there used to be, but it hasn't been active for some time, and it's now replaced by ^ 19:10:03 (too slow :) ) 19:11:27 we could propose that the steering commitee handle it, and let that group vote on it, but these are 2 different roles that not everyone who is on the commitee might be comfortable with 19:11:36 now or in the fiuture 19:11:42 *future 19:11:52 do we have a idea of the amount of requests we have seen so far ? 19:11:55 I agree 19:12:17 I think having a separate safety team that's opt-in would be better 19:12:24 +1 for separate 19:12:26 misc: I don't think we do 19:13:16 cause Fedora incident have been trough the roof last year: 19:13:20 https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-code-of-conduct-report-2020/ 19:14:07 (we are still unsure why, but some hypothesis are: maturity of reporting system, people being anxious due to pandemics, and people speaking more easily to marie cause she was part of the community since a long time) 19:14:28 ah, I was just going to ask about any cause analysis 19:15:52 so in the short term, it sounds like we should find a few volunteers to form a safety team? 19:16:18 then figure out, naybe with fedora's help, if there are any trainings we can provide to those people 19:17:03 assuming robyn/the community team agree with our ideas :) 19:17:12 sounds like a plan 19:17:38 #action jill to connect with robyn about having a safety team for CoC response 19:20:50 #topic open floor 19:20:53 yeah, Fedora is looking at sage sharp workshop 19:21:02 (from otter tech) 19:21:03 ooh yay I would sign up for that 19:21:34 if fedora is further along this D&I path, are there steps/lessons we can learn and implement here? 19:21:47 i guess so 19:21:59 not sure if we published anything community central already on that topic 19:22:40 we didn't 19:24:37 but I guess it doesn't hurt to get either matthew or marie in the meeting next time, I can take care of that 19:24:51 that would be awesome, thanks 19:25:11 #action misc to connect us with Fedora's D&I / CoC folks 19:25:18 cool! 19:25:42 I didn't put it on the agenda but since we're on open floor, 19:25:53 #topic Meetup organizer CoC survey update 19:26:44 cybette and I met with gwmngilfen tearlier today and went over the notes for the survey, https://hackmd.io/YiBvALjKSFqtVTXzoY-I7A 19:27:13 * gregdek hullos from the great beyond :) -- I think that the coc email actually went to multiple people on my team, but yes, robyn can double check 19:27:20 I have an action to update the question list based on the conversation we had and come up with a surveymonkey-compatible markdown version of the survey 19:27:33 gregdek: ah, it definitely does not any longer - and hi!! 19:28:23 once we have the survey built we'll get it in front of a sample of trusted folks in different countries to make sure it reads the way we expect for people who speak english as a second (or third, etc) language 19:28:37 then make any updates as needed before sending it to actual meetup organizers 19:28:47 I love nitpicking other people texts :p 19:28:55 (well not love, I feel bad, but I am good at it) 19:29:07 gregdek: can you comment on < misc> do we have a idea of the amount of requests we have seen so far ? 19:29:09 misc: you were one of the people we said we should ask to review :) 19:29:25 and felix 19:29:58 I can help reading it 19:30:12 I saw I think 3 in 5 years. I would like to say that's because we are all excellent to each other, and maybe that's true, but it's also possible that it's not visible enough. 19:30:55 gregdek: I wonder how many were not reported to the email address though, 19:31:20 I've seen at least 3 things handled directly by ansible staff in the last 2 years, that I don't know if they got a follow-up email 19:31:41 I've asked my team to always follow up with an email if they intervene in something, but that may not be commonplace? 19:31:41 yeah, I also seen one directly handled by ansible staff 19:31:49 (long time ago) 19:32:35 Fair questions. I do think that if you go looking for a way to report a violation, it's pretty easy to find -- google "ansible code of conduct" takes you straight to a definitive action. 19:32:45 gundalow: ^relevant to the question I pinged you in the Ansible new-hire doc the other day, we might want an internal convo about CoC handling 19:32:56 #topic historical handling of CoC violations 19:33:41 I appreciate that we're all empowered to step in, but we should make sure we're being consistent and keeping track of things 19:34:15 having some (even public?) guidelines how CoC violation reports should be handled would be great 19:34:29 I just found this CoC for ansiblefest https://www.ansible.com/community/events/code-of-conduct 19:34:35 it has different emails for reporting 19:34:56 I think that go to marketing 19:34:58 yeah RH has staff that go to larger events for thigns like this 19:35:18 for emergency @ redhat.com 19:36:06 so I guess this doesn't apply to community events / meetups etc. 19:36:31 no, afaik meetups should still use the "regular" ansible contact 19:36:33 (even though URL has community events in it) 19:36:40 well, isn't ansible contributor summit just before ansiblefest ? 19:37:00 or after, but yeah 19:38:28 so, once we have a safety team identified we'll need to get them fully up to speed on all of the things that are involved with ansible's CoCs 19:38:33 and contact methods, etc 19:40:41 #topic open floor 19:42:30 o/ _reading chat back log_ 19:42:40 #chair thedoubl3j 19:42:40 Current chairs: felixfontein gundalow jillr misc samccann tadeboro thedoubl3j 19:42:56 I'll give it a couple minutes for you to catch up before we close out 19:47:03 mostly caught up, everything I would have added someone else mentioned already, I am looking over the survey now that was linked 19:48:25 I have a bunch of work to do on it still :) 19:48:39 feel free to add comments in there 19:48:45 I'll wrap up up then 19:48:50 #endmeeting