17:00:03 <gundalow> #startmeeting Testing Working Group
17:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 25 17:00:03 2016 UTC.  The chair is gundalow. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'testing_working_group'
17:00:12 <gundalow> #chair gundalow mattclay
17:00:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: gundalow mattclay
17:00:19 <ryansb> hi folks
17:00:32 <gundalow> #topic Roll call
17:00:33 <gundalow> Who is here?
17:00:33 <gundalow> Who is new this week?
17:00:40 <gundalow> hey ryansb
17:00:41 <ryansb> ryansb is here
17:00:46 <gundalow> :)
17:00:53 <Reaper> Hi
17:01:00 <gundalow> hey Reaper
17:01:02 <shertel> Hi gundalow
17:01:03 <Reaper> I'm new to this forum
17:01:06 * mattclay waves
17:01:16 <gundalow> Reaper: Care to introduce yourself?
17:01:57 <Reaper> I'm a network test engineer.
17:02:07 <Reaper> New to the open source community
17:02:11 <gundalow> e.g. How/where you use and what your interest in testing is
17:02:57 <Reaper> We use python as an automation tool to evaluate the modules
17:03:40 <Reaper> Interested to do more python coding and participate in the open source community
17:03:53 <Reaper> Used ansible to write simple playbooks
17:04:10 <Reaper> just to execute very basic testcases
17:04:16 <Reaper> interested to explore more
17:04:52 <gundalow> who else is new/lurking
17:04:59 <gundalow> linuxdynasty: you around?
17:05:02 <sivel> I am lurking
17:05:15 <gundalow> skg_net: sivel hey :)
17:05:48 <gundalow> #topic Update on internal work
17:05:49 <bruno_cgl> first time to open community,from networking testing background
17:06:01 <gundalow> bruno_cgl: Welcome
17:06:31 <skg_net> gundalow Hi
17:06:51 <gundalow> So quick update on what I've been working on
17:08:37 <gundalow> I'm working on playbooks to build up test VMs for the different network appliances (ansible.com/network). Ansible 2.2 will have a large network module refactor in, so this will help test that
17:09:03 <gundalow> We will also be adding in pep8(ish) checks for these modules once the feature work is done
17:09:41 <linuxdynasty> yeah
17:09:47 <linuxdynasty> im around
17:10:17 <gundalow> mattclay: would you like to give an update
17:11:20 <mattclay> This week I've enabled integration tests for OS X and Python 3 on Shippable.
17:11:52 <mattclay> abadger1999 has been making great progress with Python 3 compatibility, and the tests on Shippable will help prevent regressions.
17:12:32 <gundalow> \o/
17:12:41 <mattclay> Not so recent additions included enabling integration tests on Shippable for FreeBSD and Windows.
17:14:27 <mattclay> There are still some integration tests for Python 3, FreeBSD and OS X that are disabled, as they're not currently passing.
17:14:43 <mattclay> We'll be working on fixing those over the next few weeks.
17:14:58 <mattclay> Any contributions to help in that area are definitely appreciated.
17:15:02 <gundalow> Which I guess brings us nicely onto asking for help
17:15:41 * gundalow finds the links
17:15:55 <gundalow> For Python3
17:16:00 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/test/utils/shippable/python3-test-tag-blacklist.txt
17:16:03 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/test/utils/shippable/python3-test-target-blacklist.txt
17:16:45 <gundalow> and for freebsd. & osx
17:16:50 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/test/utils/shippable/remote-integration.sh#L17
17:16:57 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/test/utils/shippable/remote-integration.sh#L145
17:17:31 <gundalow> We'd *Really* welcome help on getting those lists reduced
17:17:50 <gundalow> I'm sure there are some modules you use regularly in there and care about
17:18:04 <gundalow> :)
17:18:20 * gundalow looks round at the tumbleweed
17:19:52 <sivel> we need a topic?
17:20:05 <gundalow> sivel: ?
17:20:20 <sivel> I have something to talk about, just making sure we are ready to move on
17:20:30 <gundalow> sure
17:20:35 <sivel> ansible-testing
17:20:57 <sivel> I received the go ahead from our IP legal team, that I can move that repo
17:21:04 <gundalow> #topic ansible-testing
17:21:19 <sivel> so assuming that we are still interested, I just need to work with someone to move it to the ansible org
17:21:20 <gundalow> #info < sivel> I received the go ahead from our IP legal team, that I can move that repo
17:21:56 <sivel> which would require someone with admin access to the ansible org
17:22:33 <gundalow> So would this move to github.com/ansible/ansible-testing /
17:22:50 <sivel> yes, assuming that everyone is still ok with that
17:23:15 <abadger1999> +1
17:23:17 <gundalow> sure, or /ansible-validate-modules
17:23:20 <sivel> it had been discussed a while ago, but I hadn't gotten the legal go ahead until just before my vacation, so I didn't try to do anything about it then
17:23:38 <sivel> I had invisioned this going farther than just modules, which is why it had a more generic name
17:23:39 <gundalow> Sure, thanks for progressing with it. We all know legal stuff can take a while
17:23:52 <gundalow> an, OK
17:23:59 <sivel> I figured we could write other tests for other parts of ansible, and so on
17:24:32 <sivel> so, assuming you guys tell me who to work with, we can work on migrating it to the ansible org
17:24:43 <gundalow> sure, leave that with me
17:25:36 <gundalow> #action gundalow to work out 1) Do we still want to move sivel/ansible-testing/ (we should) 2) Are we happy with the name 3) Who has github rights 4) Update links
17:25:53 <sivel> and if needed, I can provide my super awesome confirmation that I am allowed to do this, which is like a 1 line email :)
17:26:02 <sivel> but I doubt it is needed
17:26:28 <sivel> "The Rackspace Intellectual Property Committee has approved this request under the terms you identified below"
17:26:30 <sivel> ;)
17:26:35 <sivel> haha
17:26:40 <gundalow> haha
17:26:54 <gundalow> excellent
17:27:22 <jhawkesworth> would be cool to have this 'inside' ansible
17:27:22 <gundalow> #topic AnsibleFest & Contributors Summit
17:27:30 <jhawkesworth> (hello btw)
17:27:40 <skg_net> can you point me to a PR which already migrated some test for Python 3
17:27:43 <gundalow> hey jhawkesworth. I think we wil
17:27:57 <gundalow> mattclay: You got a link for skg_net
17:28:32 * mattclay finds a PR
17:28:47 <gundalow> So we will be having our 3rd Contributors Summit - https://www.ansible.com/blog/ansible-contributor-summit-brooklyn-2016
17:28:58 <gundalow> There are agenda and details on the above blog post
17:29:11 <gundalow> This is a great way to help shape ansible
17:29:25 <gundalow> You can attend in person, or online
17:29:43 <mattclay> https://github.com/ansible/ansible-modules-core/pull/4526
17:29:44 <gundalow> If you attend in person you get a massive 50% off your AnsibleFest ticket
17:30:08 <mattclay> That's a PR for actual module fixes for Python 3.
17:30:13 <gundalow> skg_net: example of py3 fixes https://github.com/ansible/ansible-modules-core/pull/4526
17:30:30 <skg_net> Thanks @mattclay @gundalow
17:30:40 <sivel> I cannot attend in person, but I will likely be able to contribute "online"
17:31:05 <gundalow> skg_net: It would be worth you pinging mattclay and abadger1999 before you work on something incase they are actively working on the same module
17:31:06 <mattclay> skg_net: Here's an example of a PR to enable tests once the modules have been fixed: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/17212
17:31:09 <gundalow> skg_net: great
17:31:35 <jhawkesworth> yeah most likely I'll be on line too
17:31:44 <skg_net> sure will work with them
17:31:55 <sivel> my wife happens to be out of town during ansiblefest, so no travelling for me
17:32:22 <jhawkesworth> no travel budget for me!
17:32:39 <gundalow> jhawkesworth: Where areyou based?
17:32:45 <skg_net> +1 @jhawkesworth
17:32:47 <abadger1999> skg_net: Most changes will be to code.  Run the test manually, see what breaks, fix the module code, then submit the PR for the fixed code.
17:33:06 <jhawkesworth> worcestershire, UK
17:33:09 <abadger1999> sv--: and say that we can enable the test once the code is merged.
17:33:16 <abadger1999> skg_net: ^
17:33:28 <gundalow> jhawkesworth: See you in London next year then :)
17:34:11 <gundalow> skg_net: Any modules that jump out at you from that list?
17:34:14 <jhawkesworth> that's my plan.  Hope I can do a windows workshop or something like if theres enough interest.
17:34:23 <skg_net> ok got it
17:34:38 <gundalow> great
17:35:33 <skg_net> gundalow: will get back to you and others tomorrow
17:35:46 <gundalow> skg_net: Thank you :)
17:36:00 <caphrim007> did i miss the majority of the testing group meeting?
17:36:07 <gundalow> caphrim007: hop, still ongoing
17:36:11 <caphrim007> k
17:36:18 <gundalow> caphrim007: You can see the IRC logs at the end
17:36:22 <caphrim007> k
17:36:25 <gundalow> #topic Improving Documentation
17:36:42 <gundalow> From the voting (and general feedback) https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/ansible-testing-working-group
17:36:54 <gundalow> One of the really good suggestions was
17:37:17 <gundalow> having a decent example of a well written module
17:37:47 <gundalow> So, What are examples, and what are the characterists of a good module
17:38:14 <gundalow> Anyone got any examples of a well written module (it can be your own :P)
17:38:18 <jhawkesworth> did anyone suggest raiding jimic's AF london presentation for the module he wrote to control Hue lights?
17:38:58 <jhawkesworth> his talk was on writing modules so ought to be model
17:39:01 <gundalow> jhawkesworth: nop, I'll make a note
17:39:15 <jhawkesworth> but perhaps a bit 'niche' in purpose
17:39:33 <jhawkesworth> also hard to try out without (expensive in UK) hardware
17:39:33 <gundalow> couple of examples wouldn't hurt
17:39:56 <caphrim007> can we codify all of the module checklist in sivil's ansible checker?
17:40:03 <caphrim007> or some tool
17:40:10 <gundalow> caphrim007: YES
17:40:14 <gundalow> well, more of it
17:40:27 <jhawkesworth> gotta drop - next time!
17:40:57 <caphrim007> can a second ask be that not all the checks be inline in the code, but pluggable so that devs in other orgs can add tests without having to change existing code?
17:40:59 <gundalow> on https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/ansible-testing-working-group (from last weeks meeting) I've said we should split out the checklist and move out the stuff that's checked by ansible-validate-module
17:41:33 <abadger1999> should be unittestable -- separate the code that has sideeffects (like anything using module.*) from the code that is purely algorithmic.
17:41:34 <caphrim007> for lack of a better example, consider https://github.com/willthames/ansible-lint/tree/master/lib/ansiblelint/rules
17:41:52 <caphrim007> i can add more rules if i have something specific i want to check in house
17:41:54 <gundalow> I was about to suggest that
17:42:26 <abadger1999> be aware of common parameter names.
17:42:42 <abadger1999> Make proper use of parameter types (path, json, bool)
17:43:12 <abadger1999> Do more than just wrap a command line tool.
17:43:40 <gundalow> abadger1999: If we can check more with CI it's fewer things that humans need to check/miss :)
17:44:20 <abadger1999> Work on python3 and (until March/April of next year) on python2.4
17:45:59 <gundalow> linuxdynasty: How would you feel about us using one of your modules as an example
17:46:43 <gundalow> linuxdynasty: and do you have thick enough skin to deal with us ripping it to shreads to make it bullet proof/solid documentation :P
17:46:53 <linuxdynasty> np
17:46:59 <linuxdynasty> yes i do
17:47:04 <gundalow> excellent
17:47:06 <linuxdynasty> i bite back :P hehe jk
17:47:15 <gundalow> haha
17:47:54 <gundalow> #action linuxdynasty to pick a module to use as an example of a perfect module. Group then to review and ensure that it is
17:48:06 <abadger1999> Smaller is better :-)
17:48:22 <abadger1999> as no matter the module, we're going to find tons of stuff to change.
17:48:29 <linuxdynasty> I document like a mad man in my functions/methods :(
17:48:43 <linuxdynasty> so I will look for a smallish one :p
17:48:44 <gundalow> linuxdynasty: pick one and ping me
17:48:48 <linuxdynasty> kk
17:48:57 <gundalow> doesn't have to be today
17:49:12 <abadger1999> linuxdynasty: no problem -- documentation doesn't count in what I was thinking of.
17:49:16 <abadger1999> Mostly about the code.
17:49:23 <linuxdynasty> kk
17:49:34 <abadger1999> (although fewer parameters is also god ;-)
17:49:43 <linuxdynasty> I think function/method documentation should also be  part of the examples
17:49:49 <abadger1999> <nod>
17:49:56 <linuxdynasty> to motivate module developers to do the same
17:49:57 <gundalow> +1
17:50:00 <abadger1999> Do you sphinx markup?
17:50:01 <gundalow> +1000
17:50:11 <abadger1999> That's what everything in core and module_utils will eventually use.
17:50:20 <gundalow> 10 minutes left
17:50:30 <linuxdynasty> I use this for the past 6 years
17:50:30 <linuxdynasty> http://sphinxcontrib-napoleon.readthedocs.io/en/latest/example_google.html
17:50:34 <abadger1999> Excellent.
17:50:42 <linuxdynasty> all of python docs looks like the above
17:51:38 <abadger1999> The section style is an extension to  sphinx?
17:51:39 <gundalow> Cool. So if we can pick a module, and and get most way through a re-review by next week I'd be really happy with that
17:51:55 <linuxdynasty> cool, I will get you something in the next couple of hours
17:53:11 <gundalow> excellent
17:53:15 <abadger1999> ah, I suppose that's what the package that documentation is for is.
17:53:28 <gundalow> linuxdynasty: did you have some mock code you would like reviewing?
17:53:48 <linuxdynasty> nope got to modify it as per jimi's suggestion
17:53:53 <gundalow> cool
17:53:53 <linuxdynasty> I will ping once it is ready
17:53:55 <linuxdynasty> ty for checking though
17:53:57 <gundalow> nod
17:54:04 <gundalow> #topic openfloor
17:54:13 <gundalow> mattclay: abadger1999 anything else?
17:54:20 <gundalow> or anyone else?
17:54:24 <mattclay> Nothing from me.
17:55:11 <abadger1999> linuxdynasty: You'll want to talk to people (Not sure if it's a core team decision or doc team decision or just consensus) about whether to use that extension or stick with standard sphinx markup.
17:55:12 <gundalow> cool. I think we can use the example module as a way forward with improving docs.ansible.com/ansible/developing_modules.html
17:55:39 <linuxdynasty> kk
17:56:19 <abadger1999> docschick and dharmabumstead are docs team.  You know who all the core team members are :-)
17:56:37 <linuxdynasty> yep yep
17:56:42 <abadger1999> Cool.
17:56:56 <abadger1999> Nothing else from me.
17:57:13 <gundalow> cool
17:57:42 <gundalow> caphrim007: shertel bruno_cgl Reaper anything else?
17:57:52 <shertel> Nothing from me
17:58:09 <gundalow> cool
17:58:14 <gundalow> Thank you all for your time
17:58:15 <caphrim007> nope
17:58:30 <gundalow> If you think of anything else feel free to add it to https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/114
17:58:34 <gundalow> #endmeeting