15:10:58 <bcoca> #startmeeting ansbile core irc public meeting
15:10:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 15:10:58 2019 UTC.
15:10:58 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:10:58 <zodbot> The chair is bcoca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:10:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:10:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansbile_core_irc_public_meeting'
15:11:05 <sdoran> woot
15:12:05 <bcoca> #topic https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/54131
15:12:14 <bcoca> +1 to document or napalm ini format ...
15:13:21 <sivel> hey, sorry
15:13:34 <sdoran> +1 to document
15:13:43 <sivel> yeah, just +1 to document
15:13:52 <bcoca> +2 to have sivel document it
15:13:56 <bcoca> ;-p
15:13:58 <sivel> +3 for bcoca
15:14:00 <sivel> ;)
15:14:14 <sdoran> Is this the IRC equivalent of hands-on-the-bat game?
15:14:21 <sivel> I'll just add the decision to the issue for the time being
15:14:35 <bcoca> open docs issue
15:14:50 <bcoca> or remake as docs issue .. docs team might have time to do it instead of waiting for us
15:14:51 <sivel> I can convert the existing issue
15:14:54 <sivel> yeah :)
15:15:09 <sivel> Ok, that was only 3, but I think that is sufficient for this
15:15:57 <bcoca> yep, i would not even have put this to vote, 'just do it'
15:16:37 <sdoran> I'd be fine with a toggle. But it's definitely `waiting_on_contributor'
15:17:19 <bcoca> not that sure, would have to expand gather_ keywords at play also
15:17:44 <bcoca> ah, module_defaults would work, so ok, as long as no new gather+play keywords
15:17:55 * gundalow waves
15:17:56 <bcoca> #topic open floor
15:18:34 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/proposals/issues/160 same sub-group name in group of groups
15:18:59 <gundalow> New proposal that could do with an initial "This makes sense"/ "Try X instead"
15:19:51 <bcoca> iirc responded to that same 'feature idea' in ansible/ansbile
15:20:16 <maxamillion> .hello2
15:20:17 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
15:20:21 <bcoca> its 'ansible is not puppet'
15:20:35 <bcoca> we look at hosts as first class citizens, not class/group
15:20:38 <sivel> And making such a change would cause backwards compat issues
15:20:44 <bcoca> both focuses are valid, jsut different
15:20:53 <sivel> and not to mention, that it is just an implementation detail of the YAML inventory format that confuses people
15:20:59 <bcoca> and a fundamental change to ansible that makes it incompatible with existing setups
15:21:04 <sivel> I am -100
15:21:47 <bcoca> sivel: we had this request before YAML, every user that came from 'group centric' systems to our 'host/task' centric goes through same thing, have many tickets with ini file or json script output as examples
15:22:29 <sivel> yeah, I think it just those using YAML misunderstand.  No other inventory formats support that same sub group format
15:22:32 <bcoca> 'constructed' gives them a way to do this by dyamic groups/variables that can be based on existing intersections
15:22:37 <bcoca> so does group_by
15:23:03 <bcoca> sivel:  well, they do, it jsut doesnt LOOK as hier as yaml file
15:23:10 <bcoca> plenty of ini examples
15:23:43 <sdoran> Isn't the way to handle this by using a host pattern? `europe:&webservers`
15:24:03 <bcoca> at one point we removed YAML format to avoid this issue, but it kept being reported with ini, so i decided to add back yaml since confusion was there anyways
15:24:08 <bcoca> sdoran: yes
15:24:22 <bcoca> sdoran: excpet vars are not 'intersection aware'
15:24:36 <bcoca> and they expect hosts to 'only have vars depending on how I access them'
15:24:46 <sdoran> I don't like the idea of group hierarchy. Seems overly complicated.
15:24:49 <bcoca> so vars defined in dc2 group applygin to host that is still there
15:24:54 <sdoran> But I am biased as a long-time Ansible user.
15:24:59 <bcoca> it is, but people are used to it
15:25:06 <bcoca> they like 'familiar'
15:25:09 <sivel> In any case, I don't think we ahve enough concensus necessarily to decide on a proposal
15:25:17 <sivel> our quorum is too small today
15:25:20 <maxamillion> I'm -1 to it for what it's worth
15:25:22 <bcoca> part of ansibe's simplicity is that 'host is always the same' no matter how you access it
15:25:30 <bcoca> -1 also
15:26:02 <sdoran> -1 on this
15:26:05 <sivel> so we do have -4/nil
15:26:16 <sivel> or maybe NaN
15:26:22 <bcoca> -4/0
15:26:34 <maxamillion> if someone want's to use Hiera or Jerakia with a lookup plugin, then more power to them but this seems like a fundamental change to how Ansible handles inventory and I think it's an anti pattern
15:26:37 <bcoca> we are not romans, we have the concept of 'nothing'
15:26:45 <maxamillion> lol
15:27:09 * bcoca side swipe to 2k year old math concepts ...
15:27:21 <shertel> -1
15:27:39 <bcoca> -5/0 ... giving it another 3 mins, then closing and rejecting
15:28:48 <sivel> Ok, well 5 is my quorum requirement
15:28:56 <sivel> so we are good then :)
15:29:43 <bcoca> NEEEEXT!
15:29:49 <bcoca> #topic open floor
15:30:37 <gundalow> Who would like to put some words on #160 and close it?
15:31:21 <bcoca> phrasing
15:31:41 <bcoca> 'who would like' vs 'who's lap can i drop this in'
15:32:15 <bcoca> if no one else, i'll add to my queue, ive already close 20+ versions of this same request
15:32:28 <gundalow> thanks
15:32:40 <maxamillion> I'll take it
15:32:46 <bcoca> k, if no new busyness, i'll end meeting in 5
15:32:50 <maxamillion> gundalow: I'll write something up and have you review
15:33:13 <gundalow> maxamillion++
15:33:13 <zodbot> gundalow: Karma for maxamillion changed to 6 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:33:14 <gundalow> Thanks :)
15:33:16 <bcoca> maxamillion: can probably just copy paste/ref some of the tickets i already closed with same
15:34:14 <maxamillion> bcoca: you know which ones those are?
15:34:29 <maxamillion> woo! zodbot karma
15:34:32 <bcoca> no, dont keep those ticket numbers in cache
15:34:45 <maxamillion> bcoca: no worries, will poke around
15:35:53 <bcoca> check sivel's ticket page, i think he has 'bcoca being jackass' category
15:36:23 <sivel> lol
15:36:25 <bcoca> https://ansible.sivel.net/pr/ <= just pretty sure its hidden from my ip
15:37:12 <sivel> I remember some discription I really liked, about a person not being different because of the color of coat
15:37:20 <bcoca> #endmeeting