16:00:48 <akasurde> #startmeeting Ansible VMware Working Group Meeting
16:00:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 20 16:00:48 2017 UTC.  The chair is akasurde. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_vmware_working_group_meeting'
16:01:04 <akasurde> Hello Everyone,
16:01:56 <pdellaert> hi!
16:02:11 <akasurde> #chair pdellaert
16:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: akasurde pdellaert
16:02:14 <akasurde> pdellaert, Hi
16:02:20 <pdellaert> my internet connection is really really crappy, so i might drop off :s
16:02:26 <akasurde> np
16:02:30 <pdellaert> thanks for the merge, akasurde
16:02:54 <akasurde> pdellaert, Thanks for your active contribution
16:02:55 <akasurde> :)
16:03:36 <pdellaert> :)
16:03:49 <pdellaert> anyway, what do we want to discuss today?
16:04:19 <akasurde> pdellaert, I wanted to discuss about "Making name parameter in vmware_guest optional"
16:04:25 <akasurde> #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/32960
16:06:01 <akasurde> Problem is that when folder is not specified, default value '/vm' is set
16:06:43 <akasurde> module tries to find VM in default location which is not available and end up creating new VM each time
16:06:53 <akasurde> rather than idempotent behavior
16:06:57 <pdellaert> ok
16:07:23 <pdellaert> do i need to configure a folder starting with /vm with this?
16:07:23 <akasurde> I wanted to discuss bad effects of removing default parameter '/vm' from folder
16:07:54 <pdellaert> (so do i have to give the root path of the folder?)
16:07:57 <akasurde> yes, once default is removed, User need to specify the folder explicitly otherwise it will fail
16:09:17 <pdellaert> what are the bad effects?
16:11:14 <akasurde> People may have to explicitly specify vm folder
16:12:23 <pdellaert> well, that's release notes/documentation
16:12:33 <pdellaert> i don't really have an issue with that
16:13:43 <akasurde> From end user point prespective what do you think ?
16:15:19 <pdellaert> the problem i see is that users who have no clue about VM folders and the different folder types in vSphere will get really confused...
16:16:31 <pdellaert> Is /vm always the root of the VM folder in a DC?
16:20:46 <pdellaert> because in that case, why don't we always prepend it? not just use it as default, but just always add it?
16:20:46 <akasurde> yes, but with latest changes in find vm API, it is DC + /vm
16:20:46 <akasurde> adding by-default also creates mess
16:20:46 <akasurde> people have nested folders, nested datacenter with folders
16:20:46 <akasurde> and what not
16:23:08 <akasurde> I think I will keep this PR open for a while and let other people commit
16:23:09 <pdellaert> i think our find VM method needs to be better, to be fair, not sure how...
16:23:12 <akasurde> *comment
16:23:45 <akasurde> yes, I mailed VMware guys but they are working on it and no reply since then
16:24:24 <pdellaert> yeah, we need to think about this... At some point we also want to have stuff stable, because changing the whole behaviour every release will also not get us favors with users/community
16:26:27 <akasurde> Totally agree with you
16:26:54 <akasurde> Let us not break stability and keep PR open for more comments and discussion before making this change
16:27:05 <pdellaert> ++
16:28:17 <akasurde> I don't have anything else
16:28:38 <akasurde> If you have any topic to discuss then we can discuss that or close the meeting
16:30:49 <dag> o/
16:31:06 <akasurde> #chair dag
16:31:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: akasurde dag pdellaert
16:31:13 <akasurde> dag welcome
16:31:14 <akasurde> :)
16:31:21 <dag> I made it finally :-)
16:31:29 <dag> but I have no topics to discuss...
16:32:07 <pdellaert> :p
16:32:13 <pdellaert> that's useful ;)
16:32:36 <dag> pdellaert: what you propose is how it was, but it had its limits
16:32:39 <pdellaert> but you can help us think about the complexity of vmware_guest and its limitations
16:32:39 <akasurde> dag we were discussing about removing /vm as default parameter from vmware_guest argument spec
16:33:17 <dag> so we used to add /vm, if the folder was relative, or when it wasn't found
16:33:35 <dag> IIRC
16:34:13 <dag> akasurde: removing it because people make the mistake not to add the folder and using the wrong (/vm) one ?
16:34:17 <dag> I am all for that
16:34:24 <dag> but it may break working playbooks
16:34:46 <dag> so we should probably deprecate the current behavior for 3 releases...
16:35:21 <akasurde> yes, I am thinking the same
16:35:45 <akasurde> changing behaviors instantaneously increase chaos
16:36:26 <dag> it will be a slow process (2 years?) but that's ok if we are certain about the end goal
16:37:01 <dag> and we have the necessary tools for doing things like this in Ansible, it's a proven method
16:38:40 <pdellaert> yeah, but we need a clear transition plan
16:38:46 <pdellaert> and a clear goald :)
16:39:36 <akasurde> agree
16:41:22 <pdellaert> there's one thing: (i've just been working on some playbooks), sometimes i know how a VM is named, but i don't know in what folder it is... i still want to be able ot find it (for instance with vmware_fuest_facts)
16:41:30 <pdellaert> vmware_guest_facts
16:41:44 <pdellaert> we need to have that covered as well, i think
16:49:15 <pdellaert> (I'm actually running into that issue, where i have to specify the folder to find the VM, while i don't know the folder... using 2.4..1)
16:51:19 <akasurde> pdellaert, have you tried vmware_guest_find
16:51:35 <akasurde> it will find folder name for you if you just know VM name
16:51:36 <pdellaert> ah!
16:52:05 <akasurde> you can chain vmware_guest_find and vmware_guest together
16:52:15 <pdellaert> yeah, thanks :)
16:52:35 <akasurde> these two modules can make vmware_guest idempotent (atleast I think)
16:52:40 <akasurde> np
16:57:45 <akasurde> pdellaert, dag thanks for discussion
16:57:58 <akasurde> I am closing this meeting as we are over time
16:58:04 <akasurde> #endmeeting