16:00:48 <akasurde> #startmeeting Ansible VMware Working Group Meeting 16:00:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 20 16:00:48 2017 UTC. The chair is akasurde. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_vmware_working_group_meeting' 16:01:04 <akasurde> Hello Everyone, 16:01:56 <pdellaert> hi! 16:02:11 <akasurde> #chair pdellaert 16:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: akasurde pdellaert 16:02:14 <akasurde> pdellaert, Hi 16:02:20 <pdellaert> my internet connection is really really crappy, so i might drop off :s 16:02:26 <akasurde> np 16:02:30 <pdellaert> thanks for the merge, akasurde 16:02:54 <akasurde> pdellaert, Thanks for your active contribution 16:02:55 <akasurde> :) 16:03:36 <pdellaert> :) 16:03:49 <pdellaert> anyway, what do we want to discuss today? 16:04:19 <akasurde> pdellaert, I wanted to discuss about "Making name parameter in vmware_guest optional" 16:04:25 <akasurde> #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/32960 16:06:01 <akasurde> Problem is that when folder is not specified, default value '/vm' is set 16:06:43 <akasurde> module tries to find VM in default location which is not available and end up creating new VM each time 16:06:53 <akasurde> rather than idempotent behavior 16:06:57 <pdellaert> ok 16:07:23 <pdellaert> do i need to configure a folder starting with /vm with this? 16:07:23 <akasurde> I wanted to discuss bad effects of removing default parameter '/vm' from folder 16:07:54 <pdellaert> (so do i have to give the root path of the folder?) 16:07:57 <akasurde> yes, once default is removed, User need to specify the folder explicitly otherwise it will fail 16:09:17 <pdellaert> what are the bad effects? 16:11:14 <akasurde> People may have to explicitly specify vm folder 16:12:23 <pdellaert> well, that's release notes/documentation 16:12:33 <pdellaert> i don't really have an issue with that 16:13:43 <akasurde> From end user point prespective what do you think ? 16:15:19 <pdellaert> the problem i see is that users who have no clue about VM folders and the different folder types in vSphere will get really confused... 16:16:31 <pdellaert> Is /vm always the root of the VM folder in a DC? 16:20:46 <pdellaert> because in that case, why don't we always prepend it? not just use it as default, but just always add it? 16:20:46 <akasurde> yes, but with latest changes in find vm API, it is DC + /vm 16:20:46 <akasurde> adding by-default also creates mess 16:20:46 <akasurde> people have nested folders, nested datacenter with folders 16:20:46 <akasurde> and what not 16:23:08 <akasurde> I think I will keep this PR open for a while and let other people commit 16:23:09 <pdellaert> i think our find VM method needs to be better, to be fair, not sure how... 16:23:12 <akasurde> *comment 16:23:45 <akasurde> yes, I mailed VMware guys but they are working on it and no reply since then 16:24:24 <pdellaert> yeah, we need to think about this... At some point we also want to have stuff stable, because changing the whole behaviour every release will also not get us favors with users/community 16:26:27 <akasurde> Totally agree with you 16:26:54 <akasurde> Let us not break stability and keep PR open for more comments and discussion before making this change 16:27:05 <pdellaert> ++ 16:28:17 <akasurde> I don't have anything else 16:28:38 <akasurde> If you have any topic to discuss then we can discuss that or close the meeting 16:30:49 <dag> o/ 16:31:06 <akasurde> #chair dag 16:31:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: akasurde dag pdellaert 16:31:13 <akasurde> dag welcome 16:31:14 <akasurde> :) 16:31:21 <dag> I made it finally :-) 16:31:29 <dag> but I have no topics to discuss... 16:32:07 <pdellaert> :p 16:32:13 <pdellaert> that's useful ;) 16:32:36 <dag> pdellaert: what you propose is how it was, but it had its limits 16:32:39 <pdellaert> but you can help us think about the complexity of vmware_guest and its limitations 16:32:39 <akasurde> dag we were discussing about removing /vm as default parameter from vmware_guest argument spec 16:33:17 <dag> so we used to add /vm, if the folder was relative, or when it wasn't found 16:33:35 <dag> IIRC 16:34:13 <dag> akasurde: removing it because people make the mistake not to add the folder and using the wrong (/vm) one ? 16:34:17 <dag> I am all for that 16:34:24 <dag> but it may break working playbooks 16:34:46 <dag> so we should probably deprecate the current behavior for 3 releases... 16:35:21 <akasurde> yes, I am thinking the same 16:35:45 <akasurde> changing behaviors instantaneously increase chaos 16:36:26 <dag> it will be a slow process (2 years?) but that's ok if we are certain about the end goal 16:37:01 <dag> and we have the necessary tools for doing things like this in Ansible, it's a proven method 16:38:40 <pdellaert> yeah, but we need a clear transition plan 16:38:46 <pdellaert> and a clear goald :) 16:39:36 <akasurde> agree 16:41:22 <pdellaert> there's one thing: (i've just been working on some playbooks), sometimes i know how a VM is named, but i don't know in what folder it is... i still want to be able ot find it (for instance with vmware_fuest_facts) 16:41:30 <pdellaert> vmware_guest_facts 16:41:44 <pdellaert> we need to have that covered as well, i think 16:49:15 <pdellaert> (I'm actually running into that issue, where i have to specify the folder to find the VM, while i don't know the folder... using 2.4..1) 16:51:19 <akasurde> pdellaert, have you tried vmware_guest_find 16:51:35 <akasurde> it will find folder name for you if you just know VM name 16:51:36 <pdellaert> ah! 16:52:05 <akasurde> you can chain vmware_guest_find and vmware_guest together 16:52:15 <pdellaert> yeah, thanks :) 16:52:35 <akasurde> these two modules can make vmware_guest idempotent (atleast I think) 16:52:40 <akasurde> np 16:57:45 <akasurde> pdellaert, dag thanks for discussion 16:57:58 <akasurde> I am closing this meeting as we are over time 16:58:04 <akasurde> #endmeeting