<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:03
!startmeeting F40-blocker-review
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:04
Meeting started at 2024-04-08 16:00:03 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:04
The Meeting name is 'F40-blocker-review'
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:06
!topic Roll Call
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:15
ahoyhoy folks, who's around for blocker review fun?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:00:46
!hi
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:00:46
Aloha
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:00:48
Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:00:55
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:00:57
František Zatloukal (frantisekz)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:13
hi hi
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:02:16
!hi
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:16
how's everyone doing
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:02:17
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:02:47
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:02:49
Marc Deop (marcdeop)
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:02:53
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:02:54
Geraldo S. Simião Kutz (geraldosimiao) - he / him / his
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:16
hi rocky!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:26
for this meeting, votes of 'woof' will be accepted
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:03:49
Rocky Linux?
<@1vx:matrix.org>
16:03:57
Hi, I wanna start contributing to cloud SIG but I am aimless with what blocker is and all so I will just try to read and make sense if thats fine
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:22
crypto: sure, welcome. there will be a big spam of boilerplate messages in a minute which includes a link to an explanation of what we're doing
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:33
so hey, let's do that now
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:38
!topic Introduction
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:44
Why are we here?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:47
!info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:51
!info We'll be following the process outlined at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:54
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:57
!info The bugs up for review today are available at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:01
!link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:04
!info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:06
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:09
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_40_Beta_Release_Criteria
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:12
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_40_Final_Release_Criteria
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:05:19
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:05:20
Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:23
!info for Fedora 40 Final, we have:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:31
!info 4 Proposed Blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:34
!info 1 Accepted Blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:36
!info 1 Accepted Previous Release Blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:38
!info 1 Proposed Freeze Exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:41
!info 7 Accepted Freeze Exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:46
alrighty, let's start with:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:50
!topic Proposed Final blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:53
hi aoife!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:58
!topic (2273497) snapshot crashes on launch or after taking a picture, console error "thread 'main' has overflowed its stack", backtrace is 4000+ frames and inc "Cannot access memory at address 0xffffffffffffffff" (Logitech C920 camera)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:00
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2273497
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:03
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1560
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:05
!info Proposed Blocker, gtk4, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:08
!info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+2,0,-0) (+frantisekz, +geraldosimiao)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:34
okay, so...at least two of us with this specific camera hit this specific crash. other folks have reported other issues. but some people say it works fine.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:38
so, seems a bit ropey.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:53
Michael Catanzaro: any thoughts?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:07:04
I don't have anything to test with at hand
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:07:14
It runs here, but doesn't show any images... but at least it doesn't crash. ;)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:07:31
nirik: what camera? does another app work?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:07:57
framework laptop... meeting apps/web works fine.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:08:18
but I am trying the rawhide one. I can boot a f40 live sometime later to see there.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:38
has anyone tried cheese?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:08:42
0bda:5634 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. Laptop Camera
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:09:09
Both apps run on my today's setup.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:24
i just tried cheese, it mostly works for me (i'm one of the ones snapshot crashes for)
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:09:32
However, I could test on the Lenovo laptop also tomorrow.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:09:51
cheese works ok here.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:19
we could do a last minute swap back to cheese i guess
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:33
on the basis snapshot seems generally ropey. then we're tied to it for another year, though
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:41
would be really good to have workstation wg input
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:11:08
Wouldn't it be another 6 month?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:16
Brandon Nielsen: lifecycle of 40.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:11:20
Ah, sure
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:11:21
why another year? there will be no Gnome update for 41?
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:11:45
Oh, this is what you mean.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:11:51
I just tried too, cheese works (though the webcam flickers on and off for a bit before it shows an image), snapshot crashes when launched from terminal (webcam flickers on and off and then snapshot crashes)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:52
lruzicka: well, unless we want to have snapshot obsolete cheese in a stable release at that point, but that seems a bit risky? maybe.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:00
Fabio Valentini: what cam?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:04
same crash as the bug?
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:12:10
logitech HD92
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:12:16
stack overflow
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:21
yeah, sounds like the same one...
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:12:24
logitech HD920
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:28
i guess it affects multiple logitechs?
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:12:40
(made a typo, missing zero)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:51
oh, same camera
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:57
i guess a lot of us bought that camera. :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:19
(it's the c920, there's no hd920)
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:13:37
right. sorry :D two typos then.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:13:57
and from what I know, the "No camera found" issue when launching from the overview is a race condition between desktop portal and the app window being created (camera permission is denied for processes without an active window IIUC)
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:14:14
and that's been an issue for me since GNOME 45
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:15:06
it doesn't seem to be affecting cheese
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:15:18
just tried two launches of snapshot from overview, got 'no camera found' twice, tried cheese twice, worked both times
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:15:33
Cheese uses v4l2 directly IIRC
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:15:36
ah
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:15:37
In that case, I feel it is more blockery than before.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:15:39
so it shouldn't have this problem
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:09
on the whole i'm kinda feeling like we should accept this based on Overall Bad Vibes
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:16:30
I've had this problem with the portal camera stuff for at least a year now on my GNOME laptop
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:35
and recommend revert to cheese
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:16:52
yeah snapshot has never been working good for me :( snapshot v45 only worked when launched from terminal but never from desktop launcher, and v46 is now not working for me at all :(
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:57
so i think i'm +woof^H^H^H^H^H +!
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:16:59
we just never really had anything that used that path by default so it wasn't important :/
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:01
so i think i'm +woof^H^H^H^H^H +1
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:17:27
Woof is +1 blocker? 🤣
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:17:40
I guess a weak +1.... but we should figure something quickly, not drag our feet. ;)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:17:41
Woof +1 FB
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:47
woof will be considered equal to 1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:49
+woof == +1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:52
-woof == -1
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:17:54
+1
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:17:55
What's the negative of 'woof' then? 😅
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:18:02
+woof
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:06
+woof then :)
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:18:07
Ahhh got it
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:18:08
foow
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:18
oof
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:18:22
haha
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:18:26
+woof
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:18:31
surely meow??
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:18:52
🤣
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:19:01
cats are evil, so yes I'll go with that
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:19:18
looks like the portal issue is known upstream, there's multiple tickets open about it, some as old as a year :(
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:19:58
yup
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:20:09
proposed !agreed 2273497 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted both because a crash on a widely-used camera model (we found three affected people easily) is bad enough to block on its own, and we found other issues in snapshot in testing (for nirik it doesn't crash but never shows anything, and many folks found it shows 'No Camera Found' when run from overview). we recommend that we revert to Cheese again for F40 final
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:20:20
woofack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:23
it'll need to get fixed once it starts breaking OBS Studio
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:20:24
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:20:31
proposed !agreed also, Conan Kudo is banned from Fedora immediately
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:20:32
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:35
woof
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:20:40
ack
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:20:50
ack (not sure if I still get a vote) :)
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:20:50
meow for the second 😁
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:56
ooh
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:20:58
i'll take those as acks to both from right-thinking cat folks, so bye, conan ;)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:20:58
oi!
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:09
oi oi oi
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:13
matte
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:18
welp
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:32
🪦
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:33
!agreed 2273497 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted both because a crash on a widely-used camera model (we found three affected people easily) is bad enough to block on its own, and we found other issues in snapshot in testing (for nirik it doesn't crash but never shows anything, and many folks found it shows 'No Camera Found' when run from overview). we recommend that we revert to Cheese again for F40 final
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:21
wait, i'm getting something in my earpiece...well, my extremely kind and generous cats have said we should give conan a break, he's obviously just a poor misguided fool. so i guess welcome back
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:35
!topic (2274006) [Fedora KDE] Unable to Boot - no kernel-core installed thus no bootloader entry
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:40
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2274006
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:43
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1575
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:45
!info Proposed Blocker, kernel, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:23:08
so, obviously this would be Very Bad, but...I just ran two KDE installs of Beta and they were fine. other folks here have surely installed it too, right?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:23:43
yeah, can't reproduce this either
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:23:54
Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-40_Beta-1.10.iso and Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-40-20240408.n.0.iso
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:06
I haven't had this issue with the two fresh installs, but I know of other people that have complained of serious issues with installs and upgrades related to our kernel package
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:33
this cycle has had a bunch of complaints about files being installed in the wrong place, files not getting installed, files not getting generated, etc.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:24:38
Conan Kudo: we've found in composes that getting scriptlet errors on kernel-core usually actually means you ran out of disk space
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:24:40
I cannot reproduce. I have only tried once though
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:24:41
so that can be a bit misleading
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:24:55
hmm
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:25:36
i do recall something else from earlier in the cycle too but can't quite think what it is. someone on the list says dracut 060 breaks install of self-built kernels, too
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:26:07
I tried new installs on VM here today, tree times, both beta iso and last dev iso. all installed and booted correctly
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:26:15
there's also a new report this morning about storage being broken with new dracut hostonly modules
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:26:21
I use 12GB of free virtio drive space
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:26:23
err hostonly images
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:27:29
I don't know this for certain for this case, but I know earlier in the cycle the initramfs images were being installed to the wrong place, which led to the systems not booting
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:27:46
and also the ESP filling up too :(
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:28:05
okay, the reporter just updated the report, he got a bootloader install error of some kind. we need to see what that was.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:28:28
could this happen if people had sdubby installed instead of grubby?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:28:41
it shouldn't cause this.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:28:51
also, since he's installing from a live image, that shouldn't be possible.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:29:12
Yes
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:29:15
shouldn't implies (tm) in sw... 😁
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:29:23
heh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:29:24
I saw this happen with the kiwi images last month
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:29:36
had to do more "forcing it out" to fix it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:29:49
but live images shouldn't have sdubby at all
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:29:57
i just checked the log of the latest f40 kde live, it definitely has grubby, not sdubby.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:30:24
i'd say either -woof or punt on this
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:30:43
I tend to say punt, we have one, incomplete, report
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:31:10
yeah, I vote to punt this too
punt +1
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:31:12
we can ask the reporter for more details and specific logs if anyone knows what they should find
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:31:23
i asked for the logs
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
16:31:23
punt sounds fine
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:31:27
for further investigation
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:31:36
punt offle
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:32:08
proposed !agreed 2274006 - punt (delay decision) - we are waiting for further logs from the reporter to determine what happened to them here, it seems to have been a bootloader install failure. We need to know that to fully evaluate this
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:32:17
ack
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:32:23
ack
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:32:51
ack
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:33:00
pack of woofs
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:33:25
Ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:32
!agreed 2274006 - punt (delay decision) - we are waiting for further logs from the reporter to determine what happened to them here, it seems to have been a bootloader install failure. We need to know that to fully evaluate this
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:39
!topic (2273737) [abrt] plasma-systemmonitor: QHashPrivate::iterator<QHashPrivate::Node<QModelIndex, QSortFilterProxyModelPrivate::Mapping*> >::node(): plasma-systemmonitor killed by SIGSEGV
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:42
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2273737
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:45
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1572
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:48
!info Proposed Blocker, plasma-systemmonitor, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:51
!info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+1,0,-0) (+geraldosimiao)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:29
+1 FB
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:34
This seems pretty clear-cut
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:49
preinstalled apps shouldn't just crash like this
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:35:16
With the amount of KDE preinstalled apps, this is a rather fierce one.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:35:41
:/
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:35:57
It should be default, it has more apps
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:36:13
🪦
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:48
the rule for KDE is not 'all preinstalled apps'
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:36:51
Regardless of whether KDE should be default or whether you like the coverage of default applications or not, the system monitor app should not be crashing
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:51
for KDE there's a list
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:59
'all preinstalled apps' only applies to GNOME
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:37:00
Let's stay away from politics, please :D
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:37:02
I lean +1 on this one, system monitor is pretty key
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:18
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_40_Final_Release_Criteria#Default_application_functionality
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:56
system monitor is not on that list...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:38:10
yeah, based on that...
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:38:14
And we also took that other system monitor one as a blocker, and I'm all about ideological consistency
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:38:14
how?!
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:38:16
well, I was thinking it belongs to system settings no?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:41
Brandon Nielsen: i'm thinking we probably shouldn't have.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:38:57
apparently _somehow_ the system monitor isn't on the list
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:39:00
Something, something, politics... :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:39:13
sorry, i didn't catch that in the voting on the other bug
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:39:27
well, the first bug was really terrible, I just clicked on details sidebar and choose an app and it broked
<@marcdeop:matrix.org>
16:39:29
Woof if it's mandatory / -woof if it's not
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:39:42
this last one is more tricky
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:39:47
we can at least FE it regardless
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:39:57
is there a fix in hand? or still unknown?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:40:03
one must click there and stay choosing ohter apps
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:08
but the system monitor is a core plasma component :(
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:40:12
one must click there and stay choosing other apps
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:40:21
yeah
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:40:26
that's true
<@aleasto:matrix.org>
16:40:34
unknown
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:40:48
yeah, I was thinkign on this at least
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:41:06
yeah, definitely +1 fe...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:41:16
Conan Kudo: the list was proposed to the kde mailing list at https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/HNXF7WCYQ7RAKMNGCIOXCBXERBAK44TK/ , nobody suggested adding system monitor
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:41:20
If you close the details sidebar, or don't choose another app, it don't crash
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:41:41
oh this was before I took fully over this stuff 😅
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:41:42
if we really think it should be in the list, we can vote on the basis that we have consensus it should be added
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:41:47
yeah, I was thinking on this at least
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:42:00
We can still vote for this to be a blocker if we think that it should be blocking and update the list later?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:42:07
I feel like it should be on the list
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:42:19
Me too.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:42:34
if we make this a blocker, though, is it going to get fixed? today or tomorrow?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:42:41
Botton line: If you stay at that sidebar clicking on different apps long enough system monitor will crash.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:42:51
but definitely after this cycle I need to go over the list again and make sure we have everything lined up to match what we expect
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:43:05
If you just check sometihng and close it, it doesnt crash
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:43:23
If you just check something and close it, it doesnt crash
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:43:27
I thought we didn't like changing critera when we were trying to do a release? ;)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:49
nirik: usually not, but we have done it when we think it's basically an obvious oversight
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:58
like, it should've had this all along and we just missed it because we are fallible humans
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:44:11
we don't like introducing clearly innovative new requirements
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:44:32
not mid-cycle at least
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:44:40
fair enough
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:46:34
Conan Kudo: so, are we actually in a position to *fix* this?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:46:45
of course that shouldn't really influence the decision, but i still wanna know. :D
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:47:45
Well... good question
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:48:39
It looks like redstrate was the last person to hack on it and has a bunch of merge requests in-flight: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-systemmonitor/-/merge_requests
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:48:51
so at least we can ask them to look at it once it's at blocker status
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:49:11
I think they also use Fedora KDE too, so it should be easy for them to observe :)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:49:25
we need to be doing the Final RC tomorrow
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:49:32
(at latest). to hit the first target date
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:49:54
do you really think we'll hit it?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:50:17
I usally think on the second target...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:50:20
yeah, technically if we mark this blocker we can't do an rc until we have a fix... although I suppose we could fudge and assume we wave it or something.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:23
this and the sddm thing would be the only unaddressed blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:41
swapping snapshot for cheese is trivial (i'm already sending a pr)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:50:54
let me ask them in the #kde:fedoraproject.org room
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:01
https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/pull-request/953
<@aleasto:matrix.org>
16:51:32
it shouldn't be a bug in plasma-systemsettings, it crashes in qqc2-desktop-style
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:51:48
ahh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:52:01
then this is definitely very sucky
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:52:12
that affects everything :o
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:52:46
If I have learned anything, it could still be system-monitor using qqc2-desktop-style wrong somehow
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:53:41
Are there other apps with a similar side bar?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:53:51
this is the upstream ticket, right aleasto ? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479235
<@aleasto:matrix.org>
16:54:06
yes
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:54:10
ok
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:57:51
yeah, we need to pick something here
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:58:12
well, I already voted on the ticket
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:13
i guess if kde folks agree that this should always have been in the 'critical' app list i'm a +woof
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:25
with the option to waive for being discovered late, i guess, if we can't find a fix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:40
anyone want to argue for -woof ?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:58:40
I'm fine with that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:58:44
+woof
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
16:59:12
🤣
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:59:29
FinalBlocker +1
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:59:47
With a heavy sigh
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:00:11
FinalBlocker +1 sounds fine
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:00:33
+1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:43
proposed !agreed 2273737 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a violation of Final criterion "For all release-blocking desktop / arch combinations, the following applications must start successfully and withstand a basic functionality test: ...". system monitor is not in the current list, but there is a strong consensus at the meeting (including KDE SIG folks) that this was an oversight in drafting the list and it should always have been there
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:00:49
(just got to laptop, been parallel grocery shopping 😅 )
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:57
proposed !agreed 2273737 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a violation of Final criterion "For all release-blocking desktop / arch combinations, the following applications must start successfully and withstand a basic functionality test: ...". system monitor is not in the current list, but there is a strong consensus at the meeting (including KDE SIG folks) that this was an oversight in drafting the list and it should always have been there. We will amend the list, and accept this bug in the meantime.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:10
oh hey, just realized, we never appointed a secretary...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:15
anyone wanna do that or should I?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:01:16
woof ack
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:01:17
ack
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:01:19
I can
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:01:21
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:23
ok, thanks franta
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:01:31
ack
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:01:34
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:50
!agreed 2273737 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a violation of Final criterion "For all release-blocking desktop / arch combinations, the following applications must start successfully and withstand a basic functionality test: ...". system monitor is not in the current list, but there is a strong consensus at the meeting (including KDE SIG folks) that this was an oversight in drafting the list and it should always have been there. We will amend the list, and accept this bug in the meantime
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:00
!topic (2273942) SDDM also displays users with disabled logins
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:02
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2273942
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:05
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1574
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:07
!info Proposed Blocker, sddm, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:10
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+1,0,-0) (+geraldosimiao)
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:02:24
I don't think we should block on this one, FE sounds just fine
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:02:36
it's fixable with an update post-GA
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:02:57
users would probably not start with adding hidden users after installation
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:03:44
+1 FE
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:03:49
yeah, it does seem a bit niche and reasonably fixable post-install
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:03:57
On the SDDM ticket, they suggested adding users with the `--system` switch that would make them below 1000 and not be shown. One could also make the settings manually. So this could well be Common Bugs, too, as there is a clear workaround.
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:04:17
so, to formalize my message, -1 FB, +1 FE
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:04:41
I think it does make sense for upstream to default to `false` and `nologin` users to be hidden by default
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:04:46
i'm fine with granting an FE in case we *do* want to change any code here
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:04:47
-1 FB, +1 FE
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:04:51
if not, having an FE doesn't hurt
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:04:54
but we don't have any of those out of the box
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:05:07
totally true
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:05:14
FinalFE +1
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:05:17
FinalBlocker -1
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:05:24
-1 FB
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:05:26
-1 FB
+1 FE
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:06:02
-1 FB, +1 FE
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:08:12
proposed !agreed 2273942 - RejectedBlocker (Final) AcceptedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as a blocker; it's arguably a conditional criterion violation, but only with a fairly unusual condition (manually-created user account with UID >1000 and no login shell). We do grant it an FE, though; if we do want to change the default list of shells that cause a user to be hidden it seems reasonable to do that for release
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:08:25
(honestly that FE reasoning feels a little weak, almost makes me want to be -1 fe, but ehhh)
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:08:25
ack
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:08:34
ack
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:08:49
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:09:24
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:45
!agreed 2273942 - RejectedBlocker (Final) AcceptedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as a blocker; it's arguably a conditional criterion violation, but only with a fairly unusual condition (manually-created user account with UID >1000 and no login shell). We do grant it an FE, though; if we do want to change the default list of shells that cause a user to be hidden it seems reasonable to do that for release
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:59
okay, moving on to:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:10
!topic Proposed Final freeze exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:17
!topic (2270397) container images built from unsigned packages
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:19
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2270397
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:21
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1573
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:24
!info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, distribution, ASSIGNED
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:26
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+1,0,-0) (+ngompa)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:32
i don't think this actually *needs* an fe, does it, kevin?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:10:59
it needs a infrastructure freeze break...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:11:06
right, but that's not the same thing
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:11:14
but it needs fixing... so tracking it with a fe or whatever is fine.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:11:40
I sent a freeze break a while ago to the infra list.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:11:51
well...putting it on the FE list means it's on the blockerbugs view which assumes it's tied to an f40 update and stuff
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:12:10
well I would like the koji packages in Fedora to have the patches
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:12:17
so that this doesn't happen again
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:12:22
+1ed
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:12:37
Conan Kudo: eh, sure, but we don't need to do that during freeze for f40.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:12:44
the builders aren't gonna be updated till sometime after day 0.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:13:10
once again i'll hold the line that the blocker/fe lists are not general-purpose Important Bug Lists or todo lists. :D
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:13:18
that's true, but we don't have them now anywhere in dist-git :(
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:13:38
I didn't even know they disappeared until I reviewed that bug and checked build logs
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:13:56
I don't like pushing infra specific patches into fedora/epel packages...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:14:08
but this is a sidetrack to this meeing, IMHO.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:15:12
once I get enough +1's I'll fix it and we can look at how to track better infra builds after release.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:01
rgre
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:31
i'm -1 FE unless there's a demonstrated need for this to be changed in the f40 package during the f40 release freeze.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:16:57
do we have any kind of 'blocker, but not in a package' thing?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:17:21
I guess thats something to ponder on after release too.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:17:35
yeah I think we need better tracking here
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:18:08
(noted as part of the stuff 'n things to talk about after this release that have been cropping up during this cycle)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:18:09
this might also kind of jive with some of the other in-flight things wrt cpe/infra/fesco
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:18:13
but a bit offtopic
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:18:27
nirik: sure, we can accept bugs as *blockers* that aren't to be fixed with a package update; it's more inconvenient but we do do it
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:18:35
it doesn't make sense for *freeze exception*, though, for me
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:19:28
ok, fair. This is an odd case... its important and I might try and make a case it's a blocker, but... lets just close this one and fix it elsewhere for now
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:30
the FE process solely exists to give updates an exception to the freeze, it doesn't really make sense to use it for anything else
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:19:36
right
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:41
if you wanna propose it as a blocker, fire away
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:19:53
FinalFE -1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:53
i +1ed the fbr, btw, so did neal, so you have two +1s
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:20:41
any other votes here?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:21:02
(I hope I count for those at this point...)
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:21:12
+1 FinalFE
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:21:47
Conan Kudo: my cats allow it
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:21:52
geraldosimiao: can i ask why?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:22:11
it's sysadmin-main / releng only, but review/comments are gatefully accepted by anyone. ;)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:22:20
(and that also might be something we adjust)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:22:25
nirik: oh, i thought neal counted
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:22:43
i guess i've been social engineered :D
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:23:09
neal definitely counts! (but not formally technically in this case)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:23:19
anyhow, again, sidetracking.
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:23:44
+1 ffe, if still needed
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:23:47
atm the vote is pretty much deadlocked so we'd have to punt this
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:23:53
as I understood nirik needs this for the infra?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:23:53
somehow after 8 years of contributing to infra, I still don't count 😂
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:06
geraldosimiao: we do not need an f40 fe to fix this
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:24:14
oh ok
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:17
we are not going to push anything to f40 stable for this
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:24:23
so is pointless?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:24:29
more or less
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:24:33
meh
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:24:39
so just punt
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:24:47
🤷♂️
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:59
we do not need to push anything to f40 stable to fix the f40 images, we need to do a new 'infra' build (which is a build on a special tag) for f39 and deploy it to the builders, none of that needs an f40 FE
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:25:02
I can be -1 if it helps?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:14
yes, i am attempting to engineer a -woof outcome here
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:23
i can bribe people if it helps! i've got, uh, some usb sticks and random stickers
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:25:25
I don't get it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:25:26
foow
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:25:33
-meow
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:25:35
Neal voted +1 at the ticket
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:25:38
meow
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:25:40
right
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:25:46
revised to meow
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:26:05
(ie -1)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:26:06
geraldosimiao: the bug needs fixing on the builders. they run f39. they don't run the 'official' koji build for f39 either, they run a special one that kevin (usually) builds. that's what we need to update. we don't need an F40 FE to do that.
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:26:14
lruzicka +1 too
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:26:36
let me keep counting these votes till they come out the way i want them to
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:26:48
so this request is out of place don't?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:26
geraldosimiao: basically that's what i'm arguing, yeah.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:28:34
atm we have +woof from lruzicka and possibly geraldo, -woof from me, nirik, conan
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:28:46
so !fire someone
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:28:47
FinalFE -1
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:28:49
Again
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:28:51
😁
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:28:53
oh sorry brandon
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:03
i didn't scroll up that far :D
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:29:12
I was easy to convince
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:18
ooh, yes, i could fire lruzicka
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:24
that seems reasonable
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:29:35
ok, changing here:
FinalFE -1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:43
okay, fine, lruzicka gets to keep his job
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:29:57
Thank you
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:31:16
proposed !agreed 2270397 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is clearly an important problem and we want to fix it, but an F40 Final freeze exception is no use in doing that, as the fix needs to be applied to the builders, which run Fedora 39. What we need is an infrastructure freeze break request, nirik has proposed one on the mailing list, we need releng/sysadmin-main members to vote on that at https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XFJATU5DDOUDLF7DCBY6JG5CNLKQ4MAT/
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:31:40
i feel like an early 20th century Chicago election administrator over here :D
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:31:54
ack
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:32:01
ack
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:32:01
on both affimations
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:32:09
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:32:24
ack
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:32:31
on both affirmations
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:32:36
!agreed 2270397 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is clearly an important problem and we want to fix it, but an F40 Final freeze exception is no use in doing that, as the fix needs to be applied to the builders, which run Fedora 39. What we need is an infrastructure freeze break request, nirik has proposed one on the mailing list, we need releng/sysadmin-main members to vote on that at https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XFJATU5DDOUDLF7DCBY6JG5CNLKQ4MAT/
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:32:58
okay, that's all the proposals
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:33:12
!topic Open floor
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:33:37
!info the one previously-accepted blocker is ON_QA already, the ones accepted during the meeting will need addressing by relevant teams (KDE and GNOME)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:33:46
any other business?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:33:55
don't think so
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:34:02
what about this one https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2242759
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:34:07
all is fine here
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:34:14
was that discussed? apologies if I missed it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:35:02
we didn't I don't think
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:35:10
but I don't have anything new to say
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:35:20
I'm not sure if there is anything new on it
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:35:56
last comment on ticket is from 2024-03-24
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:36:19
oh, right, that. did you manage to get anyone to come up with a workable idea?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:36:53
i'm kinda figuring in the end we'll waive it again if nobody does. the problem is basically understood...the problem is inventing a workable fix...
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:36:57
Im not entirely sure who to bother with it... :/
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:37:15
I'm not sure we have anyone to bother about it.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:37:28
I included it in the blocker report with a call out on it but I dont see any movement either
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:37:48
I know a few people who might have some ideas that I can ask, but there's basically no guarantee of anything.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:38:20
I could try a standalone email though with some of the suggested workarounds/solutions to see if anyone engages
<@frantisekz:fedora.im>
17:38:22
('ll need to run afk for the rest, will finish the secretary duties in 60-90 minutes)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:39:17
Aoife Moloney: it can't hurt!
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:39:46
will do that so
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:39:55
ok thats all I had!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:40:16
!info we are still waiting for someone to come up with a bright idea to fix 2242759 (or implement one of the current potential bright ideas and show that it's workable). Aoife Moloney will try another email to poke that along
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:40:44
Ill go ahead and schedule the go/no-go too for thursday in the hope that the blockers are resolved by then 🤞😊
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:41:12
yeah, worth a shot
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:41:18
thanks
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:41:23
anyone else got anything else?
<@geraldosimiao:matrix.org>
17:41:46
nope
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:41:52
I don't
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:44:18
I do not
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:44:31
alrighty, thanks for coming, folks
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:44:43
hopefully won't see you next week, but probably will :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:44:45
!endmeeting