2026-03-23 16:00:55 <@kparal:matrix.org> !startmeeting F44-blocker-review
2026-03-23 16:01:00 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2026-03-23 16:00:55 UTC
2026-03-23 16:01:01 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'F44-blocker-review'
2026-03-23 16:01:09 <@jlinton:fedora.im> .hi
2026-03-23 16:01:13 <@osama-albahrani:matrix.org> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Osama Albahrani (osalbahr)
2026-03-23 16:01:18 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2026-03-23 16:01:23 <@jlinton:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jeremy Linton (jlinton)
2026-03-23 16:01:31 <@derekenz:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Derek Enz (derekenz)
2026-03-23 16:01:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Roll Call
2026-03-23 16:01:41 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Don't we hold our !hi's until roll call?
2026-03-23 16:01:43 <@jgroman:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jaroslav Groman (jgroman)
2026-03-23 16:01:50 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:50 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2026-03-23 16:01:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> the bot seems delayed a lot
2026-03-23 16:01:56 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Hi Brandon
2026-03-23 16:01:56 <@psklenar:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:01:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Petr Sklenar (psklenar)
2026-03-23 16:01:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> or I'm delayed a lot 🙂
2026-03-23 16:02:01 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:02:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
2026-03-23 16:02:12 <@kparal:matrix.org> !hi
2026-03-23 16:02:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Kamil Páral (kparal) - he / him / his
2026-03-23 16:02:18 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Just blame AI
2026-03-23 16:02:38 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:02:39 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Lukáš Růžička (lruzicka)
2026-03-23 16:02:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> we'll have to make do without Adam this time, so please bear with me leading the meeting
2026-03-23 16:05:15 <@kparal:matrix.org> I sent it already, but I'm not sure if the bot saw it
2026-03-23 16:06:14 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, let's continue
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Introduction
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info The bugs up for review today are available at:
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_44_Final_Release_Criteria
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_44_Beta_Release_Criteria
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at:
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info We'll be following the process outlined at:
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs.
2026-03-23 16:06:16 <@kparal:matrix.org> Why are we here?
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 5 Accepted Freeze Exceptions
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 5 Accepted Blockers
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 0 Accepted 0-day Blockers
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 0 Accepted Previous Release Blockers
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 1 Proposed Freeze Exceptions
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> today we have:
2026-03-23 16:06:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info 3 Proposed Blockers
2026-03-23 16:06:54 <@kparal:matrix.org> anyone signing up to be the meeting secretary?
2026-03-23 16:09:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Is anyone else even here?
2026-03-23 16:09:46 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Like, in the receiving messages sense.
2026-03-23 16:10:18 <@kparal:matrix.org> it's a cold and empty room here. Alright, let's continue, we can deal with this later.
2026-03-23 16:10:29 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Proposed Blockers
2026-03-23 16:10:35 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I can do it
2026-03-23 16:10:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:10:45 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2026-03-23 16:10:59 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I've read the SOP and I'm sure I can handle it
2026-03-23 16:11:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> awesome! Do you know how, Brandon?
2026-03-23 16:11:26 <@xariann:fedora.im> !hi
2026-03-23 16:11:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Xariann Cat (xariann) - she / her / hers
2026-03-23 16:11:31 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> I can do it, too. And I am here, just trying to do some coreos stuff
2026-03-23 16:11:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Brandon Nielsen will secretarialize
2026-03-23 16:11:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> Great 🙂
2026-03-23 16:11:51 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> But if Brandon wants to try, I do not object
2026-03-23 16:12:01 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> What could possibly go wrong.
2026-03-23 16:12:04 <@kparal:matrix.org> Brandon Nielsen: if you have questions, ping Lukáš Růžička 
2026-03-23 16:12:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2448283) Selecting a non-ASCII capable keyboard layout should automatically also select US English as a second layout
2026-03-23 16:12:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Proposed Blocker, plasma-setup, NEW
2026-03-23 16:12:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2078
2026-03-23 16:12:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2448283
2026-03-23 16:12:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+0,0,-5) (-adamwill, -ngompa, -derekenz, -nielsenb, -psklenar)
2026-03-23 16:12:48 <@ngompa:fedora.im> as much as I don't like it, "equally broken" is valid enough to disqualify this
2026-03-23 16:12:55 <@kparal:matrix.org> so, people seem to agree that this is not a blocker. Even though it seems to be a good match for our release criteria.
2026-03-23 16:13:17 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it is very hard to fix in the timeframe we have, and it's broken in both GNOME and KDE
2026-03-23 16:13:27 <@ngompa:fedora.im> the only place where this works as intended is Anaconda initial-setup
2026-03-23 16:13:40 <@kparal:matrix.org> so why wouldn't we accept it as a blocker, and then use the hard-to-fix waiver?
2026-03-23 16:13:46 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we could
2026-03-23 16:13:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I'm fine with that too
2026-03-23 16:13:57 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it would also give us a door to prioritize it for F45
2026-03-23 16:14:12 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Do we apply the waiver *now*, or closer to release?
2026-03-23 16:14:26 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it would be nice if we could make it an automatic blocker for F45
2026-03-23 16:14:29 <@kparal:matrix.org> that will imply it's going to be an F45 Beta blocker, per our processes
2026-03-23 16:14:43 <@kparal:matrix.org> the waiver gets applied during go/nogo
2026-03-23 16:15:08 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I can basically guarantee that we'd need to waive it
2026-03-23 16:15:08 <@kparal:matrix.org> a hard-to-fix waiver is an automatic blocker for the next release
2026-03-23 16:15:09 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Okay
2026-03-23 16:15:15 <@ngompa:fedora.im> there's no way it's getting fixed in 4 weeks
2026-03-23 16:15:25 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Good to know
2026-03-23 16:15:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> I think this is a better approach, honestly, because it sends a message to developers that this is important to us
2026-03-23 16:15:56 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yes, I agree
2026-03-23 16:16:03 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I have forgotten this is a tool we have
2026-03-23 16:16:08 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we so rarely use it
2026-03-23 16:16:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll admit, I'm having a bit of trouble parsing the description in the BZ.
2026-03-23 16:16:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> also, we're not then violating our own release criteria principles
2026-03-23 16:16:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: the underlying issue is that when choosing a non-Latin language, there is no secondary Latin language input mode available
2026-03-23 16:17:02 <@ngompa:fedora.im> you need both for things to function properly
2026-03-23 16:17:20 <@kparal:matrix.org> the problem is that if you need to use a keyboard layout that can't print latin characters, you should be able to configure it in anaconda, which uses a us layout as a secondary layout, and then the installed system should inherit it
2026-03-23 16:17:23 <@kparal:matrix.org> that doesn't happen
2026-03-23 16:17:47 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Got it, thanks
2026-03-23 16:17:47 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Anaconda Initial Setup does this, as does Anaconda itself (obviously), but neither g-i-s nor p-s do
2026-03-23 16:18:05 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> it does not happe automatically, you can configure two layouts
2026-03-23 16:18:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yeah, this sounds like a clear violation of the cited criterion, then.
2026-03-23 16:18:18 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> it does not happen automatically, you can configure two layouts
2026-03-23 16:18:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:18:27 <@ngompa:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:18:36 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> FinalBlocker +1
2026-03-23 16:18:39 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:18:41 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Already voted
2026-03-23 16:18:41 <@psklenar:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:18:46 <@derekenz:fedora.im> FinalBlocker 0
2026-03-23 16:19:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll defer to the experts on the "hard to fix" classification
2026-03-23 16:19:13 <@kparal:matrix.org> yes, there are manual workarounds, which Adam described in the bug, they seem quite annoying to use, though
2026-03-23 16:19:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> But 4 weeks is a fair amount of time.
2026-03-23 16:19:46 <@kparal:matrix.org> FB +1 from me as well
2026-03-23 16:20:14 <@kparal:matrix.org> Derek Enz: you voted -1 in the ticket, are you keeping that vote?
2026-03-23 16:20:24 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: the actual problem is that rebuilding the locale and keyboard input settings module from scratch is not simple
2026-03-23 16:20:27 <@derekenz:fedora.im> FinalBlocker +1
2026-03-23 16:20:36 <@ngompa:fedora.im> the entire way that module works is wrong for this
2026-03-23 16:20:58 <@ngompa:fedora.im> and realistically a fix isn't landing in Plasma 6.6, but 6.7 instead
2026-03-23 16:21:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> keyboard layouts are hard 🙂 but it would be nice if it was fixed, yet
2026-03-23 16:21:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (Fedora): I said I'd defer to the experts :)
2026-03-23 16:21:20 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yeah, I'm just explaining for the benefit of logs :)
2026-03-23 16:21:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, so if I count correctly, we have -1 blocker from Adam (not here), and +7 blocker from this meeting
2026-03-23 16:22:17 <@kparal:matrix.org> including people who adjusted their vote previously in the ticket
2026-03-23 16:22:44 <@kparal:matrix.org> so I think we can override Adam here and accept this
2026-03-23 16:24:23 <@jlinton:fedora.im> So, whats the solution for non english speakers, they just avoid using fedora?
2026-03-23 16:24:27 <@kparal:matrix.org> proposed !agreed 2448283 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "keyboard layout configured in installer must be used in initial setup" criterion, when non-latin layouts are configured (and a secondary latin layout is added by the installer).
2026-03-23 16:24:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (Also, before anyone asks, absent a "hard-to-fix" waiver, I'd consider this as passing the "last-blocker-at-go-nogo" litmus test, for the sake of better international usage)
2026-03-23 16:25:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Ack
2026-03-23 16:25:11 <@derekenz:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:25:15 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> They can add a second layout in Anaconda webUI during installation
2026-03-23 16:25:18 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:25:20 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:25:22 <@psklenar:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:25:56 <@kparal:matrix.org> Jeremy Linton: install with us keyboard and then later change it, or make some manual workaround steps to pass through initial setup and then change it in the system. We will document it in common bugs.
2026-03-23 16:26:05 <@jlinton:fedora.im> Second layout being a keyboard they don't understand, from what I understand of the defect.
2026-03-23 16:26:06 <@ngompa:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:26:19 <@ngompa:fedora.im> this is not possible anymore
2026-03-23 16:26:33 <@ngompa:fedora.im> at least it didn't work last I tried
2026-03-23 16:26:52 <@kparal:matrix.org> I think the assumption is that they understand latin, because they need to use it to create user accounts anyway
2026-03-23 16:27:05 <@ngompa:fedora.im> do we have the OpenQA test that verifies this works from anaconda itself?
2026-03-23 16:27:07 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> The installer lets you choose two layouts (maybe more but I have not tested). If one is English, you are fine.
2026-03-23 16:27:39 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> I tried several times for Beta and it was possible.
2026-03-23 16:27:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> oh maybe I need to deliberately choose something that forces a second input layout, since I usually test with Japanese, and that uses QWERTY already
2026-03-23 16:28:02 <@jlinton:fedora.im> The defect talks about the primary keyboard layout then being the only one that works later in the setup, where the non latin keyboards can't actually create usable user ids.
2026-03-23 16:28:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> !agreed 2448283 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "keyboard layout configured in installer must be used in initial setup" criterion, when non-latin layouts are configured (and a secondary latin layout is added by the installer).
2026-03-23 16:28:33 <@jlinton:fedora.im> this defect is basically "the only thing that is usable is understanding enough english/latin to use the machine that way"
2026-03-23 16:28:44 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> When I start WebUI, I get Czech as a default which results in no English layout, but I am fine with that. However, I can easily add English to the setup. 
2026-03-23 16:28:58 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> And then have two layouts.
2026-03-23 16:29:40 <@ngompa:fedora.im> that makes sense
2026-03-23 16:29:48 <@kparal:matrix.org> Czech is not affected by this bug, though, because it can natively input basic latin characters
2026-03-23 16:29:50 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I've just been testing it wrong 😓
2026-03-23 16:29:54 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I've just been testing it wrong 😅
2026-03-23 16:30:02 <@kparal:matrix.org> we're talking mostly about cyrillic and similar
2026-03-23 16:30:13 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Japanese isn't affected either because its base layout is Latin QWERTY
2026-03-23 16:30:17 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, let's move to the next bug
2026-03-23 16:30:30 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> I am going to test right away.
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2446745
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+4,0,-0) (+asciiwolf, +catanzaro, +nielsenb, +kparal)
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Proposed Blocker, selinux-policy, ON_QA
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+1,0,-1) (+nielsenb, -catanzaro)
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2446745) gnome-initial-setup does not enable third party repos
2026-03-23 16:30:34 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2080
2026-03-23 16:31:10 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I would consider this a blocker since default flow stuff should work
2026-03-23 16:31:23 <@ngompa:fedora.im> and it's rather surprising that pushing the button does nothing
2026-03-23 16:31:51 <@ngompa:fedora.im> +1 FB
2026-03-23 16:31:54 <@kparal:matrix.org> this again seems to be a direct criterion violation where people, but Michael Catanzaro voted -1 because it doesn't seem serious enough to him
2026-03-23 16:32:05 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I agree it's not really serious.
2026-03-23 16:32:10 <@kparal:matrix.org> note that there is a pretty easy workaround - just start gnome-software and it asks about third party repos again
2026-03-23 16:32:12 <@ngompa:fedora.im> but also it shouldn't be hard to fix
2026-03-23 16:32:29 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it's not like the earlier one where we're talking about a rewrite of the whole logic
2026-03-23 16:32:30 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And truthfully, I feel like "No" has been ignored for ages. You say no in initial setup, and the first time to launch Gnome Software is asks again anyway.
2026-03-23 16:32:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> Neal Gompa (Fedora): I suppose it's selinux again
2026-03-23 16:32:45 <@mcatanzaro:gnome.org> The primary risk here is embarassment. Basic things not worknig looks bad.
2026-03-23 16:33:00 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> But I feel like the first 5 minutes of user experience is the most important. Stuff presented in initial setup should just work.
2026-03-23 16:33:08 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I agree too.
2026-03-23 16:33:12 <@mcatanzaro:gnome.org> Reportedly there is a second problem after selinux is fixed, but we can evaluate that after the update reaches stable.
2026-03-23 16:33:13 <@xariann:fedora.im> I would feel like a new user would get very confused if it didn't work
2026-03-23 16:33:23 <@mcatanzaro:gnome.org> The primary risk here is embarassment. Basic things not working looks bad.
2026-03-23 16:33:25 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we should care about front door experiences, because they set the impression of the OS forever
2026-03-23 16:33:38 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Right, it's hard to build a good reputation, easy to lose it.
2026-03-23 16:33:45 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Saw that. Is that the expected behavior?
2026-03-23 16:33:46 <@kparal:matrix.org> I don't have a strong opinion here, it's a direct violation, but the consequences are quite minor for most users (just another dialog prompt)
2026-03-23 16:34:11 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> It's been doing it for as long as I can remember if you say "No" during initial setup.
2026-03-23 16:34:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> if gnome-software didn't ask, I would be +1 blocker
2026-03-23 16:34:35 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Hmmm dont recall seeing two messages
2026-03-23 16:34:45 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Before
2026-03-23 16:35:24 <@kparal:matrix.org> I can confirm it asks simply every time (maybe except if you approve it in initial setup and it actually work, then I guess it doesn't).
2026-03-23 16:35:39 <@kparal:matrix.org> so it's likely expected, or at least not a regression
2026-03-23 16:35:54 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Ok so the initial message isnt working
2026-03-23 16:36:41 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> I never understood why GIS asks about it and Software again. But if it asks, it should work.
2026-03-23 16:36:47 <@kparal:matrix.org> currently we're at +2/-1
2026-03-23 16:36:55 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> FinalBlocker +1
2026-03-23 16:36:56 <@derekenz:fedora.im> FB +1
2026-03-23 16:37:00 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Agreed, I wish it just didn't.
2026-03-23 16:37:01 <@xariann:fedora.im> FB +1
2026-03-23 16:37:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:37:40 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> FinalBlocker +1
2026-03-23 16:38:17 <@kparal:matrix.org> I'm somewhere between +0 and a weak +1
2026-03-23 16:38:48 <@kparal:matrix.org> I see +6.5/-1
2026-03-23 16:40:06 <@kparal:matrix.org> proposed !agreed 2446745 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "each page or panel of the initial setup utility should withstand a basic functionality test" criterion.
2026-03-23 16:40:15 <@derekenz:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:40:23 <@jgroman:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:40:25 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:40:41 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:40:50 <@psklenar:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:40:53 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:41:54 <@kparal:matrix.org> !agreed 2446745 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "each page or panel of the initial setup utility should withstand a basic functionality test" criterion.
2026-03-23 16:42:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2448365) rpi4 fails to boot from usb drive after upgrade to RC3
2026-03-23 16:42:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+5,0,-0) (+adamwill, +jgroman, +derekenz, +nielsenb, +kparal)
2026-03-23 16:42:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Proposed Blocker, uboot-tools, ASSIGNED
2026-03-23 16:42:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2079
2026-03-23 16:42:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2448365
2026-03-23 16:42:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> this is the last proposed blocker
2026-03-23 16:42:37 <@kparal:matrix.org> I nominated it directly because I have no idea whether it should be 😄 
2026-03-23 16:42:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> i.e. how important is USB boot for RPi devices
2026-03-23 16:43:13 <@ngompa:fedora.im> my understanding is that RPi devices are blocking devices
2026-03-23 16:43:17 <@ngompa:fedora.im> so it probably should be
2026-03-23 16:43:26 <@kparal:matrix.org> do we have Peter Robinson ?
2026-03-23 16:43:38 <@derekenz:fedora.im> I dont but some folks use USB it seems
2026-03-23 16:43:45 <@derekenz:fedora.im> For the Rpi
2026-03-23 16:44:05 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I use usb for the rpi400 I do testing with, so it'd be nice if this worked 😅
2026-03-23 16:44:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> Jeremy Linton: could also help us here?
2026-03-23 16:44:40 <@derekenz:fedora.im> I probably should test that more lol
2026-03-23 16:44:58 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I literally always forget running off USB is an option
2026-03-23 16:45:01 <@kparal:matrix.org> we no longer have a list of blocking devices and their features, we decided on case by case basis based on how aarch64 hardware is popular, similar to x86_64
2026-03-23 16:45:06 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I'm just so used to uSD for Pis
2026-03-23 16:45:28 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> Jeremy Linton: So, I have now installed F44 Beta using both English and Russian keyboard layout and the Russian language. When I started Anaconda webUI, it selected Czech (based on my GEO) but left keyboard to EN which would end up in installation of a Czech system with English layout (probably not good), anyway, I added a Russian layout instead and switched to Russian, installed Fedora, did not change anything in GIS and ended up with English/Russian keyboard layout, working normally. So maybe the bug sounds ambiguous?
2026-03-23 16:45:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> we no longer have a list of blocking devices and their features, we decide on case by case basis based on how aarch64 hardware is popular, similar to x86\_64
2026-03-23 16:45:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> Lukáš Růžička: can we get back to it in the open floor perhaps?
2026-03-23 16:46:16 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> We can, if there is interest.
2026-03-23 16:46:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> or we can switch back to it once the rpi bug is done
2026-03-23 16:46:34 <@jlinton:fedora.im> I have a couple pi's but they are edk2... I guess its possible to reinstall one of them. sigh. 
2026-03-23 16:46:54 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I keep wanting to try edk2, never get to it
2026-03-23 16:47:15 <@ngompa:fedora.im> the experience is nicer :)
2026-03-23 16:47:15 <@kparal:matrix.org> let's not discuss two bugs simmultaneously
2026-03-23 16:48:15 <@jlinton:fedora.im> I think pbrobinson has talked about this kind of stuff in the past because of the uboot release cycle means it doesn't release until late in the fedora release cycle so it needs a last minuite update nearly every cycle.
2026-03-23 16:48:16 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> RPI 400 can be installed using USB? I only installed with an image burnt to a card.
2026-03-23 16:49:35 <@kparal:matrix.org> Jaroslav Groman: you said you used usb boot for F44 Beta and it worked ok, right?
2026-03-23 16:49:54 <@jgroman:fedora.im> yep, beta worked fine
2026-03-23 16:49:58 <@kparal:matrix.org> anyone has any idea whether this is so important feature to block F44 Final on it?
2026-03-23 16:50:32 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yes it can, all RPi4 series devices can with a correctly working uboot
2026-03-23 16:50:34 <@ngompa:fedora.im> or with edk2
2026-03-23 16:50:53 <@kashyapc:fedora.im> You can try in a VM :)
2026-03-23 16:50:55 <@jlinton:fedora.im> USB storage is almost required for fedora, i've killed a bunch of SD cards trying to run it on them, whatever magic disk pattern fedora uses for journal/etc its not kind.
2026-03-23 16:51:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Most Pi installs are done via burning an image which can be updated after GA, correct?
2026-03-23 16:51:43 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we have no process for updating ARM images
2026-03-23 16:51:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> that's what makes it a problem
2026-03-23 16:52:02 <@kparal:matrix.org> ah, so this is not just about booting the installer from a flash drive? This is actually about installing the system to a usb disk and then running the installed system from it permanently?
2026-03-23 16:52:07 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yes
2026-03-23 16:52:25 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, I had no idea!
2026-03-23 16:52:36 <@ngompa:fedora.im> using the iso requires edk2, booting the disk image from usb is what we're talking about
2026-03-23 16:52:38 <@kparal:matrix.org> well, then this is bit more serious than I thought it was
2026-03-23 16:53:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yeah, with that information, I'm a +1 FinalBlocker here
2026-03-23 16:53:03 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Yeah
2026-03-23 16:53:15 <@ngompa:fedora.im> +1 FinalBlocker
2026-03-23 16:53:15 <@derekenz:fedora.im> FB +1
2026-03-23 16:53:29 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> FinalBlocker +1
2026-03-23 16:53:35 <@jgroman:fedora.im> FB +1
2026-03-23 16:54:05 <@kparal:matrix.org> I guess we wouldn't block x86 on booting the installed system (not the installer) from usb, would we? OTOH this use case seems much more useful for aarch64 than x86
2026-03-23 16:54:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yes we would
2026-03-23 16:54:43 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yeah, this is the most common way to boot a Pi as far as I'm aware
2026-03-23 16:54:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we definitely would
2026-03-23 16:54:54 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And I'm guessing the Pi is still one of the most common aarch64 platforms
2026-03-23 16:55:31 <@ngompa:fedora.im> people install fedora to removable drives on x86 too, it's just not commonly done in fedora testing
2026-03-23 16:55:40 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> We are booting a LIVE system, which looks similar to me. I would block on it.
2026-03-23 16:55:42 <@jlinton:fedora.im> well normal pi4, not the p400 likely.
2026-03-23 16:56:10 <@ngompa:fedora.im> and of course, we _could_ make x86 disk images like we do for aarch64
2026-03-23 16:56:10 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I actually don't see an install to USB test case?
2026-03-23 16:56:19 <@jlinton:fedora.im> There is one, 
2026-03-23 16:56:44 <@kparal:matrix.org> proposed !agreed 2448365 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "the installed system must boot" criterion (in "Expected installed system boot behavior"), when booting a RPi system installed to a USB device.
2026-03-23 16:56:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:56:53 <@derekenz:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:56:57 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:56:59 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:57:08 <@ngompa:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:57:25 <@psklenar:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 16:57:31 <@kparal:matrix.org> !agreed 2448365 - accepted as a final blocker - This is a violation of "the installed system must boot" criterion (in "Expected installed system boot behavior"), when booting a RPi system installed to a USB device.
2026-03-23 16:57:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, do you want to go back to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2446745 Lukáš Růžička ?
2026-03-23 16:58:04 <@kparal:matrix.org> errr
2026-03-23 16:58:10 <@kparal:matrix.org> back to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2448283
2026-03-23 16:58:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> or we can debug in bugzilla, to clarify when it breaks exactly. If it turns out to be different than we expected, we can re-do the blocker vote.
2026-03-23 16:59:14 <@kparal:matrix.org> I suggest trying the Adam's steps first
2026-03-23 16:59:57 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> Well, in Bugzilla this only describes KDE. I tried on Workstation. I will have to retry on KDE to know more.
2026-03-23 17:00:33 <@kparal:matrix.org> the gnome one is already upstream, linked from that bugzilla
2026-03-23 17:01:00 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we will probably want to make a g-i-s counterpart rhbz for f45
2026-03-23 17:01:04 <@kparal:matrix.org> alright, let's debug this one after the meeting/tomorrow, and move on
2026-03-23 17:01:30 <@kparal:matrix.org> yeah, probably
2026-03-23 17:01:39 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> For me, it works in Gnome as described above, so I believe that the situation does not stand like "nobody is able to use Fedora in Cyrillic countries."
2026-03-23 17:01:50 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Proposed Freeze Exceptions
2026-03-23 17:02:07 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> I still support to block on this not being created automatically.
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2373699
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2007
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, fedora-obsolete-packages, ASSIGNED
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+2,0,-0) (+kparal, +psklenar)
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2373699) Obsolete packages that used to require Python 3.13 but are gone in Fedora 43 and 44
2026-03-23 17:02:09 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Ticket vote: BetaFreezeException (+5,0,-0) (+nielsenb, +derekenz, +lruzicka, +boniboyblue, +psklenar)
2026-03-23 17:02:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> we approved this for Beta, I think it's a thumbs up for Final as well
2026-03-23 17:03:23 <@kparal:matrix.org> Miro takes care about Python dependencies each cycle
2026-03-23 17:03:30 <@kparal:matrix.org> Miro takes care of Python dependencies each cycle
2026-03-23 17:04:52 <@kparal:matrix.org> votes?
2026-03-23 17:05:11 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> FinalFE +1
2026-03-23 17:05:50 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> FinalFE +1
2026-03-23 17:06:06 <@jgroman:fedora.im> FinalFE +1
2026-03-23 17:06:21 <@kparal:matrix.org> proposed !agreed 2373699 - accepted as a final freeze exception - This helps fix broken dependencies in the main repo and also for pre-release users. 
2026-03-23 17:06:41 <@derekenz:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 17:06:46 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 17:07:10 <@jgroman:fedora.im> ack
2026-03-23 17:07:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> !agreed 2373699 - accepted as a final freeze exception - This helps fix broken dependencies in the main repo and also for pre-release users. 
2026-03-23 17:08:02 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, the most favorite part of the meeting, let's go through accepted blockers
2026-03-23 17:08:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Accepted Blockers
2026-03-23 17:08:28 <@kparal:matrix.org> I'll skip the oversize images bugs, there's not much to discuss there
2026-03-23 17:08:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2074
2026-03-23 17:08:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Accepted Blocker, mesa, NEW
2026-03-23 17:08:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2359799) Inital-setup: VK_ERROR_DEVICE_LOST using nvidia hardware
2026-03-23 17:08:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2359799
2026-03-23 17:10:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> we still need someone with an nvidia card (who uses those?! the whole world, apparently... ☹️ ) to reproduce it and perhaps provide better logs, or try some workarounds, not sure. And a developer to start looking at it as well.
2026-03-23 17:11:26 <@kparal:matrix.org> Michael Catanzaro: have anyone from the gnome team tried to look at it? Perhaps it's some incorrect call from g-i-s/gtk after all?
2026-03-23 17:13:26 <@kparal:matrix.org> it just occurred to me that on my laptop I could've tried with F43, because it might actually be fixed in latest F44. Or do we have reports from F44 as well?
2026-03-23 17:13:31 <@mcatanzaro:gnome.org> Kamil Páral I'm afraid I don't know much about graphics. I think if anybody had investigated, they would have mentioned it in the bug report....
2026-03-23 17:13:57 <@mcatanzaro:gnome.org> I don't know of any reports from F44 users. F42 and F43 are definitely broken.
2026-03-23 17:14:53 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, if people have some nvidia cards, please try this with F43, and if it's broken there, also with latest F44, and update bugzilla. Thanks!
2026-03-23 17:15:20 <@kparal:matrix.org> going to the next one
2026-03-23 17:15:22 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2391723
2026-03-23 17:15:22 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic (2391723) `shim-ia32` missing since `shim-15.8-4`
2026-03-23 17:15:22 <@kparal:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/2075
2026-03-23 17:15:22 <@kparal:matrix.org> !info Accepted Blocker, shim, MODIFIED
2026-03-23 17:16:28 <@kparal:matrix.org> it seems we need to get https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2391723 pushed
2026-03-23 17:16:40 <@kparal:matrix.org> it seems we need to get https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2026-ea1a86a8eb pushed
2026-03-23 17:17:18 <@kparal:matrix.org> I just gave it +1 karma, please do as well
2026-03-23 17:17:42 <@kparal:matrix.org> once it has +3, it will go stable, and then the next image should be built with it, and we'll see if this is fixed
2026-03-23 17:18:25 <@kparal:matrix.org> anything else to note?
2026-03-23 17:19:17 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, that brings us to...
2026-03-23 17:19:20 <@kparal:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2026-03-23 17:19:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> if you think blocker meetings are too short, this is your chance to bump the average length! 😄 
2026-03-23 17:20:11 <@kparal:matrix.org> do anyone have any topic?
2026-03-23 17:20:17 <@kparal:matrix.org> does anyone have any topic?
2026-03-23 17:20:19 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Nothing here
2026-03-23 17:20:38 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Not from me
2026-03-23 17:20:42 <@lruzicka:fedora.im> Nosing
2026-03-23 17:22:18 <@kparal:matrix.org> Alright, let's go home (meaning up the hallway to the kitchen, obviously)
2026-03-23 17:22:24 <@kparal:matrix.org> thanks for attending, everyone
2026-03-23 17:22:28 <@kparal:matrix.org> !endmeeting