16:01:40 <andreasn> #startmeeting Cockpit public meeting 2014-11-10 16:01:40 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 10 16:01:40 2014 UTC. The chair is andreasn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:01:40 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:01:50 <andreasn> #meetingname Cockpit 16:01:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'cockpit' 16:02:04 <andreasn> #chair stefw andreasn mvollmer 16:02:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: andreasn mvollmer stefw 16:02:12 <andreasn> #topic welcome 16:02:17 <andreasn> .hellomynameis andreasn 16:02:19 <zodbot> andreasn: andreasn 'Andreas Nilsson' <anilsson@redhat.com> 16:02:31 <mvollmer> .hellomynameis mvo 16:02:32 <zodbot> mvollmer: mvo 'Marius Vollmer' <marius.vollmer@gmail.com> 16:02:56 <mvollmer> ok, agenda. 16:02:56 <stefw> .hello stefw 16:02:57 <zodbot> stefw: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com> 16:03:09 <andreasn> anyone else? 16:03:29 <mvollmer> * multi dash status 16:03:32 <andreasn> seems note 16:03:34 <andreasn> #topic Agenda 16:03:53 <andreasn> * multi dash status 16:04:04 <andreasn> * Fedora 21 Server branding 16:04:15 <andreasn> * translation work 16:04:21 <mvollmer> * web site update 16:04:37 <mvollmer> * atomic? 16:04:40 <andreasn> yeah 16:05:07 <andreasn> sounds good 16:05:20 <mvollmer> * road map, as always 16:05:34 <andreasn> sounds like a good agenda, lets run with thta 16:05:36 <andreasn> that 16:05:39 <andreasn> stefw said he need to leave soon 16:05:41 <mvollmer> stefw, do you want to start? 16:05:44 <andreasn> so lets start with his item 16:05:51 <stefw> sure, the translation stuff ... 16:05:53 <andreasn> #topic translation work 16:06:02 <stefw> so unfortunately, we found another blocker for modularizing real code 16:06:11 <stefw> i was working through modularizing the journal 16:06:19 <stefw> and remembered that we've been putting off translation 16:06:50 <stefw> while reworking code for the modularization, we're cleaning up various things, and this should probably be one of them 16:07:15 <stefw> not only making sure that it's possible to do sane translations for our packages 16:07:28 <stefw> but also tagging stuff correctly as we rework it to put it in a package 16:07:39 <stefw> calling the right internationalization functions, etc. 16:07:44 <stefw> so today i've been working on figuring that out 16:07:51 <stefw> it's coming together well 16:07:59 <stefw> i've figured out expanding pluralization 16:08:11 <stefw> which ended up being pretty easy, using javasript eval() 16:08:24 <stefw> i've also ditched the perl based po2json 16:08:27 <stefw> because i don't like perl :) 16:08:35 <stefw> and moved to a nodejs based one 16:08:45 <stefw> talked with mvollmer about this 16:08:53 <stefw> we want to not require nodejs to build from a tarball 16:09:01 <stefw> but it'll pretty much be required for building from git 16:09:07 <stefw> we already use it for phantomjs 16:09:24 <stefw> in addition RHEL does not have perl-Locale-PO 16:09:35 <stefw> so this does solve several build issues 16:09:40 <stefw> that i've run into there 16:09:49 * stefw thinks that's it 16:10:15 <mvollmer> how does JS eval() work in this context? 16:10:31 <mvollmer> translators write JS and we evaluate it? 16:10:31 <stefw> the gnu plural form is in a C type mini-language 16:10:35 <stefw> that works perfectly with javascript 16:10:45 <stefw> as long as we trust our PO sources, we should be good 16:10:46 <mvollmer> oh. 16:10:59 <stefw> http://localization-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/l10n/pluralforms.html 16:11:10 <stefw> see that link for pluralization form examples 16:11:31 <stefw> russian is fun 16:11:44 <stefw> previously we weren't doing correct pluralization 16:11:49 <stefw> and that would have bit us later 16:12:15 <stefw> mvollmer, i'll be working on one gettext domain for all of cockpit for now 16:12:30 <stefw> we get some cache winnings, even though we're loading strings that each iframe doesn't need 16:12:30 <mvollmer> welsh... :-) 16:12:49 <stefw> anything with a mod % operator is gold 16:13:05 <mvollmer> so we import translations into our sources and then ship them all in the rpms, right? 16:13:13 <stefw> yes 16:13:21 <stefw> i'm putting them in the base module for now 16:13:26 <mvollmer> ok. 16:13:31 <stefw> because i'm already reinventing enough stuff here 16:13:37 <stefw> but we can move them later 16:13:38 <stefw> if necessary 16:13:44 <stefw> it doesn't need to be part of the public API, in any case 16:13:53 <stefw> there are some new localization functions that are part of the public api 16:14:01 <mvollmer> how do you like the 'translatable="yes"' markup? 16:14:02 <stefw> ie: loc = cockpit.locale(bundle) 16:14:08 <stefw> mvollmer, that works pretty well 16:14:16 <stefw> obviously it doesn't work for plurals 16:14:17 <mvollmer> it's verbose, no? 16:14:21 <stefw> but that's not a surprise 16:14:32 <stefw> mvollmer, if we want to switch to something more succinct i wouldn't be against it 16:14:42 <mvollmer> let's think about it. 16:14:48 <stefw> ok, i gotta run 16:14:56 <mvollmer> right now, I think we get free scanning from gettext 16:15:01 <mvollmer> stefw, ok, take care! 16:15:12 <andreasn> see you tomorrow! 16:15:18 <andreasn> ok, next topic then 16:15:27 <mvollmer> yep 16:15:35 <andreasn> #topic multi dash status 16:15:38 <mvollmer> right 16:15:45 <mvollmer> coming together very nicely 16:15:53 <andreasn> yes, I agree 16:15:55 <mvollmer> I'll split it into multiple pull requests. 16:16:08 <andreasn> sounds good 16:16:26 <mvollmer> and let's attack PCP correctly this time. 16:16:44 <andreasn> will the reboot messages get into this pull request, or will that come later? 16:17:38 <mvollmer> so after the basics in #1455, i want to tackle PCP for long term monitoring, with a stable, cross-OS API via cockpit-bridge (maybe D-Bus, maybe not) 16:17:47 <mvollmer> need to discuss this with stef 16:18:04 <mvollmer> after that come events. 16:18:06 <andreasn> just so the Events part don't get hanging too long 16:18:37 <andreasn> all right 16:18:38 <mvollmer> ah, and before PCP come avatar and color choosers. 16:18:43 <andreasn> right 16:19:06 <andreasn> I'll be testing this branch out some more 16:19:10 <andreasn> but looks very good already 16:19:15 <mvollmer> can't say how long this will take, but it's the immediate short term road map for me, so maybe two weeks or so. 16:19:25 <andreasn> ok 16:19:40 <andreasn> ok, next topic? 16:19:51 <mvollmer> wait 16:19:56 <andreasn> sure :) 16:20:32 <mvollmer> one sub-topic is probably a bit of bug hunting to get more reliable error reporting when there are network problems etc. 16:20:48 <mvollmer> ok, done. :-) 16:21:04 <andreasn> right, lets discuss that more tomorrow with stefw 16:21:22 <mvollmer> and fche2 if he is available. 16:21:25 <andreasn> yeah 16:21:36 <andreasn> #topic Fedora 21 Branding 16:21:53 <andreasn> so, I did some work on Friday on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1161775 16:22:05 <fche2> hey guys 16:22:08 <andreasn> still work in progress, but hope to be done with it this week 16:22:12 <andreasn> hi fche2! 16:22:20 <andreasn> #chair fche2 16:22:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: andreasn fche2 mvollmer stefw 16:22:29 * fche2 prefers a stool 16:22:36 <mvollmer> :-) 16:22:45 <mvollmer> #stool fche2 16:23:11 * fche2 still has some deliverables in the queue for you guys (and others), in the form of a much simpler api for use by the cockpit-agentd widget 16:23:22 <mvollmer> fche2, great! 16:23:25 <andreasn> I think we should have an easy way to switch out the logos for other distributions too, but we'll tackle that seperatley 16:23:45 <andreasn> I think there is a issue open about that already 16:23:48 <andreasn> ok, done re branding 16:24:09 <mvollmer> intermission for fche2? 16:24:21 <andreasn> yes 16:24:27 <andreasn> what should I call that topic? 16:24:29 <mvollmer> fche2, we ware just saying that now is the time for us to get serious about PCP. 16:24:32 <mvollmer> *were 16:24:42 <andreasn> #topic PCP 16:24:47 <mvollmer> (fche2, we have a meeting here :-) 16:24:56 <fche2> ok 16:25:23 <mvollmer> so now I think we know what we really want from PCP 16:25:43 <fche2> out with it 16:25:55 <mvollmer> which is long term monitoring behind a pretty abstract API that we can implement on all our supported OSes. 16:26:28 <mvollmer> so, we need to sort out background monitoring 16:27:26 <mvollmer> that API should also do real-time monitoring, with higher frequencies. 16:28:32 <mvollmer> should be right in the comfortzone of PCP, no? 16:28:42 <fche2> ok. so viewing pcp as an api, an app such as cockpitd can do all those things directly now, in the sense that pcp is a cross-platform api, which a client can use to poll data as (in)frequently as desired, 16:29:02 <fche2> (the simpler api under construction will turn those into few-liners rather than few-dozen-liners) 16:29:25 <mvollmer> does pcp have it owns background data gatherer? 16:29:33 <fche2> viewing pcp as a service, where another process does background monitoring, logging, that too is there 16:29:41 <mvollmer> right 16:29:49 <fche2> (and those logs can be read by pcp clients via the api or command line tools, now) 16:30:42 <mvollmer> ok, I guess we just have to figure out the details and best practices. 16:30:44 <fche2> so in a way all you need is a configuration of these things that works for you, and perhaps a bit of RPC where pcp doesn't already 16:31:17 <fche2> (that RPC angle comes in when one's talking about logging across the network) 16:31:43 <mvollmer> fche2, sounds great! I'll get back to you in a few days, ok? :-) 16:31:52 <fche2> certainly. 16:32:04 <mvollmer> let's continue the meeting. thanks! 16:32:08 <fche2> so far I was focusing on a little bit of the overall angle, but if y'all are ready to talk big picture, whenever, sure 16:32:22 <mvollmer> yep 16:32:26 <andreasn> thanks fche2! 16:32:30 <andreasn> ok, next topic 16:32:31 <fche2> np, any time 16:32:36 <andreasn> #topic website updates 16:32:50 <andreasn> so I filed a bunch of issues I hope to get to this week https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit-project.github.io/issues 16:32:58 <andreasn> did I miss anything we discussed? 16:34:23 <mvollmer> maybe videos? 16:34:44 <andreasn> some screencasts would be great yeah 16:34:46 <mvollmer> my biggest question is how we approach Atomic 16:34:59 <andreasn> no idea 16:35:12 <mvollmer> there is project atomic, fedora atomic, and centos atomic. 16:35:34 <mvollmer> we can just point to project atomic, or directly to fedora or centos. 16:35:42 <andreasn> what of them include cockpit? 16:35:48 <mvollmer> all 16:36:14 <andreasn> right. Any of them have a more up to date version than any other? 16:36:26 <andreasn> Newer cockpit = better 16:36:32 <mvollmer> well, project atomic is mostly about the tools, like rpm/yum; Fedora Atomic and CentOS Atomic are the actual OSes. 16:36:58 <mvollmer> don't know what they have or how they update. 16:37:19 <mvollmer> what about making a page with all the ways to get cockpit that we know of? 16:37:31 <andreasn> yeah, sounds good 16:37:39 <mvollmer> and link to that from the front page? 16:38:09 <andreasn> sure. Can you file an issue about that? 16:38:14 <mvollmer> yes. 16:38:18 <andreasn> just so I don't forget when I work through them 16:38:38 <mvollmer> it's related to #12. should I change that? 16:39:11 <andreasn> yeah, just leave a comment 16:39:41 <mvollmer> ok 16:39:52 <andreasn> I mean, the main goal is to try out Cockpit, but having a choice between the kind of OS, atomic or more regular will be good 16:40:38 <andreasn> but yeah, lets continue discussing on the issue tracker 16:41:00 <andreasn> next topic is Atomic 16:41:04 <andreasn> #topic Atomic 16:41:48 <mvollmer> stefw managed to get Cockpit running via a container, awesome stuff. 16:41:54 <andreasn> yeah, that's cool 16:42:06 <andreasn> is it fully functional? 16:42:17 <mvollmer> no 16:42:32 <mvollmer> I think we can call it "Cocker". :-) 16:42:46 <andreasn> tss 16:43:10 <andreasn> is it in master yet? 16:43:12 <mvollmer> anyway, it works well enough and personally I see it more as a discussion starter 16:43:18 <mvollmer> yes, it's in master. 16:43:18 <andreasn> yes 16:43:21 <andreasn> great 16:43:29 <andreasn> how do I try it out? 16:43:43 <mvollmer> ./tools/make-docker 16:44:03 <mvollmer> and then some magic docker run command. 16:44:13 <andreasn> neat 16:44:42 <andreasn> do we need to discuss anything about the Atomic features on the roadmap, or should we wait with that, since other things are coming up? 16:44:51 <mvollmer> right now, both Fedora and CentOS atomic include Cockpit as rpms, but maybe they want to stop doing that. 16:45:22 <andreasn> Fedora Atomic and CentOS Atomic, right? 16:45:26 <mvollmer> but in any case, Cockpit in Atomic needs to be better tailored to it. 16:45:50 <mvollmer> to reduce unwanted dependencies, and to improve UX. 16:45:56 <andreasn> yes 16:46:16 <mvollmer> this will come with/after the modularization has been completed. 16:46:34 <andreasn> ok, so lets wait with those feature discussions a bit then 16:47:43 <andreasn> onto roadmap? 16:47:55 <mvollmer> that should be the last topic 16:48:00 <mvollmer> do we have anything else? 16:48:06 <andreasn> #topic roadmap 16:48:23 <mvollmer> ok 16:48:34 <mvollmer> andreasn, how do you feel about the patternfly update? 16:48:37 <andreasn> I'll add website updates to the roadmap 16:48:51 <andreasn> it needs to be done, but I haven't started tackling it yet 16:49:19 <andreasn> but should be doable within 4 weeks 16:49:41 <andreasn> we should add PCP there too 16:49:49 <mvollmer> yes 16:49:50 <andreasn> what should that point be called? 16:51:19 <andreasn> "PCP intergration?" 16:51:25 <mvollmer> "Cross-OS API for long term monitoring of resources and important events." 16:52:10 <andreasn> added that and the website updates 16:53:16 <mvollmer> ok 16:53:22 <andreasn> ok, open floor next I guess 16:53:26 <andreasn> #topic open floor 16:53:36 <andreasn> anything else for todays meeting? 16:53:39 <andreasn> I don't really have anything 16:53:57 <mvollmer> andreasn, what about removing Navigation redesign from the road map and putting multi-server dashboard makeover on it? 16:54:20 <andreasn> yes, sounds good 16:54:49 <mvollmer> are you going to edit the wiki? 16:55:22 <andreasn> I did already 16:55:31 <andreasn> reload :) 16:55:43 <mvollmer> yes! :-) 16:56:02 <andreasn> all right, that's all for today then 16:56:08 <andreasn> #endmeeting