16:05:38 <andreasn___> #startmeeting Cockpit meeting 2014-11-24
16:05:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 24 16:05:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is andreasn___. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:05:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:05:56 <andreasn___> #meetingname Cockpit
16:05:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'cockpit'
16:06:11 <andreasn___> #chair mvollmer stefw sgallagh andreasn
16:06:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: andreasn andreasn___ mvollmer sgallagh stefw
16:06:32 <sgallagh> /me waves
16:06:35 <andreasn___> .hellomynameis andreasn
16:06:36 <zodbot> andreasn___: andreasn 'Andreas Nilsson' <anilsson@redhat.com>
16:06:40 <mvollmer> .hello mvo
16:06:40 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
16:06:40 <stefw> .hello stefw
16:06:40 <zodbot> mvollmer: mvo 'Marius Vollmer' <marius.vollmer@gmail.com>
16:06:43 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:06:46 <zodbot> stefw: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com>
16:07:03 <andreasn___> #topic agenda
16:07:11 <andreasn___> what do we have this week?
16:07:14 <stefw> * Usability of host switcher
16:07:17 <stefw> * Trello for roadmap?
16:07:30 <stefw> * Report on channel metrics
16:07:38 <stefw> * Report on components
16:07:46 <stefw> or status rather
16:08:12 <mvollmer> * Status of FS channels
16:11:21 <andreasn____> am I back?
16:11:21 <andreasn____> ugh
16:11:26 <stefw> yup
16:11:35 <andreasn> sorry about that. Funky connection
16:12:06 <andreasn> did I manage to create the topic, or was that while being actually disconnected?
16:12:20 <stefw> no topic yet
16:12:46 <andreasn> all right, lets see
16:12:51 <andreasn> #topic Usability of host switcher
16:13:00 <andreasn> https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/pull/1467
16:13:04 <stefw> so i find myself fighting with the host switcher a lot
16:13:13 <andreasn> in what way?
16:13:22 <stefw> * it provides no useful value being displayed by default when only viewing one server
16:13:23 <andreasn> the sidebar or the dashboard?
16:13:27 <stefw> on the sidebar
16:13:34 <stefw> it causes the page layout to break
16:13:37 <stefw> so i turn it off
16:13:47 <andreasn> yeah, the page breaks are annoying
16:13:49 <stefw> but then it shows up again, and my preference is not saved
16:14:01 <stefw> in addition, the only way to the dashboard which *is* useful with one server
16:14:13 <stefw> is via the host switcher which totally not useful when i only have one server
16:14:42 <stefw> i wonder if we can have the dashboard be accessible without the host switcher
16:14:52 <mvollmer> i keep clicking the hamburger and expect to go to the dashboard
16:14:54 <stefw> and have the hostswitcher be an overlay drop down that's not displayed by default
16:14:57 <stefw> mvollmer, yes me too
16:15:27 <andreasn> like a bubble?
16:15:30 <andreasn> yeah, could work
16:15:33 <mvollmer> "popover"
16:15:43 <mvollmer> that's the technical term, no?
16:15:50 <stefw> or at the very least keep the sidebar as a sidebar, but:
16:15:50 <stefw> * not make it display by default
16:15:51 <stefw> * make it remember whether you like it or not
16:15:58 <stefw> * allow access to dashboard that isn't via the host switcher
16:16:12 <andreasn> I wonder if we can have different experience for when having just one server and when having +1
16:16:17 <mvollmer> stefw, how does it come back for you?
16:16:42 <stefw> andreasn, i the key when going from 1 to N servers, is  is that the sidebar should remember whether you wanted it to be displayed or not
16:16:54 <stefw> mvollmer, when i log into cockpit again, the sidebar is back
16:17:00 <mvollmer> right
16:17:06 <stefw> it's also back because i used it to get to the dashboard, even though i didn't want to bring it back :D
16:17:09 <andreasn> yeah
16:17:35 <mvollmer> per-user config should be easy now
16:17:43 <stefw> why not just localStorage()?
16:17:45 <mvollmer> ot a cookie?
16:17:52 <mvollmer> right
16:17:55 <stefw> cookies mean more data in the server round trip
16:17:59 <stefw> i think we can rely on localStorage
16:18:04 <mvollmer> yes, localStorage
16:18:17 <mvollmer> also for language choice
16:18:27 <stefw> well that's implemented on the server
16:18:31 <stefw> so a cookie makes sense there
16:18:37 <stefw> and it does things like invalidate browser cache
16:18:45 <stefw> so we have to have Cookie: be set for language choice
16:18:56 <stefw> and then set a Vary: header so the browser cache does the right thing when switching between languages
16:18:58 <mvollmer> hmm, right.
16:19:33 <stefw> unfortunately that means that language files are not cached between login sessions, since a new login also changes the Cookie:
16:19:39 <stefw> but such is life
16:19:43 <stefw> anyway, back to the host switcher
16:19:51 <stefw> 1. remembering the preference is one aspect
16:19:57 <stefw> 2. access to dashboard without showing it
16:20:06 <stefw> either we need to do those things ^^
16:20:11 <stefw> or make the host switcher a popover
16:20:38 <stefw> although i will note that getting to the dashboard via a popover each time may become irritating
16:21:15 <andreasn> yeah, it's a bit of pro's and cons
16:21:45 <andreasn> but well, it's like one more click
16:22:01 <stefw> in which case?
16:22:12 <stefw> right now, it's one more click, that shows the host switcher, and keeps it shown
16:22:29 <andreasn> I mean that you can't have it expanded
16:22:29 <stefw> so it's one click that explicitly goes against what the user is trying to do
16:24:05 <andreasn> the case that some pages gets odd layouts is a separate bug
16:24:17 <stefw> andreasn, yes, and one that i probalby just need to do some patches for
16:24:31 <stefw> but at the core of the issue is that the host switcher is wasted space and not useful for the 1 server case
16:24:39 <andreasn> yes, certainly
16:24:49 <stefw> the dashboard is useful in the 1 server case
16:24:57 <andreasn> in a way, it might be a bit expensive also for 2-3 servers
16:25:01 <stefw> right
16:25:12 <andreasn> it's perfect when it's about 10 servers
16:25:56 <stefw> so how do we decide what to do next here?
16:26:09 <stefw> should we come up with proposals, and brainstorm in a github issue?
16:26:11 <stefw> i can file one
16:26:16 <andreasn> yes, that would be great
16:26:19 <stefw> ok
16:26:44 <andreasn> thanks for bringing these up
16:27:33 <andreasn> so, while we're on the subject of hosts, should we talk about the one that is about to merge?
16:27:39 <andreasn> or is that a separate topic maybe?
16:27:50 <stefw> i would like to add that to the agenda at some point
16:28:05 <stefw> * UI reviews and making sure we get it right before merging
16:28:31 <stefw> like perhaps we need a checklist or something?
16:28:38 <stefw> but we could talk about that separately
16:28:47 <andreasn> sure
16:29:15 <andreasn> #topic Trello for roadmap
16:30:20 <stefw> we have this trello board
16:30:20 <stefw> https://trello.com/b/mtBhMA1l/cockpit
16:30:34 <stefw> can we use it instead of our Roadmap wiki page, and link to it from there?
16:30:39 <andreasn> sure
16:30:42 <stefw> is there anything that would help Trello be more useful?
16:30:51 <stefw> it would be find to change it around until it is useful to us
16:31:06 <andreasn> I just need to remember to pay more attention to it
16:31:19 <andreasn> and change status where appropiate
16:31:41 <andreasn> but it's unnesesary to keep a duplicate of the roadmap
16:31:50 <andreasn> as they go out of sync and all
16:31:53 <stefw> yeah
16:32:21 <andreasn> anything else on that?
16:32:27 <stefw> ok, i guess i'll try and pull anything else over
16:32:34 <stefw> put the distant stuff on the roadmap into Backlog
16:32:34 <mvollmer> ok, sounds good.
16:32:42 <andreasn> deal
16:32:44 <stefw> i tihnk i've moved over most of the other stuff
16:33:27 <andreasn> #topic Report on channel metrics
16:33:46 <stefw> not that much to report
16:33:56 <stefw> i've been working on the components all week, trying to get that in shape
16:34:07 <stefw> but i'll start working on a channel for resource metrics again tomorrow
16:34:09 <stefw> this is for the graphs
16:34:19 <stefw> i have some basic code that works with PCP and i started implementing them
16:34:24 <stefw> but i don't have it to a state where it compiles yet
16:34:24 <andreasn> cool
16:35:19 <stefw> that's it for that
16:35:24 <andreasn> great
16:35:39 <andreasn> #topic Report on components
16:35:50 <stefw> the journal is now in a component
16:35:54 <andreasn> ooh
16:36:04 <stefw> so it's ready for a new contributor to implement the new journal look
16:36:13 <stefw> if we some of the design issues worked out
16:36:26 <stefw> https://trello.com/c/if88ORZv
16:36:35 <stefw> there are the beginnings of a docker component
16:36:43 <stefw> implementing the console stuff (ie: container terminal and/or logs)
16:36:58 <stefw> and i've done some work on the networking
16:37:01 <stefw> migrating the dbus code
16:37:02 <stefw> https://trello.com/c/1d4RRSUp
16:37:12 <stefw> there's a checklist at that link on what needs to be done to turn the networking page into a component
16:37:27 <andreasn> I'll take a look at the Journal design again, but if I recall correctly it looked quite good
16:37:37 <stefw> yes indeed, it's nice work
16:37:52 <stefw> i noted some issues in the github issue: https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/1378
16:39:08 <andreasn-mobile> good
16:40:39 <andreasn-mobile> (switched devices)
16:41:57 <andreasn-mobile> what was next on the agenda?
16:42:37 <mvollmer> fsys channels, I think.
16:42:41 <stefw> Status of FS channels
16:43:28 <mvollmer> #topic Status of FS channels
16:43:47 <mvollmer> ok, super review by stef, now ready for second round of review.
16:44:22 <mvollmer> i am pondering whether to implement a JS wrapper first before merging.
16:44:52 <stefw> mvollmer, should we prototype a JS wrapper in the dashboard code first?
16:45:02 <mvollmer> yes, we could.
16:45:12 <mvollmer> there is no hurry to merge fsread et al
16:45:32 <mvollmer> so let's first make another pull request for at least one client.
16:45:40 <stefw> sounds good
16:45:42 <stefw> yes ... i did have a situation in mind where we could hurry it along
16:45:52 <stefw> for some folks who wanted to embed cockpit
16:45:55 <stefw> but today they seemed less interested
16:45:56 <stefw> so no rush
16:46:01 <mvollmer> right, i see
16:46:44 <mvollmer> we could also make the docker page use it in favor of polling.
16:47:03 <stefw> indeed
16:47:19 <stefw> i could try to fit that in
16:47:21 <mvollmer> that would probably not need a wrapper
16:47:33 <stefw> i was working on docker stuff today, and man seeing the polling was really painful :S
16:47:44 <mvollmer> the wrapper I have in mind would abstract a JSON file and use all three channel payloads in concert
16:48:00 <mvollmer> docker doesn't need that
16:48:14 <mvollmer> but the dashboard
16:48:35 <stefw> mvollmer, i want to brain storm the actual storage format of the machines a bit
16:48:43 <mvollmer> yes
16:48:46 <stefw> and prep it for making it more of a public api
16:49:01 <stefw> it was something that lpol suggested
16:49:14 <stefw> not sure if we're completely ready for this, but worth brainstorming a bit to see
16:49:21 <mvollmer> so that other tools can easily add machines to a dashboard?
16:49:28 <stefw> yeah
16:49:31 <mvollmer> right
16:49:32 <stefw> whether via cockpit-bridge --add
16:49:38 <stefw> or just placing files
16:49:42 <stefw> which look a lot like Desktop files
16:49:43 <stefw> somewhere
16:49:47 <mvollmer> i see
16:49:55 <stefw> sorta like how you can add stuff to your gnome-shell applications display
16:49:59 <stefw> by putting Desktop files in the right place
16:50:03 <stefw> there's an analog here to our dashboard
16:50:10 <stefw> and that was hinted at by lpol
16:50:10 <mvollmer> yes
16:50:19 <mvollmer> good observaton
16:50:24 <stefw> also ...
16:50:43 <stefw> i would like to lock down cockpit-ws so it'll only load resources from hosts that are explicitly added
16:50:49 <stefw> to close down any reflection security vulnerabilities
16:51:04 <mvollmer> ok
16:51:09 <stefw> and so if that's the case, then people who are embedding may want to be able to trivially add/remove hosts on the fly in order to access a broader set of servers in a configuration management context.
16:51:15 <stefw> like i said this latter thing isn't a priority to me
16:51:30 <stefw> but worth considering while we're working on this
16:52:36 <mvollmer> right
16:52:41 <stefw> anyway, we can brainstorm this later
16:52:48 <mvollmer> yes
16:53:28 <mvollmer> (reminds me that we need to test directory watching)
16:54:12 <stefw> yes, for the docker no-poll case too
16:56:17 <mvollmer> ok,done?
16:56:44 <stefw> i think so yes
16:57:22 <andreasn> #topic multi dash sryli
16:57:27 <andreasn> err
16:57:56 <andreasn> #undi
16:58:02 <andreasn> #undo
16:58:02 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2151f410>
16:58:23 <andreasn> #topic multi dash styling
16:59:04 <mvollmer> the hovering and button centering?
16:59:07 <andreasn> I fixed the issues stef mentioned
16:59:18 <andreasn> so should be in good shape
16:59:27 <stefw> i did another round of review
16:59:31 <stefw> i think we're nearly there
16:59:36 <andreasn> cool
17:01:36 <andreasn> anything else?
17:01:48 <stefw> i think that's it
17:01:53 <andreasn> great
17:02:12 <mvollmer> roadmap update?
17:02:17 <andreasn> sure
17:02:24 <mvollmer> or is it now always up-to-date in trello?
17:02:30 <andreasn> #topic roadmap
17:02:33 <stefw> we should still do it
17:02:47 <stefw> i can make any changes pointed out
17:04:02 <mvollmer> I hve pointed "Multi-server dashboard makeover" to #1467
17:04:27 <mvollmer> andreasn, how' are the patternfly and website updates coming?
17:04:46 <mvollmer> they are still "backlog", right?
17:04:47 <stefw> added link to 'Storage Redesign'
17:04:53 <andreasn> still behind on those, yeah
17:05:40 <andreasn> but issues are filed for the website
17:05:54 <mvollmer> yep
17:06:13 <andreasn> hope to get to them this week
17:06:28 <mvollmer> ok, I just moved them to "next four month". :-)
17:06:39 <andreasn> oh
17:06:39 <mvollmer> doesn't make sense, don't know why I did that, actually...
17:06:57 <stefw> i've put everything from 'Later' into trello
17:08:05 <stefw> migrated ' 4 months'
17:08:50 <stefw> put a trello link
17:09:21 <mvollmer> ok
17:09:54 <andreasn> so are we going to use only trello from now on?
17:10:10 <andreasn> or part wiki page, part trello?
17:10:22 <stefw> k, i think everything is migrated
17:10:25 <stefw> i think only Trello
17:10:31 <andreasn> all right
17:10:32 <stefw> or did i misunderstand what we talked about above?
17:10:41 <stefw> but we can change Trello around if it's not useful to us
17:10:46 <andreasn> yeah
17:12:09 <mvollmer> i think the roadmap is more for others than for us
17:12:33 <andreasn> does trello have time estimates?
17:12:36 <mvollmer> but trello is more than the roadmap so that's cool.
17:13:53 <stefw> andreasn, yes, they can have due dates
17:13:54 <stefw> or flags
17:13:57 <stefw> labels
17:14:05 <andreasn> good
17:14:15 <stefw> but in general 'Backlog' is the stuff that's far out
17:14:19 <stefw> and the rest is in some stage of work
17:14:30 <stefw> whether research, design, coding, etc...
17:15:42 <andreasn> all right
17:17:18 <andreasn> anything else?
17:18:40 <stefw> sounds like that's it
17:18:49 <andreasn> great
17:18:53 <andreasn> thanks!
17:18:59 <mvollmer> yep
17:19:01 <andreasn> #endmeeting