20:01:45 #startmeeting infrastructure 20:01:45 Meeting started Thu Feb 24 20:01:45 2011 UTC. The chair is CodeBlock. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:01:45 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:01:46 or something 20:01:59 or not? 20:02:06 smooge: meeting? 20:02:22 CodeBlock: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 20:02:36 yeah, I think it's time... 20:02:38 meeting 20:02:44 chair me 20:02:58 #chair smooge CodeBlock 20:02:59 hi again 20:03:05 can you chair me 20:03:10 was it my command that started it? 20:03:12 #chair smooge 20:03:12 Current chairs: CodeBlock smooge 20:03:12 .addchair #fedora-admin freenode smooge 20:03:12 nirik: Chair added: smooge on (#fedora-admin, freenode). 20:03:17 I lagged out 20:03:20 ok hi 20:03:30 * skvidal is here 20:03:34 sorry for the delay.. my dog had to chase off someone from our front yard 20:03:39 #topic Roll Call 20:03:43 * nirik is around. 20:03:52 * averi is around for a bit 20:04:01 * CodeBlock here 20:04:05 barely, but here 20:04:06 * marchant here till 3:50 20:04:43 #topic Fedora 15 alpha tasks: 20:05:05 * nirik can get the tickets... 20:05:09 * sijis is around 20:05:15 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Fedora+15 20:06:26 the Fedora 15 Alpha ones are 2606, 2607, 2608, 2609, 2610 20:07:46 with the slip we should have lots of time for them. ;) 20:07:46 abadger1999: i don't suppose i can forcibly retire packages as part of a packaging guideline? 20:08:04 notting: what package? 20:08:13 dgilmore: upstart :) 20:08:42 notting: we should just retire that 20:08:54 notting: ill gladly do it 20:08:59 bah moving my mom from ER to room soon, so I'll be in and out as things happen 20:09:01 ok we have enough disk space 20:09:07 CodeBlock, ok see you later 20:09:12 umm 20:09:18 let's not retire it until f15 is out 20:09:26 just in case things go badly sideways 20:09:53 .ticket 2606 20:09:54 nirik: #2606 (Fedora15 Alpha Release Day ticket/milestone) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2606 20:09:57 .ticket 2607 20:09:58 nirik: #2607 (Fedora 15 Alpha new website) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2607 20:10:08 .ticket 2608 20:10:09 nirik: #2608 (Fedora 15 Alpha Verify mirror space) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2608 20:10:15 .ticket 2609 20:10:17 nirik: #2609 (Fedora 15 Alpha verify mirror permissions) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2609 20:10:20 .ticket 2610 20:10:21 nirik: #2610 (Fedora 15 Alpha setup mirrormanger redirects) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2610 20:10:45 sijis, ping 20:10:52 smooge: pong 20:10:53 what is the status of the website? 20:11:15 i just branched it. a couple of link updates and (on release day) one change. 20:11:22 skvidal: we really are past the point of no return now. 20:11:30 that's it. 20:11:42 how much disk space are we looking at? 20:11:42 skvidal: it woul take a lot of work to switch out 20:12:04 hi guys one conversation per meeting please :) 20:12:05 dgilmore: 20:12:08 smooge: right 20:12:42 sijis, the reason is we get close to filling the disk when docs get put on 20:12:59 25G /srv/pungi/15-Alpha.RC1/ 20:13:32 smooge: yeah, i don't believe disk usage will go up much this alpha release. 20:13:38 Ticket notification - infrastructure: Ticket #2608 (task closed): Fedora 15 Alpha Verify mirror space 20:13:52 the bigger jump would be GA because of the release banner images 20:14:12 i'm talking about 50mb though.. not gigs 20:15:28 sijis, I was looking at the last couple of releases docs have grown quite a bit. I just want to make sure we are able to accomodate docs, docs.old docs.reallyold etc 20:16:04 smooge: sure. i completely understand your concern. 20:16:13 isn't there a ticket to remove olddocs? 20:17:28 I thought so. if not I will open it afterwords.. which trac? 20:17:54 smooge: hmm. i'l look it up. i *think* infra 20:18:13 ok so .2606 we slip a week 20:18:20 so .2607 we look good 20:18:27 so .2608 we also look good 20:18:39 2609 we can't do until staging occurs 20:18:54 and 2610 I need to get with mdomsch when he is not triple booked 20:19:20 otherwise other than my lack of running this meeting as good as mmcgrath we are look on top of stuff 20:19:32 smooge: you're doing great 20:19:47 anything else on the release we need to vocer? 20:20:36 * nirik thinks it looks like we are in good shape on the release. 20:20:47 ok time to change topics 20:20:52 #topic Move to tx.net 20:21:01 whee now this was "fun" 20:21:11 F.U.N. 20:21:42 it's almost over though right? 20:21:50 ok to summarize... we have closed down submissions and logins to our tx server 20:21:54 yay! 20:22:01 ricky and nb have moved various things 20:22:26 and we have learned that some people dont like having their data moved without being told first 20:22:35 :) 20:23:04 ...its like a tow truck 20:23:07 I would like to thank spot and jsmith for dealing with the brunt of that 20:23:23 I owe them both large amount of antacids and xanax 20:23:36 * skvidal read that as anthrax 20:23:40 that too 20:23:41 and I thought "hmm, that's not nice" 20:23:44 :) 20:24:16 ricky nb either of you around? 20:24:25 or anyone else who has been on the firing line? 20:25:25 I think the grues got them 20:25:31 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Migration_to_transifex.net I think shows the current status. 20:25:53 I will make sure the next infrastructure leader has more flashlights to hand out to people 20:26:38 ok looks like people will need to do 10. and by people that would be me :) 20:27:12 ok next topic 20:27:16 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=milestone&keywords=~Meeting&order=priority 20:27:26 #topic List of things we need to get done 20:27:31 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=milestone&keywords=~Meeting&order=priority 20:29:13 always things to do. ;) 20:30:32 ok anyone have anything to say on these at the moment? 20:30:44 I think we need to add in the items of "Get S___ Done list 20:31:05 but I think we are pretty good at the moment. 20:31:15 I think there's only 1 thing left on cvs before it can be killed. 20:31:19 the translate.fp.o instability ticket could likely be closed soon :) 20:31:27 yes it could. 20:31:30 no, 2. 20:31:45 windowsautoenroll and coolkey it looks like. 20:32:00 there's a number of transifex tickets we can close soon. ;) 20:32:12 and we can look at asterisk tickets next 20:32:37 wow we seem to be losing people left and right today 20:32:45 i just got my sip setup too :| 20:33:21 * nirik sees freenode is playing fun split games again. 20:33:26 yeah 20:35:25 * dgilmore wants us to keep and extend asterisk 20:36:48 I think * has a lot of potential, but no one ever seems to use it for much, so it seems a waste without more use. 20:36:56 There are parts of me that say "that sounds great" but that requires a) resources and b) people to use it 20:37:05 * skvidal is back 20:37:17 what are we talkingabout? 20:37:19 asterisk? 20:37:22 yeah 20:37:22 yup 20:37:43 I understand that we have folks who have some attachment to it 20:37:51 but I don't think it benefits us to maintain it, badly. 20:37:54 skvidal: on https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2519 did you ever find out who owns windowsautoenroll or hear about where coolkey wants to go? 20:38:01 i think * has potential. i've always wondered if it was more internal advertising (if that makes sense) 20:38:11 and the last N times I've used it it has failed, badly to work reliably 20:38:20 is the board actually able to use it for their calls? 20:38:25 no 20:38:38 the last couple of attempts have been horrible 20:38:47 so no one has tried in over a year 20:38:50 nirik: I have not - though all of the stuff still on irc I think rcritten has pointers to the right folks 20:38:57 and the new version can't get into epel, due to speex issues last I looked. 20:39:07 and since we have not updated in all that time I don't know what can be done 20:39:09 we currently have 2 instances allocated to asterisk and neither of them is being used much 20:39:27 I would argue the following: we discontinue the service until we have someone who 20:39:29 nirik, was the speex because RH ships one already or license issues. 20:39:32 1. wants to work on it all the time 20:39:42 2. has the time to do 1. 20:39:47 nirik: epel6 has 1.8 20:39:49 3. is willing to show the use case for us 20:40:36 * nirik tries to recall where he read about that. looking. 20:41:07 sorry, it was epel5 getting the new version. I guess 6 is ok. 20:41:12 I think that we should keep it and work on ways to make it more compelling, tying into presence, and im 20:41:21 dgilmore: who is 'we'? 20:41:27 do we have volunteers who actually have time to work on it? 20:41:30 we as in infra and fedora 20:41:39 dgilmore: I know you like asterisk but you don't have any time for it 20:41:57 dgilmore: you're very busy as it is right now. 20:42:08 and I don't see anyone standing up to work on it 20:42:20 I'm sorry but asterisk feels exactly like wordpress or tx to me 20:42:29 its an important part of the events fad im trying to put together 20:42:30 except that we actually have people USING wordpress and tx 20:42:40 well, we could attempt to find people interested in it, but that runs the risk of them showing up, working on it for a while, then disappearing. 20:42:59 dgilmore: do you have any one onboard for the FAD? 20:43:09 dgilmore: do you have a time setup? 20:43:12 do you have a schedule of any kind? 20:43:18 ok I will say the following: 1) we aren't looking to short-timers on this 2) we are looking for long timers. 20:43:20 I'm not asking to be a dick 20:43:32 I'm asking to see if there is a real potential of this taking off 20:43:35 skvidal: im working on it 20:43:38 as opposed to just hopefulness 20:43:51 so we have 2 instances? why? 20:43:56 nirik: testing 20:43:57 I won't say we can't have an asterisk server. I just want a plan and people who will say "its mine" who aren't overcommitted right now 20:43:59 nirik: one is for testing 20:44:03 one staging/on prod? 20:44:04 ok. 20:44:07 smooge: +1 20:44:15 nirik: and neither of them are seeing any use 20:44:37 yeah, I set my phone to register to it, but aside from me testing it with echo test, I don't think I have ever used it. 20:45:05 you got further than me :). 20:45:40 well, I'd say we don't need to decide this now, do we? perhaps set a deadline... if no one is poking at it by X, retire services until they can be revived by some happy person later? 20:46:03 nirik: I'd be happy with picking a deadline, yes 20:46:10 how about tax day? 20:46:13 april 15th? 20:46:19 that's 1.5 months from now (more or less) 20:46:25 or do we want it further out? 20:46:57 when is release? 20:47:11 * nirik is fine with that. Interested folks could try and find some people to poke at it before then... preferably multiple people, so > chance of some of them maintaining things longer term. 20:47:31 they are both 5 right now? so a 6 upgrade + 1.8 would be needed? 20:47:40 I would like to say April 15th. It would allow people who want to do it right some time to get things togehter. 20:47:43 nirik: umm 20:47:57 nirik, one was Fedora 12 and the other was EL6beta 20:47:59 oh no. fedora boxes. whee 20:48:01 nirik: asterisk02 is el6 20:48:09 smooge: it's el6 final, now. 20:48:12 I'm pretty sure 20:48:13 I rebuilt asterisk02 last summer 20:48:34 it had been down for 2 months I think 20:48:37 yes it's el6 final 20:49:09 nirik: asterisk01 is fedora 12 20:49:09 it had been rawhide before then 20:49:25 sorry asterisk2 had been rawhide. 20:49:29 smooge: it's not anymore 20:49:31 so 20:49:33 we can 20:49:34 yeah, so nuking that or migrating that would be good sooner rather than later. 20:49:39 nirik: +1 20:49:55 Ok here is what I will do 20:50:01 1) Post about the plan 20:50:16 2) Get people who want to write a project plan, etc to do so 20:50:29 3) Nuke or rebuild as EL6. 20:50:41 asterisk02 can be dropped for the time being as it is just a target 20:50:54 does that sound workable? 20:51:07 +1 20:51:50 so you nuke or rebuild no matter what? or wait for a plan that requires it? ;) 20:52:06 * marchant leaves for the day 20:52:17 the epel6 stable * version is very similar to the one on asterisk1, so it might be easy to migrate it to rhel6. 20:52:25 but there is a much newer one in epel6 testing. 20:52:48 the one is epel6 testing is supported the one in stable isn't (iirc) 20:53:12 ok, but thats migrating from 1.6 -> 1.8, so might be more than just rebuilding... (I don't know off hand tho) 20:53:22 nirik, if there is no plan and no resources.. nuke. If there is a plan and resources rebuild 20:53:45 right, ok. Deadline of april? or later? 20:53:55 Mayday 20:54:27 ok 20:54:44 I'm fine with may1 20:54:46 * nirik doesn't care too much, just that it's a deadline and known and out there. 20:54:53 that's 2 months 20:54:55 if no deadline, it will just linger forever. 20:54:58 dgilmore: you okay with this? 20:55:02 nirik: agreed 20:55:18 * nirik hopes we do find people that have time/energy to make it work. 20:55:24 umm 20:55:28 may 2nd 20:55:28 it's a monday 20:55:34 may1 is a sunday 20:56:17 May 5th 20:56:33 may 10th is release day. 20:56:48 (well, or later if we slip). 20:56:50 It would be our meeting day and we should have an idea of who can do this. 20:57:12 which we will 20:57:20 and that's the DEADLINE 20:57:20 if things get done earlier 20:57:20 great 20:58:11 skvidal: i guess i have no choice 20:58:34 dgilmore: do you think this is unfair? 20:58:51 who poked at it in the past? jsmith and jcollie ? 20:59:06 nirik: yes - I would argue jsmith doesn't have the time ;) 20:59:09 nirik: jsmith, jcollie, me and jds2001 20:59:14 yes, I would agree. 20:59:49 perhaps jcollie could find the time (I haven't seen him around tho in a while) 21:00:45 He is working on packaging more than sysadmin I think currently 21:00:48 nirik: neither have I 21:01:10 in any case, the search is on. ;) 21:01:13 right 21:01:21 ok moving on from asterisk which I figure was going to be our painful one. 21:01:38 blogs 21:01:47 #topic Shutting down wordpress 21:02:00 I would like to say May 5th for this also. 21:03:03 * nirik nods. Need to notify everyone, help if anyone needs content exported, etc. 21:03:36 what is up with the wordpress-mu package? 21:03:37 do we have contact with wordpress.com? or just leaving it to people to find their own 21:03:42 it's gone. 21:03:59 wordpress-mu and wordpress merged into the new version of wordpress that can do multiuser 21:04:22 my impression was that users were on their own and we were 'suggesting' to go to wp.com 21:04:34 and i believe helping with migration/data export, if they needed it 21:04:51 How many blogs do we have currently? 21:05:16 i cna't recall offhand. my iinitial thought was < 1000 21:06:06 oh. i'm waaay off. 21:06:10 wasn't it in the 5-10 range? 21:06:14 99 blogs, 217 users 21:06:23 5-10 that had morethan 5 posts 21:06:28 ah okay. 21:07:45 i'll put a few numbers togehter and mail it out to infra@ 21:07:49 thanks 21:09:52 #topic Shutting down zarafa 21:10:16 was that going to get used for calendar? or ? 21:10:39 nirik, I have no idea.. it was used for email by some people and calender for others 21:11:53 yeah, I thought it was mostly for the calendar, but I could be wrong. 21:11:54 it was for calander 21:12:01 and email if a user chose to 21:12:30 initially it was for shared calandering and contacts 21:12:31 .ticket 1197 21:12:34 nirik: #1197 (Lets find a calendar server.) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1197 21:12:37 expanded to email 21:13:25 * nirik doesn't think hosting email is a good idea off hand... 21:13:54 lets just say the legal complications make me blanche 21:13:54 it sounds like the calendar stuff never got tested or feedback was never noted from it... 21:14:10 could we ask folks to do that and revisit? 21:15:22 ok I will take that one and put it to bed 21:15:49 if it works as a calendar server, great... but we should probibly not do email, IMHO 21:16:21 I can ask folks on the above ticket to test... 21:16:33 nirik: i think that sounds like a good idea 21:16:48 (on the not hosting email) 21:17:06 +1000 on not hosting email 21:17:13 mailing lists are hard enough :) 21:17:15 * skvidal got dropped from irc, again 21:17:18 what's the topic? 21:17:29 looking at the people who are on that ticket.. I am not sure who is still around except for mmcgrath 21:17:31 calendaring 21:17:35 skvidal: zarafa 21:17:56 how many points can I add against hosting email 21:17:57 speaking of whom. mmcgrath ping 21:18:01 can I add a million? 21:18:03 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/zarafa/ 21:18:06 if so - +1million against 21:18:14 can I add more? 21:18:15 skvidal: however many you'd like :) 21:18:29 +infinity 21:18:40 so, if it works as a calendar server, we should at least nuke the email part of it. 21:18:47 pong? 21:18:51 zarafa 21:18:56 mmcgrath: your thoughts on zarafa? 21:19:19 I was going to let it sit idle until the next guy decided. I didn't want to commit more to it and I didn't want to up and remove it. 21:19:29 having said that, if the general feeling is we should remove it, I'm certainly not going to fight it. 21:19:38 mmcgrath: can email be disabled on it? 21:19:41 ie, just contacts/calendar? 21:20:08 nirik: ehh, not really. I mean we can just not direct email to it and I think we can generally disable sending 21:20:30 but it doesn't have a config "don't show email stuff" ? 21:20:38 but zarafa is far less desirable as just a calendaring server, for example if I tried to setup a meeting and invite seth, it'll email seth, but that will never show up in his calendar 21:20:42 nope 21:21:21 ah, ok. 21:21:59 I know right now only 3 people are using it, myself, duffy and simo 21:22:10 it's not requring any ongoing maintenance at the moment 21:22:21 but that's not to say it would stay that way if we started using it more 21:22:46 and there is the question of updating it 21:22:48 sure. it's unclear if it meets calendaring needs or not. I guess I would say we should try and get more people to test it and see... 21:22:57 skvidal: should just be a yum update when updates come out 21:23:12 mmcgrath: no db? 21:23:26 i.e. having to worry about shema updates, etc 21:23:35 it sure would be spiffy to have a shared calendar. 21:23:39 jds2001: it does have a db but AFAIK it handles those changes if there are any 21:23:52 nirik: it would be, it's crazy how few options there are in FOSS though 21:23:57 sorry, few _good_ options 21:24:08 I know, that ticket is a sad long trail of tears. ;) 21:24:17 jds2001: its self schema updating 21:24:51 my main issue is that holding/storing email becomes a legal headache 21:25:06 smooge: not to mention the anti-spam headaches 21:25:16 so for email, there's no incoming going to it right? it's just sending out as user@fp.o ? 21:25:17 smooge: and privacy expectations. 21:25:30 nirik: no - there's incoming coming to it for 3 accounts, I believe 21:25:30 nirik: re: calendar, someone working on the Insight team is testing Drupal capabilities for this for a later phase: http://publictest09.fedoraproject.org/drupal 21:25:55 stickster: it can do ical export and stuffage? 21:25:57 no I think it recieves email also . 21:26:03 jds2001: I haven't looked at it myself yet 21:26:19 jds2001: But I'd be very surprised if we couldn't get a well-supported contrib module for that. 21:26:45 huh... so user@fedoraproject.org for those users goes there instead of the alias for them? 21:26:53 jds2001: http://publictest09.fedoraproject.org/drupal/calendar <-- ical link at bottom of calendar 21:26:57 nirik: yes 21:28:34 ok. 21:28:48 * nirik thinks we should poke at these things and revisit next week or something. 21:29:30 nirik: take a look at the postfix config 21:29:38 in relay_recipient_maps 21:29:40 on bastion 21:29:59 if you're in that map - you get allowed for local delivery of mail 21:30:04 ok 21:30:43 well good times good times. 21:31:00 I think that covers all the things on my get out of the way for the next guy 21:31:02 list 21:31:19 that and wiping out sysadmins 21:31:46 completely? or just pruning? 21:31:52 pruning 21:32:17 sijis: nope, we decided we didnt need sysadmins anymore :) 21:32:27 that functionality will be performed by robots :) 21:32:29 * nirik goes to relax on the beach. 21:32:45 * skvidal wonders what kind of drugs nirik is on 21:32:48 did we have a final list of people we were going to prune? 21:33:07 * jds2001 thought smooge sent that out 21:33:21 I thought I did 21:33:28 * nirik looks 21:33:38 jds2001: hey - life made easy :) 21:34:55 nirik, my first list was at http://smooge.fedorapeople.org/ 21:35:11 I have to remove people who are in sysadmin-cvs but don't sudo 21:35:52 cool. 21:36:12 smooge: ? 21:36:28 Ideally we should write up a SOP on this and do it every cycle too. 21:36:29 smooge: sysadmin-cvs doesnt give sudo 21:36:47 dgilmore, oh I thought it did 21:36:52 smooge: no 21:36:56 oh, it was sent to sysadmin-main on Feb 8 21:37:06 but i dont think its secret :) 21:37:06 smooge: its a group to give access to pkgs to run scm tags 21:37:16 tasks 21:37:26 there are people on that list that are still active in the project, but may no longer need sysadmin* access (since they haven't used it) 21:37:31 http://smooge.fedorapeople.org/sysaccounts-to-keep.txt 21:37:31 http://smooge.fedorapeople.org/sysaccounts-to-remove.txt 21:37:39 nirik: yep. 21:37:58 nirik: this isnt about saying you're n0ot active in the project 21:38:05 just reducing risk exposure, mainly 21:38:34 dgilmore, ok I see. but I still need to skip that for seeing who is/isnt to be removed 21:39:04 .members sysadmin-cvs 21:39:05 jds2001: Members of sysadmin-cvs: @ausil huzaifas jwboyer kevin @mmcgrath +notting petersen ricky tibbs toshio 21:39:39 not many 21:39:47 yep. Sounds fine to me. Should mail them all with a nice note saying "we still love you, if you still need access, come back and see us" and then remove them. 21:39:48 smooge: oso mostly tibbs and nirik do it i do some times but not often 21:41:03 dgilmore, so on that list (sysadmin-cvs) you, kevin, tibbs and ? 21:41:11 thats it 21:41:56 notting has done them sometimes... petersen sometimes (he's in apac timezones). 21:42:37 I would not worry too much about that group... just use the list... 21:42:37 in the last year? 21:42:42 none of them are on it are they? 21:43:22 nirik: not sure they have since the move to git 21:43:37 i know jens just moved from australia to japan 21:43:44 two of them: huzaifas and petersen 21:44:05 petersen and huzaifas .. oh too late 21:44:05 ive not seen huzifas lately 21:44:15 * nirik hasn't either. 21:44:18 I believe real life has gotten him 21:44:34 juhp_: is around from time to time... 21:44:58 well, we can always re-add folks. 21:45:13 nirik: once he has settled down to life in japan, we can try rope him back in 21:45:17 in fact this may cause a number of people to remember we are here and want to go back to contributing. 21:45:34 They're both around at night (here) I just don't know if they are using sysadmin access. 21:47:06 well my main item is cutting down the list of people who need it and use it. 21:48:37 * nirik nods. 21:49:08 ok I think I am about done here.. ok with me ending this 21:49:42 still in the meeting? 21:49:48 yep. 21:49:49