02:45:19 <nb> #startmeeting FAmNA Media Discussion 02:45:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 3 02:45:19 2010 UTC. The chair is nb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:45:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:45:21 <SushiDude> ahggg when are they going to update there website for f14 02:45:22 <nb> FranciscoD, there 02:45:30 <nb> #chair VileGent inode0 rrix 02:45:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: VileGent inode0 nb rrix 02:45:36 <nb> FranciscoD, now the bot will log for us 02:45:43 <SushiDude> cool 02:45:43 <FranciscoD> SushiDude: it's already updated mate, clear your cache and retry 02:45:49 <FranciscoD> getting back on the subject : 02:45:50 <SushiDude> FranciscoD: k 02:46:16 <VileGent> #meeting-name FAmNA Media Discussion 02:46:21 <FranciscoD> #idea obsolete CD images for a fedora multi spin showcase which has 4 spins of 1Gig each 02:46:37 <VileGent> FranciscoD, undo 02:46:52 <VileGent> obsolute livecd images 02:47:09 <FranciscoD> #idea obsolete Live CD images for a fedora multi spin showcase which has 4 spins of 1Gig each 02:47:22 <FranciscoD> VileGent: what 4 spins do we plan? GNOME, KDE, and .. ?.. ? 02:47:51 <VileGent> #idea or default + one other spin with both arches 02:48:17 * nb wonders what the cost would be for dual layer dvds 02:48:22 <nb> i think thats what emea is using 02:48:34 <FranciscoD> VileGent: why not 4 spins with 32bit? since it's more a showcase than install media? 02:48:37 <inode0> I think those are the only official media now aren't they? 02:48:39 <VileGent> as example default 32 bit, 64 bit, kde 32, 64 02:49:22 <SushiDude> The default, kde, lxde, xfce. 32 and 64 bit. 02:49:24 <VileGent> FranciscoD, give people who dont know their hardware to try 64bit to see if it work 02:49:33 <SushiDude> if we had dual sided 02:49:49 <VileGent> i am against the dualsided myself 02:49:53 <SushiDude> one side could be 32 the other 64 02:50:02 <SushiDude> VileGent: why? 02:50:06 <inode0> dual sided doesn't work very well, but dual layer is possible 02:50:13 <FranciscoD> how about combinations then? 02:50:29 <inode0> no one can tell which side is which, no labels are possible 02:50:29 <SushiDude> FranciscoD: ? 02:50:33 <FranciscoD> One DVD : GNOME KDE both arches (for folks who don't know their system) 02:50:36 <VileGent> there is not that many users with the actual hardware to be able to read or produce them at home 02:50:46 <inode0> 4GB on one side is better 02:50:55 <FranciscoD> another DVD : 4 spins : one arch only, for folks who do know their hardware 02:51:19 <VileGent> FranciscoD, and have to procedure and or the tool to do it 02:51:34 <nb> inode0 usually dualsided have a little label around the spindle 02:51:36 <FranciscoD> such users will want to, well, "see" as many spins as possible on 4 gig and won't really like having 2 arches whn they'll only use one 02:51:40 <VileGent> so anyone can reproduce or create their own 02:51:59 <inode0> nb: right, which is usually hard to read and confuses people anyway 02:52:01 <SushiDude> I want the default and KDE 64 and 32 bit 02:52:06 <nb> true 02:52:07 <VileGent> FranciscoD, but for shows and stuff we do it would be a win win 02:52:23 <FranciscoD> #idea tool to create this new media so anyone can reproduce it 02:52:40 <FranciscoD> #idea 1 -> default + KDE , 32 and 64 arches 02:52:41 <SushiDude> FranciscoD: +1 02:52:49 <VileGent> FranciscoD, http://fedorasolved.org/Members/Southern_Gentleman/testing-autopsys-script 02:52:53 <FranciscoD> #idea 2-> 4 spins, one arch only 02:53:00 * FranciscoD goes clicking 02:53:03 <inode0> I do think ambassadors producing another piece of media featuring spins is a fine idea to consider 02:53:12 <FranciscoD> #link http://fedorasolved.org/Members/Southern_Gentleman/testing-autopsys-script 02:53:31 <VileGent> FranciscoD, links are automatic 02:53:38 <FranciscoD> ah, okay 02:53:43 <SushiDude> well who is burning all of these dvds? 02:54:02 <VileGent> SushiDude, we pay for them to be done 02:54:13 <SushiDude> VileGent: by who? 02:54:28 <FranciscoD> SushiDude: us Ambassadors mate 02:54:40 <inode0> freemedia should be kept in mind too - those are paid for by contributors, I don't think they would object to this 02:54:58 <VileGent> FranciscoD, look at autopsy code you might be able to expand it to 4 02:54:59 <FranciscoD> VileGent: what are the internals of the procedure? The link you've given me is the tool? 02:55:02 <SushiDude> no, I mean who do we pay to burn them 02:55:06 <FranciscoD> VileGent: aye 02:55:07 <inode0> in fact, this enables freemedia to provide more to those requesting help 02:55:11 <FranciscoD> SushiDude: any pressing company 02:55:13 <FranciscoD> inode0: +1 02:55:13 <nb> SushiDude, a vendor that specializes in making dvds and cds 02:55:24 <nb> SushiDude, i do not remember the name of the specific company we have been using 02:55:27 <VileGent> SushiDude, look up the vendor on the vendor list 02:55:34 <SushiDude> VileGent: k 02:55:45 * FranciscoD reminds folks that the vendors list needs love 02:55:51 <FranciscoD> lots of love 02:56:22 <VileGent> yeah i need to add the balloon vender 02:56:32 <VileGent> vendor 02:56:35 <FranciscoD> what else then? what do we need to do to get this one rolling? 02:56:38 <FranciscoD> VileGent: ^ ? 02:56:54 * nb guesses we probably need board approval for ours like emea did? 02:56:54 <VileGent> to the vendor list 02:56:57 <nb> and maybe releng buyin? 02:57:14 <inode0> it will help to propose this as an F15 feature I think 02:57:18 <FranciscoD> images of 1Gig would be the starting point IMO 02:57:21 <FranciscoD> inode0: +1 02:57:24 <VileGent> get the tool or procedure down 02:57:31 <nb> inode0, tru 02:57:41 <FranciscoD> #idea propose as feature to f15 02:57:44 <VileGent> 1gb images 02:57:51 <nb> #chair FranciscoD 02:57:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD VileGent inode0 nb rrix 02:58:01 <FranciscoD> we also need a smooth transition path, since we'll be obsoleting liveCDs 02:58:08 <VileGent> why 02:58:21 <FranciscoD> VileGent: contingency plan? 02:58:26 <nb> not sure if i'll be around much longer tonight, but pretty much everyone else are chairs so someone can endmeeting when we are done 02:58:48 <SushiDude> brb 02:58:52 <VileGent> we do things as they are now 02:59:20 * nb wonders how many dvd readers can't read dual layer 02:59:23 <nb> if that would be feasible 02:59:23 <VileGent> nb not far behind you 02:59:24 <FranciscoD> nb: lots 02:59:30 <nb> FranciscoD, oh 02:59:44 <SushiDude> back 02:59:47 <inode0> almost all can read dual layer 03:00:03 <FranciscoD> inode0: really? I've seen many many systems that just fail on it 03:00:04 <inode0> movie DVDs are dual layer 03:00:20 <SushiDude> inode0: almost is not good. 03:00:30 <inode0> lots can't write them, few can't read them 03:00:38 <inode0> almost is good enough 03:00:54 <FranciscoD> what's the price on a dual layer? 03:00:59 <inode0> nothing will work for everyone 03:01:01 <VileGent> so we need this be reproducable by the community 03:01:16 <FranciscoD> +1 03:01:18 <VileGent> 90% of the time at least 03:01:59 <VileGent> so at this point i think we should aim at single layer dvds for now 03:02:04 <FranciscoD> if the procedure's simple enough, we can make single and dual dvd images, no biggie 03:02:32 <VileGent> aim smaller for now is my opinion 03:02:37 <FranciscoD> aye 03:02:55 <FranciscoD> lets keep dual as an added future feature, depending on how well this goes till f15 release? 03:03:09 <inode0> then you only get 2 on an image 03:03:17 <SushiDude> are blueray dvds open? 03:03:31 <VileGent> see how goes for f15 then possible feature 03:03:36 <VileGent> later 03:03:42 <FranciscoD> inode0: how about the two combinations I spewd earlier? 03:03:46 <SushiDude> blu-ray 03:03:54 <VileGent> SushiDude, i disagree 03:03:58 <SushiDude> we could put like 20 spins on them 03:04:01 <inode0> very few people have blu-ray players in the computers 03:04:08 <VileGent> not that people have bluray burners 03:04:14 <SushiDude> inode0: good point 03:04:44 <VileGent> same as i disagree with dual layered dvds at this point in time 03:04:52 <FranciscoD> how many spins do we have? really difficult to give someone all of them 03:05:02 <inode0> FranciscoD: I don't object but I don't think the project wants proliferation, I think one new image replacing the old live media has a better chance of making all the groups happy 03:06:05 <FranciscoD> hmm 03:06:24 <inode0> we need buy-in from lots of places 03:06:43 <FranciscoD> #idea < inode0> we need buy-in from lots of places 03:06:44 <FranciscoD> ;) 03:06:48 <VileGent> FranciscoD, burn one dvd and it covers the majority of computers and friends DE choice is a good thing 03:07:10 <inode0> we'll do some research on how pervasive dual layer readers are - I think they are everywhere 03:07:30 <VileGent> inode0, but not burners and that is a issue as well 03:07:46 <inode0> yeah, but if the readers aren't there it is dead 03:07:56 <rrix> Not if this image we create is mostly for us (like the EMEA image) 03:08:08 <VileGent> putting the iso on a 8gb usbkey isnt a big problem 03:08:14 <SushiDude> VileGent: burn one image on one side, then filp burn it on the other. 03:08:15 <FranciscoD> rrix: not a good idea to have media only for a specific region 03:08:22 <inode0> I think there are plenty of burners to be honest 03:08:28 <VileGent> SushiDude, wont work that way 03:08:28 <FranciscoD> it would be really good if this would be for the entire community 03:08:41 <rrix> FranciscoD: I'm not saying for a specific region. I'm saying for ... a specific group (to be produced by Fedora Ambassadors, for Fedora events and ambassadors) 03:08:50 <VileGent> FranciscoD, and i think the community will go for it 03:08:54 <rrix> the EMEA imge isn't on get.fp.o right now, is it? 03:09:02 <rrix> Nor on spins.fp.o 03:09:10 <FranciscoD> rrix: we aren't looking to do what they did, are we? 03:09:17 <rrix> FranciscoD: I'm asking if we should be 03:09:27 <FranciscoD> we're planning on revamping the entire live showcase thing 03:09:29 <inode0> rrix: even they wouldn't try to put it there yet, it is rough 03:09:53 <inode0> FranciscoD: so are they 03:09:58 <VileGent> ok battleaxe is saying bedtime 03:10:01 <VileGent> laters 03:10:03 <inode0> this really is about the same thing 03:10:05 <dramsey> laters 03:10:11 <rrix> bye VileGent 03:10:14 <dramsey> Thank you VileGent 03:10:15 <FranciscoD> bye folks 03:10:31 <dramsey> by FranciscoD 03:10:33 <FranciscoD> inode0: have they bought in anyone yet? 03:10:35 <dramsey> s/by/be 03:10:41 <FranciscoD> dramsey: gud bye :) 03:10:42 <dramsey> s/be/bye 03:10:45 <FranciscoD> heh 03:10:45 <dramsey> :D 03:10:51 <nb> I gtg to bed 03:11:03 <nb> someone please endmeeting this when we are over 03:11:08 <inode0> FranciscoD: they tried at the last minute to get it into F14 - met resistence but lots of people like the idea 03:11:22 <FranciscoD> ah, good. 03:11:28 <FranciscoD> to close to f14 release I 03:11:31 <FranciscoD> 'm gessing 03:11:40 <inode0> the only good argument against it goes like this 03:12:20 <inode0> it is the wrong way to make the presentation and one common underlying platform could offer various choices through package groups or something like that 03:12:38 <nb> . 03:12:49 <inode0> so there is one default thing - offering choices through a more integrated facility 03:12:56 <rrix> inode0: "but we're not going to do that so good fscking luck" is the second half of that. 03:13:28 <inode0> well, I don't know that 03:13:50 <FranciscoD> we'll need to have a chat with whoever is responsible before we can plan anything else 03:14:01 <inode0> mdomsch, who carries some weight in any discussion, seems to favor that approach 03:14:57 <rrix> which would be... what exactly? 03:15:03 <rrix> I'm not sure what that would entail 03:15:59 <inode0> I'm not either - you boot one piece of media and are presented with options rather than being presented with options and booting one of several images 03:16:11 <inode0> I think the board/fesco will likely make that decision 03:16:15 <rrix> So... 03:16:33 <rrix> Have everything installed as a single liveimage, and stick the options in GDM or something? 03:16:46 <inode0> let's not say GDM :) 03:16:51 <rrix> right 03:17:06 <rrix> but ... something between boot and desktop 03:17:11 <rrix> firstboot for all I care, but 03:17:13 <inode0> yeah 03:17:19 <rrix> hrm 03:17:47 * FranciscoD notices more work coming into it 03:17:48 <rrix> jaroslav reznik has been talking for a while about creating a "best of the best" fedora image like that 03:17:54 <rrix> one desktop, allthe best applications 03:18:00 <dramsey> +1 03:18:01 <rrix> gnome, kde, lxde whatever 03:18:17 <rrix> What about something like that? 03:18:29 <rrix> I say "fuck the 'default'", but I'm obviously biased in more than one way. 03:18:35 <FranciscoD> will have a limited target audience. Won't it pull in a lot of lib? 03:18:40 <FranciscoD> s/lib/libs/ 03:18:49 <FranciscoD> for each application belonging to a different DE ? 03:18:54 <rrix> FranciscoD: it has its own set of issues, yes. 03:19:22 <MarkDude> rrix, how about including Unity also? :D 03:19:32 <MarkDude> rofl 03:19:36 * rrix smacks MarkDude 03:19:37 <rrix> :p 03:19:40 <FranciscoD> i suggest we first look into issues before making any random decisions 03:19:45 <rrix> I said "best of the best" ;) 03:19:52 <rrix> FranciscoD: I'm not saying we make decisions. These are ideas. 03:19:57 <rrix> Rough, baby ideas. 03:20:21 <FranciscoD> rrix: with the amount of updates that system will get, it won't stay "best" any longer :P keeping in mind the new policy of trying to reduce them updates 03:20:30 * MarkDude missed that part, I thought you were focusing on contentious stuff 03:20:45 <rrix> FranciscoD: the Fubuntu Updates Policy? 03:20:59 <rrix> FranciscoD: But that's completely orthagonal 03:21:03 <FranciscoD> nope, the Fedora Updates policy 03:21:13 <rrix> Right, the Fubuntu updates policy 03:22:57 <FranciscoD> if there isn't anything else to add, I say we end the meeting here? 03:23:02 <SushiDude> no 03:23:25 <FranciscoD> SushiDude: no for ending the meeting, or for nothing else to add ? 03:23:37 <SushiDude> FranciscoD: end it 03:23:52 <FranciscoD> inode0: rrix : MarkDude : dramsey : end ? 03:23:54 <SushiDude> FranciscoD: you can end it now 03:23:55 * rrix nods 03:24:00 <rrix> #endmeeting