02:45:19 #startmeeting FAmNA Media Discussion 02:45:19 Meeting started Wed Nov 3 02:45:19 2010 UTC. The chair is nb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:45:19 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:45:21 ahggg when are they going to update there website for f14 02:45:22 FranciscoD, there 02:45:30 #chair VileGent inode0 rrix 02:45:30 Current chairs: VileGent inode0 nb rrix 02:45:36 FranciscoD, now the bot will log for us 02:45:43 cool 02:45:43 SushiDude: it's already updated mate, clear your cache and retry 02:45:49 getting back on the subject : 02:45:50 FranciscoD: k 02:46:16 #meeting-name FAmNA Media Discussion 02:46:21 #idea obsolete CD images for a fedora multi spin showcase which has 4 spins of 1Gig each 02:46:37 FranciscoD, undo 02:46:52 obsolute livecd images 02:47:09 #idea obsolete Live CD images for a fedora multi spin showcase which has 4 spins of 1Gig each 02:47:22 VileGent: what 4 spins do we plan? GNOME, KDE, and .. ?.. ? 02:47:51 #idea or default + one other spin with both arches 02:48:17 * nb wonders what the cost would be for dual layer dvds 02:48:22 i think thats what emea is using 02:48:34 VileGent: why not 4 spins with 32bit? since it's more a showcase than install media? 02:48:37 I think those are the only official media now aren't they? 02:48:39 as example default 32 bit, 64 bit, kde 32, 64 02:49:22 The default, kde, lxde, xfce. 32 and 64 bit. 02:49:24 FranciscoD, give people who dont know their hardware to try 64bit to see if it work 02:49:33 if we had dual sided 02:49:49 i am against the dualsided myself 02:49:53 one side could be 32 the other 64 02:50:02 VileGent: why? 02:50:06 dual sided doesn't work very well, but dual layer is possible 02:50:13 how about combinations then? 02:50:29 no one can tell which side is which, no labels are possible 02:50:29 FranciscoD: ? 02:50:33 One DVD : GNOME KDE both arches (for folks who don't know their system) 02:50:36 there is not that many users with the actual hardware to be able to read or produce them at home 02:50:46 4GB on one side is better 02:50:55 another DVD : 4 spins : one arch only, for folks who do know their hardware 02:51:19 FranciscoD, and have to procedure and or the tool to do it 02:51:34 inode0 usually dualsided have a little label around the spindle 02:51:36 such users will want to, well, "see" as many spins as possible on 4 gig and won't really like having 2 arches whn they'll only use one 02:51:40 so anyone can reproduce or create their own 02:51:59 nb: right, which is usually hard to read and confuses people anyway 02:52:01 I want the default and KDE 64 and 32 bit 02:52:06 true 02:52:07 FranciscoD, but for shows and stuff we do it would be a win win 02:52:23 #idea tool to create this new media so anyone can reproduce it 02:52:40 #idea 1 -> default + KDE , 32 and 64 arches 02:52:41 FranciscoD: +1 02:52:49 FranciscoD, http://fedorasolved.org/Members/Southern_Gentleman/testing-autopsys-script 02:52:53 #idea 2-> 4 spins, one arch only 02:53:00 * FranciscoD goes clicking 02:53:03 I do think ambassadors producing another piece of media featuring spins is a fine idea to consider 02:53:12 #link http://fedorasolved.org/Members/Southern_Gentleman/testing-autopsys-script 02:53:31 FranciscoD, links are automatic 02:53:38 ah, okay 02:53:43 well who is burning all of these dvds? 02:54:02 SushiDude, we pay for them to be done 02:54:13 VileGent: by who? 02:54:28 SushiDude: us Ambassadors mate 02:54:40 freemedia should be kept in mind too - those are paid for by contributors, I don't think they would object to this 02:54:58 FranciscoD, look at autopsy code you might be able to expand it to 4 02:54:59 VileGent: what are the internals of the procedure? The link you've given me is the tool? 02:55:02 no, I mean who do we pay to burn them 02:55:06 VileGent: aye 02:55:07 in fact, this enables freemedia to provide more to those requesting help 02:55:11 SushiDude: any pressing company 02:55:13 inode0: +1 02:55:13 SushiDude, a vendor that specializes in making dvds and cds 02:55:24 SushiDude, i do not remember the name of the specific company we have been using 02:55:27 SushiDude, look up the vendor on the vendor list 02:55:34 VileGent: k 02:55:45 * FranciscoD reminds folks that the vendors list needs love 02:55:51 lots of love 02:56:22 yeah i need to add the balloon vender 02:56:32 vendor 02:56:35 what else then? what do we need to do to get this one rolling? 02:56:38 VileGent: ^ ? 02:56:54 * nb guesses we probably need board approval for ours like emea did? 02:56:54 to the vendor list 02:56:57 and maybe releng buyin? 02:57:14 it will help to propose this as an F15 feature I think 02:57:18 images of 1Gig would be the starting point IMO 02:57:21 inode0: +1 02:57:24 get the tool or procedure down 02:57:31 inode0, tru 02:57:41 #idea propose as feature to f15 02:57:44 1gb images 02:57:51 #chair FranciscoD 02:57:51 Current chairs: FranciscoD VileGent inode0 nb rrix 02:58:01 we also need a smooth transition path, since we'll be obsoleting liveCDs 02:58:08 why 02:58:21 VileGent: contingency plan? 02:58:26 not sure if i'll be around much longer tonight, but pretty much everyone else are chairs so someone can endmeeting when we are done 02:58:48 brb 02:58:52 we do things as they are now 02:59:20 * nb wonders how many dvd readers can't read dual layer 02:59:23 if that would be feasible 02:59:23 nb not far behind you 02:59:24 nb: lots 02:59:30 FranciscoD, oh 02:59:44 back 02:59:47 almost all can read dual layer 03:00:03 inode0: really? I've seen many many systems that just fail on it 03:00:04 movie DVDs are dual layer 03:00:20 inode0: almost is not good. 03:00:30 lots can't write them, few can't read them 03:00:38 almost is good enough 03:00:54 what's the price on a dual layer? 03:00:59 nothing will work for everyone 03:01:01 so we need this be reproducable by the community 03:01:16 +1 03:01:18 90% of the time at least 03:01:59 so at this point i think we should aim at single layer dvds for now 03:02:04 if the procedure's simple enough, we can make single and dual dvd images, no biggie 03:02:32 aim smaller for now is my opinion 03:02:37 aye 03:02:55 lets keep dual as an added future feature, depending on how well this goes till f15 release? 03:03:09 then you only get 2 on an image 03:03:17 are blueray dvds open? 03:03:31 see how goes for f15 then possible feature 03:03:36 later 03:03:42 inode0: how about the two combinations I spewd earlier? 03:03:46 blu-ray 03:03:54 SushiDude, i disagree 03:03:58 we could put like 20 spins on them 03:04:01 very few people have blu-ray players in the computers 03:04:08 not that people have bluray burners 03:04:14 inode0: good point 03:04:44 same as i disagree with dual layered dvds at this point in time 03:04:52 how many spins do we have? really difficult to give someone all of them 03:05:02 FranciscoD: I don't object but I don't think the project wants proliferation, I think one new image replacing the old live media has a better chance of making all the groups happy 03:06:05 hmm 03:06:24 we need buy-in from lots of places 03:06:43 #idea < inode0> we need buy-in from lots of places 03:06:44 ;) 03:06:48 FranciscoD, burn one dvd and it covers the majority of computers and friends DE choice is a good thing 03:07:10 we'll do some research on how pervasive dual layer readers are - I think they are everywhere 03:07:30 inode0, but not burners and that is a issue as well 03:07:46 yeah, but if the readers aren't there it is dead 03:07:56 Not if this image we create is mostly for us (like the EMEA image) 03:08:08 putting the iso on a 8gb usbkey isnt a big problem 03:08:14 VileGent: burn one image on one side, then filp burn it on the other. 03:08:15 rrix: not a good idea to have media only for a specific region 03:08:22 I think there are plenty of burners to be honest 03:08:28 SushiDude, wont work that way 03:08:28 it would be really good if this would be for the entire community 03:08:41 FranciscoD: I'm not saying for a specific region. I'm saying for ... a specific group (to be produced by Fedora Ambassadors, for Fedora events and ambassadors) 03:08:50 FranciscoD, and i think the community will go for it 03:08:54 the EMEA imge isn't on get.fp.o right now, is it? 03:09:02 Nor on spins.fp.o 03:09:10 rrix: we aren't looking to do what they did, are we? 03:09:17 FranciscoD: I'm asking if we should be 03:09:27 we're planning on revamping the entire live showcase thing 03:09:29 rrix: even they wouldn't try to put it there yet, it is rough 03:09:53 FranciscoD: so are they 03:09:58 ok battleaxe is saying bedtime 03:10:01 laters 03:10:03 this really is about the same thing 03:10:05 laters 03:10:11 bye VileGent 03:10:14 Thank you VileGent 03:10:15 bye folks 03:10:31 by FranciscoD 03:10:33 inode0: have they bought in anyone yet? 03:10:35 s/by/be 03:10:41 dramsey: gud bye :) 03:10:42 s/be/bye 03:10:45 heh 03:10:45 :D 03:10:51 I gtg to bed 03:11:03 someone please endmeeting this when we are over 03:11:08 FranciscoD: they tried at the last minute to get it into F14 - met resistence but lots of people like the idea 03:11:22 ah, good. 03:11:28 to close to f14 release I 03:11:31 'm gessing 03:11:40 the only good argument against it goes like this 03:12:20 it is the wrong way to make the presentation and one common underlying platform could offer various choices through package groups or something like that 03:12:38 . 03:12:49 so there is one default thing - offering choices through a more integrated facility 03:12:56 inode0: "but we're not going to do that so good fscking luck" is the second half of that. 03:13:28 well, I don't know that 03:13:50 we'll need to have a chat with whoever is responsible before we can plan anything else 03:14:01 mdomsch, who carries some weight in any discussion, seems to favor that approach 03:14:57 which would be... what exactly? 03:15:03 I'm not sure what that would entail 03:15:59 I'm not either - you boot one piece of media and are presented with options rather than being presented with options and booting one of several images 03:16:11 I think the board/fesco will likely make that decision 03:16:15 So... 03:16:33 Have everything installed as a single liveimage, and stick the options in GDM or something? 03:16:46 let's not say GDM :) 03:16:51 right 03:17:06 but ... something between boot and desktop 03:17:11 firstboot for all I care, but 03:17:13 yeah 03:17:19 hrm 03:17:47 * FranciscoD notices more work coming into it 03:17:48 jaroslav reznik has been talking for a while about creating a "best of the best" fedora image like that 03:17:54 one desktop, allthe best applications 03:18:00 +1 03:18:01 gnome, kde, lxde whatever 03:18:17 What about something like that? 03:18:29 I say "fuck the 'default'", but I'm obviously biased in more than one way. 03:18:35 will have a limited target audience. Won't it pull in a lot of lib? 03:18:40 s/lib/libs/ 03:18:49 for each application belonging to a different DE ? 03:18:54 FranciscoD: it has its own set of issues, yes. 03:19:22 rrix, how about including Unity also? :D 03:19:32 rofl 03:19:36 * rrix smacks MarkDude 03:19:37 :p 03:19:40 i suggest we first look into issues before making any random decisions 03:19:45 I said "best of the best" ;) 03:19:52 FranciscoD: I'm not saying we make decisions. These are ideas. 03:19:57 Rough, baby ideas. 03:20:21 rrix: with the amount of updates that system will get, it won't stay "best" any longer :P keeping in mind the new policy of trying to reduce them updates 03:20:30 * MarkDude missed that part, I thought you were focusing on contentious stuff 03:20:45 FranciscoD: the Fubuntu Updates Policy? 03:20:59 FranciscoD: But that's completely orthagonal 03:21:03 nope, the Fedora Updates policy 03:21:13 Right, the Fubuntu updates policy 03:22:57 if there isn't anything else to add, I say we end the meeting here? 03:23:02 no 03:23:25 SushiDude: no for ending the meeting, or for nothing else to add ? 03:23:37 FranciscoD: end it 03:23:52 inode0: rrix : MarkDude : dramsey : end ? 03:23:54 FranciscoD: you can end it now 03:23:55 * rrix nods 03:24:00 #endmeeting