17:00:57 #startmeeting F25-blocker-review 17:00:57 Meeting started Mon Nov 14 17:00:57 2016 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:57 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:57 The meeting name has been set to 'f25-blocker-review' 17:00:57 #meetingname F25-blocker-review 17:00:57 The meeting name has been set to 'f25-blocker-review' 17:00:57 #topic Roll Call 17:01:04 ahoyhoy folks, who's around? 17:01:11 * satellit listening 17:01:18 * jkurik is here for approx. one hour 17:01:28 admin note: i may not be here the whole time (or may be on cell sometimes), coremodule will take over if i disappear 17:01:35 #chair coremodule 17:01:35 Current chairs: adamw coremodule 17:01:46 * coremodule is here. 17:01:50 * kparal is here 17:01:51 .hello jkurik 17:01:51 jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' 17:02:14 * pschindl is here 17:02:23 #chair kparal pschindl jkurik 17:02:23 Current chairs: adamw coremodule jkurik kparal pschindl 17:03:14 * garretraziel is lurking around 17:05:02 for the record, that's really me. 17:05:17 #topic Introduction 17:05:17 Why are we here? 17:05:17 #info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs. 17:05:17 #info We'll be following the process outlined at: 17:05:19 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting 17:05:19 #info The bugs up for review today are available at: 17:05:22 #link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current 17:05:23 #info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at: 17:05:25 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_25_Alpha_Release_Criteria 17:05:27 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_25_Beta_Release_Criteria 17:05:31 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_25_Final_Release_Criteria 17:05:37 we have: 17:05:38 #info 3 Proposed Blockers 17:05:38 #info 6 Accepted Blockers 17:05:44 #info 4 Proposed Freeze Exceptions 17:05:44 #info 15 Accepted Freeze Exceptions 17:06:07 coremodule, you ok to secretary? 17:06:17 adamw, Sure, put me down. 17:06:33 #info coremodule will secretarialize 17:06:42 #topic (1394026) SAS address parsing issue 17:06:42 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1394026 17:06:42 #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW 17:06:57 so in theory this is a blocker, but we've never had the hw to test sas and have always kinda treated that as a running joke 17:07:04 turns out, when someone does have the hardware, it's broken! what a surprise 17:07:27 since this is a live issue and not a joke any more, i propose we tweak the criterion to cover commonly-used local storage and don't include sas in that list 17:08:33 isn't SAS pretty common, though? 17:08:39 I'd like to get rid of SAS criterion as well, but it's just a bit inconsistent with Mac decision last week 17:08:46 no-one ever fills out the test for it, and this is the first bug i've seen 17:08:55 we have the hardware to test it 17:09:10 kparal: well, we've adjsuted criteria at the last minute before, and this one *is* kinda different because at *every* go/no-go we say, like 'oh, SAS isn't covered, har har!' 17:09:15 we do? 17:09:17 I'm 90% certain that we have the hw to test this 17:09:19 then why doesn't anyone ever do it? 17:09:38 we don't have it in Brno office 17:09:43 dell gave 2 servers to make sure that fedora installed well on them 17:10:05 tflink: do you know where these two are located ? 17:10:15 PHX2 17:10:23 the practical scenario i'm worried about here is, sure we have a fix for the *first* bug the guy ran into 17:10:33 if no-one's tested this stuff for years, chances he runs into *another* bug are high 17:11:01 I'm more questioning the approach of changing criteria instead of just hand-waving 17:11:17 how do we handwave? 17:11:28 how can you call SAS not common? 17:11:31 * adamw going mobile, coremodule can you take over boilerplate stuff? i can't do it well on android 17:11:49 tflink: see above. we never file test results for it, this is the first time i've seen someone show up in irc / bugzilla with it. 17:11:56 in enterprise rhel use, sure? in fedora, apparently not. 17:12:11 adamw, Got it! 17:12:57 saying "we don't really support SAS" seems to be at odds with having a server product 17:13:19 note that I'm not arguing that we should slip now to fix it 17:13:29 tflink: You're not wrong, but we also don't have access to hardware against which to test. 17:13:47 sgallagh: we have 2 servers in PHX2 that were donated to test with 17:14:15 tflink: This is news to me 17:14:26 Also users with SAS surely could use updates.img so let's put it to common bugs. 17:14:50 So we have to use out of band to test installs? 17:14:53 And if we have hardware we can try to test updates. 17:15:38 adamw, Are you still +1 blocker on this one? 17:15:49 just to repeat myself to make it more clear - I'm not arguing that we slip F25 for this bug - there has been a severe lack of testing and it's not like it was caught early. that being said, we do have some hardware to test this in the future and I'd prefer to see us take advantage of that in the future instead of writing SAS out of the criteria 17:16:47 so let's vote on waiving this bug instead of dumping the criteria 17:17:02 tflink, How can we access the hardware so that we can test with it? 17:17:20 I've questioned SAS in the criteria several times, and keep forgetting that it's tested virtually which as it turns out may have been meaningless - kinda weird but I have no idea if this is a one off failure of hardware and thus a conditional case or if it's all baremetal SAS that's busted. 17:17:21 How do we say this isn't a blocker without adjusting the criteria? 17:17:22 coremodule: beaker. which explains why it isn't widely used yet 17:17:45 How do we reject this without adjusting criteria? 17:18:12 is it hardware specific or all SAS? 17:18:18 tflink, Gotcha... 17:18:39 If it's all SAS, why isn't the qemu sas driver affected? 17:19:32 IF it's all hardware SAS, then +1 blocker on the basis there is a criterion for it. If it's this particular SAS hardware, and not all SAS hardware, then I'd say not a blocker because it's hardware specific. 17:20:36 I don't know if we can say that for sure 17:21:41 I can do a baremetal install on one of the donated boxes in beaker. if I hit the same bug, we assume that it's all SAS, if I don't, assume it's hardware-specific 17:21:47 I am gonna bet two bunnies that adamw is getting annoyed with his wireless connection :P 17:21:56 So does anyone actually think we should block f25 release on this? 17:22:00 tflink: seems reasonable to me 17:22:12 no, that seems silly 17:22:14 Or are we just arguing about how not to? 17:22:15 No, but there is a criterion. 17:22:32 tflink: when you can do the test ? 17:22:52 I just don't think we have a precedent for 'waiving' a blocker 17:22:55 It's like we're testing our criterion resolve at the last minute every release. It's an interesting way to cull the criteria list. 17:22:57 I'm starting it now - is a default install of server good enough? 17:23:12 yes 17:23:31 so beaker somehow lets you do a baremetal install? 17:23:36 remotely? 17:23:44 Cmurf: I really should've adjusted this before instead of making it a joke, sorry. 17:24:07 Yes. That's what beaker is for, kinda. 17:24:16 that's neato 17:25:14 So, I still think we should amend the criterion. But whatever approach the majority wants is fine. 17:25:24 While there's no precedent, there are at least two prior discussions about dropping this portion of the criterion. Wait, is it really explicitly part of the criterion? Or is it just a test case? 17:25:25 Votes? 17:25:41 * cmurf waits for tflink's beaker test results 17:26:19 The criterion doesn't explicitly say 'SAS'. It says 'all supported local storage interfaces' or something like that. 17:26:27 IF the results suggest all SAS is affected, we still want to hand pass this ball in the defensive zone and see if the ref blows the whistle? 17:26:48 Major foul, localized metaphor 17:27:03 hockey is hardly localized 17:27:17 s/ball/puck 17:27:21 no, but I'm still wondering what you actually meant by that 17:27:23 Heh 17:28:05 ehh not the best metaphor... 17:28:19 if we change the criterion to mean something equivalent to "the storage interfaces that have regular test results submitted", I'm not going to argue with that 17:28:27 we can't find what isn't being tested 17:29:13 well more importantly, it's come up in prior discussions if this should be dropped and we sorta joked about it 17:29:16 Okay. How about we say we'll amend the criteria somehow and leave it at that? 17:29:32 and in retrospect we were committed to dropping SAS in mind, just not on paper 17:29:41 Since everyone seems to agree we shouldn't actually block 17:30:15 yeah I'm still curious about the beaker result though 17:30:29 adamwagain: sounds good, we can fine tune the details later 17:30:36 let's not block the meeting 17:30:53 * tflink is still trying to verify which compose is RC 1.2 17:30:58 Coremodule: can you propose? 17:31:03 sure, we've consumed 1/2 of jkurik's time on one bug 17:31:20 tflink: http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/25_RC-1.2/ 17:31:22 Tflink: the one linked on the validation p a ges 17:31:31 adamw, yeh 17:31:31 cmurf: :) 17:31:39 adamwagain: there's a link from the validation pages? 17:32:04 Yeah. At the top. A bunch of then 17:32:09 links to stage 17:32:12 proposed #agreed 1394026 - RejectedBlocker - We have decided to amend the SAS criteria to avoid blocking on this issue as it seems to be an uncommonly used testcase that doesn't get a lot of validiation testing. We will fine tune the criteria later. 17:32:12 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_25_RC_1.2_Installation#How_to_test 17:32:31 ack 17:32:41 Patch: local storage criterion, not sas 17:32:43 * tflink has had his head in automation for too long, apparently 17:33:04 proposed #agreed 1394026 - RejectedBlocker - We have decided to amend the local storage criteria to avoid blocking on this issue as it seems to be an uncommonly used testcase that doesn't get a lot of validiation testing. We will fine tune the criteria later. 17:33:11 Ack 17:33:15 ack 17:33:21 ack 17:33:22 ack 17:33:24 ack 17:33:33 #agreed 1394026 - RejectedBlocker - We have decided to amend the local storage criteria to avoid blocking on this issue as it seems to be an uncommonly used testcase that doesn't get a lot of validiation testing. We will fine tune the criteria later. 17:34:09 #topic (1365435) Regression: SELinux prevents systemd from setting rlimits and breaks core dumping 17:34:09 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1365435 17:34:09 #info Proposed Blocker, selinux-policy-targeted, ASSIGNED 17:34:10 Next bug! 17:34:17 -1 blocker 17:34:18 -1. 17:34:29 -1 FE 17:34:39 fix it after release 17:35:36 -1 to block 17:35:45 -1 17:36:11 -1 17:37:12 proposed #agreed 1365435 - RejectedBlocker - The decision was made to classify this bug as a RejectedBlocker as we don't see the impact of this as being critical to system function and this can be fixed with an update at a later time. 17:37:27 Ack 17:37:38 ack 17:37:46 ack 17:37:51 #agreed 1365435 - RejectedBlocker - The decision was made to classify this bug as a RejectedBlocker as we don't see the impact of this as being critical to system function and this can be fixed with an update at a later time. 17:38:01 #topic (1170765) systemd: all processes in scopes (including user sessions) SIGKILLed immediately on shutdown with no opportunity to shut down cleanly 17:38:01 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1170765 17:38:01 #info Proposed Blocker, systemd, ASSIGNED 17:38:25 So here's the fun one! 17:38:28 I am running a test on this one right now, standby for the results... 17:38:31 -1 blocker 17:38:42 I don't like this bug. I get hit with it often. 17:39:04 I got this bug as well. 17:39:10 But it seems like it should be on jkurik and mattdm's future priority project pile 17:39:17 Basically this seems to be back, lately. Processes killed on logout / shutdown. 17:39:28 Well, we blocked 23 on it. 17:39:35 Now maybe if systemd in FEdora 26 gets the KillUserProcess=yes enabled, and it starts to nerf the files of applications... 17:39:45 that'd be worthy of the data corruption criterion 17:39:48 Can someone ping zbyszek? 17:40:01 He should be in #systemd 17:40:12 Huh no kidding we blocked F23 on it... 17:40:52 And do we have any non-qa folks for perspective? 17:41:35 Since this is big and messy... 17:41:40 * soas-0bb9 f25 soas USB boots 17:42:20 I'm seeing it on the latest F25 workstation. 17:43:39 I saw apps reported as crashed (being killed) on a next login, but very rarely. not sure what triggers it 17:43:44 * satellit I see this in ff in f25 but restore is offered for open tabs 17:44:22 I can't actually remember how often it happens to me 17:44:37 It happens to me every time I boot. 17:44:47 it used to be very frequent early in F25 cycle but now I don't see it anymore 17:45:02 Definitely happened on logout last week 17:46:06 Really be nice to have systemd dev input 17:46:47 we should start a new bug about this, really. the existing one is too long and this might be a different cause completely 17:47:56 have some logs appended 17:48:12 True, I was being a bit lazy 17:48:35 Could we reconvene later in the week after we get a systemd dev's input? 17:49:33 I really want to do the compose today if possible... But we can always compose with what we have and decide about this later I guess 17:49:51 maybe also ask on list how often this happens to people 17:50:07 i'm willing to bet it's often 17:50:15 but, what's being nerfed? 17:50:24 kparal, Yeah, good point. It seems to happen to me intermittently, so that would be a good metric to have. 17:50:59 because to me everything seems fine at the moment, so it would be nice to know if it is really a frequent problem or not 17:51:17 * satellit block shutdown until all apps are closed (possible fix?) 17:51:27 Cmurf: well, the logic last time was that really anything could get nerfed if it was expecting to be able to shut down cleanly 17:52:33 I'm OK with punting for more info/input here 17:52:54 proposed #agreed 1170765 - punt (delay decision) - We have decided to delay the classification of this as a bug as we are unsure of how often it happens and would also like to get a systemd developers input on this one. We are also considering some ideas for a possible fix. 17:53:09 ack 17:53:11 ack 17:53:14 ack 17:53:15 Ack 17:53:15 ack 17:53:25 #agreed 1170765 - punt (delay decision) - We have decided to delay the classification of this as a bug as we are unsure of how often it happens and would also like to get a systemd developer's input on this one. We are also considering some ideas for a possible fix. 17:53:45 post ack 17:53:59 #info Moving on to Proposed FE's... 17:54:30 #topic (1379106) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'format' 17:54:30 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1379106 17:54:31 #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, POST 17:55:11 Thought this was approved? +1 as it's a safe fix 17:56:33 for me this should be +1 FE 17:56:53 I'm +1. 17:57:26 Any more votes? 17:58:00 too long, +1 I guess 17:58:05 proposed #agreed 1379106 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as it is a safe fix that has been tested and proven to work without affecting the rest of the system. 17:58:17 Ack 17:58:19 ack 17:58:32 ack 17:58:34 #agreed 1379106 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as it is a safe fix that has been tested and proven to work without affecting the rest of the system. 17:58:43 #topic (1393945) syslinux-splash.png and syslinux-vesa-splash.png are in the wrong directory 17:58:44 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1393945 17:58:44 #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, generic-logos, MODIFIED 17:59:01 Only affects generic, then sure. 17:59:06 +1 FE 17:59:21 +1 FE 17:59:34 We have sgallagh s vote in bug, so... 17:59:36 +1 17:59:49 +1FE 18:00:20 +1fe 18:00:34 proposed #agreed 1393945 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as it is a simple fix that only affects the generic-logos. 18:00:48 Ack 18:00:54 ack 18:01:28 ack 18:01:30 #agreed 1393945 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as it is a simple fix that only affects the generic-logos. 18:01:39 #topic (1392885) External display doesn't disconnect after undocking with kernel 4.8.6 18:01:39 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1392885 18:01:39 #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, kernel, ON_QA 18:02:09 I'm a bit worried of updating kernel again at the last moment 18:02:11 thought we're committed to 4.8.6 18:02:22 people probably don't undock when running Live 18:02:38 on the other hand, it would be nice to have this working after a default installation, for reviews 18:03:13 Yeah, I'm kinda unsure here 18:03:20 well there's not much 4.8.7 testing it's pretty new 18:03:27 I'd rather say -1 18:03:36 There are a lot of people with affected systems, but the ootb impact isn't huge 18:03:38 unless we slip again 18:03:42 what's kernel team say? 18:03:50 Yeah, definitely document it though 18:04:47 We *could* do the two compose thing I guess 18:05:13 One with 4.8.6 one with 4.8.7... Not sure if it's worth that though 18:05:33 adamwagain: so with that SAS thing rejected it leaves just the 1393945 FE for the Anaconda build, right ? 18:05:34 * kparal doesn't really want to do twice as much testing 18:06:10 well the kernel change log for 4.8.7 looks like it should just fix stuff 18:06:13 Mkolman: we could take the SAS fix as an fe, since it's very isolated 18:06:25 Let's vote on that in a sec 18:06:45 adamwagain: OK 18:06:54 Okay, let's be strict here, -1 for me (on kernel bug) 18:07:09 -1 too 18:07:25 proposed #agreed 1392885 - RejectedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as a RejectedFreezeException as the fix would involve a kernel change and at this point in the release cycle of F25, we don't think that fixing this bug is worth the potential damage that could be caused by said kernel change. 18:07:34 ack 18:07:42 Ack 18:07:49 ack 18:07:51 ack 18:07:56 #agreed 1392885 - RejectedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as a RejectedFreezeException as the fix would involve a kernel change and at this point in the release cycle of F25, we don't think that fixing this bug is worth the potential damage that could be caused by said kernel change. 18:08:06 Do we want to vote on the SAS bug as an FE? 18:08:15 Before we move on to the last Proposed FE? 18:08:36 sure, why not 18:08:48 Sure 18:08:52 Sure 18:09:05 #info We're going to vote on the SAS bug as an FE. 18:09:07 depending on the fix, all the iscsi stuff should be retested if it's accepted FE 18:09:07 #topic (1394026) SAS address parsing issue 18:09:07 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1394026 18:09:08 #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW 18:09:27 So the fix is in a codepath we only hit when dealing with sas 18:09:35 +1 18:09:37 Therefore I'm fine with +1 fe 18:09:57 if something breaks, adamw fully tests the new compose on his own 18:10:22 ok sure +1 fe 18:10:27 Yak farm 18:10:45 proposed #agreed 1394026 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as the fix involves a codepath that is only touched when dealing with SAS so at worst this bug would remain unfixed, at best we would have a working SAS-install ability. 18:10:46 yak farm in new zealand 18:10:53 Ack 18:10:53 destination matters 18:10:55 ack 18:10:57 ack 18:10:57 ack 18:11:00 With no network connection 18:11:11 #agreed 1394026 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as the fix involves a codepath that is only touched when dealing with SAS so at worst this bug would remain unfixed, at best we would have a working SAS-install ability. 18:11:15 for sure no internet ever, done with that 18:11:23 #info Moving on to the final proposed FE... 18:11:32 #topic (1394449) f25 plasma "networks" and "instant messaging" icons are invisible. 18:11:32 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1394449 18:11:32 #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, plasma-desktop, NEW 18:11:50 look at the screenshot in bug 18:11:57 ok? 18:12:10 might be even a blocker 18:12:36 since it's missing i'm not sure what i'm supposed to see 18:12:41 fix is change theme 18:12:50 look at attchment 18:12:54 I don't see a patch here, so I'm not sure voting about FE is even worth it. but +1 in general 18:13:03 +1 FE 18:13:06 -1 blocker 18:13:31 + FE 18:13:31 cmurf: you see a white space :) 18:13:53 +1 FE 18:14:05 affects live on wireless only boot 18:14:10 I guess +1 18:14:21 proposed #agreed 1394449 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as this would be nice to fix for the final release. Note that changing the theme of the system will correct the error, in case this isn't fixed in time. 18:14:57 ack 18:15:01 ack 18:15:07 Ack 18:15:14 ack 18:15:30 #agreed 1394449 - AcceptedFreezeException - The decision was made to classify this bug as an AcceptedFreezeException as this would be nice to fix for the final release. Note that changing the theme of the system will correct the error, in case this isn't fixed in time. 18:15:53 Shall we call it for today, or do we want to reflect on the bugs we have? 18:16:35 the baremetal install for RC1.2 went fine 18:16:43 I'm OK with calling it 18:16:44 don't know if that's something we want to deal with now or later 18:16:50 Tflink: interesting 18:16:56 Let's follow up in bug 18:17:07 #topic Open Floor 18:17:08 k 18:17:13 just a note about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1394755 18:17:21 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1363915 fixed with https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/pull-request/99#request_diff 18:17:26 I should be back on a laptop in an hour or two to talk with blivet/anaconda/releng 18:17:32 if any of you encounter login issues after upgrade, please see that bug 18:17:51 I was trying to figure out when it happens and I didn't succeed 18:18:04 but it would be a possible blocker material 18:18:29 Criteria say upgrades are only blocking with default package sets 18:20:09 well I'm currently not sure what the trigger is, it might be unrelated to the gstreamer plugin, that's just my guess 18:20:17 OK 18:20:34 I didn't get it on upgrade of my laptop, fwiw 18:20:35 either way, it would be a bad bug 18:20:39 ok 18:21:21 Anything else we need to cover? 18:21:30 heh, bed bug 18:22:03 Beginning shutdown sequence in 3... 18:22:05 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390607 comes to mind, but we're waiting for dev response there 18:22:11 it was reopened 18:22:22 Our ears, when kparal says "I've found a blocker" 18:22:31 haha 18:23:13 3... 18:23:16 * kparal starts playing witcher 3 again, he definitely is not searcher for further blockers 18:23:22 *searching 18:23:24 2... 18:23:40 1... 18:24:11 Thanks for the participation today guys. 18:24:16 #endmeeting