16:02:07 <roshi> #startmeeting F26-blocker-review
16:02:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 15 16:02:07 2017 UTC.  The chair is roshi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:02:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:02:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'f26-blocker-review'
16:02:07 <roshi> #meetingname F26-blocker-review
16:02:07 <roshi> #topic Roll Call
16:02:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'f26-blocker-review'
16:02:16 <roshi> who's around?
16:02:24 * Kohane is here
16:02:27 * satellit listening
16:02:33 <Kohane> .fas lailah
16:02:34 <zodbot> Kohane: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
16:02:36 <roshi> Kohane: I'm always online, just not always paying attention :p
16:02:41 <sgallagh> I can chime in if needed, but I'm multitasking and swamped
16:02:53 * adamw drains the sgallagh swamp
16:02:55 <Kohane> roshi: good to know :D
16:03:28 <hdost> here
16:03:36 <roshi> #chair Kohane adamw pwhalen hdost sgallagh
16:03:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane adamw hdost pwhalen roshi sgallagh
16:03:44 <roshi> #topic Introduction
16:03:45 <roshi> Why are we here?
16:03:45 <roshi> #info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs.
16:03:45 <adamw> .hello adamwill
16:03:46 <zodbot> adamw: adamwill 'Adam Williamson' <awilliam@redhat.com>
16:03:48 <roshi> #info We'll be following the process outlined at:
16:03:51 <roshi> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
16:03:54 <roshi> #info The bugs up for review today are available at:
16:03:56 <roshi> #link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current
16:03:58 <roshi> #info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at:
16:04:01 <roshi> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_26_Alpha_Release_Criteria
16:04:02 <alciregi> .hello alciregi
16:04:03 <zodbot> alciregi: alciregi 'Alessio Ciregia' <alciregi@gmail.com>
16:04:04 <roshi> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_26_Beta_Release_Criteria
16:04:07 <roshi> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_26_Final_Release_Criteria
16:04:16 <roshi> Kohane: which bug did you want to discuss?
16:04:55 * pschindl_wfh is here
16:05:00 * roshi doesn't see on blockerbugs
16:05:01 <Kohane> Well, I didn't file them yet because I haven't enough technical data. But they are two.
16:05:10 <roshi> and /me refreshes email
16:05:58 <Kohane> One is related to install Fedora in dual boot.  I installed it in two different laptops, one with dual boot (Windows/Fedora) and the other with dual boot (Debian/Fedora).
16:06:04 * kparal lurks if needed
16:06:15 <adamw> okay
16:06:26 <Kohane> The dual boot with Windows had no problems but installing Fedora in dual boot with Debian left Debian unable to boot.
16:07:00 <Kohane> I have no idea why, but I had to reinstall Debian to get it working properly.
16:07:20 <Kohane> That's one issue.
16:07:49 <roshi> Kohane: did you not file bugs, or not submit them as blockers>
16:07:50 <roshi> ?
16:08:17 <Kohane> roshi:  I just said I didn't file a bug because I haven't info enough.
16:08:32 <adamw> do you know if these were UEFI or BIOS installs? (both the Debian and Fedora installs)
16:08:34 <Kohane> But I can do so if you it worth despite the lack of data
16:08:40 <Kohane> BIO
16:08:59 <sgallagh> Dual-booting two Linux distributions isn't a blocker, is it?
16:09:08 <Kohane> No, wait. BIO is the one I have with Windows. Let me check the other one...
16:10:03 <adamw> sgallagh: i think we made it one...let me see
16:10:13 <roshi> ok, I wasn't sure what you meant by "didn't file them yet"
16:10:27 <adamw> hum. maybe we didn't.
16:10:43 <adamw> oh, maybe we got hung up defining exactly what was a supportable scenario...
16:11:14 <Kohane> adamw: it's BIOS
16:11:19 <adamw> so afaics, kohane, dual-boot with debian wouldn't be a release blocker. but if it is broken that's unfortunate and should at least be an FE; it'd be a good idea to see if it can be reproduced from scratch in a VM
16:11:33 <roshi> yeah
16:11:40 <sgallagh> I thought we had roughly settled on "must work with the OS that shipped on the device"
16:11:53 <Kohane> Good.
16:12:00 <adamw> sgallagh: we have criteria for windows and os x dual boot, nothing for other Linux distros that i can see
16:12:16 <sgallagh> Well, that was kind of the subtext ;-)
16:12:32 <adamw> sgallagh: well, there ARE systems that ship with linux :P
16:12:48 <sgallagh> I know, I was joking.
16:12:52 <Kohane> I guess Fedora people don't expect to share space with other Linux systems
16:13:03 <adamw> Kohane: if you can reproduce it from scratch in a VM, file a bug, propose as an FE, and include details (preferably including a photo) of exactly what you see on the boot menu, and also include the grub.cfg file
16:13:05 <sgallagh> (And apparently, Windows is now one of them...)
16:13:26 <adamw> Kohane: it *should* work, but it's a bit difficult to make it a release blocker, as there's just so many distros ad combinations
16:13:42 <adamw> it's been proposed a few times but we couldn't nail down a wording that made people happy
16:14:12 <Kohane> adamw:  the GRUB looks fine, but if I select Debian it returns an error and doesn't boot.  If I select Fedora it boots normally. Now I have it with Debian only and works fine so far.
16:14:29 <Kohane> adamw: sure I understand.
16:14:36 <adamw> Kohane: right, but for the sake of debugging the problem, it'd be good to have precise info - exactly what the bootloader screen shows, and the config file
16:14:47 <roshi> so yeah, if you can reproduce it in a VM, file a bug and provide info we'll look at it as an FE
16:14:50 <adamw> oh, and assign the bug to grub2 or grubby
16:15:04 <roshi> what was the second issue Kohane?
16:15:07 <Kohane> okay.
16:15:26 <Kohane> roshi: the second issue is related to KDE
16:17:53 <Kohane> I have two cases that happened just days ago.  One is installing Fedora KDE spin and been unable to have a graphic session because something fails and Plasma won't start.  The other is installing a Fedora Workstation and installing KDE afterwards. Again, different things fail so Plasma doesn't start, been some of them packages missing.
16:18:27 <adamw> i've seen intermittent failure of KDE to start in openQA tests
16:18:35 <adamw> i spent some time on Friday trying to reproduce it in a VM but couldn't
16:18:39 <adamw> were you testing in a VM? on metal?
16:18:40 <Kohane> Is strange that if you install the spin or run a group install there are essential packages missing.
16:18:43 <adamw> oh, i also tried on a laptop
16:18:47 <Kohane> No, on bare metal.
16:18:55 <adamw> Kohane: how exactly did you 'install KDE', in the second case?
16:20:10 <Kohane> dnf group install
16:20:16 <adamw> which group?
16:21:05 <adamw> i'd go with 'dnf groupinstall kde-desktop-environment'
16:21:19 <adamw> but if you did 'dnf groupinstall kde-desktop', that ought to at least give you a functioning KDE, i agree
16:21:23 <roshi> so it wasn't an install from a installation disk?
16:21:41 <Kohane> yes, that was it, I was searching what I did. I have it written down on a paper not to forget.
16:21:42 <adamw> roshi: no, he just said he installed Workstation then installed KDE aftert.
16:21:56 <roshi> ok
16:22:07 <Kohane> In one case was installing the KDE spin.
16:22:08 <adamw> Kohane: OK, so again, if that's reproducible, it's certainly worth filing a bug on, and it may be worth an FE. again most likely not a blocker though, at least for that part
16:22:13 * satellit i just saw  n cinnamon (0513.n.0)dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop fails to start
16:22:22 <Kohane> and in the other was installing Workstation and KDE after.
16:22:23 <adamw> the intermittent failure of KDE to start on the live image (or an install from the live image) does worry me though
16:22:30 <adamw> i wish i could reproduce that one
16:23:20 <roshi> that is worrying
16:23:36 <roshi> I could be +1 FE on the install KDE after the fact
16:23:59 <adamw> Kohane: did the 'KDE startup fails' you hit look something like https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/86655/file/video.ogv ?
16:24:17 <adamw> that's how it looks in openQA, the splash screen shows for a bit, then you just get a black screen with a KDE-style cursor, nothing else
16:24:18 <Kohane> Give me a moment to see, please.
16:25:46 <Kohane> adamw:  one of the failures looked similar to that, but it wasn't the same error.
16:26:08 <adamw> how do you mean, 'the same error'?
16:26:12 <Kohane> I had many failures with KDE, it wasn't only one.
16:26:59 <adamw> ah, i see.
16:27:01 <Kohane> Because in that video, there's an update before it fails.
16:27:08 <adamw> Kohane: oh, that's not the important part
16:27:14 <adamw> it just sometimes fails like that on login
16:27:21 <adamw> it doesn't seem to matter what else has happend in the test before
16:27:31 <adamw> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/92878 is another case, for instance
16:27:38 <adamw> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/92878/file/video.ogv
16:27:50 <Kohane> I didn't update. It just got stuck and said that kdeinit couldn't start.
16:27:50 <adamw> oh, you can download the logs from openqa failures - https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/92878/file/_graphical_wait_login-var_log.tar.gz
16:27:59 <adamw> maybe compare that to your logs and see if they match?
16:28:06 <adamw> but yeah, this definitely worries me
16:28:08 <Kohane> That was in the KDE installed in Workstation.
16:28:31 <Kohane> One of the failures. Others were simply packages missing.
16:28:35 <adamw> those are probably two different issues, so we should handle them separately
16:29:03 <adamw> if you can reproduce the workstation-then-kde one, just file a bug listing exactly what you did, and the packages that were missing, probably filed against comps
16:29:22 <adamw> the 'sometimes it hangs' one, we should compare logs and stuff, see if we can isolate the cause...
16:29:59 <Kohane> Yes, and the issue with the KDE spin returns an error message saying the QML fails, it's impossible to find  xxx plasmoids, missing org.kde.kconfig
16:30:24 <Kohane> adamw: give me a moment to check the links, please.
16:31:28 <adamw> we don't have to do it live in a meeting - i'm just saying, it's a significant issue and potentially a blocker, but we should try to compare notes and see if we can find commonalities before filing the bug
16:31:34 <adamw> we can do it by email or in #fedora-qa
16:31:49 <adamw> but if we can isolate some specific bug, it'd definitely be worth considering as a blocker
16:32:07 <Kohane> This doesn't looks like the bugs I found  https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/92878
16:33:03 <adamw> hum, okay
16:33:06 <adamw> so maybe we have different ones :/
16:33:14 <roshi> adamw: want to do an #info for this and close this out and move to #fedora-qa?
16:33:14 <adamw> did you read the logs?
16:33:49 <Kohane> No, because I don't know what logs to check when it comes to KDE.
16:33:59 <Kohane> I always use Gnome
16:34:03 <adamw> Kohane: oh, check /var/log/messages and /var/log/Xorg.0.log for a start
16:34:17 <Kohane> Oh, okay, thanks
16:34:36 <adamw> #info kohane raised several issues for discussion, we see some potential FEs and we are concerned about intermittent failure of KDE to start properly, will continue to investigate that and try to spot a common pattern in logs
16:35:07 <adamw> #info we still do not have sufficient information on the outstanding proposed FE to make a decision on it
16:37:29 <adamw> that's all i got
16:37:37 <Kohane> ok
16:37:44 <Kohane> That was all from me.
16:38:36 <roshi> thanks Kohane
16:38:41 <roshi> #topic Open Floor
16:38:47 <roshi> anyone have anything else?
16:38:49 <alexpl> sorry to cut in, but which compose gave those errors?
16:38:54 <Kohane> roshi: my pleasure
16:41:31 <roshi> no worries alexpl :)
16:42:20 <adamw> alexpl: i've been seeing it in openqa for a long time
16:42:24 <adamw> not sure which compose kohane was testing
16:42:40 <adamw> i've never been able to nail it down precisely enough to file a bug, that was partly why i was testing it manually on friday, to see if i could
16:42:55 <Kohane> adamw: sorry for the dumb question, but what is a compose?
16:43:14 <adamw> Kohane: what's the filename of the live image you tested with?
16:44:23 <Kohane> I don't remember. I tested it because a friend was experiencing problems with it, so I wanted to see if I could reproduce them.
16:44:53 <adamw> okay. the compose is Fedora-26-20170513.n.0 or whatever
16:45:11 <adamw> each time we build a fresh set of images and so on, that's a 'compose'
16:45:59 <Kohane> yes, but just as a note, my friend was struggling with Fedora 25, so I suspect these are errors that have been happening for a while.
16:46:15 <Kohane> adamw: oh, thanks
16:46:38 <alexpl> Kohane: Are you talking about the dual boot issues as well?
16:46:56 <Kohane> no
16:47:09 <Kohane> I'm talking about the KDE issues.
16:49:07 <alexpl> Kohane: Do you have a ballpark estimate on the age of the image that gave you dual boot problems?
16:49:35 <Kohane> Some 2 weeks.
16:50:57 <roshi> anything else for the blocker review or, should I close this out?
16:51:13 <alexpl> Thanks for the info, I'm good
16:51:22 * roshi sets the fuse...
16:51:23 <roshi> 3...
16:51:24 * Kohane has nothing else in hands
16:51:35 <roshi> thanks for coming folks!
16:51:46 <roshi> thanks for bringing up the issues Kohane!
16:51:47 <roshi> 2...
16:51:59 <Kohane> roshi: my pleasure!
16:52:03 <roshi> 1...
16:52:09 <roshi> #endmeeting