01:00:43 <nirik> #startmeeting
01:00:54 <nirik> #meetingtopic Class on Preupgrade
01:01:14 <nirik> #meetingtopic Class on Preupgrade
01:01:30 <nirik> Welcome everyone.
01:01:54 <nirik> I'm going to be talking about preupgrade tonight.
01:02:11 <nirik> Feel free to chime in with questions at any time...
01:02:27 <LinuxCode> ;-}
01:02:33 <nirik> I guess I will go ahead and get started. ;)
01:02:41 <LinuxCode> sure
01:02:42 * ianweller so lovingly lurks
01:02:56 * LinuxCode finds his old laptop he could upgrade
01:03:01 <nirik> #topic Upgrading Fedora installs
01:03:13 <nirik> So, Lets talk a bit about some background here.
01:03:30 <nirik> There are a number of ways to upgrade an machine you have.
01:03:50 * Viking-Ice__ also lurks more out of curiosity than anything else before going to sleep..
01:04:05 <nirik> Perhaps the easiest and most fool proof is to simply backup your user data, and do a fresh install of the new fedora version.
01:04:31 <nirik> This allows you to take advantage of things like new filesystems, or new sets of packages and it's pretty easy to do.
01:04:53 <nirik> Of course this is somewhat time consuming, as you must restore your user data, setup any applications you have and so forth.
01:05:22 <nirik> Next in the spectrum we have media upgrades.
01:05:40 <nirik> This is where you use the new DVD/install media and boot from it, and use it to upgrade your existing install.
01:06:25 <nirik> This has the advantage that you don't need to resetup applications or the like, but you must reboot on the dvd which can be difficult when you are not physically at the machine.
01:06:43 <nirik> You also don't get some new advantages of the newer Fedora, (new filesystem, etc).
01:07:01 <nirik> Next in the line of things, we come to Preupgrade.
01:07:25 <nirik> I'm going to talk about it much more in a second, but let me skip over it and list the very last upgrade method...
01:08:01 <nirik> Yum upgrades. You can use yum to upgrade the machine. This is the least supported/tested method, and is really should only be done by very advanced users. ;)
01:09:02 <nirik> Those are kind of the order I see the methods in. If you are a new user, a fresh re-install may be the best option.
01:09:12 <nirik> Anyone have questions on those methods?
01:09:58 <nirik> ok. Moving along.
01:10:10 <nirik> #topic Backups. Backups. Backups.
01:10:33 <nirik> With any upgrade procedure, it's always a very good idea to make a backup of your existing working install before trying the upgrade.
01:11:00 <nirik> Sure you can recreate much of the setup and config, but it's time consuming... and some data is not easily replaceable.
01:11:07 <nirik> So, backup before you start. ;)
01:11:47 <nirik> how to do backups is beyond the scope of this class, but we would welcome some classes on backups. :)
01:11:56 <nirik> #topic What is Preupgrade
01:12:36 <nirik> Preupgrade is a way to update a fedora install that allows you to download the packages you need for the upgrade in the background while you are using your current install, then reboot and run the upgrade.
01:13:22 <nirik> This makes it safer than a yum upgrade (it still uses the anaconda upgrader as the dvd media does) and also easier than having to download and burn a media.
01:13:55 <nirik> You also only download those things you need for your particular machine, so it's more BW efficent than downloading the entire dvd.
01:14:39 <nirik> You can find the preupgrade code/site at: https://fedorahosted.org/preupgrade
01:14:52 <nirik> and more info about it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/PreUpgrade
01:15:29 <nirik> so, thats the general overview, I'm going to go into more specifics after this. ;) Any questions so far?
01:16:07 <nirik> ok, moving along.
01:16:16 <nirik> #topic Calling Preupgrade
01:16:33 <nirik> There are several ways you can start the preupgrade process:
01:17:19 <nirik> 1. PackageKit (the Fedora package management utility) will check for major upgrades and notify you about them. If you wish to upgrade you can start the preupgrade gui from there when it asks you.
01:17:39 <nirik> ie, if you have a fedora 10 install now, PackageKit may tell you that Fedora 11 is available and ask you if you want to upgrade.
01:18:01 <nirik> 2. You can manually run the preupgrade gui tool.
01:18:14 <nirik> 3. You can run 'preupgrade-cli' for a command line only system.
01:18:29 <nirik> All of these methods use the same backend.
01:19:05 <nirik> If you run preupgrade at a time when there are several stable fedora releases, you can choose which you would like to upgrade to.
01:19:52 <nirik> Also, you can uncheck a 'show unstable (alpha, beta)' releases checkbox in the gui to upgrade to unstable releases.
01:20:08 <nirik> Of course you should be ready for problems upgrading to rawhide/alpha/beta.
01:20:49 <nirik> #topic what does it do?
01:21:17 <nirik> so, once you have started it via any of the above means, preupgrade will do the following:
01:21:39 <nirik> 1. Examine your installed system and see what packages you have installed.
01:21:51 <nirik> 2. Check the version you are upgrading to, and see what packages you need there.
01:22:07 <nirik> 3. Download those packages.
01:22:25 <nirik> 4. Download the anaconda installer/upgrader and the files/images it needs.
01:22:50 <nirik> 5. Setup your /etc/grub.conf to boot into the upgrader on the next reboot only.
01:23:06 <nirik> 6. Let you reboot at your leasure to start the upgrade.
01:23:31 <nirik> 7. You reboot and the anaconda upgrade screen comes up. It uses the packages downloaded in step 3 to upgrade your install.
01:23:46 <nirik> 8. You finish the upgrade, reboot and are in the new version.
01:24:32 <nirik> Any questions on the procedure?
01:24:55 <nirik> #topic Some mechanical details
01:25:28 <nirik> Preupgrade stores the packages you download in /var/cache/yum/preupgrade/ You must have enough space there to download them all.
01:25:53 <nirik> Preupgrade stores the anaconda files and images in /boot/preupgrade So you need enough space there.
01:26:44 <nirik> The largest of the anaconda images is the 'stage2' image. If there is not enough space for it, preupgrade can skip downloading it and ask you to configure networking to download it when you do the upgrade.
01:27:30 <nirik> Any questions so far?
01:27:35 * nirik hopes the mic is on. ;)
01:27:47 <jds2001> heh it is :)
01:27:50 <jds2001> you're just so good :)
01:27:57 <nirik> #topic Possible issues and problems
01:28:02 <nirik> Ha.
01:28:14 <nirik> So, there are a few gotchas I know about preupgrade right now.
01:28:32 <nirik> If you have /boot on a software raid, preupgrade can't currently deal with it correctly.
01:28:57 <nirik> You must have enough space to run preupgrade. It will of course tell you if you don't, but won't work.
01:29:41 <nirik> You can of course run into any anaconda bug you would for a media upgrade.
01:30:25 <nirik> #topic tricks and tips
01:30:47 <nirik> I've done a number of preupgrades here and they have worked pretty nicely.
01:31:33 <nirik> One trick you can use on a headless machine: use preupgrade-cli and before rebooting edit your grub.conf and pass the vnc parameter to the upgrader. This will allow you to run the upgrade via another machine and vnc.
01:32:25 <nirik> You can use that trick to pass anaconda options to the installer if you need any of them.
01:33:39 * nirik looks at his notes.
01:33:50 <burnin> in the case of a /boot on software raid is there a work around or at this point is there no using preupgrade in that case?
01:34:17 <LinuxCode> burnin, there is supposed to be a pop-up that tells you its not supported
01:34:29 <LinuxCode> however, that doesnt work, and the koji build also doesnt work for me
01:34:45 <nirik> that would be this bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444497
01:34:59 <LinuxCode> burnin, Im sure there is a workaround by disabling the raid for /boot
01:35:14 <LinuxCode> however, there might be issues
01:35:20 <nirik> or rather this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500004
01:35:45 <nirik> see that bug for workarounds.
01:36:53 <nirik> really the easiest would just be to do a media upgrade at this point I think.
01:37:34 <LinuxCode> fact is, preupgrade seems to go along the right track though
01:37:58 <LinuxCode> might take a  few releases to get really usable, in multi-scenarios
01:37:59 <nirik> It's a pretty nice tool.
01:38:03 <LinuxCode> yah
01:38:07 <nirik> It's better than it was at first.
01:38:15 <LinuxCode> indeed
01:38:19 <nirik> (as is most developing software).
01:38:27 <LinuxCode> and takes away the upgrade scare from new users
01:38:35 <nirik> #topic Questions and Answers / General discussion
01:38:46 <nirik> Thats all I had on my notes. ;)
01:38:55 <LinuxCode> thanks nirik
01:38:59 <nirik> Anyone have any questions on anything?
01:39:09 <burnin> so running it manually on a F10 install will it be under the System->Administration menu?
01:39:09 <LinuxCode> not me ;-}
01:39:26 <burnin> I may give preupgrade a shot on my laptop. :)
01:39:35 <LinuxCode> burnin, open a terminal as your user
01:39:43 <LinuxCode> type: ./preupgrade
01:39:44 <nirik> burnin: yeah, i think so.
01:39:55 <LinuxCode> nirik, I ahvent got an icon
01:39:57 <nirik> just 'preupgrade' it will find it.
01:40:02 <LinuxCode> it pops up a reminder every so often
01:40:18 <burnin> k
01:40:18 <nirik> oh, one other thing I wanted to mention.
01:40:35 <nirik> If you want to see the releases that are available for preupgrade, it uses: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/releases.txt
01:41:08 <burnin> thanks for the lesson nirik
01:41:25 <nirik> and if you are wanting to upgrade from an older non supported release, be carefull, as many of them don't have the latest preupgrade version.
01:41:33 <nirik> burnin: happy to teach.
01:42:34 <nirik> ok, I don't have much more, so if there are no questions I guess we can close up early. ;)
01:42:54 * nirik will wait a min or two for any questions
01:42:56 <LinuxCode> ;-}
01:45:25 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone. ;)
01:45:30 <nirik> #endmeeting