19:00:08 #startmeeting 19:00:11 Meeting started Tue Apr 27 19:00:08 2010 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:12 #chair jzb 19:00:12 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:14 Current chairs: jzb mchua 19:00:16 #chair nirik 19:00:16 Current chairs: jzb mchua nirik 19:00:35 * rbergeron waves 19:01:18 hi rbergeron ! 19:01:30 looks like we've even lured FunkyPenguin over 19:01:39 By way of introduction - this is a Fedora Classroom (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom) session with jzb (Joe "Zonker" Brockmeier), who'll be talking about how to make life awesome for journalists. 19:01:51 thanks! 19:01:55 OK, we're ready to start? 19:01:57 We've got an hour, so - jzb, take it away. 19:02:06 Hi and thanks for joining me today to talk about how to make Fedora awesome for journalists. 19:02:17 My super-quick intro: I'm a full-time freelance writer and spend most of that time covering Linux and open source. A big chunk of what I do is reviews and writing about open source projects. 19:02:29 I've been writing for more than 10 years professionally, and also spent two years working with the openSUSE Project as a community manager, and have also been involved with Ohio LinuxFest and GNOME doing work on PR and other miscellaneous stuff. 19:02:40 In short, I've spent a lot of time in and around FOSS projects like Fedora as well as covering them. 19:02:52 Naturally, this session isn't really about making *Fedora awesome so much as telling the Fedora story effectively and showing off your existing awesome so that journalists get a chance to see the features and such that you're hoping they'll focus on. 19:03:08 Fedora is already awesome :-) 19:03:19 It's a matter of making sure that journalists can see it. 19:03:27 whoo.. i just sync'd my nokia e51 with evolution :D 19:03:29 I'm hoping that at least part of the class can be Q&A so that it's not just me typing into an IRC window and wondering if folks are getting any value out of the session... 19:03:38 oops, sorry, wrong channel 19:03:40 or even awake. :-) IRC is great for some things, but audience feedback is not one of them. :-) 19:03:50 jzb: +1 19:03:56 So if you have a question at any point... just speak up 19:04:05 So - quick summary of what I hope that contributors will take away from this: 19:04:12 1) a better understanding of what journalists do and how FOSS advocates can work with them effectively, 19:04:22 2) better tools to support journalists and reviewers, and 19:04:31 3) how to work with writers and journalists through the entire process including after publication. This includes corrections and supporting the writers who have written about the project. 19:04:37 Any questions so far? 19:04:59 * rbergeron says no :) 19:05:05 Any topics that I haven't mentioned yet that folks would like me to cover? 19:05:07 +1 19:05:21 OK 19:05:24 So: What are journalists looking for? It varies a lot - some writers like Ryan Paul are knowledgeable enough and follow Fedora ~full time so they need very little hand holding. 19:05:24 do you mean classic journalism? 19:05:39 oenone, I mean people writing about technology 19:05:47 technically this is not always journalism per se 19:06:03 okay 19:06:14 Others are going to need more detail to see 1) what has changed between releases, 2) how to enable features, 3) see what to focus on. 19:06:22 Fedora is pretty good about this. Actually, Fedora is one of the best distros when it comes to providing this information. 19:06:38 The talking points and feature pages are great - providing that journalists can find them. 19:06:57 What I haven't noticed so far is outgoing efforts to get in touch with individual journalists 19:07:05 or a press list similar to KDE's 19:07:09 those are good things on both counts 19:07:31 Having one or more folks in the community that has developed personal relationships with journalists is a very good idea. 19:07:48 who here is working on press efforts? 19:07:56 * rbergeron raises hand 19:08:04 in a vague sort of way :) 19:08:09 * mchua raises hand, sort of 19:08:11 wonderer is doing a lot of work with the press kit. 19:08:21 * gbraad_mobile raises hand, sort of 19:08:25 rbergeron, what happens with the press kit once it's finished? 19:08:29 Not directly, but indirectly more as a FOSS-advocate in corporate/government IT shops 19:08:34 * rbergeron is jack of all trades with marketing.. master of none 19:08:51 jzb: in the past - our "press kit" has consisted of a sheet of paper with a USB key. 19:08:57 rbergeron: you stole my descript :) 19:09:02 jzb: it sits in a box on the shelf for everyone to point at. 19:09:21 the sheet of paper is literally a "this is a usb key, plz install" and "btw, here are some things you should see about fedora." 19:09:39 rbergeron, how many of those are sent out? 19:09:43 so the question has moved to a - do we need to have an official press kit - will this be getting more effective notice from press-journalist-types 19:10:03 * rbergeron looks around for stickster - i have no clue, offhand. 19:10:06 OK 19:10:24 it's really been more of a red hat / fedora thing - we're really trying to move some of that stuff out and make it far more community-oriented and developed. 19:10:39 If there's any sort of CMS that Fedora uses or some private page on the wiki, it might be a good thing to keep a list of who's been contacted and how 19:10:45 and do follow-ups 19:10:46 jzb: I do believe the number sent out is near 0(ZERO) 19:11:05 so we're doing things twofold in a sense - trying to figure out how to do marketing in a community way, and also work with press people and figure out the best strategy forthat 19:11:09 EvilBob, that's... less effective than >0 19:11:17 OK 19:11:33 i think there is a list of people who get them, and i believe that list is not very long. 19:11:46 anyway. :) 19:11:50 rbergeron, for the most part, I think the USB key is unnecessary 19:12:00 but the contacts are essential 19:12:07 * rbergeron nods 19:12:19 You basically have two or three groups of journalists 19:12:34 the first group are the usual suspects 19:12:45 Ryan Paul, myself, SJVN, LWN, 19:12:51 that you probably don't need to pitch very hard 19:12:56 to get coverage with 19:13:08 it's the next group that you really need to worry about 19:13:21 the folks that write for publications that cover Linux but not as a primary focus 19:13:37 and may or may not cover Fedora depending on whether they think it's newsworthy 19:13:46 for LWN pretty much every Fedora release is newsworthy 19:13:58 but not necessarily for ZDNet or CNet 19:14:10 (any questions or am I saying anything yet that's not blindingly obvious?) 19:14:23 * rbergeron is copiously taking notes despite everything being logged :) 19:14:33 Makes sense, please proceed. 19:14:34 So far you are mentioning online news sources 19:14:37 The larger publications are probably more likely to focus on Enterprise Linux. 19:14:43 Right? 19:14:48 makfinsky, correct, but... 19:15:06 If approached correctly they should be looking at the community distros 19:15:10 as precursors to Enterprise Linux 19:15:26 I'd pitch to enterprise folks as "this is what Enterprise Linux is going to look like in 3 years" 19:15:29 So, how do we approach correctly? With hand pinching nose? 19:15:34 ;) 19:15:35 Is print as important as in the past? 19:15:42 ie: these new features are what are going to be the differentiators in the big enterprise distros in the next few years 19:15:45 ? 19:15:52 EvilBob, no. 19:15:53 :-0 19:15:55 er, :-) 19:15:56 rbergeron: Yes, that makes sense to me. 19:15:59 this is why these things are important? 19:16:01 EvilBob, there's not that much print left 19:16:04 for instance, I think using/testing F12 prior to RHEL6 is a very good idea (as RHEL6 will be very much based on many versions in F12, but not entirely), but how would you sell that to the press? 19:16:05 oops, sorry I was late folks. 19:16:11 rbergeron, yes - for example 19:16:20 At least that's why I've gotten as involved in Fedora - mos of my customers are enterprise customers. 19:16:22 rbergeron, think about the btrfs rollback 19:16:22 jzb: I still wait eagerly for my LJ to show up every month 19:16:29 I want to know what they will be able to do and how. 19:16:31 EvilBob, do you already know about Fedora? 19:16:45 ;^) 19:17:04 EvilBob, then consider yourself reached. ;-) I mean, it's still important to maintain relationships with existing users 19:17:20 EvilBob, but if the idea is to inform new users, LJ.. probably isn't going to get it done. 19:17:25 jzb: But... I don't know about what opensuse is doing, and LJ can give me that 19:17:26 few LJ readers are unaware of Fedora 19:17:41 EvilBob, fair point. 19:17:56 EvilBob, but they're in the "in the know" group. 19:17:59 did not intend to derail the train 19:18:11 jzb: doesn't the lead time from writing to print to delivery in the magazine world 19:18:30 make it more ripe for things like - talking about features more in depth - than talking about "up next in the F13 release" 19:18:33 Sounds like there are two components we're talking about here - general awareness of existence and awareness of features. 19:18:34 ? 19:18:41 jzb: is there somewhere we should "waste our time" im thinking WSJ NYT etc. 19:18:52 not waste* 19:19:13 rbergeron, not necessarily - it depends a lot on page count 19:19:34 rbergeron, the lead time is much shorter than it used to be, too. 19:19:40 innnteresting 19:19:42 It's still much longer than online publishing 19:19:59 but if I have a word count of 1,200 - 2,000 word 19:20:05 it's not easy to get in depth 19:20:09 right 19:20:19 rbergeron, page counts have shrunk a lot 19:20:31 makfinsky, yes 19:21:02 makfinsky, for some publications the best you can hope for is 400 words and a link to Fedora's site 19:21:11 for publications like, say, eWeek 19:21:22 you might get 800 - 1000 words 19:21:31 if you have 5 features that really stand out 19:21:42 you want to make sure that's reflected in communications with the journalist. 19:21:49 I love the Fedora feature pages by the way 19:21:59 but - and I say this with love and respect for the work that's already gone in 19:22:16 a slight bit of explaining a little more about why those features are important wouldn't hurt 19:22:31 and maybe organizing by importance rather than alphabetically 19:22:36 about each individual feature - or "this group of features as a whole" 19:22:57 rbergeron, that too - some of the individual features are really part of a larger whole 19:23:10 rbergeron, for example, I grouped all the Python improvements 19:23:28 jzb - you're talking about the big list of features, not necessarily when we pare them down into things like the grouped talking poitns 19:23:31 points 19:23:33 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_talking_points 19:23:49 grouped by desktop users, admins, developers 19:24:02 picking some of the more high-profile things to talk about 19:24:37 jzb: what i'm saying is... do you think we should be prioritizing the regular feature list as well? would that be more useful for you? 19:24:47 this list http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList 19:24:52 rbergeron, yes 19:25:02 also to users 19:25:22 i mean - and maybe someone else could step in and hold my hand here - i think a lot of that list is more useful to engineering, etc to keep track of status. 19:25:31 maybe a more press-friendly version of that page 19:25:39 without paring it down into Talking Points? 19:25:59 rbergeron, correct - ideally the same page could be used for users + press 19:26:09 rbergeron, more of a "new feature guide" / "review guide" 19:26:37 so, somebody like lwnjake might know where to begin with a review 19:26:44 but if you aren't a full-time Linux user 19:26:49 it's all greek :) 19:27:05 it's hard to stare at a GNOME desktop from F12 to F13 and figure out what's changed or is important 19:27:12 or possibly all english, if you're living in greece. :) 19:27:18 :-) 19:27:29 my ears are burning 19:27:36 we're talking about you :) 19:27:36 there are also a lot of "under the hood" improvements that aren't obvious 19:27:50 * rbergeron nods 19:28:07 Yes, how do we highlight those? 19:28:11 one thing that I find missing in the talking points 19:28:17 is a bit of history 19:28:20 That's a problem I have all the time, with computers in general. 19:28:30 who did the work on the feature, and where does it come from? 19:28:37 * rbergeron nods 19:28:53 we try to cover some of that in feature profiles - where we take some of the features, individually, and do stories on them 19:28:55 Maybe if Fedora makes a practice with this 19:28:59 interview the coders 19:29:01 other distros will follow 19:29:01 another problem is in the structure of the wiki I think, non-features still being listed as a feature years later even after being of no interest to users in the first place. example https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId 19:29:03 etc. 19:29:08 rbergeron, are those linked from the talking points? 19:29:30 jzb: Nope - usually just the other way around. 19:29:34 Hm. We should... do that. 19:29:34 jzb: yargh, offhand, i'm not sure. we may link to them as they get developed - we just had our second one out today. 19:29:43 there are many things in the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Feature* name space that are, WOW... 19:29:51 rbergeron, I saw that - tell Kara she's doing well :-) 19:30:15 jzb: kara does the press blogs - but we get actual community marketing people to do the feature profiles you read on the fp.o wiki. 19:30:27 for example - the python one today that kara wrote about - went to mel's interview. 19:30:49 next week's hardware enablements piece is from interviews i've done. 19:30:50 etc. 19:30:51 rbergeron, right - I just meant she's reaching out to the right folks :-) 19:30:58 right right :) 19:31:02 rbergeron, Red Hat hasn't always been good at that :-) 19:31:07 but that's another story :-) 19:31:21 the other thing that's crucial is spokespeople 19:31:25 and here's a sticky one 19:31:33 who serves as a spokesperson for Fedora? 19:31:42 jzb: Ambassadors...? 19:31:42 that would mostly be stickster. 19:31:47 rbergeron: Actually... 19:31:52 you mean when $pressguy comes and says 19:31:56 "we need a quote for this story?" 19:32:08 rbergeron, or hand-holding for a review, yeah 19:32:18 at the very top of the page 19:32:18 Well, yeah, it's mostly stickster then :-) 19:32:23 have a contact 19:32:26 FPL. 19:32:34 "For press inquiries" 19:32:39 contact stickster 19:32:43 or whomever 19:32:48 press@fp.o is the right contact addy 19:32:53 well - i think it's contact kara - who directs to stickster 19:33:12 stickster, rbergeron right - but the important thing is - how easy is it for me as press to find it? 19:33:14 I think jzb's point is that it should be a person, a real name. 19:33:20 rbergeron: See above ^^. That address comes to me, Kara, and a couple other people for redundancy's sake 19:33:24 makfinsky, it's OK if it's just press@ 19:33:24 * rbergeron nods 19:33:28 Ok. 19:33:33 makfinsky, it just needs to be easily found 19:33:41 so - we've been talking about having press.fp.o 19:33:42 Gotcha. 19:33:42 and responded to quickly 19:33:50 as a portal with necessary press information 19:33:53 * stickster googles "fedora press" and immediately finds a couple pages we could treat with a better template. Thanks jzb 19:33:57 making things easy to find for journalists 19:34:03 stickster: easyfix! 19:34:08 rbergeron, that brings me to my next point :-) 19:34:10 stickster: or moderately-easy-fix :) 19:34:14 understanding press :-) 19:34:35 Now more than ever 19:34:45 most of the people who will write about Fedora are *not SME's 19:34:53 (Subject Matter Experts) 19:35:01 they will also be on really tight deadlines 19:35:17 and often have very little time to do in-depth reporting or reviewing 19:35:30 so they need answers and need them now and need to figure out a way to find someone and get the information they need 19:35:31 all of the materials I am suggesting 19:35:41 in concise, easy spot 19:35:41 rbergeron, yep 19:35:57 are to help ensure they 1) know what to look at and 2) get the facts right 19:36:04 the other side of that is 19:36:11 they're not always going to get it right 19:36:23 any more than Fedora is going to ship an entirely bug-free releaase 19:36:24 release 19:36:39 * rbergeron nods 19:36:46 it's vitally important that when corrections are made 19:36:55 they're made gently and with understanding 19:37:18 jzb: Like this one! Great point about bug-free releases -- no one has those. :-) 19:37:22 How'd I do? 19:37:29 so stupid question from the peanut gallery - how are corrections best made - direct email, comments, something else entirely?? 19:37:40 ke4qqq, depends on the correction + publication 19:37:56 "which gloves do i wear" 19:37:56 can you offer some general guidelines 19:37:58 ke4qqq: not with flaming blog posts 19:38:08 ke4qqq, but generally corrections are best made by direct email if possible 19:38:22 but comments are fine so long as the correction is polite 19:38:40 Allow the author to post the update/correction, rather than calling them out in public. 19:38:48 so "hey, I notice you said that Fedora ships $foo under $license, actually it switched licenses with this last release." 19:38:50 is OK 19:39:17 questioning their ethics or professional abilities for fact-checking are not :-) 19:39:32 I always try to end with "Thank you for writing about ____" as well, because we should also remember this person is taking the time to put the Fedora name in the spotlight. Even when it's not flattering there's still arguably some value in that, especially if we have the opportunity to correct or build a better relationship with that person as a result. 19:39:39 sorry, guys i was late. been reading comments for the past 10 19:39:46 I would also refrain from the "but what about $bar" posts. 19:39:52 unless strictly relevant 19:40:15 for instance 19:40:30 if somebody reviews Ubuntu 10.04 and says "hey, great, Ubuntu has feature Y" 19:40:46 it's probably not helpful to the cause to say "Yeah, but Fedora had that in F6" 19:40:54 not that anyone would ever do that :-) 19:41:02 stickster, +1 19:41:18 that brings me to another point 19:41:28 if somebody writes something about Fedora 19:41:36 driving traffic to the site is always welcome 19:41:37 jzb: the rub there comes when it is a New feature to Linux everywhere that Ubuntu is gracing the world with 19:41:49 + helps ensure there will be follow-ups 19:41:50 that Fedora has had for 6 releases 19:41:54 jzb: makes people want to write about fedora again 19:42:12 Editors + publishers look closely at traffic and somewhat closely at comments 19:42:26 if I write a story for some publication + it gets 2x traffic 19:42:39 and 50 "yay! I loved this thanks for writing about Fedora" comments? 19:42:45 the editor is usually going to want more 19:42:51 rbergeron, right 19:42:56 jzb: where is the best place to draw the line between... journalists and glorified bloggers 19:43:02 in terms of who should we be reaching out to 19:43:04 rbergeron, traffic :-) 19:43:15 figure out who the influencers are 19:43:43 stickster, are there any mechanisms to see which reviews drive traffic to the site or downloads? 19:44:06 jzb: Yes, through referrer URLs in our http logs I would hazard a guess 19:44:11 isn't that traffic driving really artificial though? you're just reinforcing the fanboys instead of showing that you reached anyone new 19:44:40 dberkholz, when I say traffic driving, I'm talking about through newsletters, social media, etc. 19:44:50 dberkholz, and to some extent, probably 19:45:18 dberkholz, but what I'm really talking about is helping do some of the reaching new users with the content, if that makes sense 19:45:42 if there's a good review of Fedora + I post it on Twitter, Identi.ca + FB 19:45:52 some of the loyal fan base will see it + look 19:46:01 but also a bunch of my followers / friends who aren't familiar with it. 19:46:11 I assume most of you have friends who are not Linux users yet? 19:46:25 jzb: Only one or two, :P 19:46:49 jzb: most aren't, but they all know what it is :) 19:46:50 Oh, I mean - are actual Linux users! 19:46:53 we have friends? 19:47:01 rbergeron: +1 19:47:03 makfinsky, my FB account has about 50 high school friends who aren't usually exposed to Linux 19:47:06 EvilBob, I was wondering the same :) 19:47:10 EvilBob: +1 :) 19:47:17 so if they read about Fedora + pass on to one user... 19:47:31 but they all see my #fedora this and #foss htat - even if it's just impressions 19:47:32 If I may interject, even if its fanboy driven traffic, its still good, because you want your fan base to read this stuff as well because it helps them to better communicate to their own followers the benefits of the product they love by reading how others are saying things. 19:47:49 at some point - someone might say linux - and they might say, oh, yeah, Fedora. 19:47:55 rbergeron, think of it as awareness advertising 19:48:06 * rbergeron nods 19:48:11 you don't want someone to have not heard of Fedora when they're finally ready to try Linux :-) 19:48:18 exactly 19:48:19 or they may even pass it on to someone else 19:48:40 "hey, my daughter was talking about Linux..." "Yeah? My son linked to this thing on FB about Fedora. She should try that." 19:49:26 Also there is value in repetition. 19:49:27 We're getting near the end of the session 19:49:31 any other questions? 19:49:38 Saw this earlier in that regard: http://darkmattermatters.com/2010/04/27/brand-positioning-tip-10-repetition-is-the-secret-ingredient/ 19:49:39 I think the broad points have been made + received 19:49:49 ah, cdgrams :) 19:50:03 basically -> make contact with journalists + try to build relationships w/ them 19:50:19 -> provide the highlights + resources they need 19:50:26 -> answer their questions 19:50:34 * inode0 has been distracted by work but to what extent should Fedora cultivate its own journalists? 19:50:35 -> Correct gently if necessary 19:50:48 inode0, how do you mean? 19:51:13 have contributors who are also writers 19:51:19 I've been told I should write article for LJ and such. Should fedora encourage contributors to do the same? 19:51:23 inode0: +1 19:51:33 does that cross a line of objectivity? 19:51:36 mafinsky: yes yes yes on magazines. 19:51:46 the virt guys have been doing awesome magazine articles about their features 19:51:50 what they do, how to use them 19:52:02 rbergeron: I saw that in FWN. 19:52:03 just as i'd love to see them all at conferences talking about their features 19:52:07 * mchua wonders - a lot of this seems geared towards getting users. how do we make the same strategies grow our contributor base, too? 19:52:28 inode0, at the risk of encouraging competition 19:52:32 mchua: I think contributors are a subset of the user base, yes? 19:52:48 inode0, makfinsky I would encourage contributors to write for anybody they can 19:52:57 it's always good to have SMEs contribute articles 19:53:05 I know lwnjake is always looking for good articles :-) 19:53:17 yup, jake@lwn.net 19:53:27 rbergeron, +1 19:53:29 makfinsky: Usually, indeed. But how do we help journalists point towards "yay, contribute to Fedora!" opportunies as well as "yay, use Fedora!" ones? 19:53:54 I think it's one of the unique things about open source, really - that you can get involved, it's not just cool stuff that's coming out, it's cool stuff *you* can help with. 19:54:00 mchua, they need to be users first 19:54:03 and that the next time something's announced, you could point to it and say "hey, I did that!" 19:54:07 * mchua nods 19:54:08 mchua, I am picking up what you're laying down 19:54:12 * mchua just doesn't want it to stop there ;) 19:54:19 that seems related to the target audience of the publication 19:54:20 mchua: That sounds like an article in itself - contibutors, ambassadors, etc. 19:54:21 mchua, but contributions are *generally 19:54:30 mchua, a bit beyond most of the publications 19:54:40 i think - at least if i were a journalist - i'd see the "pointing to how to contribute" as an endorsement of the product 19:54:40 mchua, now, some publications are geared for that 19:54:43 LWN, Linux.com, etc. 19:54:46 which is something you'd probably want to shy away from 19:54:50 "A place you can make a difference"? 19:54:52 rbergeron, nah 19:54:57 really? 19:54:58 rbergeron, If you wrote about the Red Cross 19:55:09 you could mention "here's how to help" without crossing the line 19:55:12 to endorsing 19:55:18 it's a volunteer driven organization 19:55:20 this is true 19:55:25 so mentioning how to step up is kosher 19:55:38 do you ever do it? :) 19:55:43 users are the low hanging fruit 19:55:44 if so, why - or why not :) 19:55:46 but recognize that ppl don't always see FOSS projects in the same light, so an explanatory point is worth it. 19:55:46 rbergeron, me? Yes 19:55:50 if it seems appropriate 19:55:55 "Since these projects are volunteer driven, you can help by ..." 19:55:57 I will write posts about how to contribute to projects 19:56:06 or tag on "here's how to help" 19:56:18 last think I'd like to mention 19:56:24 don't be stuck with the release cycle 19:56:34 releases are only one opportunity to reach out 19:56:41 but look for other news to reach out with 19:56:53 otherwise it's only press time for Fedora 2x a year 19:56:59 and less often for other projects 19:57:24 * rbergeron would like to have more than 4 months a year of articles / things to highlight / content we're creating and showing to press, fo sho 19:57:32 I hope this was at least a bit helpful. Any last questions? 19:58:14 yes 19:58:15 Any good suggestions for technical copy editors? I can write, not well. 19:58:39 jzb: i think thirtythree asked a question, maybe i missed the answer? jzb: is there somewhere we should not "waste our time" im thinking WSJ NYT etc. 19:58:40 makfinsky, shaunmc 19:58:53 makfinsky, other folks - try checking with FLOSS Manuals and other projects 19:59:05 * inode0 thinks this was very nice of jzb and thanks him a lot for running the session 19:59:11 jzb: Thnx! 19:59:11 yes, thank you! 19:59:15 gbinns, ah - yes 19:59:17 makfinsky: also you could try docs - they have some mean grammarians 19:59:21 gbinns, take the long shots 19:59:24 jzb: Thank you for holding this class. It's great to see someone with a background in both sides of the lawn teaching what they know. 19:59:26 jzb, it is helpful. Thanks. Any book suggestions you have for writing-better ? 19:59:28 gbinns, don't waste much time 19:59:37 gbinns, but take 'em 19:59:40 thanks jzb 19:59:45 jzb, that is, apart from read-a-lot 19:59:54 psankar, Sun's Read Me 1st 20:00:00 for technical writing 20:00:05 jzb: awesome 20:00:08 thanks everybody - this was fun! 20:00:12 * mchua cheers 20:00:15 thanks jzb . /me googles 20:00:15 jzb: thanks for being here today 20:00:19 Great class today Joe, Thank you. 20:00:26 thx jzb 20:00:29 * gbraad_mobile cheers 20:00:31 Thanks to Fedora for this nice opportunity 20:00:33 always something new to learn.. 20:00:46 * mchua waits a minute for the applause and cheering before wrapping up today's logs :) 20:00:57 * inode0 starts a wave 20:01:01 * goeran joins hte applause 20:01:01 :-) 20:01:02 * gbinns applauds 20:01:09 * bertux applauds too 20:01:13 threethirty: sorry, i meant threethirty, not thirtythree :) 20:01:14 Thanks Joe 20:01:25 * saigkill applauds 20:01:36 gbinns: no wuckers 20:02:03 We'll be talking about this classroom session and what we want to do about in Fedora Marketing during the Marketing meeting. 20:02:11 Which is in #fedora-meeting-1, starting... now, in fact. ;) 20:02:13 20:02:35 jzb, Much of what you have discussed is something many projects could benefit from. I hope more projects are receptive to you giving talks like this in their areas and broadening all of our collective understanding of working with folks like you 20:02:54 * mchua will leave the logger running for another 5m to catch afterdiscussion, and see where we are then. 20:03:00 people from all projects were welcome to attend this one :) 20:03:03 BryenY, thanks - I'd like to see Fedora + openSUSE doing some of these together 20:03:12 inode0, and all of them, I hope :-) 20:03:19 yes 20:03:54 jzb: were you pointing makfinsky at me? 20:04:27 shaunm: I think he did. 20:04:30 shaunm, no, shaunmc 20:04:31 jzb, Absolutely. There was an attempt to get fedora and openSUSE together on these classrooms, but somehow communication got dropped way back when. Who coordinates Fedora-classroom now? 20:04:35 I think that's his username 20:04:42 Ah, wrong shaunm*. :) 20:05:39 oh, ok. odd that there's somebody with such a close username to mine 20:05:56 << unique nick :-D 20:07:17 OK, off on some deadlines - will blog about this later + feel free to ping me w/questions 20:07:20 jzb@zonker.net 20:07:49 will do, thanks again 20:08:04 thanks much everybody! 20:08:42 BryenY, I think nirik does 20:08:42 BryenY, actually any fedora member can edit the wiki for the classroom 20:09:03 the classroom was niriks idea 20:09:50 BryenY, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom 20:09:51 #endmeeting