19:01:43 #startmeeting 19:01:43 Meeting started Tue Dec 14 19:01:43 2010 UTC. The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:43 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:01:46 #topic roll call 19:01:48 who's about? 19:01:58 * schendje waves 19:01:58 o/ 19:02:03 * nicubunu here 19:02:05 yay 19:02:56 hey Emichan_ 19:03:03 * t2hot here 19:03:16 hi mizmo! :) 19:03:39 okay lets get started we have critical mass! 19:03:41 #topic Fedora 15 supplemental wallpaper submissions - how are we doing? 19:03:46 its a good question cuz i have no idea :) let's look 19:03:56 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork_Supplemental_Wallpapers_Submissions 19:04:01 we have a page and a few uploads 19:04:06 no new submissions since last week though 19:04:13 i wonder if we should advertise 19:04:24 like send messages to FLOSS-affiliated deviant art teams 19:04:35 and prominent CC & FLOSS-friendly phototogs on flickr 19:04:57 ill send an identi.ca nag now hehe 19:05:16 last release we had a healthy amount of photos without much advertising 19:05:21 howdy everyone 19:05:31 * jimmac is fashionably late 19:05:55 well 19:06:04 true 19:06:06 maybe not needed 19:06:12 hey jimmac 19:06:22 okay so we're doing pretty good on the supplemental wallpaper front 19:06:33 #topic FUDcon Tempe T-shirt design status update 19:06:41 Emichan_ and I just got an email from Robyn this morning 19:06:49 Robyn has been in contact with a tshirt screenprinter in Tempe 19:07:09 #link http://www.brandxstore.com/ 19:07:31 it takes them 8 business days to turn around an hour 19:07:36 er 19:07:39 s/hour/order 19:07:56 Emichan_, what do you think? 19:08:51 sorry - i'm distracted :P 19:08:58 its all good 19:09:06 we could come back to it 19:09:08 it seems reasonable to me, but I don't print loads of shirts very often so... 19:09:36 it's okay, just fail at multitasking - phone is off now :) 19:09:39 lol 19:09:54 do you have any new mockups? or do you think go with the first dea? 19:10:03 they're looking for some kind of comp to give Robyn a quote 19:10:33 i think my second idea is not working out and will be too complicated for a t-shirt anyway, so if everyone's okay with it, let's use the first idea! 19:10:44 I like it, anyway... 19:10:51 Emichan_: i'm cool with that, it looks great 19:10:53 i *love* it 19:10:58 what was the second idea? 19:11:00 we may need to make some adjustments to the logo and such 19:11:55 my guess is the t shirt folks are looking to see, the t-shirt background, number of inks needed, professionalism of the design (e.g., is it low-res MS word clipart or easy-to-work with nicely done stuff, we've got the latter :) ) 19:12:03 my second idea was to do a block print-style desert landscape. 19:12:12 Emichan_, would you mind sending Robyn your favorite comp to pass on to brandx? 19:12:28 mizmo - no problem :) 19:12:30 yay 19:12:43 #action Emichan to send comp to Robyn for BrandX tshirt quote 19:12:43 kk 19:12:46 next topic 19:12:48 #topic Fedora RPG 19:12:49 so 19:12:53 i haven't made any progress on this 19:12:57 last week we hadn't made any progress 19:13:03 me neither 19:13:09 me neither :/ 19:13:10 but i got a special request to do some more mockups for it by my manager :) 19:13:13 in time for fudcon tempe 19:13:28 so i'll probably put some time into it maybe the first or second week of Jan 19:13:33 so thats my little update there 19:13:52 if anybody wants to work on it with me 19:14:05 ill probably give a shout on the mailing list the beginning of january 19:14:09 and set up shop in here 19:14:20 sound good? 19:14:25 sounds good - after the holidays ++ 19:14:29 ok 19:14:32 yay 19:14:35 okay so the next topic 19:14:39 Yeah after the holidays would be great 19:14:42 #topic F15 wallpaper sketch session :) 19:15:00 okay so first i want to tell you something 19:15:14 so we're going to be doing a wallpaper for Fedora 15 19:15:28 but, we have GNOME 3 as pretty much our most prominent Fedora 15 feature 19:15:46 and remember i had an action item to talk to those folks about what would make a good wallpaper to work with the shell 19:15:51 cuz it's going to be the default for F15 19:16:00 well, i got a special request from them 19:16:28 they would like the wallpaper for the gnome desktop in Fedora 15 to be the upstream GNOME wallpaper.... for F15 only, as sort of a special-edition / celebrating the first distro release of GNOME 3 19:16:34 what do you think about the request? 19:16:58 they have a challenge in that they would like to set a recognizable GNOME visual style 19:16:59 i am highly against it 19:17:08 but its hard to do that when distros have distro-specific wallpapers 19:17:11 but... but.... steampunk robots in love... 19:17:27 we can still do that, but it would be on the DVD and the spins 19:17:53 so the shell alone wouldn't be recognizable enough? 19:17:59 the place where nobody is looking at 19:18:10 whatever design we come up with too will be featured on fedoraproject.org, in the bootup splashes, in the paper materials (the disc sleeves, flyers, etc.) 19:18:21 well to be fair the DVD download is pretty popular :) 19:18:28 so i wouldn't say nobody is looking at it 19:18:31 that's part of the ongoing move of the desktop guys to kill our team 19:18:49 schendje, well it's a really big deal for the GNOME 3 team, because we are going to be the first distro to ship GNOME 3 by default 19:18:53 ... DVDs not popular here 19:19:17 schendje, it's basically going to be the very first consumable release of GNOME 3 as a complete OS 19:19:37 schendje, so just for this grand opening release, they thought having the gnome upstream wallpaper would be nice to kind of complete the whole picture 19:20:01 and it will NOT be blue? 19:20:09 nicubunu, i dont think so, the thing that is different now than what has happened before is that as part of my full-time job at red hat, i keep this team running 19:20:28 nicubunu, having the design team for Fedora is really important enough that i'm paid to make sure it's going 19:20:38 mizmo, is it the vertical striped wp that's part of the current g-s mockups? 19:20:59 nicubunu, and owen and jon were very friendly in reaching out and asking what we think about it. if there was any ill-will here they could have not let us know this far ahead of time and slipped it in last-minute. i think they are trying to do the right thing here 19:21:08 nicubunu, it is actually blue, jimmac designed it, it's pretty nice 19:21:09 one sec 19:21:17 http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/plain/themes/Adwaita/backgrounds/stripes.jpg 19:21:21 inkscape-created i'm sure 19:21:26 mizmo: yeah i see where they're coming from, and I also don't have anything against the wallpaper itself (i quite like it) but it's still scary 19:21:44 it's a gorgeous wallpaper 19:21:59 owen made it pretty clear this would just be a one-time thing 19:22:05 so visually, fedora 15 will look exactly like standard gnome? 19:22:10 the thing is, a lot of people who have never used fedora before are going to be trying out Fedora 15 to see GNOME 3 19:22:32 schendje, the desktop, yeah... but the various splashes are still going to be fedora 19:22:39 e.g., the anaconda artwork, the firstboot artwork, etc 19:22:54 when people boot it up, the first thing they are gonna see with the live media is the fedora syslinux 19:23:16 also 19:23:27 we can of course include the default wallpaper we design for the other spins in the background capplet by default 19:23:36 in Fedora 14 we shipped supplemental wallpapers as an extra package, right? 19:23:40 hmmm that will be weird, no? then you might as well put the gnome 3 wallpaper *everywhere* instead of switching 19:23:44 yes 19:23:47 we'll make sure for F15 that the wallpaper we create will be installed by default 19:23:58 schendje, well the problem with putting the gnome 3 wallpaper everywhere 19:24:05 is that they are trying to build a recognizable visual identity for GNOME 19:24:21 if you use the GNOME wallpaper with KDE by default, it sorts of breaks that bond 19:24:30 Its a technical holiday for us then 19:24:32 if is not shown by default... nobody will really be interested to work on it 19:24:38 mizmo: ah, like that 19:24:47 t2hot, not exactly, we still have lots of splashes to design, and we also hae to design a default for all the other spins 19:25:11 nicubunu, if folks don't want to work on it, i can take care of it for f15 - i understand it's a lot less sexy if it's not in the default downlad 19:25:31 but this is a community process so i want everyone to have the opportunity if they are interested, less sexy or not 19:26:04 unrelated to the issue of F15 at hand I think you guys are making it hard on yourself to theme the default fedora wallpaper per release name 19:26:12 schendje, yeh its one of those things where gnome users, like the wider general linux community, are fractured into 0.01% of the population - if gnome is recognizable across distros maybe free desktops will get more recognition 19:26:18 a good wallpaper matures by iteration 19:26:30 and you are limiting the time you have for it to a really limited time 19:26:43 jimmac, but it's more fun to do new ones! 19:27:04 the way I would go about that is to define some basic rules of thumb for a default 19:27:20 lack of contrast, abstract enough not to have negative connotations .. that sort of thing 19:27:22 there *are* such rules 19:27:34 yes, we have them documented on the wiki 19:28:00 yea, but you go about figuring out a good symbolism for a release name 19:28:02 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork_Supplemental_Wallpapers_Submissions#Some_Guidelines 19:28:53 the thing is though, if we say only do a new wallpaper every 2nd or 3rd release, i don't think it frees up time for folks to work on other things 19:28:54 it's short lived 19:28:55 hmm i'm not so much worried about the F15 wallpaper (i don't mind if it becomes the GNOME one), but more about the future of Fedora releases and the design team 19:29:04 you can't build on top of it for the next release 19:29:14 because a lot of people are interested in designing wallpapers, and making it so they can't as often doesn't translate into them working on other tasks or iterating the current one 19:29:53 that being said i would like it if we worked on more things than just the artwork, but we have been making good progress doing broader design work and UI work 19:29:54 yea, sadly 19:30:25 I guess a wallpaper is the designer equivalent of a twitter or irc client 19:30:27 i think our users really like getting a new wallpaper each release 19:31:32 jimmac: heh i like that :) 19:31:40 it might be different if say odd fedora releases were more devel oriented and even were more user focusedor something, then every other release would work 19:31:51 a new one in the devel, then polish it more for the next even release 19:32:22 what do folks think? would you want to consider doing every other release wallpaper or do every release? 19:32:59 I say we keep doing it every release - I personally like having a fresh looking desktop on a new installation. 19:33:19 +1 19:33:48 if the gnome 3 folks decide they want to use the upstream wallpaper for F15, are we still interested in doing a wallpaper for the rest of the Fedora spins? 19:33:59 me not 19:34:35 I'd still be interested in doing a wallpaper. 19:34:46 Emichan_++ me too :) 19:34:59 I've always thought wallpapers cut across spins 19:35:01 Yeah I would be 19:35:24 I'd rather we use our own wallpaper as default, but I don't have super-strong feelings about it... 19:35:54 hm 19:35:59 i dont know if its possible 19:36:13 but what if our wallpaper was default if you opt out of gnome 3 and load up gnome 2 on the default download? 19:36:15 would that make sense? 19:36:52 that seems like a good compromise 19:36:58 also note, it's not 100% guaranteed that gnome 3 will make f15 as default... it's going to be up to fesco a few weeks before release, they may decide it's not ready. (while it's less likely to happen in f15 as it did in f14, there is still a possibility) 19:37:01 Would have been nice if upstream floated this idea before arriving at the design ... could get a variation of this concept that will satisfy all parties 19:37:17 no, it will break consistency with things like GDM background 19:37:20 t2hot, i dont know if they thought about it until now 19:37:43 t2hot, and to be fair, we just released F14 so it's not super last minute 19:37:54 we haven't even hit alpha for f15 yet 19:38:00 at first I thought 'they could've brought that up earlier' but, really, we have hardly started work on the wallpaper yet 19:38:07 exactly 19:38:22 that was my first reaction, then i looked at the calendar and was like, huh maybe not 19:38:26 realistically, wallpapers are highly visible, but also like the easiest thing for users to change on their desktop, so I don't think we should agonize over it too much. 19:38:31 bye schendje 19:38:31 and im very deeply appreciative that they came to us 19:38:43 schendje_ has an evil twin! 19:38:47 >=) 19:39:25 i would like to look at this as an exceptional thing, something maybe to give a little more visibility to one of our upstreams 19:39:25 so what's this gnome 2 stuff? is that *another* option, besides gnome 3 and kde? 19:39:35 or is it if you shut down gnome-shell? 19:39:43 or the fallback? 19:39:47 schendje_, gnome 2 is what we have by default now in f14 19:39:53 i think it'll be the fallback if your video card can't do gnome 3 19:40:00 mizmo: yeah i know that :) 19:40:01 schendje_: thanks $DEITY, we who do not like gnome shell will still be able to use the panel 19:40:01 Ok .. could the strip concept be adjusted/modified .... at least get the fedora-design team touch? 19:40:03 and i think you can also set it as a fall back if you're not ready for gnome 3 yet 19:40:21 i see 19:40:30 t2hot, i'm not sure, i think that should be up to jimmac 19:40:46 if the new wallpaper belongs to gnome 3, i don't think it makes sense to use it with gnome 2 *also*, right? 19:40:55 so we could use our "own" image there 19:41:18 schendje_, yeh i think that would be reasonable to propose 19:41:27 i think the idea of using it as default in g2 makes sense too, but is it possible? 19:41:29 i don't know what the gnome design team was planning for that? 19:41:51 i think the gnome 3 wallpaper is meant to be used wtih gnome 3, and doesn't necessarily have any gnome 2 association 19:41:59 so i think if we made our wallpaper default with gnome 2, it would be okay 19:42:09 technically i dont know if it's possible to configure like that bu ti can certainly ask 19:42:25 t2hot: I don't see a problem of derivates from the wallpaper 19:42:38 t2hot: I have the xcf handy for those who wish to play with it 19:42:42 jimmac, if a derivative was used by default would it be okay? 19:43:16 I've been thinking of what would be the fedora touch on that 19:43:21 but didn't get anywhere 19:43:33 usually the fedora touch is blue hehe but it's already blue 19:43:42 I see the issue form both sides 19:43:48 we don't want to half-ass it and screw it up :) 19:43:49 was thinking in the line of texture and not colour 19:43:51 and agree with both parties :) 19:43:53 we tend to have a lot of space themes too 19:44:03 i'm in the same boat jimmac 19:44:18 we can merge it with our own design and create a horrible mutant hybrid - or an AWESOME mutant hybrid - but we won't know until we try hehe 19:44:28 i think it is good to help out an upstream, kind of visibly showing what we already know about fedora being a strong supporter of its upstreams 19:44:36 steampunk stripes hehe 19:44:46 striped steampunk robot love o_O 19:44:47 if fedora uses it, won't it be seen as a fedora wallpaper? 19:44:49 it could work 19:44:53 could still have the stripes ... maybe not same frequency, with wood grains underneath ... like a Gnome wood house thing .... just thinking 19:45:35 maybe if there was some way to define parameters within which each distro could customize it but at the same time it would have a recognizable look 19:45:37 smurf wood paneling? 19:45:41 bwahhaa 19:45:47 fa la lalalala 19:45:59 t2hot: http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design/blobs/master/wallpaper/stripes.xcf.bz2 is the file 19:46:02 hmmm 19:46:21 #link http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design/blobs/master/wallpaper/stripes.xcf.bz2 19:46:26 jimmac, cool 19:46:38 actually, there seems to be a cap on the direct http download 19:46:46 so you might need to clone the whole repo :/ 19:46:54 gitorious fail 19:47:04 jimmac: can i put it up on my fpo space? 19:47:09 i can try to get the xcf uploaded to the design team shared drive on fpo 19:47:11 schendje_: sure 19:47:14 or, that 19:47:32 I don't like the idea, sry 19:48:02 if I'm getting this right (which I hope don't) you''re saying to not use a wallpaper made by the fedora design team 19:48:18 tatica, only for the desktop spin (which is unfortunately also the default download) 19:48:24 #link http://schendje.fedorapeople.org/gnome3wall/stripes.xcf.bz2 (1.8M) 19:48:29 and only for gnome 3, we might be able to set our wallpaper in gnome 2 19:48:39 is even worst, is the first face of fedora that our users will see 19:48:50 tatica - also only for f15 as a special thing heralding the release of g3 19:49:15 we can do something special for g3, and g3 can do something special we can have in our repo 19:49:27 it's a special edition thing to help them out since it's their very first OS release 19:49:29 but the face of fedora must be a fedora based thing 19:49:38 is not, why we encourage people to join the design team? 19:49:40 all the artwork leading up to it will still be fedora though 19:49:59 we could use our wallpaper in the screenshots on the website etc as well 19:50:07 luckily it's a good wallpaper and it fits relatively well with the rest of Fedora artwork 19:50:12 mizmo: is that a good plan though? 19:50:19 to put it everywhere, except on the actual desktop 19:50:22 * jsmith is still in the air about it 19:50:27 (well, the prime desktop anyway) 19:50:55 #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Misc/GNOME/stripes.xcf.bz2 (might be easier if you have the design team share mounted to your computer) 19:51:12 schendje_, our hands are tied on that - we can't use it for non gnome spins 19:51:21 it defeats the purpose unfortunately :( 19:51:25 oh yeah i see that 19:51:35 but i mean - those are screenshots from the gnome version, right? 19:51:44 i mean ive done similar things for example for the red hat summit, i create red hat summit specific wallpapers for special edition fedora spins 19:51:50 and they won't have the same wallpaper as the actual desktop? 19:51:55 it's still promoting fedora, but it links it to the event 19:52:09 what about dvd and cd covers for instance, which will those use? 19:52:31 schendje_, it's just an option we can explore, we don't need to do it, or we could use all different wallpapers in the screenshot selected from our supplemental pack as well. like Emichan_ said, the wallpapers are frequently changed by users 19:52:42 i think the dvd/cd covers definitely should use the artwork we produce 19:53:07 I think fedora should use the artwork that the team produce 19:53:09 i think the goal here coming from the gnome 3 team is visual recognizability of the desktop itself, so the dvd/cd cover shouldn't be an issue 19:53:14 and we can contribute to other projects 19:53:33 and we do it, but have a based wallpaper on a development... I don't think so 19:53:41 so we should do a wallpaper for each app we support 19:53:46 tatica, this is what they asked of us though 19:53:47 i maintain my position of being *strongly* against 19:53:55 tatica, what they are looking for is desktop recognizability 19:53:59 the wallpaper itself is not bad 19:54:06 everyone knows windows because of the wallpaper, eg the rolling green hills and blue sky in XP 19:54:16 and everyone knows Mac because of the space auroras / the purplely and blue 19:54:20 the desktop itself is recognizable 19:54:23 but nobody knows GNOME because each distro does their own thing 19:54:31 no, everyone know mac for the color pattern and the lower menu bar 19:54:32 if im sitting at a coffee shop behind a GNOME user i might not have any idea 19:54:45 that's good, gnome is not the end of the world, is just a DE 19:54:46 this is some of the thinking behind the request, anyway 19:54:54 I'm finding the idea of doing a slightly altered (but recognizable) version of the g3 wp intriguing 19:54:55 but we also can't make every gnome distro look the same 19:55:10 what I think is that this could be a mail list topic 19:55:20 like I said 19:55:35 the wallpaper is not bad (as a base, cause we havent yet finish the proposal period) 19:55:36 This is hard 19:55:54 and to contribute all (g3 team and fedora art team) would be awesome 19:56:15 but what I don't support is to use a 3rd party wallpaper without ask for help or work with the team that has been contributing 19:56:18 tatica, if we design something though it doesn't help, because they want something that is GNOME distinctive. when we design something it is for ALL spins, so GNOME can't be distinctive in this case 19:56:33 tatica, but jimmac is right here, and he's been to a bunch of our meetings now and has been talking with us about it, he designed it 19:56:37 tatica, it's a gimp file 19:56:48 tatica, it's not like for example, some person we don't know was hired to do something using photoshop or something like that 19:57:07 * t2hot seconding tactica 19:57:20 he also said it would be okay if we work with his source file to put some fedora touch on it 19:57:26 that prior information is important 19:57:30 so, jimmac should know that he can send the artwork for the team (as he part of the team) to improove it 19:57:36 like we do in all the releases 19:57:37 right? 19:57:45 so i mean, it's not a 3rd party forcing something on else without asking for help or to work with us, they do want to work with us and have asked us for help 19:58:02 the problem they are looking to solve is for GNOME 3's grand opening release to have a distinctive wallpaper 19:58:08 different from the other spins 19:58:27 then we can take the jimmac idea and propose a wallpaper for their release 19:58:36 tatica, so we'll design two wallpapers? 19:58:43 no, design one together 19:58:46 one for gnome using jimmac's proposal, and one for the other spins? 19:58:57 mizmo - two wallpapers++ 19:58:59 tatica, the problem is that gnome needs a distinctive wallpaper 19:59:11 well, we can use the same base and do 2 mockups 19:59:19 they don't really need it, just want it 19:59:24 but we have use since 6 (when I start at the team) the same wallpaper 19:59:32 what I'm against is to lose our identity 19:59:36 well, to achieve their goal of a distinctive look it is needed i think nicubunu 19:59:39 how our users will recognice fedora then? 19:59:42 tatica, exactly, im very much against that too 19:59:50 they will recognice gnome... not fedora 19:59:52 i don't think the problem lies in that the wallpaper is or is not a community developed artwork 19:59:53 it is 20:00:06 i'm not teh sole author of it 20:00:07 tatica, which is why jimmac has offered to let us work with the source file and see if we can make it more fedora. it is already a fedora blue color 20:00:14 hylke has worked on it 20:00:15 jimmac: the problem lies in that if we use a wallpaper for an app, all distros will have the same wallpaper 20:00:27 and for years, the fedora artwork has been outstanding and awesome 20:00:33 being a huge diference from other distros 20:00:41 jimmac, community isn't the issue from that pov, it's fedora community 20:00:43 the issue is that fedora project sees fedora as the center of the universe and it would be hard to argue here that it isn't 20:00:56 so if we are going to use the same wallpaper that ubuntu-gnome, debian-gnome, whatever-gnome we won't be different at all 20:01:00 because it is the center of our universe 20:01:00 o_O 20:01:01 similarly for the gnome community, gnome is the center of the universe 20:01:04 gnome can't be the center of the universe for fedora 20:01:16 it's too diverse 20:01:16 jimmac: you should take this as an advice, not a theat 20:01:22 we are ofering our team to help 20:01:33 what we don't want is to lose the work we have done for years 20:02:04 you can be certain in no way this is being considered as a threat 20:02:05 and if we don't think in colaboration, there is no community at all 20:02:22 fedora takes months to decide a wallpaper using what new and old users suggest 20:02:24 and I am a person who has been part of overlapping communities for ages 20:02:45 jimmac: me too, but you should know that this is not because we don't want to help or be part of gnome 20:02:48 We're moving in circles here 20:02:56 is just that we have been working for years hard to be outstanding 20:02:58 yes 20:03:14 branding has always worked against inter-community cooperation. icons have been a prime example 20:03:15 well we have a few proposals on the table 20:03:15 maybe we should move this to the mailing list? it's already been an hour... :/ 20:03:20 as I say, I will decline the idea of use the same wallpaper that the others distros will use 20:03:35 but I'm foward to help any community (gnome or any other) to make a great artwork 20:03:36 and I've put a lot of effort in trying to leverage as many possible contributions there 20:03:40 well its the only thing left on our agenda Emichan, besides sketching session although i wasn't sure when we went into this if it made sense any more 20:03:54 jimmac: are you also going to try to get it in other distros? 20:04:04 jimmac: or just fedora because it's the first big release? 20:04:06 Sorry ... I'm not getting this right. Mizmo ... is that wallpaper generic for all distros? 20:04:33 t2hot, i dont now 20:04:35 know 20:04:39 I mean ...fedora, Ubuntu, Arch, Debian .... that doesn't add up 20:04:45 well, even if we're using the g3 wp, we've got to make one of our own for -at least- the non-gnome DEs 20:04:52 t2hot, it won't be ubuntu because ubuntu refuses to use G3 20:05:04 we can do something based on the gnome wallpaper and they can use our wallpaper as an extra 20:05:08 that could be a posibility 20:05:26 or, we can gather all the design teams of other distros and work in a "base proposal" that each one can improove 20:05:32 i worry if we do something based on the gnome wallpaper that it it'll hurt the distinctiveness they are going for 20:05:39 but to use a unique wallpaper, I'm not on that idea 20:05:45 tactica ,,, you mean as the solution and not an extra 20:06:22 mizmo, I think recognizability doesn't necessarily equate with uniqueness 20:06:36 exactly 20:06:47 for example, we all agree to use waves, or stripes 20:06:53 ! 20:06:53 so if we do something, like steampunk stripes 20:06:57 for the other ones 20:07:05 and then G3 uses the plain stripes 20:07:05 or anything you can up; but each distro adds some diference 20:07:08 would that work? 20:07:21 we want coherency across the various spins of fedora, so we use stripes to do that? 20:07:36 * jimmac nods 20:07:54 but will that make the other spins look too gnome-y? 20:08:04 i guess it depends on the treatment 20:08:16 it could be kind of a sly nod to stripes without being overwhelmingly stripes 20:08:18 for example, let me take our design of F14 20:08:26 it has stripes and a bokeh 20:08:33 like, for example (and i dont think we'd ever too this, it's too childish) but if the wallpaper was of a panda, he would wear striped overalls 20:08:40 if we take out the stripes is a complete different wallpaper with the same theme... right? 20:09:04 * jimmac recalls the awesome barcode wallpaper theme at design.ru 20:09:12 that was genius 20:09:25 links jimmac 20:09:55 * jimmac can't find it 20:10:20 I think "blue vertical stripes" is a pretty strong visual theme, and if it's going to be strongly associated with gnome, then it may be inappropriate to use for other spins.. 20:10:50 +1 Emichan 20:10:51 I think we can do a "convertible wallpaper", we are enough creatives to provide a solution to this with artwork 20:10:57 but in this case, stripes = gnome, not stipes = fedora so if you use it on a kde-based fedora it doesn't make sense 20:11:14 (sorry, i thought i sent that already, but i agree with Emichan_ ) 20:11:47 Emichan_: but we can do a based concept like the one that F14 has 20:12:00 stripes + $something (in the actual case, a bokeh) 20:12:16 that's what I said 20:12:53 so we are starting to get to a solution? jimmac what do you think? 20:12:54 Emichan_, schendje_ i think it'd be stripes more as a nod than a central element 20:13:02 i think our central element would be lovelock, and the ideas we had before 20:13:12 and we could kind of slyly integrate stripes into the design somewhere as a nod 20:13:14 well, what I understand mizmo saying is that fedora-gnome3 will have stock gnome3 wallpaper, then the rest of the fedora spins will have a slightly stripe-y wallpaper 20:13:16 or we can perhaps work on a proposal too and you can take ideas also 20:13:44 I think it would be more appropriate to have a lovelock base "fedora" wallpaper, and then alter the g3 wallpaper to make it closer to the fedora wallpaper 20:14:35 so that it's clear that it's still fedora but has a strong visual association with gnome 20:14:39 i think either could work, depending heavily on the treatment 20:15:10