18:10:13 <mizmo> #startmeeting 18:10:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 14 18:10:13 2011 UTC. The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:10:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:10:19 <mizmo> #topic roll call 18:10:35 <t2hot> o/ 18:10:43 * elad661 18:10:50 * jsmith lurks 18:11:04 <mizmo> tatica didn't make it i guess 18:11:16 <mizmo> so maybe we should push off the f16 wallpaper decision (again) 18:11:21 <mizmo> but i don't want it to drag on 18:11:28 <mizmo> what do you guys think? 18:11:42 <elad661> I don't know... 18:11:44 <mizmo> the ultimate deadline is july 26 18:11:49 * t2hot whispers 'tatica went for lunch' 18:11:52 <mizmo> so it's not the end of the world 18:11:59 <mizmo> t2hot, do you know when she left? 18:12:20 <jsmith> mizmo: She was online a couple of hours ago -- probably the crazy sysadmin at her job again, blocking her internet access 18:12:23 <mizmo> my week has been swiss cheese, the ibm repair guy has been in to fix my laptop over and over... i just got it back 18:12:46 <mizmo> maybe we could make a decision on list if she cant be at meetings real time 18:12:49 <mizmo> ill send her an email 18:12:59 <mizmo> maybe since we used to meet on tuesdays, we could start a discussion on-list today 18:13:00 <t2hot> she left about 1:12mins ago 18:13:07 <mizmo> and she could organize it for a decision on tues 18:14:13 <elad661> sounds ok for me 18:14:28 <mizmo> okay cool 18:14:40 <mizmo> #info we'll start a discussion on the default wallpaper decision on list today 18:14:51 <mizmo> #info tatica will organize the decision announcement on tues 18:15:35 <Ryan__> Hello 18:16:08 <mizmo> pcon, are you around? 18:16:32 <Ryan__> Sorry I'm late. 18:16:47 <elad661> Ryan__: it's ok 18:16:56 <Ryan__> Thanks. 18:16:59 <mizmo> well 18:17:04 <mizmo> i think it probably goes without saying :) 18:17:13 <mizmo> we should keep advertising the supplemental wallpaper process so folks know they can submit 18:17:22 <elad661> mizmo: it seems that there were no new supplemental wallpapers submissions at all 18:17:32 <mizmo> elad661, except for yours right :) 18:17:36 <mizmo> i have some, i need to submit them 18:17:47 <elad661> mizmo: mine was there in the f15 page 18:17:48 <kirkB> sorry I'm late 18:17:52 <mizmo> ill send out a identi-twit now on it 18:17:56 <mizmo> its all good, new meeting time 18:18:00 <mizmo> we started late :) 18:18:01 <Ryan__> Can anyone please help me with submitting a supplemental wallpaper? I can't seem to create a Fedora Account System account. 18:18:03 <elad661> so it doesn't count as new 18:18:39 <elad661> Ryan__: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/user/new 18:18:40 <mizmo> Ryan__, can you stick around after the meeting and we'll walk you through it? 18:18:52 <mizmo> have you seen our joining tutorial? 18:18:57 <Ryan__> Okay. I will do that. Thanks. What time does this meeting end? 18:19:10 <mizmo> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_Design_Team 18:19:27 <mizmo> it won't go on any later than 3, maybe end earlier since we've not a full house today (new meeting time) 18:19:55 <Ryan__> Okay. 18:20:13 <elad661> Well even if we don't get new supplemental wallpapers submitted, we still have a lot to chose from 18:20:19 <Ryan__> Did anyone that has seen my "Graphitti" wallpaper like it? 18:20:37 <mizmo> yeh it's true, its no real emergency 18:20:38 <Ryan__> This is so I can make changes if I need to. 18:20:51 * t2hot wonders if Ryan__ == Haks??? 18:21:01 <mizmo> Ryan__, let me look it up really quick, since we're on the supplemental wallpapers topic 18:21:17 <Ryan__> Okay. I just thought this would be a good time to bring it up. 18:21:54 <gnokii> huhu elad661, Ryan__, mizmo and everyone who is awake 18:21:57 <mizmo> is it this one Ryan__? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/attachments/20110709/318f9867/attachment-0003.jpe 18:22:22 <mizmo> would you like a critique? would anybody be opposed to giving ryan a critique right now or do you think it'd better for after the meeting? 18:22:25 <Ryan__> Yes, that is one. The other one has two birds on it. 18:22:29 * t2hot waves at gnokii 18:22:47 <mizmo> okay this is the other http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/attachments/20110709/318f9867/attachment-0002.jpe 18:22:59 <mizmo> Ryan__, which one do you want feedback on? which one do you think is strongest and you'd like to work on the most? 18:23:03 <ixxvil> definitely a no on 18:23:16 <Ryan__> That's the one. I was talking about the second one when I asked. 18:23:20 <mizmo> remember in critiques we try to always have backup for the points we make 18:23:33 <mizmo> so don't just say 'that's great' or 'that's bad' without giving some rationale and tips for improvement 18:23:37 <kirkB> For supplemental I've always thought it was left up to artistic taste ... what kind of feedback are you looking for Ryan? 18:23:40 <mizmo> Ryan__, okay so let's talk about the second on 18:23:47 <Ryan__> Okay. 18:24:22 <Ryan__> I am asking for any type of feedback, good or bad. 18:24:46 <mizmo> can you tell us a bit about your work so we can understand where it's coming from? what kind of feeling do you want folks looking at it to have? 18:25:20 <gnokii> today 222 years ago was the attack on the bastille, begin of french revolution important date 18:25:33 <kirkB> For me when looking at a photo I typically want to have an item of focus, it helps the person focus on something and gives the overall picture "a point" as it were. I think in this photo the birds would be natural places to focus, but the colouring de-emphasizes them, almost hiding them. 18:25:37 <Ryan__> I took this from one of my parent's cameras. They took it at the Nashville Zoo. I just played around with the extensions in Pinta, and I came up with this. 18:26:04 <elad661> I didn't like it, I think it would look better without the color change 18:26:10 <ixxvil> Ryan__: maybe stick to the original color of the photo 18:26:15 <kirkB> So I find the colouring almost distracting, which I suspect wasn't your intention? 18:26:25 <ixxvil> and then modify from there making it look more brighter, softer 18:26:31 <elad661> oh, tatica is here 18:26:32 <gnokii> so is the meeting started? 18:26:35 <mizmo> yeh, i think the subject is great 18:26:40 <Ryan__> I was thinking about taking the same bird photo, and making everything but the two birds black and white. 18:26:42 <elad661> gnokii: yes 18:26:53 <mizmo> birds in nature--it's a good subject. natural subjects in photography wallpaper tend to be very popular 18:27:06 <tatica> I'm back! 18:27:07 <mizmo> wallpaper particularly is tricky though 18:27:20 <Ryan__> That would bring the birds in to focus. 18:27:23 <mizmo> have you had a chance to look at our wallpaper guidelines Ryan? there are a few tips there that i think might help you out 18:27:28 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F16_Artwork/Submissions/Supplemental_Wallpapers 18:27:41 <Ryan__> Okay/ 18:27:46 * tatica reading 18:28:02 <mizmo> you usually want a soft focus, which is one of the points 18:28:05 <t2hot> Ryan__, your work would have been outstanding if you had more noise to the picture 18:28:15 <mizmo> another guideline that might help is "As the name suggests, visually, it should settle into the "background" of the activity scene. " 18:28:40 <Ryan__> Okay. 18:29:10 <Ryan__> I just read the supplemental wallpaper submissions guidelines. 18:29:38 <mizmo> your idea for making the image black and white and only having the birds in color is a good way to guide the viewer's eye to the area of interest 18:29:54 <mizmo> like kirkB mentioned, they are kind of hidden right now with the pinta color effect 18:30:26 <Ryan__> I have done that with a few photos, and it gives the photos a cool effect. 18:30:29 <mizmo> there are some other design tools you could use to pull the focus gently towards the birds, and lower the competition the nature/trees background gives them 18:30:48 <mizmo> for example, you could simulate a camera focus with a soft blur effect on the areas the birds are not in 18:31:10 <mizmo> you could add a vignette around the edges of the graphic so it fades into the background a bit (this can be really powerful with b&w photography) 18:31:13 <Ryan__> Okay. I think I might try that. 18:31:18 * tatica loves some of the photos on that page... but some can be improove 18:31:57 <mizmo> Ryan__, here is an example of one that applies both design 'tricks' - both the focus and the vignette (and it's b&w!) http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldbr0xOGu61qcziavo3_500.jpg 18:32:16 <mizmo> Ryan__, you see how the rocks behind them are totally blurred out, but they are in perfect focus? 18:32:22 <mizmo> normally all those rocks would be high contrast and distracting 18:32:42 <Ryan__> Okay 18:33:17 <Ryan__> That does have a nice effect. 18:33:24 <mizmo> Ryan__, here's a good gimp tutorial that will walk you through a soft focus http://gimpguru.org/tutorials/softportrait/ 18:33:41 <mizmo> (although i think the end result of that tutorial applied it too much ;-) ) 18:33:50 <Ryan__> That's what I need. I have GIMP, but I don't know how to do the soft focus though. 18:34:48 <Ryan__> I know how to do that in Pinta, but not Gimp. This looks like a good tutorial. Thanks for the link, mizmo! 18:34:54 <tatica> can I help with something? I'm still lost but I get that you're talking about photography 18:34:57 <tatica> (right?) 18:35:15 <kirkB> tatica, right 18:35:21 <kirkB> post-processing actually 18:35:35 <Ryan__> I am getting feedback on my supplemental wallpaper. 18:35:44 <elad661> tatica: we are in the middle of the design team meeting, the corrent topic is supplemental wallpapers 18:35:45 <mizmo> Ryan__, it might be better to use gimp just so the rest of us can help you out better 18:36:04 <Ryan__> Yes. 18:36:09 <tatica> oh oh 18:36:21 <tatica> sorry! I'm still slow by lunch :$ 18:36:37 <mizmo> Ryan__, so if you want to get that blurred out effect for stuff in the distance behind the birds, you could try this technique: http://ffaat.pointclark.net/blog/archives/158-A-Better-Fake-Tilt-Shift-with-the-Gimp.html 18:36:45 <Ryan__> Okay 18:36:48 <mizmo> Ryan__, mask the birds out so their focus is unaffected 18:37:08 <mizmo> vignettes are really easy and you can do that automagically using a gimp plugin 18:37:25 <mizmo> Ryan__, have we provided you a good direction here to push your wallpaper further? 18:37:39 <Ryan__> Yes, you have. Thank you. 18:37:58 <mizmo> yay :) 18:38:11 <tatica> if you need more help, I have several videos of tilf 18:38:13 <mizmo> keep us updated on your progress, and please feel welcome to hang out in here and ask questions anytime 18:38:20 <Ryan__> Okay. 18:38:21 <tatica> Ryan__, will catch you up after meeting 18:38:28 <mizmo> tatica has an amazing set of tutorial videos that will be a big help 18:38:32 <Ryan__> Thank you 18:38:36 <mizmo> okay 18:38:47 <mizmo> tatica, do we want to make the f16 decision now then? 18:38:57 <mizmo> we'd talked about doing it on the mailing list because we wanted you to be around for it 18:39:05 * tatica takes a deep breath 18:39:06 <mizmo> but since you're here maybe it's better to discuss it now? 18:39:26 <tatica> yes, let's talk about it and see if we can came up with a decition 18:39:31 <mizmo> okay cool 18:39:34 <tatica> or at least to know "where we are" now 18:39:36 <mizmo> #topic fedora 16 default wallpaper 18:39:47 <tatica> ok 18:39:49 <mizmo> i haven't had any time to work on icebergs since last week 18:40:02 <Ryan__> I have looked over all of the sketches and think they are all good. 18:40:06 <tatica> so we have reduce our list from 3 to 2, ad people is really puting a LOT of effort 18:40:22 <tatica> http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/list == last updates are here, so I would like you to take a quick look 18:40:22 <mizmo> it looks like haks uploaded a new icebergs one http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/80 18:40:51 <tatica> I'm trying to help t2hot with his render, another update here http://www.flickr.com/photos/tatadbb/5936596631/ 18:40:55 <mizmo> this is where the icebergs + nautilus left off http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/75 18:40:57 <Ryan__> That's very nice 18:41:02 <tatica> is not at artboard yet since we are missng the trees right now 18:41:14 <Ryan__> I mean, the iceberg wallpaper is very nice 18:42:02 <mizmo> so do we want to critique each one a bit maybe? 18:42:06 <mizmo> and see where to go from there? 18:42:11 <mizmo> i definitely have some feedback on the castle one 18:42:17 <tatica> I would like to thank a LOT to ixxvil and haks first since they put a LOT of effort on draw this ones 18:42:32 <tatica> and thank a LOT to mizmo and t2hot who have put a lot of time in coloring and give live to them 18:42:48 <tatica> now... lets do it first on the iceberg and then to the castle 18:43:01 <tatica> is that ok? (that way I can do a list of suggestions of each one) 18:43:06 <mizmo> sounds good 18:43:10 <mizmo> so for iceberg we have two 18:43:22 <mizmo> #1 http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/80 18:43:31 <mizmo> #2 http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/75 18:43:35 <mizmo> what do we think about #1? 18:43:52 <t2hot> cool 18:43:56 <mizmo> i love the texture of the icebergs, it's a very interesting pattern 18:44:03 <mizmo> i think the brightness in the upper right is maybe a bit too extreme 18:44:11 <mizmo> but that's easily toned down 18:44:20 <elad661> but where is the connection to verne? 18:44:24 <mizmo> i really like that it is more abstract 18:44:31 <mizmo> elad661, it could be you're 20,000 leagues under the sea, looking up 18:44:35 <tatica> I would increase the blue saturation :$ 18:44:48 <elad661> mizmo: yes, but It's better with the submarine 18:44:57 <Ryan__> I think to make the image warmer, you should make the colors a little bit darker. 18:45:01 <mizmo> so it doesn't tell as much of a story without the submarine 18:45:21 <tatica> but... 18:45:22 <mizmo> if i squint, i see mostly black, a ring of blue, then mostly white 18:45:26 <tatica> we can add some small fish 18:45:27 <mizmo> maybe 70% black 18:45:46 <tatica> so people know that those are ice pieces 18:45:58 <mizmo> it gives me a bit of a strange feeling because of the light - like i died on the bottom of the ocean and im going to heaven o_O 18:46:05 <mizmo> it's... religious? 18:46:21 <tatica> no if we add a bit of color 18:46:28 <t2hot> lolz 18:46:29 <tatica> like some fishs and something like that 18:46:30 <mizmo> icebergs aren't flat on the bottom which makes it harder to identify them 18:46:31 <tatica> small ones 18:46:38 <mizmo> icebergs can go deep into the water 18:46:41 <ixxvil> exactly 18:46:47 <ixxvil> what ive been telling since the beginning 18:46:50 <ixxvil> it isnt flat 18:46:52 <tatica> we can add some 3D look making a copy of the layer and moving it a bit 18:46:55 <tatica> that's easy to solve 18:47:01 <gnokii> btw tatica t2hot did u remember where the icons on default are postioned on ur wallpaper? 18:47:06 <ixxvil> that is a weird angle 18:47:18 <mizmo> but adding depth to the icebergs would, i think, drastically change the image composition. 18:47:18 <ixxvil> but haks didnt change it and kept it as such so.. 18:47:24 * tatica doesn't use icons, but yes 18:47:32 <ixxvil> adding depth would be challenging 18:47:33 <mizmo> and im not sure what it'd look like without seeing it :-/ 18:47:38 <ixxvil> not to mention proper lighting 18:47:41 <ixxvil> else you wont see depth 18:47:46 <mizmo> well as tatica said, adding the depth is easy in blender 18:47:47 <ixxvil> since you're looking straigh p at the iceberg 18:48:05 <mizmo> it is kind of a depressing angle though, like you are in a watery grave 18:48:09 <ixxvil> ye 18:48:10 <mizmo> we did this angle in fedora 9 underwater 18:48:19 <mizmo> it's not a deal-breaker, just something to be aware of to work with 18:48:23 <ixxvil> if tatica can do it, sweet 18:48:30 <mizmo> so overall 18:48:37 <mizmo> i think we like the pattern the icebergs make 18:48:42 <mizmo> the upper right could be toned down 18:48:45 <mizmo> the icebergs need more depth 18:48:52 <mizmo> we should make it more blue / more color 18:48:56 <mizmo> we should add some small fish maybe 18:48:57 <gnokii> I like the small fishes under the submarine 18:49:07 <mizmo> gnokii, we're on this one right now: http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/80 18:49:11 <Ryan__> Yes, the fish idea is a good one. 18:49:25 <ixxvil> 80 needs some major revamping 18:49:28 <mizmo> right now it's all diagonal lines, the fish would cut that a bit and make more interest 18:49:31 <mizmo> okay 18:49:32 <ixxvil> the sunrays are not right 18:49:37 <mizmo> yeh we do have a lot of suggested changes for it 18:49:38 <mizmo> okay 18:49:44 <mizmo> do we want to move on to 75? 18:49:50 <ixxvil> +1 75 18:50:14 <mizmo> okay so iceberg #2 is 75 http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/75 18:50:22 <mizmo> gnokii, this is the one you were commenting on right :) 18:50:26 <ixxvil> the fish idea was the best 18:50:33 <ixxvil> makes it look all the more realistic 18:50:36 <gnokii> yes, can I say something in general? 18:50:40 <mizmo> 75 suffers the same problem of having flat icebergs 18:50:41 <mizmo> gnokii, absolutley 18:50:56 <ixxvil> yeah but we're showing depth with the side rocks and stuff 18:51:09 <ixxvil> maybe we could remove some of the rocks and make it not look like it's sticking to the screen if you know what i mean 18:51:35 <ixxvil> maybe more like the rocks point more towards the angle of the sunlight and 18:51:36 <gnokii> on all wallpaper concepts I miss one thing, I mean we stick only with submarine right now, not what Jule Verne really represent 18:51:39 <Ryan__> I think adding another submarine, but a tiny one, far off, would give the image a nice effect and more distance. 18:51:59 <mizmo> ixxvil, what do you mean stick to the screen? 18:52:05 <ixxvil> right now 18:52:19 <mizmo> Ryan__, yeh more depth would be really good. wallpapers with depth tend to be more pleasant to look at 18:52:28 <gnokii> would be stuck the right word? 18:52:31 <ixxvil> the rocks are flat against the screen of the viewer 18:52:38 <ixxvil> like a reversed L shape 18:52:47 <tatica> gnokii, what does verne represent for you? 18:52:55 <Ryan__> Yeah, maybe the second submarine could be gray and far-distance. 18:53:17 <mizmo> ixxvil, oh thats not the intention there, they haven't really been shaded properly. the idea i had there (not fully realized!) is that you're in an underwater cave and there's a hole in the roof, you're looking up at the sub 18:53:29 <mizmo> ixxvil, maybe it's some underwater ruins 18:53:31 <gnokii> more u had the same opinion he wrote more as captain nemo, there was 80 days arround the world and stuff like that 18:53:35 <ixxvil> let me check it again 18:53:36 <ixxvil> sec 18:53:59 <tatica> gnokii, the wallpaper is based on that story (this one) 18:54:11 <tatica> gnokii, and the castle one is based on The floating island (another book) 18:54:46 <ixxvil> mizmo: oh interesting 18:54:49 <ixxvil> wow that would be tough 18:54:51 <mizmo> maybe we could add some drama to the sub+icebergs by having an octopus tentacle 18:54:56 <ixxvil> you'regoing to add ruins at the bottom? 18:55:00 <mizmo> maybe the octopus tentacle wrapping around 18:55:05 <tatica> I have just a single question 18:55:14 * t2hot "how come I've not seen those books? Africa I suppose 18:55:15 <tatica> we need a wallpaper in 2 weeks... CAN we do all of this? 18:55:15 <mizmo> ixxvil, not sure, it was just an idea there 18:55:24 <tatica> or will be better to finish what we have already? 18:55:34 <mizmo> tatica, do all of what? 18:55:58 <ixxvil> if you need help with ruins i guess t2hot and i can draw some stuff out 18:56:00 <ixxvil> let me know 18:56:04 <ixxvil> s/me/us/ 18:56:04 <tatica> the ruins, a second submarine :S 18:56:12 <ixxvil> no way second sub, too much of work i think 18:56:13 <mizmo> tatica, it's working with what we already have 18:56:18 <mizmo> tatica, ruins is one way i could polish off the rocks 18:56:21 <gnokii> mizmo: not add drama through an octopus, add better some other Jules Verne stuff 18:56:29 <tatica> oh, oka 18:56:38 <mizmo> they have to get polished either way 18:56:44 <tatica> yeap 18:56:56 <mizmo> a second sub, im not sure. but the idea to make the bg deeper is a good one 18:56:57 <ixxvil> a ruined ship would be nice there 18:57:11 <ixxvil> and maybe add a few colored fish too 18:57:15 <mizmo> ixxvil, oooh a ruined ship on the rocks? 18:57:18 <ixxvil> ye 18:57:24 <tatica> well, if the sub was done in a second layer can be copy/pasted 18:57:27 <t2hot> +1 for ruined ship 18:57:41 <mizmo> that would give them a clearer perspective (because right now their perspective is a mess!) 18:57:47 <ixxvil> we could take the jules verne steam ship and modifyit to look like shit at the bottom 18:57:54 <Ryan___> Sorry about that, I accidentally closed the tab. 18:58:00 <mizmo> ixxvil, what about a pirate ship 18:58:02 <tatica> lol, it is 18:58:08 <ixxvil> yeh any kinda ship 18:58:22 <gnokii> I would add air, clouds and an airship 18:58:26 <ixxvil> the iceberg is weird in yours though:P 18:58:35 <ixxvil> but the depth is perfect and everything else 18:58:36 <mizmo> ixxvil, can you do a pencil sketch of a ship ruins for me? 18:58:46 <ixxvil> ok sure t2hot will too 18:58:52 <ixxvil> t2hot: eh? 18:59:02 <mizmo> tatica, everything in that image is layered 18:59:06 <mizmo> :) 18:59:12 * t2hot I dont get it ixxvil 18:59:26 <ixxvil> t2hot: a sketch for a ruined ship 18:59:34 <tatica> mizmo, then is just a +1 18:59:38 <ixxvil> more options dude 18:59:45 <ixxvil> you draw, i draw 18:59:46 <t2hot> oh, no problemo ... will need references though 19:00:16 <ixxvil> i like the cave idea 19:00:24 <ixxvil> i gave tat a reference before for a cave look 19:00:39 <ixxvil> from a cave perspective looking at an iceberg, not sure i still have the link 19:01:09 <mizmo> t2hot, here is a CC reference http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilspicys/2348969927/ 19:01:16 <tatica> I would move the rocks from 75 to an inverted L (I think someone said that before, just going with my huge lag) 19:01:27 <ixxvil> mizmo: thats the one you want sketched? 19:02:05 <mizmo> eres another http://www.flickr.com/photos/73109955@N00/228506069/ 19:02:19 <t2hot> ixxvil, I dont think so 19:02:51 <mizmo> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyg/5727017841/ 19:02:54 <t2hot> almost there 19:02:57 <mizmo> well they are just references ixxvil 19:03:13 <mizmo> ixxvil, but they are all CC-BY so you can feel free to sketch them if you think it's a strong image for a ship wreck 19:03:19 <mizmo> its up to your artistic sensibility 19:03:21 <mizmo> okay so overall 19:03:27 <t2hot> hmm, might borrow elements of that last one 19:03:29 <mizmo> between 80 and 75, what do you folks think is the way to proceed 19:03:34 <t2hot> and add up from the others 19:03:37 <ixxvil> ok 19:03:40 <Ryan___> I think you should add a glow, as in image 64: http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/64 19:03:44 <tatica> 75 19:04:06 <Ryan___> ---a glow to the submarine 19:04:10 <gnokii> mizmo: that one with the submarine otherwise I really question myself where is the connection to Verne 19:04:20 <mizmo> okay so we'll go with 75, and ixxvil and t2hot will sketch out the shipwreck 19:04:35 <mizmo> and i'll work on the rocks positioning and POV and put the shipwreck on them 19:04:42 <tatica> I like the "TRON" Look on the 75 submarine :$ 19:04:53 <ixxvil> oh btw 19:04:54 <ixxvil> forgot 19:05:03 <ixxvil> mizmo: the sub's propellers need to be rounded more 19:05:06 <mizmo> i think the glow on the older version is too intense 19:05:11 <ixxvil> its not a perfect eclipse 19:05:26 <Ryan___> I know, but a little less of a glow would be nice 19:05:29 <ixxvil> when i sketched it i didnt measure of anything 19:05:29 <tatica> elipse? 19:05:45 <ixxvil> oval i mean 19:05:51 <tatica> :P 19:05:52 <mizmo> ixxvil, i actually corrected that 19:06:01 <mizmo> ixxvil, but with the bubbles coming out you can't really tell anyway 19:06:11 <ixxvil> you're adding more bubles later? 19:06:45 <t2hot> it looks like a sky without bubbles :) 19:07:00 <mizmo> ixxvil, no theres bubbles on top of it right now 19:07:05 <t2hot> wish we had caustics too 19:07:12 <ixxvil> can we add mroe shine to the bubble 19:07:25 <mizmo> im not sure 19:07:27 <mizmo> i can play with it and see 19:07:28 <ixxvil> like disinguish each buble maybe, atleast have a few bubles 19:07:30 <ixxvil> ok 19:07:43 <mizmo> it depends how i can tweak the brushes 19:07:51 <mizmo> i used a bubble brush for whats there now 19:07:56 <ixxvil> maybe 8-10 bubbles with a shine and roundedness and the rest could just blur out 19:08:13 <mizmo> ixxvil, ahh i could hand paint 8-10 on top of the blurred out ones that are there now 19:08:15 <mizmo> that might be cool 19:08:23 <mizmo> they shouldn't be too soap bubbly though, that wouldn't be realistic 19:08:25 <mizmo> ill give it a go 19:08:29 <ixxvil> know what i did with the ellyifsh right 19:08:34 <mizmo> do we want to move on to the castle? 19:08:36 <ixxvil> i gave an outlinefor a few bubbles 19:08:37 <ixxvil> ok ok 19:08:38 <ixxvil> cool 19:08:47 <mizmo> ixxvil, oh okay ill take a look at the jellyfish sketch as a reference 19:09:04 <mizmo> tatica, t2hot do you guys want to run the critique for the castle? which URLs should we look at? 19:09:23 <tatica> sure 19:09:23 <t2hot> I'm gonna let tatica decide 19:09:25 <tatica> http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/81 19:09:48 <tatica> I will use as reference t2hot renders 19:10:04 <tatica> I took a couple of minutes today to play with the lights http://www.flickr.com/photos/tatadbb/5936596631/ 19:10:18 <tatica> but I feel that is the most strong design of the castle 19:10:49 <tatica> there are several renders right now at http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/list 19:10:52 <mizmo> so i know the island is meant to have more trees right 19:11:06 <mizmo> but right now it looks a bit glossy which is maybe odd for terrain 19:11:13 <tatica> yeap, we where just working on that today 19:11:19 <mizmo> the shape is also kind of smooth, i would expect it to be more... craggy? rough? 19:11:20 <mizmo> okay cool 19:11:24 <mizmo> that's what sticks out to me most looking at it 19:11:32 <Ryan___> I think the ligher one: http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/64 is better, because the darker one is too dark for me. 19:11:34 <t2hot> mizmo correct there ... 19:11:38 <mizmo> it gives the appearance of being more like a toy than real, but i think if you can add the roughness and the trees it will be a big help 19:11:39 <tatica> but t2hot is knowing a bit more about licenses since he has some material that can be used but needs to clarify that first 19:11:51 <Ryan___> Oops! Wrong URL! 19:12:05 <mizmo> i like the sky in the lighter one 19:12:15 <t2hot> tatica wins 19:12:16 <Ryan___> I do too. 19:12:37 <mizmo> but i think the lighter one... the castle is too bright for the time of day maybe? 19:12:39 <Ryan___> The sky in the lighter one kind of looks like it is about to be dusk. 19:12:50 <mizmo> in the darker one, it seems like the sky and the lighting on the castle match 19:12:52 <t2hot> mizmo now sees my point too 19:13:02 <ixxvil> the castle is definitely bright 19:13:05 <mizmo> so maybe, try a different background on the lighter one, or maybe darken the castle on the brighter one 19:13:09 <ixxvil> i thought the coloring wasnt done which is why i didnt comment 19:13:21 <mizmo> i think maybe sunset is the prettiest time of day for such an image right? 19:13:28 <tatica> yeap, I'm more concern about meshing than colors really 19:13:28 <t2hot> mizmo, darken or brighten??? 19:13:30 <mizmo> so maybe adjusting the castle lighitng is the better approach 19:13:34 <tatica> because colors can be easily addapted 19:13:38 <Ryan___> Yes. I like sunsets for this kind of image. 19:13:40 * tatica taking notes of color suggestions 19:13:43 <ixxvil> reflection colors of the sky onto the castle 19:13:46 <ixxvil> reflect 19:13:48 <mizmo> yeh exactly 19:13:52 <t2hot> +1 to adjusting castle lighting 19:13:56 <mizmo> tatica, yeh they're definitely easier to adjust than the modeling! 19:13:59 <tatica> so, sunset light is better but we need to fix the watter color 19:14:00 <mizmo> (the model mesh) 19:14:03 <ixxvil> keep some parts of the castle's original colors but not the current one 19:14:09 <tatica> and castle must be darker 19:14:17 <mizmo> maybe proportions too 19:14:19 <ixxvil> darker depending on where we want the light 19:14:22 <tatica> add some small spots to the castle (like torchs) could help? 19:14:33 <ixxvil> that would complicate it 19:14:35 <mizmo> the castle looks like it is very close to the water 19:14:40 <ixxvil> mizmo: yeaaa 19:14:45 <ixxvil> because 19:14:49 <ixxvil> the water's movement makes it look close 19:15:05 <ixxvil> those are some big waves making it look so close to the water 19:15:11 <tatica> the water angle can be changed 19:15:15 <tatica> so looks more separated 19:15:32 <ixxvil> maybe closeup more on the waves, soften it out a bit 19:15:40 <ixxvil> make it tinier 19:15:42 <tatica> and when t2hot add the helix I can add some lights there (like peple working) so the reflexion will be seen at water 19:15:49 <tatica> does that sounds right? 19:16:31 <ixxvil> you guys still have to add the machinery 19:16:42 <ixxvil> its going to get complicated if you keep adding more elements 19:16:49 * t2hot cant see his keyboard 19:17:01 <tatica> yeap, machinery I think will be easier since we can add a metalic texture and go with easy shapes 19:17:13 <t2hot> +1 19:17:15 <ixxvil> and the rocks? 19:17:31 <ixxvil> trhe grass like mo said needs to look less plastic like 19:17:35 <t2hot> i'll remove the subsurfs on those ixxvil 19:17:46 <ixxvil> t2hot: ah ok 19:18:00 <mizmo> so looking at the original sketch 19:18:02 <mizmo> http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/post/view/46 19:18:08 <tatica> rocks will use light and shadow textures 19:18:19 <ixxvil> oh its different to the original 19:18:32 <tatica> t2hot, and I where working on that this morning (well... I was trying to understand blender 2.5 :$ ) 19:18:34 <mizmo> think the propellers will help a lot with the shpae of the island 19:18:38 <ixxvil> yeah 19:18:41 <mizmo> right now it's too regular 19:18:46 <Ryan___> I like the hot air balloons in the sketch. 19:18:48 <mizmo> the propellers will jut out, make it more interesting 19:18:51 <ixxvil> machinery + gears would make it come to life 19:18:51 <mizmo> also 19:18:56 <mizmo> the original sketch looks more organic 19:19:02 <mizmo> like there are vines and leaves coming down 19:19:04 <mizmo> now 19:19:11 <mizmo> we *could* do that on top of the 3d 19:19:13 <mizmo> do you know what i mean? 19:19:26 <mizmo> if you guys get to a render you really like, we can add the more organic stuff on a layer on top in mypaint or gimp 19:19:29 <Ryan___> The hot air balloons in the original sketch gives the castle image more depth. 19:19:30 <mizmo> so i wouldn't stress about that 19:19:36 <mizmo> but the propeller you'd need to add in blender 19:19:41 <mizmo> yeh the balloons would be nice to add too 19:20:04 <ixxvil> i think we should just let them finish lil by lil 19:20:11 <t2hot> mizmo ... all possible 19:20:16 <ixxvil> right now its like a shitload:D 19:20:28 <t2hot> ixxvil, very understanding 19:20:31 <mizmo> oh one last thing though 19:20:32 <mizmo> the fog 19:20:36 <ixxvil> yeahhh 19:20:39 <ixxvil> fog++ 19:20:41 <tatica> back 19:20:43 <t2hot> fog ... sure, afterwards 19:20:46 <mizmo> i have NO IDEA how you do fog but the fog in the original sketch really makes the image 19:20:50 <tatica> mizmo, we can add some mypaint textures to it 19:20:54 <tatica> completely, and work over that 19:20:59 <mizmo> it makes you feel like the castle is really floating because it's in the clouds 19:21:04 <mizmo> cool 19:21:13 <mizmo> these are all just suggestions and you guys probably already know these things 19:21:14 <ixxvil> mizmo: tatica mentioned before she oculd do the fogs 19:21:15 <ixxvil> no brainer 19:21:18 * tatica can add fog if t2hot doesn't want to... or to save him some time so he can keep meshing 19:21:20 <mizmo> but just so there's a direction logged here in the notes 19:21:22 <tatica> yeap 19:21:24 <t2hot> I still feel like remodelling the island and castle 19:21:41 <tatica> right now I think t2hot can work a bit more on trees while I advance with textures 19:21:51 <tatica> t2hot, don't know what do you think... I'm just talking like a crazy :$ 19:21:56 <Ryan___> Tatica, can I have your permission to edit your sketches and then send them to you to show you what I think would be nice? 19:21:58 <ixxvil> for the terraain is it going to be like that, flat? 19:22:03 <ixxvil> flat with grass i mean 19:22:16 <tatica> Ryan___, NO! completely forbiden..... 19:22:23 <tatica> Ryan___, unles... you send me some cookies :D 19:22:23 <t2hot> Ryan__ no need for permission. Do it 19:22:29 <tatica> cookies can change my life 19:22:34 <Ryan___> Okay. 19:22:36 <tatica> t2hot, shhh... ask for cookies! 19:22:40 <Ryan___> I like cookies too. 19:22:44 <t2hot> lolz 19:22:49 <ixxvil> meeting............ 19:22:54 <tatica> anyway 19:22:59 <mizmo> Ryan___, we do first, ask questions later around here ;-) 19:23:11 <tatica> t2hot, after meeting would you like to setup a roadmap for this weekend to work on the render? 19:23:19 <mizmo> tatica, it seems like we can just keep working on each image, we don't need to decide on one now 19:23:34 <mizmo> we all know what to do on each image, so let's just work towards it and talk about it july 26 19:23:35 <tatica> mizmo, I think so.. 19:23:41 <mizmo> or maybe even next meeting 19:23:41 <ixxvil> for the terrain is it going to be flat like that? 19:23:46 <tatica> both are completely different and both are going awesome 19:23:49 <mizmo> yep 19:23:50 <Ryan___> Sorry about that, Mizmo 19:24:00 <mizmo> Ryan___, no need to apologize :) you're doing great 19:24:05 <ixxvil> i mean of course you'll add grrass and trees 19:24:14 <ixxvil> but is it going to landscaped exactly like what we see now? 19:24:31 <Ryan___> Thanks, Mizmo 19:24:32 <tatica> ixxvil, no, I will add particles for the grass 19:24:39 <tatica> so will be "real grass" 19:24:46 <tatica> not a texture or render 19:24:52 <ixxvil> yeh but dont you think the terrain is a lil too clean to be like that? 19:25:10 <mizmo> ixxvil, we can always add more using mypaint or gimp as post-processing 19:25:14 <mizmo> to give it a more organic feeling 19:25:17 <t2hot> coooooool tatica ... 19:25:18 <tatica> ixxvil, noup :) actually is perfect since has a good vertices proportion :D 19:25:20 <ixxvil> like perfectly mowed grasss look 19:25:33 <ixxvil> yeah for more ogranic, more bushes maybe? 19:25:39 <mizmo> a similar technique to this ixxvil http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=134 19:25:40 <ixxvil> make it a lil thicnker? 19:25:45 <tatica> ixxvil, and if you want... we can add wind... so you "can see how grass moves" (but after the wallpaper deadline) 19:26:05 <t2hot> Should I or should I not remodel to match the original sketches .... ?????? 19:26:11 <ixxvil> naa 19:26:14 <ixxvil> finish what's there 19:26:24 <tatica> t2hot, just add the propels 19:26:37 <ixxvil> mizmo: ah 19:26:54 <t2hot> I can be crazy ixxvil ... you might just see it tomorrow 19:27:11 <elad661> shouldn't we move to the next topic? this sort of disscusion can be done on the list after the meeting IMO 19:27:17 <mizmo> yeh 19:27:18 <tatica> yes 19:27:21 <mizmo> cool 19:27:21 <tatica> elad661, +1 19:27:25 <t2hot> no problemo 19:27:29 <mizmo> what should we talk about next 19:27:37 <mizmo> we could talk about abrt, anaconda, or the events ninjas, or tickets 19:27:48 <ixxvil> tickets i'll deal with 19:27:54 <elad661> kirkB: any news about abrt? 19:27:54 <ixxvil> just need time till next week 19:28:02 <kirkB> nothing to report this week, sorry 19:28:27 <kirkB> some work things are taking up my evenings this last week and this one 19:28:40 <tatica> mizmo, there is a new recruit for anaconda, he should contact you tomorrow I think 19:28:43 <kirkB> haven't had a chance to progress, but also haven't heard from devs 19:28:53 <mizmo> ixxvil, sounds good 19:28:56 <mizmo> kirkB, sounds good 19:29:09 <mizmo> #info abrt - nothing new to report 19:29:19 <mizmo> #info ixxvil still working on ticket triage, will report next week 19:29:22 <mizmo> for anaconda 19:29:24 <mizmo> well 19:29:26 <mizmo> #topic ux design 19:29:42 <mizmo> for anaconda, clumens talked to me today and was worried about when we'd be finished 19:29:50 <mizmo> so i guesstimated end of august and he seemed cool with that 19:30:21 <mizmo> t2hot, are there any other events ninjas in the house right now or are you the only one here today? 19:30:24 * t2hot learned a new word today 'guesstimated' 19:30:44 <elad661> ok. 19:30:49 <elad661> stupid network, I seem to have a 30 seconds delay 19:30:49 <elad661> brb 19:30:57 <t2hot> looks like I'm alone 19:31:12 <mizmo> lol guesstimated yep 19:31:19 <mizmo> there's also 'automagical'! 19:31:21 <tatica> you're not alone! 19:31:33 <t2hot> thanks tatica :) 19:31:42 <tatica> never alone ¬¬ 19:31:43 <gnokii> even google translation has to learn that word 19:32:02 <tatica> brb 19:32:06 <Ryan___> Sorry for asking this, but when will this meeting end? I will have to quit soon since I have somewhere to go. 19:32:08 <mizmo> t2hot, do you want to discuss the join ambassadors mockups? 19:32:22 <t2hot> not without Vinz 19:32:27 <mizmo> Ryan___, it's usually ended by now, i forgot because we normally end at 4 but we should have ended at 3 19:32:29 <mizmo> let's adjourn? 19:32:35 <t2hot> sure 19:32:45 <mizmo> cool see you folks next week, same time & place :) 19:32:47 <gnokii> ooh but pls u can discuss that with me 19:32:49 <mizmo> #endmeeting