00:39:38 <stickster> #startmeeting Content party 00:39:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 22 00:39:38 2010 UTC. The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:39:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:39:47 <stickster> #meetingname Content party 00:39:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'content_party' 00:39:54 <rudi> Tsagadai -- you weren't in the meeting, but congrats on the F13 Virt Guide! 00:40:16 <stickster> #topic Important info 00:40:28 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats -- beats table for tracking work 00:40:52 <stickster> jjmcd: Can you change that table heading stuff? 00:41:05 * stickster will put some notes here about what we're doing 00:41:05 <quaid> gbinns: which page attracted your attention again? 00:41:14 <jjmcd> stickster - I think it is right, see the legend at the bottom of the page 00:41:29 <gbinns> ianweller: is there a way in which i can easily tell what other wiki pages are linking to the one i'm looking at? 00:41:34 <gbinns> quaid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Linux_Events 00:41:36 <stickster> jjmcd: Ah, super 00:41:44 <gbinns> quaid: ian was saying perhaps it should be deprecated and redirected to events 00:41:46 <ianweller> gbinns: should be a 'what links here' link on the left, under 'tools' 00:42:14 * jjmcd is crafting weasel words ;-) 00:42:55 <gbinns> ianweller: cool, yeah i can link everything over to the main events page if you all think it's a good idea 00:43:09 <stickster> #info For any beat that has a '1' in the Wiki Good column, and a '0' in the Publican column, check the wiki history for changes 00:43:15 <ianweller> gbinns: check the page history and see if it's being maintained 00:43:55 <stickster> #info Do a diff between the last freeze date of 2010-03-15 and now 00:44:06 <stickster> #info Then bring the changes into the git master branch of release-notes 00:44:16 <Emad78> jjmcd: stickster; I finished up the Printing one. It's good. 00:44:19 <stickster> #info When done, mark the beat '1' in the Publican column 00:44:23 <gbinns> ianweller: yes, there is some activity 00:44:28 <stickster> Emad78: I see that! Awesome! 00:44:29 <ianweller> gbinns: how recent 00:44:41 <jjmcd> Cool beans Emad78 00:44:53 <stickster> #info Emad78 did the Printing beat, so it has a '1' in "Wiki good" and '1' in "Publican" column 00:44:53 <quaid> gbinns: yeah, first thing we do is check the history, good you did that 00:45:08 <stickster> #topic Content party is on! 00:45:22 * stickster takes Desktop 00:45:43 * jjmcd is cloning to his faster machine which is now publican 1.6 capable 00:45:45 <ianweller> quaid: http://fpaste.org/VCOw/ <-- 50 wiki pages with the most views according to awstats 00:45:47 <gbinns> ianweller: quaid: last activity was march 9 00:45:54 <ianweller> gbinns: that's fairly recent 00:46:17 <quaid> gbinns: stickster mentions a purpose for that page, to identify events that aren't specifically events Fedora is already attending,etc. 00:46:35 <ianweller> gbinns: i'm moving away from wanting to deprecate now, but it still needs some love (a description of why the page exists can't hurt) 00:47:02 <Emad78> stickster: jjmcd: quaid: How can I log all of this? I'm trying to do the Content porting and Wiki stuff. Is there any way I can get this for later reference? 00:47:08 <quaid> gbinns: ianweller also that page doesn't need to change much; it's a reference page for Ambassadors to reuse over time 00:47:15 <ianweller> right 00:47:16 <stickster> Emad78: We're capturing everything going on right now 00:47:21 <jjmcd> Emad78, that's why stickster started a "meeting" 00:47:26 <stickster> Emad78: Your chat client may be logging too 00:47:26 <jjmcd> the meetbot is logging it 00:47:31 <Emad78> PERFECT!!! 00:47:33 <quaid> Emad78: right, and you can pick one thing right now and read the log later for the other thing :) 00:47:39 <stickster> #chair jjmcd quaid 00:47:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd quaid stickster 00:47:45 <stickster> #chair ianweller 00:47:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: ianweller jjmcd quaid stickster 00:47:52 <ianweller> stop throwing chairs at me :( 00:47:57 <quaid> gbinns: let's give that page a better description 00:47:57 <jjmcd> Ack 00:48:02 * stickster wants to make sure someone here can turn this thing off after he goes to bed :-) 00:48:09 <quaid> +1 00:48:17 <jjmcd> #info Looks like we still need rudi's publican patches 00:48:22 <nb> lol the meeting in #fedora-summer-coding had been going on for about 2 weeks 00:48:26 <nb> i just addchair'ed myself and ended it 00:48:52 <rudi> jjmcd -- to turn on the ToC? 00:48:57 <Emad78> jjmcd: stickster: Ok stick with you and do some porting 00:48:58 <stickster> #info 'git log en-US/<beatname>.xml' will give you good history too 00:49:00 <jjmcd> rudi - roger 00:49:07 <gbinns> quaid: ok - i also see the note about "This listing should be separated to split out pages where Ambassadors can advertise Fedora events." 00:49:15 * stickster notes that Desktop beat was sync'd through 3/31 00:49:42 <jjmcd> Ahhh, I noted changes to the wiki since St. Pat's 00:49:45 <rudi> jjmcd, sparks -- maybe I should just push a new version of the Fedora brand with those patches in place? 00:49:58 <jjmcd> rudi that would be a help. 00:50:01 <ianweller> quaid: ok so the purpose of looking at these 50+300 pages is to clean them all up and then docuemnt that cleaning so that we have a single document for fixing other pages? 00:50:02 <rudi> Until we work out how we want to handle articles? 00:50:11 <ianweller> quaid: that's what i've kind of grokked, please inform me if there's anything else 00:50:16 <jjmcd> Did you have something similar for html-desktop? 00:50:21 <stickster> Hm 00:50:42 <rudi> jjmcd -- no, forgot about that! 00:50:52 * jjmcd will grab amateur radio 00:51:08 <jjmcd> html-desktop pretty strange without the TOC 00:51:10 <stickster> jjmcd: rudi: How come the Desktop beat content is so different from what's on the wiki, even before the last port happened? 00:51:51 <rudi> jjmcd -- uh, yeah :) 00:51:58 <quaid> gbinns: I'm not sure what the note about splitting out means ... 00:52:07 <quaid> ianweller: I think that is the right idea, yeah 00:52:14 <ianweller> alright time for email typing 00:52:24 <quaid> about 3% total of the full page set seems a safe sample? 00:52:30 <jjmcd> Because the first paragraphs were mobved to other beats 00:52:32 * quaid is NOT a maths guy 00:52:35 <jjmcd> there was duplication 00:52:46 <stickster> jjmcd: That should have been changed in the wiki too then 00:52:55 <jjmcd> Yes it should 00:53:14 <stickster> They really need to stay sync'd or this whole operation becomes much harder than it needs to be 00:53:47 <jjmcd> Oh, FF is disorienting -- opens new tabs on the left instead of the right 00:53:50 <stickster> #info keep beats sync'd to git content up until we port for the GA 00:54:36 <stickster> jjmcd: See, now someone who's working on this with us has to make a mental map of those changes, and try to reconcile them at the same time with new changes since the prot. 00:54:37 <stickster> *port.l 00:54:43 * stickster shoots typist 00:55:13 <Emad78> jjmcd: I'm working on fixing the Hardware Beat. Is that what were supposed to be doing? Or you want me doing something else 00:55:14 * stickster is glad he took this one and not a new guy 00:56:02 * rudi picks up I18N 00:56:13 <jjmcd> Emad78, good a place as any? 00:56:23 <Emad78> Ok, I'm all over it. 00:56:26 <ianweller> quaid: 300 would be slightly less than 1% of the full page set. 00:59:03 <stickster> jjmcd: Were there any sneaky changes in Hardware similar to the Desktop beat? Or is that one basically in sync as of last porting? 00:59:22 <jjmcd> I think that one is straightforward 00:59:27 <stickster> coolio 00:59:28 <jjmcd> Emad78, is looking at it 00:59:46 * jjmcd is looking at kernel 00:59:58 <stickster> jjmcd: Right, but it won't be apparent if that kind of change took place 01:00:15 <Emad78> stickster: Did you want me to look at something specific? 01:00:56 <stickster> Emad78: You're good to go with Hardware, as long as jjmcd is sure that the Hardware beat isn't out of sync with the git repo 01:01:08 <gbinns> quaid: is this what you had in mind as a description? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Linux_Events 01:01:08 <stickster> as of the last porting date 01:01:32 <jjmcd> Hardware had some adds apr 15 01:01:37 <Emad78> There were just 2 changes as of the 15th 01:01:55 <Emad78> Quick changes 01:06:33 * stickster checks git log on Desktop.xml & gives rudi the stinkeye ;-) 01:06:49 <quaid> ianweller: what is the 9000 number represent? 01:06:51 <rudi> Yeah; I'll cop to that 01:06:55 <gbinns> brb 01:06:58 <rudi> Thought it was me ;) 01:07:03 <ianweller> quaid: main namespace 01:07:05 <ianweller> only 01:07:12 <ianweller> quaid: the 31,000 number represents everything 01:07:18 <quaid> ah, right 01:07:46 <stickster> The repo never lies! :-D 01:08:05 <stickster> However... git diff <commit1>..<commit2> will help me get back in the saddle 01:10:29 <quaid> ah-ha! 01:10:31 <Emad78> jjmcd: I'm supposed to make changes in the beats page into the xml right? The minimums are kind of confusing me. 01:10:55 <quaid> stickster: you added the admonition on the top ofhttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Linux_Events ... can you give guidance on what that means? 01:10:56 <stickster> Emad78: Yes, that's right, changes in the Beats go into the XML 01:11:00 <jjmcd> Emad78, correct. The beat should be more current 01:11:12 <Emad78> Ok, got it. 01:11:20 <jjmcd> But yeah, there has been all sorts of discussion about the minimums 01:12:02 <Emad78> Yeah that's why I was wondering, cause the minimums are lower in the beats. just wanted to make sure that's right. 01:12:44 <stickster> quaid: If you check the ambassadors list around the time of that edit, that's a source for the content 01:12:58 <stickster> I can't bring the page up right now, wiki slow... 01:13:10 <quaid> gbinns: I saw that stickster added the admonition about splitting up the page, and he just said: 01:13:17 <quaid> 18:12 < stickster> quaid: If you check the ambassadors list around the time of that edit, that's a source for the content 01:13:44 <quaid> so that time was ... ~21 Jan 2010 01:13:46 <ianweller> quaid: i don't even know what namespaces we should be taking these random pages from. should we just do the main namespace? 01:13:50 <stickster> quaid: thanks 01:13:57 * stickster finds URL 01:14:02 <quaid> ianweller: seems like an idea 01:14:03 <ianweller> quaid: the main purpose for other namespaces is that they are Stuff We Should Not Touch, as far as i'm concerned 01:14:07 <quaid> yes! 01:14:11 <quaid> that's what I was thinking, too 01:14:14 <stickster> quaid: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-January/013491.html 01:14:23 <stickster> gbinns: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-January/013491.html 01:14:23 <quaid> stickster is faster with his threadfu 01:14:28 <gbinns> quaid: stickster: thanks 01:14:32 <quaid> #link 18:12 < stickster> quaid: If you check the ambassadors list around the time of that edit, that's a source for the content 01:14:36 <quaid> orry! 01:14:38 <quaid> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-January/013491.html 01:15:26 <gbinns> awesome, i'll take care of it 01:15:48 <quaid> ah 01:16:04 <quaid> gbinns: so, when a Fedora Ambassador does an event, a separate page is made 01:16:19 <quaid> e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SCaLE_8x_Event 01:16:31 <quaid> that's what the final bullet in the email is referring to. 01:17:14 <gbinns> i see 01:17:15 <quaid> the suggestion is to make ''stubs'' with replaceable content for ambassadors to add links 01:17:33 <quaid> hmm, I think that's what he means? 01:17:47 <quaid> oic! 01:18:11 <quaid> he means, if the remote URL/page has the ability to Fedora Ambassadors to add information to the _other_ site 01:18:17 <quaid> highlight those in someway 01:18:35 <quaid> either as a separate list in each country list, or make them boldface? 01:18:47 <quaid> separate lists might be best 01:18:52 * quaid makes up an example of what he means 01:18:56 <gbinns> ok i think i'm confused 01:19:00 <gbinns> is there an example on that list? 01:20:18 <quaid> http://fpaste.org/Oa0B/ 01:20:26 <quaid> note that I randomly cut that list in half 01:20:41 <quaid> stickster: is that what you meant? 01:20:42 <ianweller> i love python and the mediawiki api 01:21:12 * jjmcd grabbinb eclipse 01:21:29 <stickster> quaid: Yes, modulo some more explanatory text 01:24:08 <stickster> rudi: Publican doesn't have any problem with the self-closing ulink, right? like <ulink url='somewhere' /> 01:24:36 <rudi> stickster -- no; that was fixed long ago :) 01:24:43 <stickster> rudi: awesome, thx 01:24:47 <rudi> NP 01:25:50 <rudi> The "short circuit" tag is actually better IMHO, because it doesn't tempt people to hide URLs 01:26:03 <ianweller> quaid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Wiki_sweep#300_random_pages 01:26:28 <quaid> gbinns: I hate this version I'm PROPOSING but it has a modified information: 01:26:33 <quaid> #link http://fpaste.org/2EE1/ 01:26:48 <quaid> that is just for the page explanatory text 01:27:05 <quaid> anyone have suggestions to make that less scary/too-long? 01:27:31 <gbinns> ok, thanks quaid, yes, that's way better 01:29:00 <gbinns> if you think it's too long you could just remove ", and in to pages that 01:29:01 <gbinns> only have a calendar and some other event content submission process" 01:31:45 * sparks needs some git help in #fedora-meeting-1 01:32:02 <sparks> rudi jjmcd stickster quaid ^^^ 01:34:20 <ianweller> quaid: mail sent to both wiki@ and docs@ 01:34:44 <quaid> coo' 01:38:47 <sparks> ianweller: Thank you 01:39:09 <Emad78> jjmcd: Ok Hardware Overview is back up in repo. I'm gonna go on to Mail Servers. 01:39:28 <jjmcd> Good deal. I'm gonna have to bail pretty soon 01:39:44 <jjmcd> In the morning I'll do developer tools ... it looks like there is more to do there than I thought 01:40:25 <jjmcd> but we are chunking right through them 01:40:56 <jjmcd> That's right, its early for you. Are you on central or mountain? 01:41:49 <Emad78> I'm back at home, in Central. 01:42:43 <jjmcd> I've been at the keyboard pretty hard all day. Did a fresh install on my server and there are like a zillion services to configure 01:45:12 <jjmcd> stickster, if you get a chance, take a quick read of the PPC beat. I kept it short, not sure a lot of rambling is appropriate. 01:45:27 <stickster> jjmcd: I'm caught between helping on some git stuff and the Desktop beat right now 01:45:32 <stickster> But I'll def look at it 01:45:46 <jjmcd> Yeah I see that. I'm gonna give it up pretty quick here 01:46:43 <gbinns> quaid: i'll go in and categorize events links like you showed me in your fpaste 01:46:52 <quaid> gbinns: cool 01:49:23 <nb> jjmcd, do you need help with them? 01:49:55 * nb needs to learn how to do publican stuff 01:56:54 <Emad78> jjmcd: stickster: I just removed a bunch of PPC stuff from the hardware overview beat, cause the update said it is no longer supported as of F13. Does that have anything to do with what jjmcd is talking about. 01:59:08 <stickster> jjmcd: ^^ 01:59:14 <stickster> Emad78: I think it does 02:00:30 <Emad78> Do we still need that beat then 02:06:06 <stickster> Emad78: Let me read what jjmcd wrote 02:06:24 <stickster> jjmcd: Maybe you could give us some more context so Emad78 knows how to integrate his changes with yours :-) 02:09:09 <Emad78> stickster: He might have called it a night.... 02:09:14 <stickster> Emad78: Ah, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_PPC_Specific_Content_Beat 02:09:46 * stickster just made a tweak there 02:09:58 <Emad78> Ok 02:10:30 <stickster> Emad78: I would say yes, removing any PowerPC from HardwareOverview is a good idea. 02:11:11 <Emad78> stickster: Yeah I did that. So is the separate beat just because???? 02:12:05 <stickster> Emad78: I don't understand the question? 02:12:33 <Emad78> I was just wondering why there is a PPC beat if it's no longer supported. 02:12:50 <stickster> Emad78: Because that's a *change* from F12 02:13:02 <stickster> The release notes are primarily designed to show changes from one release to the next 02:13:11 <stickster> (important ones at least) 02:13:15 <Emad78> Ahhhhh, sorry. totally spaced that one out. Sorry. 02:13:37 <Emad78> So it's not just what's new. It's any changes all together. 02:14:43 <Emad78> stickster: Ok, I'm sorry. Didn't want to get you all confused. I'm all better now. 02:15:21 <noriko> anyone can point where I can download F13 beta ? 02:15:36 <stickster> noriko: http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/test/ 02:15:44 <stickster> I think that will get you to the nearest mirror 02:15:53 <noriko> thanks! 02:16:25 <stickster> noriko: If you want something newer, there are nightly composes too 02:16:36 <stickster> http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/ 02:17:04 <noriko> I like something lighter.... just wanna see s-c-user screenshot... 02:18:24 <stickster> jjmcd: Are you looking to put that PPC note in the HardwareOverview? 02:19:45 <stickster> jjmcd: I don't think we are using any of the ArchSpecific beats in the final product now. 02:25:30 * stickster sends something to list so it's not lost 02:27:10 <Emad78> stickster: I guess we can talk to him tomorrow. 02:27:17 <stickster> Emad78: sure 02:27:35 <stickster> Emad78: We're well ahead of schedule, we have until Monday to have everything finished IIRC 02:28:05 <Emad78> stickster: Cool, ahead of schedule is good. I'm gonna do one more I think. 02:32:19 <stickster> Emad78: I'm trying to find one to finish up with myself 02:32:44 * stickster may try to write some material in the Xorg beat 02:33:57 * Emad78 will do the Server Config Tools then 02:45:36 * stickster realizes that Xorg beat is another beat that has a non-sync'd wiki page :-( 02:48:16 <laubersm> rudi? 02:49:27 * jsmith stumbles back onto the intarwebs 03:09:28 <laubersm> rudi - User Guide update on list (docs@) and in my wiki page... a couple more things for tomorrow then I'm ready to push an update. 03:09:35 * laubersm is going to bed now... 03:51:14 <rudi> laubersm -- thanks 04:55:59 <rudi> ping noriko 04:58:04 <noriko> rudi: pong 04:58:35 <rudi> noriko -- could you take a look at this please? It's my solution for giving translators more timely credit: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Documentation_Translations_-_Contributors 05:00:03 <noriko> sure!! 05:02:36 <rudi> noriko -- anything I've missed? 05:06:40 <noriko> rudi: ypyp, very nice. one question. 05:06:54 <noriko> who and how the list to be updated? 05:07:54 <rudi> Collaboratively. It would be really nice for translators who work on docs to remember to add their names to the page, but writers should not depend on that. 05:08:48 <rudi> And the individual doc leads should add translator names if the notice anyone missing (by checking the git logs like they have to do now anyway). 05:09:22 <rudi> If they are maintained properly, this would be a huge benefit when it comes to making the F14 documentation 05:10:19 <noriko> rudi: excellent. 05:11:04 <noriko> it is easy to the action 'add myself in contributor list' as many of translators more focus on translation. 05:11:04 <rudi> OK; I've already dropped links into the F13 User Guide and Virt Guide; I'll make a post to trans-list and docs-list. Thanks for the feedback. 05:11:33 <noriko> rudi: shall we have new entry in the Schedule "check all contriutors are in the list"? 05:11:59 <rudi> That would be excellent; and we should probably mention it in the TQSG and/or L10N FAQ 05:12:01 <noriko> rudi: I am already excited to see your post. 05:12:21 <rudi> Thanks :) And thank you for the discussions 6 months ago that brought us here :) 06:03:50 <rudi_> .fasinfo Cyrushmh 06:03:51 <zodbot> rudi_: User "Cyrushmh" doesn't exist 11:09:16 <jjmcd> #endmeeting