18:17:31 <randomuser> #startmeeting fedora docs office hours 18:17:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 29 18:17:31 2015 UTC. The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:17:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:17:38 <randomuser> because why not, it's thursday 18:18:02 <randomuser> jhradilek, what's the issue with wkhtmltopdf ? 18:19:29 <jhradilek> randomuser: The last time I tried it on RHEL, the PDF files weren't built properly and contained errors. 18:20:11 <randomuser> think we're up to putting Fedora in production? 18:21:17 <jhradilek> It's not my call, but personally, I prefer RHEL on a server. :) 18:21:37 <randomuser> it's as much your call as anyone else's 18:21:56 <randomuser> I'll go for EL7 machines, then 18:22:44 <randomuser> I've been thinking the whole el6-docs thing, with newer publican and dependencies, is unsustainable 18:22:52 <randomuser> ie, nobody is updating those extra packages 18:28:13 <jhradilek> Good thing is that if we deploy Jenkinscat, publican will become optional. If we ever decide that we don't need it, we will be able to replace it with yelp or any other tool that can convert DocBook to HTML. 18:28:51 <randomuser> funny, I always thought of yelp as a viewer 18:29:06 <randomuser> I didn't know it could do standalone conversion 18:30:02 <jhradilek> It can and not only to HTML. 18:30:05 <jhradilek> https://help.gnome.org/admin/gdm/stable/ 18:30:11 <jhradilek> This is generated with Yelp. 18:30:53 <jhradilek> Shaun also maintains the XSLT files as a separate package, so it is fairly easy to use those as a bases and even ignore yelp. 18:31:00 <jhradilek> *basis 18:31:19 <jhradilek> I did that before. :) 18:31:40 <randomuser> eeenteresting 18:32:50 <randomuser> jhradilek, so what's new with the test framework stuff? 18:34:10 <jhradilek> randomuser: It works, it supports colors and can generate plain text, HTML, and XML reports. 18:34:49 <randomuser> does it validate it's own XML reports ? :P 18:34:55 <jhradilek> randomuser: The core library is complete, so it is possible to write full-featured tests and run them on the command line, in Jenkins, or wherever you want. 18:35:09 <jhradilek> randomuser: Of course, it tests itself. ;) 18:35:38 <randomuser> heh 18:35:45 <jhradilek> randomuser: What is missing is the middle part, which is not urgently needed: libraries for docbook, markdown, asciidoc etc. 18:36:24 * randomuser adds emender to his github feed already 18:36:34 <jhradilek> randomuser: You can write tests, but if you want to work with XML, right now, you need to explicitly use xmlstarlet or something similar. Eventually, we want to implement libraries that will make it much easier to parse XML without knowing anything about it. 18:37:06 <jhradilek> randomuser: Do you still have a BlueJeans account? 18:37:20 <jhradilek> randomuser: I could show you a quick demo. :) 18:38:12 <randomuser> I don't think I do have a bluejeans account, but I'd like that 18:38:37 <jhradilek> randomuser: https://github.com/emender/emender-fedora 18:39:13 <jhradilek> This is currently in a terrible shape and I apologize for that, but eventually, here is where we want to have tests that are written specifically for fedora-docs. 18:39:29 <jhradilek> If you have a GitHub account, I can give you commit access. 18:39:58 <randomuser> ...sometime when I'm not at work, sharing a T1 with 20 other people 18:40:35 <randomuser> Sure, I have a github account 18:41:25 <jhradilek> I want to see two other tests there: TestLinks, which will verify that all links indeed work, and TestPackages, which will verify that all documented packages are really in Fedora. :) 18:43:51 <randomuser> or TestCommand, tests <command>\(string\).*</command> vs `which \1` or `repoquery -qf \*bin/\1` 18:44:19 <randomuser> that's absolutely terrible pseudocode, but hopefully gets the point across 18:45:45 <jhradilek> Anything you can think of. TestPackages, which is actually already implemented, just not for Fedora, also looks for commands that manipulate with packages, such as "yum install .*". 18:48:03 <randomuser> I also really like the <prompt> convention 18:48:45 <randomuser> ...I don't think everyone agrees, but maybe some test framework warnings would change their mind :) 18:49:23 <randomuser> I'll send pull requests if I come up with anything 18:55:01 <randomuser> wow, this fedora merchandise is not overly expensive 18:55:05 <randomuser> I'm going to buy some 18:58:20 <jhradilek> Ok, I need to run home, but I'll be back in ~20 minutes. 18:59:17 <grundblom> I wish I looked good in ringer shirts, but I look really bad... 18:59:58 <grundblom> but that's exciting 19:00:59 <randomuser> I'm going to order one, and be defiantly unselfconscious about wearing it :P 19:33:02 <jhradilek> Here. 19:35:08 <Corey84> the direct cgit links for install and release notes git again please (hosed up my git trees ) 19:35:19 <Corey84> aka rm -rf in wrong place 19:36:42 <randomuser> git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/ 19:36:58 <randomuser> Corey84, then browse 19:38:59 * randomuser leaves for food 19:52:58 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: sure, I'll take next tomorrow 20:18:02 <ignatenkobrain> \\\\\\\\\'\||||\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 20:18:46 <ignatenkobrain> sry 20:52:00 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, there's something weird going on here 20:52:32 <randomuser> I got impatient and updated the workstation I filed the distro-sync bug on, and a bunch of packages went missing 20:54:09 <randomuser> actually, nevermind, I think that `package-cleanup --clean-dupes` is to blame 20:57:48 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: dude 20:57:54 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 1679:36 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot 20:58:06 <ignatenkobrain> mincross: pass 1 iter 3 trying 2 cur_cross -1730260518 best_cross -1823462541 20:58:57 <randomuser> that's insane 21:00:22 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, the good news is that since it's only a single thread, you have spare cycles/cores and could probably trigger it after every rawhide mash :) 21:19:30 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: well, I'm going to bed... what 3 utils or plugins you want to get first? I mean what you're using or just seems interesting to you 21:20:43 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, in no particular order, I think package-cleanup, needs-restarting, and yum-complete-transaction are widely used 21:21:19 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: needs-restarting... we have 2 alternatives ;) 21:21:28 <randomuser> cool 21:21:28 <ignatenkobrain> tracer plugin and needs_restarting 21:21:31 <ignatenkobrain> =) 21:21:36 <ignatenkobrain> tracer looks more better 21:22:51 * randomuser tries it out 03:02:59 <randomuser> -bash: vim: command not found 03:03:08 <randomuser> something has gone seriously wrong here 05:10:09 <Corey84> indeed tried vim-gtk to see if all vim is trashed? 05:16:40 <randomuser> Corey84, package-cleanup misadventure 05:23:25 <Corey84> thats all ? :) no fun debugging time :( 11:05:44 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 2527:38 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot 14:31:16 <randomuser> jhradilek, 66 unmet buildrequires for jenkins in epel-7-x86_64 14:32:04 <randomuser> that's a whole lot of packaging work 14:33:13 <jhradilek> Ouch. 14:33:34 <jhradilek> What are our other options? 14:35:40 <randomuser> look at other ci frameworks, or use Fedora 21 14:37:10 <randomuser> i'm intrigued by buildbot, but I also don't want to drag us away from a known-working solution on a whim :/ 14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/hexS 14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/iVrn 14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/iVrn 14:54:48 <randomuser> I do have an instance of f21 running jenkins that I'll be playing with, though 15:49:18 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/2qloV 15:49:18 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/KXN8 15:49:19 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/KXN8 23:18:10 <jsmith> Sparks: This one is for you and jjmcd: http://youtu.be/ANskuHor7zs 23:48:45 <pbokoc> randomuser, I require your services :) 23:48:57 <randomuser> pbokoc, i've been waiting for you to pop up all day 23:49:09 <pbokoc> he lives! 23:49:32 <randomuser> I need to make sure you know about http://www.houseoftsang.com/products/mongolian-fire-oil/ 23:49:42 <pbokoc> oh I like the sound of that URL 23:50:06 <pbokoc> hmm, I think jhradilek would appreciate that more 23:50:30 <randomuser> it's somewhere between sriracha and liquid smoke 23:50:37 <randomuser> but not overpoweringly so 23:50:51 * pbokoc googles liquid smoke 23:51:12 <pbokoc> huuuuuuh 23:51:18 <pbokoc> The European Food Safety Authority has found that some liquid smoke products contain In Vitro but not In Vivo carcinogenic genotoxic compounds. 23:51:22 <pbokoc> well I have to try that 23:52:18 <pbokoc> randomuser, anyway, I have two things: 1 - if you could republish the Installation Guide (from f21-branch), that would be grrrrreat :)) it's not really important, but I did fix a few things 23:52:37 <randomuser> I did see your flurry of commits earlier 23:52:39 <randomuser> I can do that 23:52:45 <pbokoc> I mean, I wrote a whole section in the relnotes about changes in Kickstart, and yesterday I realized I didn't actually describe them in the IG 23:53:37 <pbokoc> yeah, the flurry in commits is way less impressive when you realize that if you throw one commit into three branches, it sends 3 mails and the bot generates 3 messages too 23:54:22 <randomuser> you're up to *three* branches now? 23:54:40 <randomuser> that's going to get confusing, you should add one more as a backup in case you mess them up 23:54:43 <pbokoc> f21, f22 and master 23:54:54 <randomuser> ah, you're branched for F22 already 23:55:01 <pbokoc> yeah 23:55:02 <randomuser> pro-active! 23:55:09 <pbokoc> that's my middle name 23:55:32 <randomuser> are you following the password quality discussion? 23:55:33 <pbokoc> it's been useful already - when bcotton did the yum>dnf change he could use the f22 one 23:56:12 <pbokoc> nope... where? I saw some anaconda devs talking about password quality recently, but I wasn't really paying attention 23:56:40 <randomuser> oh, also one I'm excited about there: you can now specify an arbitrary ssh pubkey for arbitrary users in a ks 23:57:03 <randomuser> there was some talk on devel@ under the no root ssh password change, and now test@ 23:57:38 <pbokoc> right... I mostly ignore devel@, and I'm not even subscribed to test 23:58:10 <randomuser> ... I get bored during the day 23:58:26 <randomuser> was there a 2: ? 23:58:41 <pbokoc> yeah, but I read Red Hat's memo-list when I get bored :)) 23:59:21 <pbokoc> oh right... yeah, I saw a flurry of e-mails from a translator, about relnotes being incomplete in Zanata 23:59:43 <pbokoc> because I submitted that commit with MATE after the relnotes were published 00:00:00 <pbokoc> so I wanted to ask if you pushed the new commit(s) to Zanata already, or if I should do it 00:01:53 <pbokoc> although it turns out I can't because I'm not a maintainer... I thought I was 00:02:29 <randomuser> yeah, I was meaning to go over those 00:02:54 <pbokoc> yeah, ok, item number 3: please add me as a maintainer for release notes in Zanata :)) 00:02:55 <randomuser> afaik pkovar is the only one that has zanata powers on everything 00:03:28 <randomuser> ...I tried to get them to just add a bunch of us during migration, but I think I failed to communicate it. 00:03:37 <pbokoc> yeah, he's the man 00:04:00 <pbokoc> unfortunately he's also at some workshop or somesuch in Cambridge or something like that, so he's not really available 00:04:07 <randomuser> how rude 00:04:39 <pbokoc> I know, right? He's gone for over a week so I can't ask him to republish my books! 00:04:45 <randomuser> I'm mushing over some plan to automatically push strings to zanata 00:04:59 <randomuser> maybe just from fN branches 00:05:30 <pbokoc> that sounds good, except before we do that, we should have Jenkinscat deployed and tests implemented 00:06:53 <randomuser> indeed 00:07:09 <randomuser> I have a little jenkins vm I'm going to spend the weekend with 00:08:01 <pbokoc> yeah, enjoy :)) 00:08:36 <randomuser> right now it's stuck not doing the initial clone; I might have to actually read documentation 00:08:44 <pbokoc> *GASP* 00:08:50 <randomuser> in fact, I'm going to go home right now and do that 00:08:54 <pbokoc> that's an all caps gasp, too, so you know I'm serious 00:09:13 <pbokoc> hehe, yeah, it's Friday night, what else are you going to do :)) 00:46:21 <randomuser> pbokoc, okay, 1) and 3) are done 00:47:15 <pbokoc> http://goo.gl/hqNeSF 00:47:38 <randomuser> ha! 00:48:01 <pbokoc> wow, that's pixelated... well, you get the idea 00:48:39 <randomuser> I currently have RNs, SAG, TNs, and cookbook on zanata 00:49:02 <jhradilek> Evening guys. :) 00:49:15 <pbokoc> randomuser, here, have some beautiful music for your services: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5JMJ0JHx4 00:49:20 <randomuser> hey jhradilek 00:49:27 <pbokoc> he lives! 00:51:02 <randomuser> wow. It's like the song played after you beat an entire 8bit video game 00:51:42 <pbokoc> kinda, yeah, except with vocals in an indecipherable language 00:52:15 <randomuser> it just keeps getting weirder 00:52:23 <jhradilek> I can totally see myself playing Contra while listening to this. 00:52:31 <pbokoc> (seriously... the band is Russian, but the language is apparently... Enochian, which apparently is a thing, but not really) 00:52:33 <jhradilek> Would be a whole new experience, I think. 00:52:48 <randomuser> I was picturing Sonic :) 00:53:00 <jhradilek> randomuser: Isn't it too slow for Sonic? 00:53:00 <pbokoc> hahah 00:53:45 <randomuser> nah, they can speed it up when you get into super fast mode 00:54:11 <pbokoc> now that I think of it, the song might sound even better if you sped it up 00:56:21 <jhradilek> Especially its later parts. 00:57:18 <randomuser> I'm listening to more now, and it keeps getting more fun 00:57:25 <pbokoc> jhradilek, btw, have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ca6x4QbpoM 00:57:53 <pbokoc> [nsfw] 00:59:51 <jhradilek> If only KSP could look like this. :) 01:00:31 <pbokoc> jhradilek, check the comments :-D 01:00:47 <pbokoc> the top one is from Scott Manley 01:04:30 <jhradilek> With 1806 likes, no less. 01:07:08 <pbokoc> I'm sure it's because of his baldness 01:09:20 <jhradilek> He baldly goes where noone... Nah, that would be a cheap joke. 01:11:00 <pbokoc> :))) 01:45:06 <randomuser> hm, jenkins is taking more resources than I expected 01:45:47 <pbokoc> randomuser, well, jhradilek just left, he could probably tell you more about that 01:46:20 <pbokoc> but yeah, I've noticed that our Jenkins instance takes about twice as long to build abook than my laptop does 01:46:48 <randomuser> I can't log in to the interface at this point 01:47:02 <randomuser> probably need to throw moar cores at it 01:47:06 <pbokoc> yeah, I haven't noticed that 01:47:17 <pbokoc> moar cores solves everything, that's true 01:47:34 <pbokoc> *moar coars 01:47:43 <randomuser> 7777 jenkins 20 0 2840308 239236 15600 S 156.7 23.5 25:44.01 java 01:48:03 <randomuser> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 01:48:45 <randomuser> also, you got me wanting to play kerbal space program, so I put steam on my workstation - and it doesn't kerbal 01:49:09 <pbokoc> how does it not kerbal? 01:49:16 <pbokoc> like, is it not exploding enough? 01:49:21 <randomuser> It opens and immediately exits 01:49:29 <pbokoc> huh 01:50:01 <randomuser> ERROR: ld.so: object '/home/pete/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_64/gameoverlayrenderer.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64): ignored. might be relevant. 01:51:15 <pbokoc> that's strange... I've been running it on f20 and f21 without any issues 01:52:16 <randomuser> hm.. I think it's going to work when launched directly 01:58:06 <pbokoc> that's possible, I guess. It takes a long time to load, but once you get to the main menu ("Start game", etc.), you should be fine 01:58:26 <pbokoc> are you trying the free demo, or did you buy the full game? 02:01:12 <randomuser> oh, I got the full game 02:01:21 <randomuser> I'm already launching my first terrible rocket 02:01:31 <pbokoc> noice 02:01:50 <pbokoc> now grab this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100067-The-Comprehensive-Kerbal-Archive-Network-%28CKAN%29-Package-Manager-v1-5-0-24-Dec-2014 02:01:59 <randomuser> haha 02:02:14 <randomuser> I think I was supposed to point it up, somehow :D 02:02:30 <pbokoc> it's supposed to be pointing up from the start! :-D 02:06:10 <pbokoc> randomuser, anyway, watch this series to understand what you're doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puC-YV_h9Us&list=PLlzFz_qoTv_xHSEZro1SpW4soGzfpFAmi 02:06:27 <pbokoc> (yeah, it's long... everything about KSP is pretty time-consuming) 02:06:37 <randomuser> twenty minutes! 02:06:52 <pbokoc> no, that's just the first video :)) 02:14:39 * randomuser achieves apogee 02:15:40 <pbokoc> well everyone does that... the question is, how high was it? :)) 02:16:17 <pbokoc> because your apogee can be 50m above the ground, right before you spin out of control and destroy half the space center 02:17:59 <randomuser> about 16000m 02:18:17 <randomuser> I'm stuck in pilot view now :( 02:18:40 <pbokoc> press C or V 02:19:21 <pbokoc> I keep confusing these two, but one of them switches from inside to outside and the other one switches camera modes 02:19:23 <randomuser> shit, no parachute deployed! 02:19:44 <pbokoc> shit! It's like you didn't watch the tutorials! :-D 02:19:59 <randomuser> ...the music was too loud 02:20:21 <pbokoc> no worries, Jeb Kerman can survive anything 07:42:40 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/elections-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/unqhR 13:22:04 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 4104:31 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot 17:39:36 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, I'm beginning to suspect some recursive loops are in play there 18:02:15 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/AgHSo 22:05:34 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/GW0DM 22:23:24 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/50IRC 22:28:24 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/F9aZJ 02:40:54 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/FosR 03:37:16 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/3f9y 05:20:25 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/gVOh 13:32:50 * randomuser scowls 13:33:02 <randomuser> #endmeeting