18:17:31 <randomuser> #startmeeting fedora docs office hours
18:17:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 29 18:17:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:17:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:17:38 <randomuser> because why not, it's thursday
18:18:02 <randomuser> jhradilek, what's the issue with wkhtmltopdf ?
18:19:29 <jhradilek> randomuser: The last time I tried it on RHEL, the PDF files weren't built properly and contained errors.
18:20:11 <randomuser> think we're up to putting Fedora in production?
18:21:17 <jhradilek> It's not my call, but personally, I prefer RHEL on a server. :)
18:21:37 <randomuser> it's as much your call as anyone else's
18:21:56 <randomuser> I'll go for EL7 machines, then
18:22:44 <randomuser> I've been thinking the whole el6-docs thing, with newer publican and dependencies, is unsustainable
18:22:52 <randomuser> ie, nobody is updating those extra packages
18:28:13 <jhradilek> Good thing is that if we deploy Jenkinscat, publican will become optional. If we ever decide that we don't need it, we will be able to replace it with yelp or any other tool that can convert DocBook to HTML.
18:28:51 <randomuser> funny, I always thought of yelp as a viewer
18:29:06 <randomuser> I didn't know it could do standalone conversion
18:30:02 <jhradilek> It can and not only to HTML.
18:30:05 <jhradilek> https://help.gnome.org/admin/gdm/stable/
18:30:11 <jhradilek> This is generated with Yelp.
18:30:53 <jhradilek> Shaun also maintains the XSLT files as a separate package, so it is fairly easy to use those as a bases and even ignore yelp.
18:31:00 <jhradilek> *basis
18:31:19 <jhradilek> I did that before. :)
18:31:40 <randomuser> eeenteresting
18:32:50 <randomuser> jhradilek, so what's new with the test framework stuff?
18:34:10 <jhradilek> randomuser: It works, it supports colors and can generate plain text, HTML, and XML reports.
18:34:49 <randomuser> does it validate it's own XML reports ? :P
18:34:55 <jhradilek> randomuser: The core library is complete, so it is possible to write full-featured tests and run them on the command line, in Jenkins, or wherever you want.
18:35:09 <jhradilek> randomuser: Of course, it tests itself. ;)
18:35:38 <randomuser> heh
18:35:45 <jhradilek> randomuser: What is missing is the middle part, which is not urgently needed: libraries for docbook, markdown, asciidoc etc.
18:36:24 * randomuser adds emender to his github feed already
18:36:34 <jhradilek> randomuser: You can write tests, but if you want to work with XML, right now, you need to explicitly use xmlstarlet or something similar. Eventually, we want to implement libraries that will make it much easier to parse XML without knowing anything about it.
18:37:06 <jhradilek> randomuser: Do you still have a BlueJeans account?
18:37:20 <jhradilek> randomuser: I could show you a quick demo. :)
18:38:12 <randomuser> I don't think I do have a bluejeans account, but I'd like that
18:38:37 <jhradilek> randomuser: https://github.com/emender/emender-fedora
18:39:13 <jhradilek> This is currently in a terrible shape and I apologize for that, but eventually, here is where we want to have tests that are written specifically for fedora-docs.
18:39:29 <jhradilek> If you have a GitHub account, I can give you commit access.
18:39:58 <randomuser> ...sometime when I'm not at work, sharing a T1 with 20 other people
18:40:35 <randomuser> Sure, I have a github account
18:41:25 <jhradilek> I want to see two other tests there: TestLinks, which will verify that all links indeed work, and TestPackages, which will verify that all documented packages are really in Fedora. :)
18:43:51 <randomuser> or TestCommand, tests <command>\(string\).*</command> vs `which \1` or `repoquery -qf \*bin/\1`
18:44:19 <randomuser> that's absolutely terrible pseudocode, but hopefully gets the point across
18:45:45 <jhradilek> Anything you can think of. TestPackages, which is actually already implemented, just not for Fedora, also looks for commands that manipulate with packages, such as "yum install .*".
18:48:03 <randomuser> I also really like the <prompt> convention
18:48:45 <randomuser> ...I don't think everyone agrees, but maybe some test framework warnings would change their mind :)
18:49:23 <randomuser> I'll send pull requests if I come up with anything
18:55:01 <randomuser> wow, this fedora merchandise is not overly expensive
18:55:05 <randomuser> I'm going to buy some
18:58:20 <jhradilek> Ok, I need to run home, but I'll be back in ~20 minutes.
18:59:17 <grundblom> I wish I looked good in ringer shirts, but I look really bad...
18:59:58 <grundblom> but that's exciting
19:00:59 <randomuser> I'm going to order one, and be defiantly unselfconscious about wearing it :P
19:33:02 <jhradilek> Here.
19:35:08 <Corey84> the direct cgit links for install and release notes git again please  (hosed up my git trees )
19:35:19 <Corey84> aka rm -rf in wrong place
19:36:42 <randomuser> git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/
19:36:58 <randomuser> Corey84, then browse
19:38:59 * randomuser leaves for food
19:52:58 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: sure, I'll take next tomorrow
20:18:02 <ignatenkobrain> \\\\\\\\\'\||||\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
20:18:46 <ignatenkobrain> sry
20:52:00 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, there's something weird going on here
20:52:32 <randomuser> I got impatient and updated the workstation I filed the distro-sync bug on, and a bunch of packages went missing
20:54:09 <randomuser> actually, nevermind, I think that `package-cleanup --clean-dupes` is to blame
20:57:48 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: dude
20:57:54 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 1679:36 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot
20:58:06 <ignatenkobrain> mincross: pass 1 iter 3 trying 2 cur_cross -1730260518 best_cross -1823462541
20:58:57 <randomuser> that's insane
21:00:22 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, the good news is that since it's only a single thread, you have spare cycles/cores and could probably trigger it after every rawhide mash :)
21:19:30 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: well, I'm going to bed... what 3 utils or plugins you want to get first? I mean what you're using or just seems interesting to you
21:20:43 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, in no particular order, I think package-cleanup, needs-restarting, and yum-complete-transaction are widely used
21:21:19 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: needs-restarting... we have 2 alternatives ;)
21:21:28 <randomuser> cool
21:21:28 <ignatenkobrain> tracer plugin and needs_restarting
21:21:31 <ignatenkobrain> =)
21:21:36 <ignatenkobrain> tracer looks more better
21:22:51 * randomuser tries it out
03:02:59 <randomuser> -bash: vim: command not found
03:03:08 <randomuser> something has gone seriously wrong here
05:10:09 <Corey84> indeed  tried  vim-gtk to see if all vim is trashed?
05:16:40 <randomuser> Corey84, package-cleanup misadventure
05:23:25 <Corey84> thats all ? :)   no fun debugging time :(
11:05:44 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 2527:38 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot
14:31:16 <randomuser> jhradilek, 66 unmet buildrequires for jenkins in epel-7-x86_64
14:32:04 <randomuser> that's a whole lot of packaging work
14:33:13 <jhradilek> Ouch.
14:33:34 <jhradilek> What are our other options?
14:35:40 <randomuser> look at other ci frameworks, or use Fedora 21
14:37:10 <randomuser> i'm intrigued by buildbot, but I also don't want to drag us away from a known-working solution on a whim :/
14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/hexS
14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/iVrn
14:42:10 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/iVrn
14:54:48 <randomuser> I do have an instance of f21 running jenkins that I'll be playing with, though
15:49:18 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/2qloV
15:49:18 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/KXN8
15:49:19 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- pbokoc pushed some commits to the 'docs/install-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/KXN8
23:18:10 <jsmith> Sparks: This one is for you and jjmcd: http://youtu.be/ANskuHor7zs
23:48:45 <pbokoc> randomuser, I require your services :)
23:48:57 <randomuser> pbokoc, i've been waiting for you to pop up all day
23:49:09 <pbokoc> he lives!
23:49:32 <randomuser> I need to make sure you know about http://www.houseoftsang.com/products/mongolian-fire-oil/
23:49:42 <pbokoc> oh I like the sound of that URL
23:50:06 <pbokoc> hmm, I think jhradilek would appreciate that more
23:50:30 <randomuser> it's somewhere between sriracha and liquid smoke
23:50:37 <randomuser> but not overpoweringly so
23:50:51 * pbokoc googles liquid smoke
23:51:12 <pbokoc> huuuuuuh
23:51:18 <pbokoc> The European Food Safety Authority has found that some liquid smoke products contain In Vitro but not In Vivo carcinogenic genotoxic compounds.
23:51:22 <pbokoc> well I have to try that
23:52:18 <pbokoc> randomuser, anyway, I have two things: 1 - if you could republish the Installation Guide (from f21-branch), that would be grrrrreat :)) it's not really important, but I did fix a few things
23:52:37 <randomuser> I did see your flurry of commits earlier
23:52:39 <randomuser> I can do that
23:52:45 <pbokoc> I mean, I wrote a whole section in the relnotes about changes in Kickstart, and yesterday I realized I didn't actually describe them in the IG
23:53:37 <pbokoc> yeah, the flurry in commits is way less impressive when you realize that if you throw one commit into three branches, it sends 3 mails and the bot generates 3 messages too
23:54:22 <randomuser> you're up to *three* branches now?
23:54:40 <randomuser> that's going to get confusing, you should add one more as a backup in case you mess them up
23:54:43 <pbokoc> f21, f22 and master
23:54:54 <randomuser> ah, you're branched for F22 already
23:55:01 <pbokoc> yeah
23:55:02 <randomuser> pro-active!
23:55:09 <pbokoc> that's my middle name
23:55:32 <randomuser> are you following the password quality discussion?
23:55:33 <pbokoc> it's been useful already - when bcotton did the yum>dnf change he could use the f22 one
23:56:12 <pbokoc> nope... where? I saw some anaconda devs talking about password quality recently, but I wasn't really paying attention
23:56:40 <randomuser> oh, also one I'm excited about there: you can now specify an arbitrary ssh pubkey for arbitrary users in a ks
23:57:03 <randomuser> there was some talk on devel@ under the no root ssh password change, and now test@
23:57:38 <pbokoc> right... I mostly ignore devel@, and I'm not even subscribed to test
23:58:10 <randomuser> ... I get bored during the day
23:58:26 <randomuser> was there a 2: ?
23:58:41 <pbokoc> yeah, but I read Red Hat's memo-list when I get bored :))
23:59:21 <pbokoc> oh right... yeah, I saw a flurry of e-mails from a translator, about relnotes being incomplete in Zanata
23:59:43 <pbokoc> because I submitted that commit with MATE after the relnotes were published
00:00:00 <pbokoc> so I wanted to ask if you pushed the new commit(s) to Zanata already, or if I should do it
00:01:53 <pbokoc> although it turns out I can't because I'm not a maintainer... I thought I was
00:02:29 <randomuser> yeah, I was meaning to go over those
00:02:54 <pbokoc> yeah, ok, item number 3: please add me as a maintainer for release notes in Zanata :))
00:02:55 <randomuser> afaik pkovar is the only one that has zanata powers on everything
00:03:28 <randomuser> ...I tried to get them to just add a bunch of us during migration, but I think I failed to communicate it.
00:03:37 <pbokoc> yeah, he's the man
00:04:00 <pbokoc> unfortunately he's also at some workshop or somesuch in Cambridge or something like that, so he's not really available
00:04:07 <randomuser> how rude
00:04:39 <pbokoc> I know, right? He's gone for over a week so I can't ask him to republish my books!
00:04:45 <randomuser> I'm mushing over some plan to automatically push strings to zanata
00:04:59 <randomuser> maybe just from fN branches
00:05:30 <pbokoc> that sounds good, except before we do that, we should have Jenkinscat deployed and tests implemented
00:06:53 <randomuser> indeed
00:07:09 <randomuser> I have a little jenkins vm I'm going to spend the weekend with
00:08:01 <pbokoc> yeah, enjoy :))
00:08:36 <randomuser> right now it's stuck not doing the initial clone; I might have to actually read documentation
00:08:44 <pbokoc> *GASP*
00:08:50 <randomuser> in fact, I'm going to go home right now and do that
00:08:54 <pbokoc> that's an all caps gasp, too, so you know I'm serious
00:09:13 <pbokoc> hehe, yeah, it's Friday night, what else are you going to do :))
00:46:21 <randomuser> pbokoc, okay, 1) and 3) are done
00:47:15 <pbokoc> http://goo.gl/hqNeSF
00:47:38 <randomuser> ha!
00:48:01 <pbokoc> wow, that's pixelated... well, you get the idea
00:48:39 <randomuser> I currently have RNs, SAG, TNs, and cookbook on zanata
00:49:02 <jhradilek> Evening guys. :)
00:49:15 <pbokoc> randomuser, here, have some beautiful music for your services: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5JMJ0JHx4
00:49:20 <randomuser> hey jhradilek
00:49:27 <pbokoc> he lives!
00:51:02 <randomuser> wow. It's like the song played after you beat an entire 8bit video game
00:51:42 <pbokoc> kinda, yeah, except with vocals in an indecipherable language
00:52:15 <randomuser> it just keeps getting weirder
00:52:23 <jhradilek> I can totally see myself playing Contra while listening to this.
00:52:31 <pbokoc> (seriously... the band is Russian, but the language is apparently... Enochian, which apparently is a thing, but not really)
00:52:33 <jhradilek> Would be a whole new experience, I think.
00:52:48 <randomuser> I was picturing Sonic :)
00:53:00 <jhradilek> randomuser: Isn't it too slow for Sonic?
00:53:00 <pbokoc> hahah
00:53:45 <randomuser> nah, they can speed it up when you get into super fast mode
00:54:11 <pbokoc> now that I think of it, the song might sound even better if you sped it up
00:56:21 <jhradilek> Especially its later parts.
00:57:18 <randomuser> I'm listening to more now, and it keeps getting more fun
00:57:25 <pbokoc> jhradilek, btw, have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ca6x4QbpoM
00:57:53 <pbokoc> [nsfw]
00:59:51 <jhradilek> If only KSP could look like this. :)
01:00:31 <pbokoc> jhradilek, check the comments :-D
01:00:47 <pbokoc> the top one is from Scott Manley
01:04:30 <jhradilek> With 1806 likes, no less.
01:07:08 <pbokoc> I'm sure it's because of his baldness
01:09:20 <jhradilek> He baldly goes where noone... Nah, that would be a cheap joke.
01:11:00 <pbokoc> :)))
01:45:06 <randomuser> hm, jenkins is taking more resources than I expected
01:45:47 <pbokoc> randomuser, well, jhradilek just left, he could probably tell you more about that
01:46:20 <pbokoc> but yeah, I've noticed that our Jenkins instance takes about twice as long to build abook than my laptop does
01:46:48 <randomuser> I can't log in to the interface at this point
01:47:02 <randomuser> probably need to throw moar cores at it
01:47:06 <pbokoc> yeah, I haven't noticed that
01:47:17 <pbokoc> moar cores solves everything, that's true
01:47:34 <pbokoc> *moar coars
01:47:43 <randomuser> 7777 jenkins   20   0 2840308 239236  15600 S 156.7 23.5  25:44.01 java
01:48:03 <randomuser> PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
01:48:45 <randomuser> also, you got me wanting to play kerbal space program, so I put steam on my workstation - and it doesn't kerbal
01:49:09 <pbokoc> how does it not kerbal?
01:49:16 <pbokoc> like, is it not exploding enough?
01:49:21 <randomuser> It opens and immediately exits
01:49:29 <pbokoc> huh
01:50:01 <randomuser> ERROR: ld.so: object '/home/pete/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_64/gameoverlayrenderer.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64): ignored. might be relevant.
01:51:15 <pbokoc> that's strange... I've been running it on f20 and f21 without any issues
01:52:16 <randomuser> hm.. I think it's going to work when launched directly
01:58:06 <pbokoc> that's possible, I guess. It takes a long time to load, but once you get to the main menu ("Start game", etc.), you should be fine
01:58:26 <pbokoc> are you trying the free demo, or did you buy the full game?
02:01:12 <randomuser> oh, I got the full game
02:01:21 <randomuser> I'm already launching my first terrible rocket
02:01:31 <pbokoc> noice
02:01:50 <pbokoc> now grab this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100067-The-Comprehensive-Kerbal-Archive-Network-%28CKAN%29-Package-Manager-v1-5-0-24-Dec-2014
02:01:59 <randomuser> haha
02:02:14 <randomuser> I think I was supposed to point it up, somehow :D
02:02:30 <pbokoc> it's supposed to be pointing up from the start! :-D
02:06:10 <pbokoc> randomuser, anyway, watch this series to understand what you're doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puC-YV_h9Us&list=PLlzFz_qoTv_xHSEZro1SpW4soGzfpFAmi
02:06:27 <pbokoc> (yeah, it's long... everything about KSP is pretty time-consuming)
02:06:37 <randomuser> twenty minutes!
02:06:52 <pbokoc> no, that's just the first video :))
02:14:39 * randomuser achieves apogee
02:15:40 <pbokoc> well everyone does that... the question is, how high was it? :))
02:16:17 <pbokoc> because your apogee can be 50m above the ground, right before you spin out of control and destroy half the space center
02:17:59 <randomuser> about 16000m
02:18:17 <randomuser> I'm stuck in pilot view now :(
02:18:40 <pbokoc> press C or V
02:19:21 <pbokoc> I keep confusing these two, but one of them switches from inside to outside and the other one switches camera modes
02:19:23 <randomuser> shit, no parachute deployed!
02:19:44 <pbokoc> shit! It's like you didn't watch the tutorials! :-D
02:19:59 <randomuser> ...the music was too loud
02:20:21 <pbokoc> no worries, Jeb Kerman can survive anything
07:42:40 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/elections-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/unqhR
13:22:04 <ignatenkobrain> randomuser: 4104:31 dot -Tpdf -v rawhide.dot
17:39:36 <randomuser> ignatenkobrain, I'm beginning to suspect some recursive loops are in play there
18:02:15 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/AgHSo
22:05:34 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/GW0DM
22:23:24 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/50IRC
22:28:24 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/tools' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/F9aZJ
02:40:54 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/FosR
03:37:16 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/3f9y
05:20:25 <fedmsg-docs> 13trac.git.receive -- immanetize pushed some commits to the 'docs/multiboot-guide' fedorahosted git repository 10http://da.gd/gVOh
13:32:50 * randomuser scowls
13:33:02 <randomuser> #endmeeting