12:43:46 <lnovich> #startmeeting Fedora Docs Laura's Office Hours
12:43:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun 24 12:43:46 2015 UTC.  The chair is lnovich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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12:44:14 <lnovich> ok Kirsti - what can I do to make your transition and learning path easy
12:45:26 <kirsti> lnovich well, it has been a while since I did any technical work, and I cannot really find my way in the community
12:46:07 <kirsti> I have the FAS logon, signed up for docs, but it is not clear to me if i should sign up for other lists as well
12:49:07 <lnovich> the fedora docs mailing list is the only list you will need for docs questions, if you have questions based on using Fedora or other questions you may need to send to other lists
12:49:23 <lnovich> but for the most part, you should only need the docs list
12:49:37 <kirsti> ok clear
12:51:27 <lnovich> now as far as what to work on, it is really up to you to decide
12:52:08 <kirsti> I cannot find stuff clearly noted in the wiki / fedorea pages
12:52:18 <kirsti> links sometimes have dead ends
12:53:02 <lnovich> understood - the site unfortunately needs to be updated
12:53:12 <lnovich> ok hold on - I'll grab the link  you need
12:53:37 <kirsti> say that I would start with proof reading
12:54:06 <lnovich> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_tasks?rd=Docs_Project_tasks is the guide task list
12:55:44 <lnovich> so if you wanted to start writing you would look at the table see if there was a guide that appealed to you and then to sign up as the guide lead or ask the guide lead if you could join
12:56:00 <lnovich> Alternatively you can QA a guide and sign up as the QA lead
12:56:10 <lnovich> OR - you can join my team
12:56:36 <lnovich> there are a few writers working on re-vamping the Virtualization Getting Started Guide
12:56:46 <lnovich> and we are working on the outline at the moment
12:57:11 <lnovich> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning has the current TOC
12:57:19 <kirsti> ok, so let me join your team, what would I do for that?
12:57:24 <lnovich> and we need to change and update it so that it is more comprehensive
12:57:32 <lnovich> and makes more sense
12:57:45 <lnovich> and most important gives a true getting started experience
12:57:57 <lnovich> which caters to the newbie
12:58:03 <lnovich> which is where you come in!
12:58:31 <kirsti> :)
12:59:07 <lnovich> so what we are looking at right now is the guide's structure as shown here http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Virtualization_Getting_Started_Guide/index.html
12:59:23 <lnovich> and to see what topics need moving, changing, deleting
12:59:39 <lnovich> and then once we have the outline/format we will look at the specific chapters
12:59:53 <kirsti> that makes sense
13:00:11 <lnovich> and hopefully re-write this guide before I retire
13:00:40 <lnovich> hey smccann - meet kirsti  she is going to help us out
13:00:46 <kirsti> I take it that would be quite some time away
13:00:57 <lnovich> 20 yrs or so
13:01:16 <kirsti> hello smccann
13:01:22 <smccann> hi kirsti!  more the merrier in virt land
13:02:34 <kirsti> I will start by taking some time to go over what is there
13:02:42 <lnovich> so I asked kirsti to take a look at the planning wiki page i started
13:02:55 <kirsti> how can I best provide feedback?
13:05:22 <lnovich> if it is something that needs changing on the outline just add your name and comment like I have already done ie Kirsti --> or something similar
13:05:41 <lnovich> if it is a question or an error you see in the guide - email perhaps?
13:09:30 <smccann> did you get a chance to read grundblom's thoughts on adding containers to the guide?
13:11:12 <lnovich> i think it is a good idea, but I am not sure if it is beyond the scope for a Getting Started for Virt vs Getting Started with Containers?
13:12:25 <smccann> yeah I can go both ways with it
13:13:06 <smccann> seems somewhere we might want to cover why choose containers over VMs and visa virsa... not sure how that would fit if they are separate guides
13:13:56 <smccann> does docBook allow for reusable topics :-)  We could write one file and put it in both guides...
13:14:10 <lnovich> i just don't want to blow this little guide out to be a big book
13:14:28 <lnovich> yes smccann, but not the way you are thinking
13:14:52 <lnovich> you would need to check the XML file into multiple places in the repo and make sure the TOC was updated with both
13:15:14 <lnovich> once we have a CMS, we can handle topic reuse
13:15:38 <kirsti1> wouldn't containers be more for the administration guide rather than the beginners?
13:15:50 <lnovich> i think so
13:16:00 <lnovich> we can mention it is possible to do so and link to the larger guid
13:16:03 <lnovich> guide
13:16:30 <smccann> i thought so as well, but then in the last meeting someone mentioned using docker to get publican working again, and made me think there may be more to it for beginners
13:16:44 <lnovich> what I want to do is list 2 or 3 implementation scenarios
13:16:58 <lnovich> one of which can be a docker /container solution
13:17:29 <kirsti1> hmmm, as a beginner, it would confuse me ;)
13:17:36 <lnovich> but I only want to use the easiest one in the getting started and the other 2 can go in the admin guide
13:18:17 <smccann> my worry - if we put it in the admin, we need to change the title imo. I wouldn't think to look for containers in the virt admin guide
13:18:46 <smccann> which probly leads back to a container getting started guide, for the basics, and then point to virt admin guide for the nitty gritties?
13:18:54 <lnovich> honestly the virt guide is big enough
13:19:09 <smccann> which virt guide :-)
13:19:27 <lnovich> the deployment -Admin guide
13:19:31 <smccann> k
13:19:40 <smccann> and yeah it's sizable
13:19:41 <lnovich> ie the sequel to the getting started
13:19:52 <smccann> heh
13:20:44 <lnovich> I am thinking containers need their own thing and we should get a handle on them after this is done
13:20:52 <lnovich> but I could be convinced otherwise
13:22:31 <smccann> yeah I like them on their own guide(s).
13:24:19 <smccann> back to virt getting started.  You suggested last week a bit more on emulation etc. It's in the appendix, do you just want a mention of it earlier w/ a pointer there?
13:26:05 <lnovich> What we need to do is - get a solid set of deployment scenarios
13:26:11 <lnovich> pick the easiest one
13:26:20 <lnovich> and use it as our "quick start"
13:26:50 <smccann> ok who/where can we get that?
13:27:24 <smccann> i think someone mentioned before that a common VM use case would be bringing up windows on a fedora host.
13:27:33 <lnovich> the section on devices needs a pointer to the larger guide as it is pretty well documented there
13:27:45 <lnovich> and is above and beyond the quick start
13:28:45 <smccann> problem is - the larger guide doesn't exist. Do we point to the draft?
13:29:31 <lnovich> it exists and needs to be taken out of draft status
13:29:47 <lnovich> if you would like to do that I'd appreciate it VERY much
13:30:18 <smccann> ok guess my question is - we can't link to it until that is done, yes?
13:30:31 <lnovich> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/Virtualization_Deployment_and_Administration_Guide/index.html
13:30:38 <smccann> well if it's the ddraft I think it is, there's quite a bit of RHEL info in it
13:31:07 <lnovich> it needs to be stripped of the RHEL info and published
13:31:26 <lnovich> and then it needs to be re-written
13:31:38 <smccann> heh.
13:32:03 * lnovich takes out red pen and wields it like a sword
13:32:06 <smccann> I can take a wack at removing RHEL info then maybe you can take a look to see if it's publish-worthy (and for what release sin
13:32:11 <smccann> ce it's back at 19)
13:32:25 <lnovich> something is better than nothing - and then we can update it
13:32:38 <smccann> kk
13:33:04 <lnovich> the number of new features we are missing is not so much
13:33:24 <lnovich> and if we get this out for now it would take a load off my shoulders
13:36:43 <lnovich> ok so action items - kirsti1 - you will look over the outline and make suggestions
13:37:10 <lnovich> smccann: you will go over the mammoth VDAG and strip out anything irrelevant / Red Hat
13:37:29 <smccann> *gulp* yep
13:37:37 <lnovich> smccann: if you want to split it tell me how many chapters you can do and we can split
13:38:19 <smccann> k I'll get back to ya on that and let ya know
13:38:50 <lnovich> feel free to reach out to me via my email at lnovich@redhat.com
13:39:26 <lnovich> ok so if we are all set and there is nothing more to talk about I will close the meeting
13:39:37 <kirsti1> lnovich ack,
13:39:50 <smccann> yep I have enough to keep me busy
13:39:55 <lnovich> im sure
13:40:00 <lnovich> thank you everyone!
13:40:10 <lnovich> #endmeeting