14:08:34 <lnovich> #startmeeting Laura's office Hours
14:08:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug  5 14:08:34 2015 UTC.  The chair is lnovich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:08:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:08:54 <lnovich> #topic roll call
14:09:00 <lnovich> who's here today?
14:09:08 * kirsti is here
14:09:43 * smccann is here
14:10:13 <lnovich> #topic Old Business
14:10:35 <lnovich> ok hello everyone!
14:10:58 <zoglesby> I am going to jump into this meeting to ask people to fill out the whenisgood if they want to be a part of the publishing conversation
14:11:50 <lnovich> do you have a link zoglesby?
14:12:03 <lnovich> that's for tomorrow?
14:12:16 <zoglesby> http://whenisgood.net/esfgbe9
14:12:40 <zoglesby> lnovich: no, 12-15 at flock
14:12:50 <lnovich> ah ok
14:12:52 <zoglesby> trying to find a time that works to include us remote people
14:13:01 <lnovich> nice thought!
14:13:12 <lnovich> did you send it to the list email?
14:14:44 <smccann> yeah I saw it there
14:14:56 <lnovich> ok #action everyone to fill in whenisgood
14:15:14 <lnovich> zoglesby: anything else?
14:15:50 <lnovich> kirsti: do you have the link to the new outline for the getting started guide - all of my cached pages must have disappeared
14:15:51 <smccann> #link http://whenisgood.net/esfgbe9
14:16:09 <smccann> (sorry that was a slow link to the survey)
14:16:27 <lnovich> no problem smccann!
14:16:37 <zoglesby> lnovich: people need to fill out the beats tracker if they are interested in working a beat?
14:16:46 <kirsti> lnovich I only have this one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning
14:17:10 <zoglesby> but I don't care much about that right now, the other item has limited time to get a plan together
14:17:23 <lnovich> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning <-- this is the page I'd like to start with today
14:17:29 <lnovich> thanks kirsti!
14:17:52 <smccann> will have beat questions later...after we have virt fun :-)
14:19:12 <lnovich> Yes right now I'd like to finalize and finish this page and then look at the beats page and answer any questions about them
14:19:26 <kirsti> lnovich we are still working on a new set up right?
14:20:01 <lnovich> ok first of all smccann - any of the changes you made  - did they change anything in this outline?
14:20:14 <smccann> checking
14:20:48 <smccann> nope.  Haven't touched that guide since the outline was created
14:21:51 <lnovich> ok cool
14:23:43 <lnovich> so what I propose is 2 things
14:24:16 * grundblom here
14:24:20 <lnovich> 1 - to vote on each chapter and agree to the changes needed  - assign someone to make the changes on the wiki
14:24:59 <lnovich> 2 - to look at the proposed fixes that Kirsti has brought up - vote on them and assign them to someone - I'll create the BZs
14:25:10 <lnovich> sound fair?
14:25:18 <kirsti> sounds good
14:25:29 <grundblom> sounds good
14:25:48 <lnovich> hey grundblom we are looking at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning
14:27:53 <grundblom> 10-4 Thanks, I am there
14:28:22 <lnovich> ok so the boiler plate information we are not changing.
14:28:38 <lnovich> the organization in chapter 1 I have not really looked at
14:28:42 <lnovich> has anyone else/
14:29:02 <kirsti> it is much the same as in every other guide, standard
14:29:08 <smccann> not in a bit but I think it was pretty short and sweet
14:29:12 <kirsti> looks good to me
14:29:15 <lnovich> ok
14:29:19 <lnovich> moving on
14:29:21 <lnovich> chapter 2
14:29:46 <lnovich> I added that we need to introduce the major vocabulary for virtualization
14:30:03 <lnovich> sometimes guest/host server/client get misused
14:30:18 <lnovich> especially when the guest is a server
14:30:29 <smccann> agreed
14:31:01 <lnovich> so we need to state at the beginning in a table or with a diagram what is what and where everything is located
14:31:03 <kirsti> sounds logical
14:31:24 <lnovich> ok so the changes I suggested in chapter 2 are approved?
14:31:36 <lnovich> all in favor - say yes/aye
14:31:40 <kirsti> yes
14:32:07 <lnovich> smccann: vote?
14:32:17 <lnovich> grundblom: vote?
14:32:38 * grundblom aye
14:32:40 <smccann> yes
14:32:52 <lnovich> ok unanimous!
14:33:02 <lnovich> chapter 3
14:33:21 <lnovich> I AGREE we need a NEW SPIN on this chapter
14:33:24 <kirsti> I would still like to have a go at making this into more of a business case
14:33:31 <zoglesby> use that #agreed tag!
14:33:31 <lnovich> many people have heard about virt
14:33:57 <lnovich> but not so many really understand what it can and can't do
14:34:03 <zoglesby> makes better meeting minutes
14:34:05 <kirsti> Keeping most of the structure intact, but perhaps add a faq with the "misconceptionns"
14:34:24 <lnovich> a FAQ could be a great Idea
14:34:33 <lnovich> it would make us more Googleable
14:34:44 <lnovich> if that is a word
14:34:52 <kirsti> :D
14:35:14 <lnovich> Having titles that are closer to the way a human would search for them is best
14:35:24 <kirsti> Shall I have a go at a general text and then ask for input from you for use cases?
14:35:36 <grundblom> That makes me think if chapter 3 and 2 topics should be flipped...
14:35:44 <lnovich> so What is virtualization? Why do I need a virtual machine? What are the benefits of virtualization? etc
14:35:58 <lnovich> Maybe merge them?
14:36:18 <lnovich> and call the chapter Virtualization 101 or something like that
14:36:34 <grundblom> Sounds like a good idea
14:36:50 <kirsti> Sounds like a good plan
14:37:02 <grundblom> The diagram could fit in that chapter, and also gives us a nice way to establish terminology
14:37:04 <lnovich> I think we should move Security to its own chapter as well
14:37:33 <kirsti> makes sense, could still be in the faq and then link forward
14:38:04 * smccann nods
14:38:25 <lnovich> So can everyone think of questions and maybe add them to the wiki page?
14:38:43 <lnovich> #agreed to add FAQ to chapter 2
14:38:52 <lnovich> #agreed to merge chapters 2 and 3
14:39:21 * lnovich needs to get a better grip on the meeting notation....just as an aside
14:39:57 <lnovich> #action all to add questions to chapter 2/3 for the FAQ
14:39:58 <smccann> #info  the above agrees are for  adding FAQ to chapter 2 and merging chapters 2 and 3
14:40:25 <smccann> hah!  not sure either are the right thing to do before an agreed. maybe there's a propose hashtag or something
14:41:06 <lnovich> anyone want to make the changes to the wiki page? - if we merge 2and 3 there will need to be a lot of re-numbering
14:41:40 <kirsti> that will all depend on how the text is coming together...
14:41:43 <grundblom> I can
14:41:52 <lnovich> ok grundblom - it's all yours!
14:42:11 <lnovich> #action grundblom to make the changes to the wiki according to what has been agreed
14:42:31 <lnovich> kirsti suggested 3.6 be eliminated
14:43:18 <kirsti> 3.2 actually
14:43:24 <lnovich> I agree - virtualization is something that has no significant learning curve over any other software or OS - its just the mindset that has to change where your hardware is really software emulating the hardware.
14:43:30 <lnovich> yes sorry 3.2
14:43:31 <kirsti> 3.6 is the security chapter
14:43:53 <lnovich> so kirsti would like 3.2 eliminated - any objections?
14:44:57 <grundblom> none
14:44:59 <smccann> nope
14:45:11 <lnovich> ok #agreed to delete 3.2
14:45:32 <lnovich> next thing - it is not on the outline
14:45:40 <smccann> sorry, $dayjob issues... will keep this thread open but unresponsive for a bit
14:45:55 <lnovich> I'd like to add a new section to this chapter called Virtualization Uses
14:45:56 <smccann> .nick smccann_afk
14:45:56 <zodbot> smccann: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
14:46:23 <kirsti> lnovich yes
14:46:23 <lnovich> use the backslash
14:46:51 <lnovich> all agree to add the new section? grundblom?
14:47:53 <grundblom> an entire new chapter for uses? wouldn't that be mentioned / discussed in the overview / 101 section?
14:48:53 <kirsti> Isn't that the suggestion, a section to the 101 chapter?
14:53:44 <lnovich> yes - addint
14:53:47 <lnovich> adding that too
14:54:36 <lnovich> ok refresh your screens w/the outline as i changed some stuff
14:55:10 <lnovich> ok so chapter 2/3 Virtualization 101 - all set now?
14:55:15 <kirsti> Clear
14:56:06 <lnovich> I would like to move 3.6.1 to its own chapter
14:56:36 <lnovich> but keep some of 3.6 to just point out how the VM is protected from infecting the host and other guests
14:57:04 <grundblom> I can see that being useful
14:57:12 <kirsti> As you mentioned before, as for keeping 3.6 yes
14:57:42 <lnovich> ok so agreed on keeping 3.6 but moving all higher level discussions and features to another chapter?
14:57:53 <kirsti> yes
14:58:28 <lnovich> Another thing we need to look out for is that titles that are mentioned may not be in publication - we will have to make sure our references are actual Fedora Guides.
14:59:22 <lnovich> OK so chapter 2/3 Virtualization 101 - all set? do we all agree with the proposals made? please say yes or no
14:59:23 <grundblom> agreed
14:59:26 <grundblom> yes
14:59:30 <kirsti> yes
15:05:58 <lnovich> #agreed to change title of chapter 2 - to Virtualization 101 to merge with chapter 3, and to remove 3.2 and to remove 3.6.1
15:05:59 <grundblom> ack gotta run
15:06:04 <grundblom> dayjob stuff
15:06:12 <lnovich> ok run
15:07:05 <kirsti> lnovich better to continue next week then? to have more imput?
15:07:10 <kirsti> input even
15:07:21 <lnovich> I have plenty of input just not plenty of time
15:07:28 <lnovich> so we can carry on next week
15:07:57 <kirsti> ok, see you next week
15:08:03 <lnovich> I'll end the meeting now and we can pick up next week
15:08:07 <lnovich> #end meeting
15:08:13 <lnovich> #endmeeting