18:03:16 #startmeeting Fedora Docs Relnotes Sprint 18:03:16 Meeting started Thu Aug 27 18:03:16 2015 UTC. The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:03:16 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:21:01 * randomuser pings bcotton oob 18:28:42 randomuser|work: why can't I search for 'fedora_requires_release_note' on bz, what am I doing wrong? 18:29:16 I don't actually remember how to do it 18:31:15 * randomuser attempts to figure it out 18:32:58 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&columnlist=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate%2Cflagtypes.name&f1=flagtypes.name&j_top=OR&list_id=3760933&o1=substring&query_based_on=&query_format=advanced&v1=fedora_requires_release_note%3F 18:35:16 I'm working up an uglier one, even 18:39:22 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=POST&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=ON_DEV&bug_status=ON_QA&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=RELEASE_PENDING&bug_status=CLOSED&chfield=[Bug%20creation]&chfieldfrom=2015-05-26&chfieldto=Now&classification=Fedora&columnlist=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate%2Cflagtypes.name&f1=flagtypes.name&j_top=OR&list_id= 18:39:22 3760950&o1=anywords&query_format=advanced&v1=release 18:39:36 added https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1244725 basically 18:40:07 .. and I'm dropping the flag on that 18:44:58 all three, actually 18:46:12 so by your link nothing requires release notes? 18:47:53 no bugs flagged 18:48:11 ... there's nothing to be done by looking at flagged bugs right now, I mean 18:48:20 nice try though. 18:48:23 great! we are done! good release notes! 18:48:43 lets xml it all and pub 18:49:05 okay, so then its time to work the old way and just start working down the list 18:50:00 yup 18:52:33 * randomuser starts looking at workstation stuff 18:58:51 zoglesby, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1229395 19:00:56 see also https://www.jetbrains.com/buy/opensource/?product=pycharm 19:01:41 "Use of the software is restricted to the licensed user with no right to transfer the software to third parties." 19:03:38 I am not sure I know what is going on here anymore 19:04:10 I'm developing a strong distaste for doing relnotes, at least 19:04:30 and it's time to go back to work... I'll be back in a few hours 19:04:35 and for workstation 19:04:40 indeed 19:04:56 indeed, I am about to go get on a train, I will be back to work once I put kids in bed 22:08:22 hey mailga ! 22:11:23 hello randomuser we didn't say hello before leaving rochester. 22:12:00 we did not - I missed many people as they left 22:12:31 please forgive my social ineptitude :/ 22:13:15 randomuser: np, we'll meet again and say bye two times. 22:17:56 randomuser: do you think we shuld recap anything after the fed-join talk? I thinkthat the merge of the join steps is wrth to be discussed... 22:19:16 mailga, I think we should continue on with what we've been discussing. Whatever Sirko was going on about re: mentoring is completely foreign to me. 22:20:30 randomuser: ok. I'll send a mail in ML. A recap is useful. 22:20:41 cool. 22:20:49 mailga, have you come to help with release notes today? 22:21:17 how can I do? 22:21:43 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats?rd=Documentation_Beats is the overview page 22:21:57 anything new and awesome needs to go in there, some already has 22:22:53 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Beats_Redux is a somewhat useful guide on things to cover 22:23:06 also, all of the Changes need to be documented 22:29:50 I'm looking at that pages.... Here's late in the night, I'll continue tomorrow. 22:34:19 OK, no worries. 22:35:09 probably I'll have some question for you. 22:39:03 no, I don't have any cigarettes 22:41:21 ah ah ah ah ah, everyone in Rochester asked for cigarettes and/or one dollar.... 22:41:58 maybe they tought I'm rich... 22:42:07 in many cases I think they aren't even in need, they're just on their way to work or the store and ask people compulsively 22:43:35 we call it "psichosys".... 22:44:09 s/psichosys/psychosis 00:19:24 well I would be starting now if I could get logged into the wiki... 00:21:18 zoglesby, I was just about to start up a piratepad for "I already did that" - thoughts? 00:21:50 sounds good to me 00:23:19 http://piratepad.net/nIJTKEmI5c 00:25:47 cookie clearing dance and I am in the wiki... 00:27:44 I don't know what that first item in the piratepad is... 00:28:09 they have a "we should do this" wiki page 00:28:24 ~50 row table, two entries done, easy to check off 00:30:23 I'm also running a bunch of bash commands, so I set HISTFILE to something different and will refer to it next time 00:32:17 randomuser: Harden All Packages --> security? 00:32:40 sounds good 00:35:29 group is a funny word 00:37:37 hmm 00:38:04 nb, you can jump in at any time 00:38:08 * randomuser dangles badges 00:38:23 * nb wants badges! 00:38:29 what needs done? 00:40:06 nb, lots of things - is there a particular set of packages you'd prefer to research and cover, or would you prefer suggestions? 00:42:35 to write about stuff for release notes? 00:46:18 yes, that 00:46:37 * nb thinks 00:46:40 also, `dnf repoquery --changelog` doesn't exist. W.T.F. 00:46:49 * nb guesses he should read the release notes to see examples of what to do 00:46:56 i haven't looked at them in......... a few releases 00:48:18 skim https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Beats_Redux as well 00:48:34 right that link again... 00:48:42 randomuser: why is that in your private space! 00:48:56 zoglesby, because it's drafty 00:49:06 I had intended to make it much more comprehensive 00:49:11 okay I will buy that 00:50:04 eventually it could replace the existing beats category page 00:54:18 from anaconda changelog: "filesystems -> file systems, per the style guide" 00:54:28 somebody couldn't take the squiggly lines any more 01:00:29 randomuser: wiki syntax? 01:01:00 brain no workie 01:01:51 I dunno - *package* ? 01:02:12 I've honestly never used the conversion tools 01:02:25 :( I will just have to proof read a lot at xml time... 01:02:47 I have not used it since say 2009 maybe 01:03:22 Ive been doing the proofreading and conversion in one manual pass 01:04:32 I have been doing this for far to long, I just went back and look at the list of release page, recall to much 01:04:41 I'm done! SO LONG! 01:12:20 I wish that people would write better release notes section in thier change proposals 01:12:45 I don't want a two page list of changes 01:14:52 or better, an empty section 01:15:11 for some reason they think they're writing the actual relnotes copy 01:15:49 oh well, then I wont write anything for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default since they don't want anything :P 01:16:07 heh 01:16:43 That change is going to be recurring and meaningless until /usr/bin/python is python3 and python-module gives you python2 01:16:51 ...you know what I mean 01:17:35 wait what? I have not read the page yet. What is /usr/bin/python going to give you? 01:17:58 $ file `which python` 01:18:19 /bin/python: symbolic link to python2 01:18:40 it's just flagship software like dnf and anaconda moving to py3 01:18:45 that is on f23/rawhide/something newer than 22? 01:18:56 and the change owners asking really nicely for people to support py3 01:19:00 this is on f23 01:19:23 wow, so this is not a very good change title 01:19:54 third release running with a change of that title 01:20:40 skip! 01:20:46 come back later... 01:20:53 to much reading and thinking... 01:21:34 hey, while you're here - I often have problems with window focus 01:21:53 I have two firefox windows on a workspace, and can only type in one 01:21:55 only look at one window at a time 01:21:59 psh 01:22:16 I end up dragging a tab over to the functional window 01:22:53 try meta+k 01:23:01 that will move focus without the mouse 01:23:45 nope; meta+k to the other window, F6 to get in the url box, box of unfocused window is activated 01:24:02 hey, let's also use words like "on" and "see" a whole lot today 01:26:43 now that I think about it, how long have you been seeing it? I have been having odd issues with firefox since the last update. 01:27:04 months 01:27:14 hmm 01:28:11 what are your issues? there's a build coming into -testing today fwiw 01:28:46 address bar jumps out of place and moves to top of the screen when I start to type sometimes 01:28:56 that is the biggest one 01:29:21 heh 01:29:31 I blame gtk3 01:29:58 I have a fun one at work, probably due to some special plugin: all dialog boxes have a large nine digit pink number over them 01:30:12 I asked about it at work and was told 'use chrome' 01:30:16 it was lots of help 01:30:25 dropdown field? numbers. Tab area? numbers. Search box? numbers. 01:31:31 big pink numbers are fun 01:32:10 it gets entertaining 01:33:54 hey mhayden, anything for your packages we should put in the F23 relnotes? 01:34:25 hmm, nothing terribly remarkable 01:34:54 i'd like to get some of the drbd 9 stuff wedged in, but that requires some kernel love 01:35:32 python-pip and python-virtualenv got bumped to the latest versions -- but not groundbreaking :P 01:35:36 probably won't get much kernel love for the next month or two 01:37:58 well it's drbd that needs to do the work 01:38:01 rather, linbit 01:38:07 they need to upstream the drbd9 stuff 01:38:23 aahh.. that kind of love 01:50:30 neat, there are macros for golang now 02:01:43 zoglesby, if you're circling back to py3, do you want me to note packages that have gained py3 support? 02:02:05 or, moved to py3 default, or whatever? 02:02:13 you can take the whole thing if you want 02:02:38 ugh. fine. 02:06:53 okay, I don't get this 02:07:01 chroot accepts the new --skip-chdir option to not change the working directory 02:07:01 to "/" after changing into the chroot(2) jail, thus retaining the current wor- 02:07:01 king directory. The new option is only permitted if the new root directory is 02:07:01 the old "/", and therefore is useful with the --group and --userspec options. 02:07:19 so there's a new option that only works if I'm doing "chroot /" ? 02:08:05 Corey84, welcome, you're just in time to be put to work! 02:08:07 I don't understand why you would do that 02:08:30 I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist 02:08:43 I have already done that once or twice... 02:12:54 lol 02:13:10 in -meeting still for famna will be back on conclusion 02:16:01 what you got for me randomuser 02:16:27 linux-modder, we're doing relnotes - can you handle the container stuff? 02:16:56 sure might need some help with the selinux bit tho 02:17:18 np, whatever you can do is a big help 02:17:56 looking over it now 02:18:35 where did container get buried in relnotes for 22 02:18:38 linux-modder, put the notes in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Container_Beat 02:18:45 kk 02:18:58 I don't recall doing much on containers for f22, tbh 02:19:47 seems that way looks like it was missed :( 02:30:15 I am not having a very productive writing night, to many drafts before I like what I am saying 02:30:35 polish later, man 02:31:05 I'm knowingly dropping ugly notes in the wiki; the research is the hard par 02:31:13 part$ 02:36:06 zoglesby, rough draft .. worse case peer proof read is great 02:36:15 and informative for the 'class' 02:37:46 linux-modder, also we're using http://piratepad.net/nIJTKEmI5c to jot down items we've covered so they don't get done twice 02:41:03 nb: where did you go?!! 02:41:29 was in -meeting with me for famna 02:42:38 randomuser: where do we put https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Two_Week_Atomic? 02:42:54 linux-modder, nice to see mikedep## getting involved. he was a bit wide-eyed at flock 02:43:00 zoglesby, cloud product 02:43:13 ...or container? 02:43:18 really? it seems like it is its own thing now 02:43:34 two week release cycle, own website... 02:43:48 oh, it's own website? yeah, maybe 02:43:58 'This change moves Atomic away from the main Fedora 6-month distribution release, and instead to separate releases every two weeks on a new web site, http://atomic.fedoraproject.org/' 02:44:12 not that the link works right now 02:44:15 usage wise, I think it makes sense to put atomic with container info, or vise versa 02:45:56 cd .. 02:46:03 wrong window :( 02:46:20 linux-modder: /home/ 02:46:35 no.... recompiling qtox 02:47:37 Quintessential and Tonic? 02:48:11 no a chat client http://github.com/tux3/qtox 02:48:38 really wish it had less bundled nonsense tho 02:48:41 like ffmpeg 02:49:09 I am so out of touch with the world. "a Tox client" I don't know what that is 02:49:39 a chat client that bundles ffmpeg? 02:49:51 I think there's an emacs plugin for that 02:49:51 people talked about "tinder" at work, no idea, snapchat, etc. No idea what people do on the internet 02:50:07 well if there is an emacs plugin... 02:50:13 zoglesby, I think those are iPhone apps to help you get a divorce 02:50:57 randomuser: not sure how to respond to that, if I say "noted" that may imply that I need to keep note of this for later. 02:51:23 no tox clients (whichever one for OS of choice you use) are meant to be secure skype replacement 02:51:32 BIGBROTHER: I have no intention of getting a divorce! 02:51:32 you too can wallow in smarmy ignorance of such things 02:51:34 randomuser, lol 02:51:57 ashley madison anyone :P 02:52:18 tinder might as well be ashley madison app 02:53:35 I guess we're too old to be promiscuous on the internet 02:53:42 'Unicode 8.0 got released on 17th June 2015. It includes 41 new emoji characters.' YAY! 02:54:18 🙃 02:54:48 irssi must not support emoji, because I see nothing... 02:55:51 maybe it's a font thing 02:56:05 I wrote "smiley with 'ELITE' banner" 02:57:03 nothing... 03:00:51 oh, I forgot to install plymouth-theme-hot-dog on this box 03:00:55 * randomuser hangs head 03:02:37 lol 03:03:46 randomuser: I don't think I can talk to you ever again 03:03:54 zoglesby, just got back around to my fedora-web clone, initial evidence suggests no atomic.fp.o 03:04:25 It has not been made yet as far as I can tell 03:04:44 that's what I'm telling you 03:04:57 no, that is what I was telling you! 03:05:08 * randomuser growls 03:05:11 so what if you looked at more facts 03:05:15 quiet, linux-modder 03:05:17 facts are for fools 03:05:37 wait, *now* you tell me? 03:05:49 We could have been done with this by now 03:06:14 I don't want to put this in containers 03:06:42 its not a container, its the thing you run containers technology on (if you are cool) 03:07:01 it's only job is to have containers run on it 03:07:08 okay 03:07:17 put it in an atomic thing, and put the containers in the atomic thing too 03:07:21 sell the total solution 03:08:27 zoglesby, we just did a back-to-back its fail 03:08:33 it might be time to stop for the night 03:08:52 well I took the release notes out of that one and just hit paste, putting money on the fact that brockmeier wrote it 03:09:12 sound bet 03:09:30 brockmeier a bad writer? 03:09:38 "23:08 < randomuser> zoglesby, we just did a back-to-back its fail 03:09:39 " 03:09:41 what? 03:10:30 linux-modder: no he writes a lot, as in like as a freelancer for a while when he left SuSe 03:10:40 "its not a container" "it's only job" 03:10:55 iirc he has a journalism degree and everything 03:11:12 ah 03:12:30 we just make it up here as we go along, no degrees 03:12:44 well I mean I have one but it is in religion not journalism 03:12:50 (long story) 03:13:14 awesome 03:19:45 okay, I'm checking out for the night. @core and @critical-path-base are covered. I'll do the other critical path groups and tear into Changes tomorrow 03:20:19 okay, I am going to pack it up in a few as well 03:20:25 #endmeeting 03:20:29 nope! 03:20:32 randomuser: end it! 03:20:35 #chair zoglesby 03:20:35 Current chairs: randomuser zoglesby 03:20:39 #endmeeting