21:38:26 <mchua> #startmeeting
21:38:26 <zodbot> Minutes:        http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.html
21:38:28 <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.txt
21:38:30 <zodbot> Log:            http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.log.html
21:38:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Mar 14 21:38:26 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:38:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:41:07 <stickster> Thanks to any listeners!
00:36:39 <mchua> We've just gotten back to the hotel and are setting up in the antelounge for the Late Late Show
00:36:54 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_FAD_2010#The_optional_.27late_late_show.27_2
00:39:58 * rrix ches on mchua
00:40:01 <rrix> chews
00:43:46 <herlo> heh
00:44:30 <rrix> moin herlo
00:45:06 <herlo> ")
00:46:02 <mchua> nom nom nom.
00:46:12 <mchua> Everyone is the ze lounge.
00:46:23 * ke4qqq announces that we will start the late late show at 8:53:32 - or within a couple minutes thereof
00:47:27 <mchua> #topic prelude to the late late show
00:47:31 <mchua> cue the dancing monkeys!
00:47:32 <mchua> penguins!
00:47:33 <mchua> whatever!
00:47:52 <mchua> #chair yn1v rbergeron ke4qqq wonderer rrix VileGent stickster
00:47:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: VileGent ke4qqq mchua rbergeron rrix stickster wonderer yn1v
00:48:02 <mchua> Feel free to chair whoever else wants charin'.
00:48:06 <mchua> chairin'.
00:49:22 <ke4qqq> wow 100% attendance from the hotel crowd
00:50:47 <ke4qqq> #topic Late Late Show - What we will cover tonight.
00:50:55 <VileGent> gobby
00:51:03 <ke4qqq> there is a gobby session open
00:51:24 <mchua> We're going to talk about packaging
00:51:30 <mchua> the mechanics, maybe play with a sample spec file
00:51:33 <mchua> generate it into an rpm
00:51:33 <VileGent> samplespecfile.phpget.txt
00:51:39 * mchua transcribing David
00:51:52 <mchua> The hard part is when you have to integrate it into a distribution and follow the guidelines.
00:52:00 <mchua> If you don't care about doing it right, specfiles are easy.
00:52:14 <mchua> Paul: Doing it in a way that'll get it accepted is hard.
00:52:40 <mchua> David: I was making RPMs way before I got into Fedora, part of that was because I was the standard of excellence at work *laughs* and I didn't need to worry about getting it into Fedora.
00:52:54 <mchua> Anyway. The way RPMs are generated is that rpmbuild reads a specfile.
00:53:00 <mchua> That spec file looks at what needs to be installed, etc.
00:53:06 <mchua> so the first thing we're going to do is look at a spec file.
00:53:44 <mchua> *everyone looks at gobby doc that VileGent just pointed out*
00:54:04 <mchua> emacs and vim have specfile editing plugins
00:54:13 <mchua> depending on the IDE you use you might have it there too
00:54:33 <mchua> Within Fedora, sticking to the guidelines are the hard part.
00:54:37 <mchua> We'll talk about those later.
00:55:19 <mchua> stickster: the easiest way to get a skeleton is to run rpmdev-newspec
00:55:34 <mchua> it has a switch, -t for type
00:55:41 <VileGent> rpmdev -newspec
00:55:47 <mchua> whoops
00:55:52 <mchua> yep, typing
00:56:05 <mchua> VileGent: actually, no space
00:56:16 <mchua> [mchua@vorpal:~]$ rpmdev-newspec
00:56:23 <mchua> Skeleton specfile (minimal) has been created to "newpackage.spec".
00:56:27 <stickster> That's one command name
00:56:28 <mchua> (is what I get)
00:56:29 <stickster> rpmdev-newspec
00:56:33 <stickster> such as:
00:56:39 <stickster> rpmdev-newspec mypackage
00:56:58 <mchua> #info rpmdev-newspec is a useful command that generates a skeleton spec file
00:57:20 <mchua> #info making an rpm isn't hard; that means making a specfile that rpmbuild can read. Following the packaging guidelines is the hard part.
00:59:00 <mchua> Another good way of learning packaging is looking at packages that experienced people have already made, and copying them.
00:59:33 <mchua> Also, there are "lint" programs - rpmlint, <$foo>lint, etc - these are checking scripts that will run and try to catch little errors.
00:59:44 <VileGent> rpmlint finds bugs in your spec file
00:59:53 <stickster> And your binary RPMs and SRPMs
01:00:10 <mchua> #info rpmlint is a useful tool to check for bugs in your spec file, binary RPMs, and SRPMs.
01:00:34 <stickster> e.g.:   'rpmlint mypackage.spec mypackage-1.0-1.x86_64.fc13.rpm mypackage-1.0-1.fc13.src.rpm
01:00:36 <stickster> '
01:01:56 <stickster> Understand release tags -- numbering guidelines are found here:
01:02:32 <stickster> #info Release numbering is important, refer to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:NamingGuidelines
01:03:36 <rrix> #info %{foo} are macros
01:04:03 <stickster> #info %(something) is an evaluated shell command
01:04:16 <stickster> %(echo 'hi')  ==> hi
01:07:09 <stickster> #info Licenses should match the license of the code (don't forget to look for all the licenses)
01:07:22 <stickster> #info License codes for spec files are found at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing
01:08:28 <mchua> Is there a place that lists all the %{macros}?
01:08:58 <stickster> mchua: /usr/lib/rpm/macros and such
01:10:33 * ianweller is here and pingable, fyi
01:15:54 <stickster> The draft rpm guide has some detailed information about RPM: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/
01:20:22 <rrix> and there is the max rpm book
01:24:36 <stickster> rrix: Yepperes
01:24:39 <VileGent> ALL see http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Summit2008/ | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_an_RPM_package | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BuildingPackagesGuide | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging |
01:26:09 <rrix> #link http://www.redhat.com/docs/books/max-rpm/
01:53:24 <mchua> rbergeron: Did you want to talk about survey design sometime tonight?
01:54:16 <rbergeron> mchua: errrrgh. maybe?
01:56:06 <ke4qqq> rpmdev-setuptree
01:57:16 <mchua> rbergeron: if it's not the right time, or we're all too tired, that's totally ok, I just don't want to drop it if you want to do it
01:57:47 <stickster> #info stickster did a bunch of annotation of the spec file
01:58:23 <stickster> #info stickster's annotation is not nearly as good as what you find in spot's tutorial
01:59:05 <rrix> Nexuiz-data is 800MB :(
01:59:20 <rrix> This install better be finished REALLY soon :|
02:02:23 <mchua> Question that may have been answered earlier: line 17-19 of the specfile, is there an advantage to having multiple BuildRequires lines?
02:02:37 <mchua> iow, why not do "BuildRequires: dos2unix, foobar, yoyoyo2, blahblah, foobar3
02:02:40 <mchua> "
02:02:47 <mchua> instead of splitting it up over 3 BuildRequires lines?
02:03:29 <stickster> Link to source: http://launchpad.net/php-gettext/trunk/1.0.9/+download/php-gettext-1.0.9.tar.gz
02:04:10 <rrix> mchua: readability
02:04:16 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild
02:04:26 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild\SPECS
02:04:33 <ke4qqq> ^^ spec file goes there
02:04:38 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild\SOURCES
02:04:45 <ke4qqq> ^^ sources go there
02:05:42 <rrix> rpmbuild -ba <specfile>
02:05:51 <rrix> in 24
02:05:59 <rrix> oops, scratch that
02:06:30 <ianweller> mchua: if you have something that has about 30 BuildRequires, it's nice to split it over a few lines
02:06:44 <ianweller> mchua: i usually wrap everything in a spec to about 80 characters out of habit
02:06:52 <ianweller> unless i'm really lazy
02:07:03 <rrix> I group Requires and BR's kinda by groups
02:07:06 <rrix> BR: KDE stuff
02:07:15 <rrix> BR: appspecific stuff
02:07:18 <rrix> BR: other
02:07:22 <rrix> and the same for requires
02:07:40 <ke4qqq> so your srpms are: ~\rpmbuild\SRPMS\
02:08:04 <ke4qqq> and your rpms are in: ~\rpmbuild\RPMS\<arch>\
02:15:46 <ke4qqq> mchua: make sense? workforyou?
02:27:29 <mchua> worksforme, thanks!
02:27:35 <ke4qqq> mchua: awesome!!!
02:27:56 * stickster sees windows-isms from ke4qqq and laughs :-)
02:28:26 <ke4qqq> test ~/
02:28:33 * ke4qqq sucks
02:28:33 * stickster notices that now we have another ke4* nick in here and it makes his tab weird :-D
02:28:58 <stickster> Aha, another Nalley!
02:28:59 <stickster> awesome
02:29:33 <ke4qqq> rpmbuild -ba /ath/to/spec
02:30:21 <ke4qqq> ^^ builds both binary and source rpms
02:30:28 <stickster> -ba == build all
02:30:31 <stickster> -bb == build binary
02:30:40 <stickster> -bs == build source RPM only
02:31:10 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /ath/to/spec
02:31:22 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /path/to/srpm
02:31:25 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /path/to/rpm
02:31:53 <rrix> ke4qqq: and combinations :)
02:37:21 <rrix> .fasinfo pfrields
02:37:23 <zodbot> rrix: User: pfrields, Name: Paul W. Frields, email: stickster@gmail.com, Creation: 2005-04-13, IRC Nick: stickster, Timezone: America/New_York, Locale: en, Extension: 5100077, GPG key ID: BD113717, Status: active
02:37:27 <zodbot> rrix: Approved Groups: gitfedora-web sysadmin-test elections @gitjargon-buster sysadmin-tools +svnaccessibility-guide gitcorrespondingsource @gitrpmguide @gitboard @gitpulsecaster designteam @fedoraldc @fedora-board gitcsi sysadmin triagers sysadmin-noc cla_done web fedorabugs cvsfedora packager @docs ambassadors art +news cla_fedora @accounts torrentadmin disabled_torrent @gitrelease-notes bzrpython-fedora (1 more message)
02:39:35 <ke4qqq> more
02:39:40 <rrix> .more
02:39:41 <zodbot> rrix: @gitinstall-guide @gitabout-fedora @githomepage @gitreadme @gitreadme-live-image @gitreadme-burning-isos @gitfedora-doc-utils @gittranslation-quick-start-guide irc-support-operators freemedia
02:39:54 <rrix> ke4qqq: :)
02:39:57 <rbergeron> php-gettext.noarch: I: enchant-dictionary-not-found en_US
02:40:18 <rrix> note that isn't E: or even W:, it's I:, important
02:40:31 <rrix> so it's still running the tests, just skipping the spell check :)
02:46:24 <stickster> .bug 573716
02:46:25 <zodbot> stickster: Invalid Bug ID - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573716
02:46:29 <stickster> oops
02:46:32 <stickster> .bug 573516
02:46:34 <zodbot> stickster: Bug 573516 rpmlint should require hunspell-en - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573516
02:47:28 <rrix> yay4bugs!
02:53:34 <wonderer> bughug
03:01:39 <rrix> .bug 518817
03:01:42 <zodbot> rrix: Bug 518817 perl-Bit-Vector-7.1 is available - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=518817
03:02:38 <yn1v> finally I have uploaded pictures ... http://picasaweb.google.com/nacross/MarketingFAD2010
03:02:50 <rrix> .bug 508817
03:02:53 <zodbot> rrix: Bug 508817 Review Request: Limesurvey - An open source survey application - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508817
03:05:41 <ke4qqq> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/PHP#NamingScheme
03:10:28 <wonderer> yn1v: hurra, finally I saw how bad I look in the morning :-)
03:37:53 <mchua> See, not sleeping yet. :)
03:38:13 <ke4qqq> we expect regular pings to prove it
03:38:43 <ke4qqq> but but.....we are all guests
03:38:52 <ke4qqq> he brings out the good coffee when the guests leave
03:38:55 <ke4qqq> what??
03:39:09 <rrix> ke4qqq: :)
03:39:17 <rrix> good is subjective ;)
03:39:22 <rrix> I'll be thejudge!
03:39:32 * rrix gets ready for 4am jitters
03:39:37 <ke4qqq> even so - he brings out the coffee that is good in his mind when the guests leave
03:39:40 <ke4qqq> ?huh
03:39:55 <rrix> hah
03:39:59 <ke4qqq> you get less of that when you mainline caffeine - though freebasing is better
03:40:14 <rrix> "no one here, guess i'll put out the good coffee for 9 hours from now, so it'll be that bad then" :)
03:51:19 <mchua> are people starting to trickle out already?
03:51:21 <rrix> I hope you all sleep well, leaving me out here and all :(
03:51:24 * mchua sees rbergeron just got in
03:51:25 <rrix> mchua: I'm all that's left
03:51:32 <mchua> aww.
03:51:40 * rrix cries softly
03:51:57 * mchua sends a puppy out to be all happy and companionable
03:52:03 <mchua> (virtual invisible puppy, alas)
03:52:10 <rrix> just loud enough so that you all hear, but quiet enough that it doesn't attract undo attention
03:52:19 * rrix eats it
03:52:31 <rrix> wow, i'm tire. these cheez its are making me crazy
03:55:25 <rrix> rbergeron: smoking and not even putting down the computer? Now that is marketing dedication :)
03:55:59 <rbergeron> well
03:56:07 <rbergeron> more like nicotine dedication :\
03:56:17 <rrix> d'aw
03:56:33 <rrix> dedicate yourself to coffee
03:56:33 <rrix> instead
03:56:37 <rbergeron> lol
03:57:55 * rrix is done with his cheez its, hope i don't fall asleep out here
03:58:23 <rrix> this last yum -y install is 73 packages, hope this is nearly done :O
03:58:33 <rrix> a buttload of libs
04:00:55 <rrix> ke4qqq: you were right, not done :)
04:15:13 * mchua trying to finish last night's homework before sleeping today
04:15:25 <mchua> I'm definitely running into "the perfect is the enemy of the good" syndrome right now
04:16:08 <rrix> hehe
04:37:34 * rrix just gave the nightwatch a liveimage :>
04:42:34 <rrix> anyone around?
04:47:15 * hiemanshu is around
04:47:56 * threethirty is around
04:48:07 * mchua here
04:48:12 * mchua just finished f12 postmortem, blogging
04:48:26 * hiemanshu just woke up
04:49:01 <threethirty> i just got a new contributor to the FES
04:49:25 <hiemanshu> threethirty: FES?
04:49:43 <threethirty> Fedora Engineering Service
04:49:48 <hiemanshu> Ah nice
04:51:03 <threethirty> everytime someone mentions on identi.ca that they've switched I try to get them to contribute, i dont think im doing too bad
04:51:36 * hiemanshu isnt even on identi.ca
04:51:58 <threethirty> has anyone else noticed an exidous from $formerlyBrownDistro to Fedora in the last 6 months or so
04:52:23 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I have
04:52:57 <ianweller> because F12 was a rockin' release :)
04:53:51 <hiemanshu> ianweller: F12 failed for me at first though, I couldn't have KDE for a while :(
04:53:56 <threethirty> i think it might be new users that were brought in through that project that are just now comfortable enough to start distro hopping
04:54:00 <hiemanshu> threethirty: keep a watch here too http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23fedora
04:55:09 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I have been distro hopping for almost 2 years now
04:55:18 <hiemanshu> but my test machine is my spare laptop
04:55:30 <hiemanshu> I look at what they have that we should
04:55:58 <mchua> yah! http://blog.melchua.com/2010/03/14/marketing-f12-postmortem/
04:56:07 <hiemanshu> The only thing I really liked so far was Yast from openSuSE
04:57:03 <threethirty> my opensuse fanboi friend has complained in the past that yast was sloooooooooow
04:57:22 * ianweller turns off his thinkpad and packs it up for easyserv :(
04:57:26 <threethirty> he said its recently gotten better but that it was painfully so
04:57:55 <mchua> threethirty: re: getting new contributors to FES, rock on
04:59:07 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I like the idea and the frontend
05:00:11 * mchua now doing a blog post recap of today's FAD events
05:00:56 <threethirty> hiemanshu: also searching twitter is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack durring the zombie appocolypse just join one of these groups  http://identi.ca/search/group?q=fedora&search=Search
05:02:07 <threethirty> i dont think there are a lot of people that dont realize that the !tags are group tags and that everyone in that group gets that dent
05:07:39 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I ll have to make an account with identi.ca will do that later in the day
05:08:45 <threethirty> hiemanshu: its just like twitter but FaiF
05:11:15 <rrix> hiemanshu knows but vilegent and i were bitching at licenses :)
05:12:47 <rrix> ianweller: Hey, some wiki-fu for you... :) Figure out why March has 12k wiki edits so far this month (half through) as opposed to the normal 5k for the whole month... unless spevack already asked you to :)
05:13:11 <ianweller> rrix: check your backlog for #fedora-admin
05:13:24 <rrix> mchua: I gave that nightwatch guy a livecd, we should follow up to make sure he uses it :)
05:13:49 <rrix> ianweller: you're too awesome for me to keep up with ;)
05:14:02 <ianweller> hah
05:19:00 <hiemanshu> threethirty: created account, do we have a background for use with identi.ca ?
05:23:31 <mchua> #link http://blog.melchua.com/2010/03/15/marketing-fad-day-2-brand-folks-visit-actionability-brainstorm/
05:23:36 <mchua> rrix: nightwatch guy wha?
05:23:46 <rrix> mchua: the guy at the front desk
05:24:04 <rrix> i was cleaning up the vent box and he's all "lol wazzup" but like an old guy
05:26:52 <mchua> oh nice.
05:27:01 <mchua> Are you guys back in your rooms now? I didn't see anyone at the lobby.
05:37:11 * hiemanshu has to leave
05:37:13 <hiemanshu> bye guys
05:37:20 <rrix> nini
05:37:28 <rrix> mchua: yeah, i'm in here chatting with vilegent
05:37:54 <rrix> we tried working on his package, it has a messy license and some stuff to throw at ke4qqq
05:38:37 * mchua wonders where Robyn went.
05:40:12 <rrix> eh?
05:40:20 <rrix> smoke?
05:40:33 <mchua> Long smoke, if thta's a smoke.
05:40:38 <mchua> er, long smoke, if that was a smoke.
05:40:58 <mchua> I can't type, I'm scrunched on one of the room sofas which means my right arm is pinned up against the seatback.
05:42:00 <rrix> :/
05:42:00 <rrix> do we want to grep for her?
05:42:28 <mchua> mebbe?
05:42:37 <mchua> rbergeron: le ping, where art thou?
05:43:25 <rrix> vile and I just turned out the lights, lemme know if we wanna go `grep ~hotel -name "rbergeron" -exec drag --to bed {} \;'
05:43:31 <rrix> wow, that must mean I'm tired :D
05:47:49 <rrix> heh http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/449381662/brycied00d-wait-how-do-you-really-feel-about
05:49:11 <mchua> hah
05:49:12 <mchua> nice.
05:50:46 <threethirty> lol that is awesome
05:52:14 <rrix> "Ben Williams (in response to Nelson Marquez’s comment that Fedora is the son of Red Hat): “I would say Fedora is the father to RHEL.” Paul Frields: “And the son has an incredibly lucrative job.”" <-- didn't he also mention incest? ;)
05:55:33 * rrix has a feeling the mythical Ben Williams snore is gonna keep him awake. it wasn't this bad last night
06:02:38 * rrix &
06:15:12 <threethirty> lol
11:46:39 <ke4qqq> rrix: spevack mentioned incestuous relationship.
11:49:10 <rrix> moin
11:49:18 <rrix> ke4qqq: ah
11:52:17 <heffer> what?
11:52:19 <heffer> :D
11:53:30 <ke4qqq> heffer: it's in the transcripts or gobby docs one
11:53:37 <heffer> okay
11:53:42 <ke4qqq> or wherever gobby docs have been transferred to
11:53:44 <rrix> transcripts
11:54:10 <rrix> ke4qqq: update finished at ~3am
11:54:12 <rrix> :D
11:55:43 <ke4qqq> rrix: were you still up nursing it? or just find out when it completed
11:56:06 <heffer> breaking news: Nostradamus' works clearly indicate that Ryan Rix is trying to infest the world with pwnies. Also, where he says 'the mouse in Raleigh will shy away / the lion's roar is as dust' he means that Paul Frields is threatening Max Spevack. The lion is Felix Kaechele who is trying to protect Mel Chua from Ryan Rix with little sucess.
11:56:46 <rrix> ke4qqq: stuck it into `time` before bed :)
11:56:52 <rrix> then did the math
11:56:57 <ke4qqq> ahhh awesome
11:57:40 <rrix> I'm not /that/ crazy :)
11:57:42 <rrix> heffer: LOL
11:57:58 <ke4qqq> there is a guy with a squirrel in the lobby
11:58:01 <rrix> argh, i have to rebuild gnome-color-manager
11:58:03 <heffer> generated with http://www.alchemica.co.uk/conspire/discover.html
11:58:17 <ke4qqq> apparently caught from within the hotel
11:58:25 <ke4qqq> o_0
11:58:43 <heffer> or: Obviously Ryan Rix is carrying out a covert war against the armies of Max Spevack in Raleigh. Very soon Paul Frields, who is currently only supplying weapons to Ryan Rix, will join in. Mel Chua has a number of nuclear devices hidden in Red Hat Offices which Paul Frields is trying to steal to help win the war and infest the world with pwnies. We must help Felix Kaechele to stop them, or we are all doomed!
11:58:44 <ke4qqq> showing it off to the front desk
11:58:53 <rrix> heh
11:59:31 <rrix> ... fuck, this reinstall blew away my virtuoso database :(
12:00:03 <ke4qqq> you had backups - right
12:00:14 <rrix> not of ~ no
12:00:20 <rrix> it'll just reindex, i guess
12:03:22 <ke4qqq> squirrel just made a reappearance
12:03:27 <rrix> for proper amount of lulz, see commnet 6 of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=550887
12:12:59 * mchua blinks, goes "aww, too late to go to best buy"
12:13:13 <ke4qqq> mchua: what are you going to best buy for?
12:15:29 <mchua> SD card.
12:25:19 <mchua> Ok, heading out to ze lobby.
12:25:21 <mchua> Nom.
12:27:25 <heffer> nomz
13:05:29 * rrix|konv pouts
13:10:27 <VileGent> ke4qqq, http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpzip/
13:10:32 <wonderer> gooooooooooood morning everybody
13:10:39 <VileGent> grumble
13:10:40 <spevack> stickster_afk: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/1644096067.html
13:10:43 <VileGent> grumble
13:12:59 <ke4qqq> does this look like adding additional conditions to the license?
13:13:08 <ke4qqq> http://fpaste.org/u0bR/
13:15:22 <rdieter> ke4qqq: looks that way to me
13:15:24 <mchua> Okay, restarting logs
13:15:27 <mchua> #endmeeting