02:26:48 #startmeeting 02:26:48 Meeting started Sat Nov 15 02:26:48 2014 UTC. The chair is tuanta. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:26:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:26:51 zodbot: .fasinfo alick 02:27:08 #chair gnokii siddhesh_ zsun alick 02:27:08 Current chairs: alick gnokii siddhesh_ tuanta zsun 02:27:17 #topic Roll call 02:27:23 .hello tuanta 02:27:24 tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' 02:27:31 .fas gnokii 02:27:33 gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' 02:27:44 #chair hanthana 02:27:44 Current chairs: alick gnokii hanthana siddhesh_ tuanta zsun 02:28:00 .hello amitshah 02:28:01 amitshah: amitshah 'Amit Shah' 02:28:09 * amitshah is remote 02:28:56 .hellomynameis alick 02:28:57 alick: alick 'Zhao Tao' 02:29:09 hanthana, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/events 02:29:14 #chair amitshah 02:29:14 Current chairs: alick amitshah gnokii hanthana siddhesh_ tuanta zsun 02:29:20 thanks siddhesh_ 02:29:28 #chair IzharFirdaus 02:29:28 Current chairs: IzharFirdaus alick amitshah gnokii hanthana siddhesh_ tuanta zsun 02:33:38 #info there are some useful links today: 02:33:42 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/events 02:33:50 #link https://www.piratepad.ca/p/FADPhnomPenh2014 02:38:10 #chair somvannda 02:38:10 Current chairs: IzharFirdaus alick amitshah gnokii hanthana siddhesh_ somvannda tuanta zsun 02:40:00 thanks tuanta 02:48:03 gnokii to start with an opening note on what he thinks (as a non-asian) the situation is in APAC 02:49:23 asia has a very high population compared to emea/apac, but they're still a minotiry in terms of contributors 02:49:53 if we're arranging a FAD, we need to create a deadline, which is not happening currently 02:50:24 #topic Sirko's notes 02:52:08 the situation is different in asia, but that cannot be used as an excuse all the time 02:52:59 by deadline I assume it's about not hobbling together a FAD and announce it say 2 weeks in advance? 02:53:43 -> meeting protocol exist, APAC meetings is like a bazaar, disorganized and confusing 02:53:55 amitshah, it means setting deadlines for various activities in the FAD, like registration, etc. 02:53:58 -> follow the meeting protocol 02:55:07 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_public_IRC_meetings#Meeting_protocol 02:56:28 apac communities in silos (india, vietnam, cambodia, etc.). That needs to change 02:56:55 we're fedora first, then apac and then vietnamese, cambodians, chinese, etc. 02:57:01 tuanta speaks: 02:57:17 the bigger problem in meetings is that people don't attend them regularly! 02:58:11 (gnokii): that's because the meetings are not productive 03:01:59 sorry for droppin in late 03:02:05 .hellomynameis zsun 03:02:06 zsun: zsun 'Ziqian SUN (Zamir)' 03:07:31 siddhesh_ is speaking 03:11:17 #chair zsun 03:11:17 Current chairs: IzharFirdaus alick amitshah gnokii hanthana siddhesh_ somvannda tuanta zsun 03:11:30 cross border/visa problem in APAC is different from EMEA. it is more difficult to travel around APAC 03:13:24 gnokii speaking: FUDCon in May is too short. it is not enough time to prepare it well 03:16:58 siddhesh: indian contributor community is fairly large in comparison in comparison to the rest of apac 03:17:29 and we are open to the idea of running workshops, online and personal programs across apac 03:17:37 hanthana speaks: 03:18:11 suggest: have more sub-region meets, like indian subcontinent meetings, etc. 03:21:11 gnokii: good idea but don't want to divide the communities a lot 03:21:24 == Suggestions to avoid VISA and travel cost issues: == 03:21:25 each sub reagion has common issues and may easy to resolve them together. 03:21:25 Running Sub-regional 03:21:25 China/Vietnam/Singapore/Indoonisia/Cambodia 03:21:25 India/Sri Lanka/Nepal/etc 03:21:25 Australia/New Zeland 03:26:23 * hanthana will speak about Singapore after Malaysia 03:27:35 alick: there have been progress in contributions in China, but the lack of contributors is still a problem 03:28:02 not much communication among chinese contributors 03:32:14 (gnokii) discuss more about sub-conferences on sunday 03:34:46 need more involvement from RH china 03:35:12 somvannda speaks: 03:35:23 the problem is the same here: lack of contributors 03:35:44 people generally use ubuntu/opensuse because of better user interface 03:37:17 easy access to pirated software 03:38:50 good thing is that university is teaching fedora in final year 03:41:11 Hi everyone, I'll join the discussion in FAD remotely 03:41:33 hi nangthang. you are welcome 03:44:42 #topic situation in each country 03:47:46 siddhesh to help somvannda with curriculum for a linux course in the university 03:49:07 correction: university is *planning* to teach fedora 03:50:17 nice 03:56:43 IzharFirdaus speaks: 03:57:10 malaysian contribution has been good for the last 10 years, but it is reducing 03:57:30 we're losing developers to startup groups 03:57:53 nobody cares about the OS anymore 03:57:58 it's only apps and stacks 03:58:21 yea, problem here too 03:58:38 still trying to figure out how to promote fedora in this changing climate 03:59:04 apps need backends; clouds can run on fedora-related tech, like openstack and openshift 03:59:19 of course we also have all the ruby, java, python etc stuff via SIGs 04:01:45 amitshah, yes, that's the case in malaysia too, fedora contributors helping all SIGs, but that puts Fedora itself in the background 04:03:28 hm; so perhaps the next FUDCon APAC should have a way to ensure those people are interested in attending - special mentions for enabling those SIGs, their devs and users. 04:03:47 we'll think about this after the FAD 04:07:39 #chair azneita kushal 04:07:39 Current chairs: IzharFirdaus alick amitshah azneita gnokii hanthana kushal siddhesh_ somvannda tuanta zsun 04:09:10 also in .my .. packaging things in docker is more interesting than packaging things in rpm xD 04:09:30 hanthana is speaking about Singapore situation 04:09:48 hanthana speaks (as singapore ambassador): 04:10:05 7 ambassadors in singapore 04:10:14 planned about 9 events for 2015 04:10:45 https://www.piratepad.ca/p/FADPhnomPenh2014 04:11:03 all of us have now given a quick summary of things going on in the apac region 04:11:16 alick has mentioned the key points in the piratepad above 04:11:44 those attending remotely, do you have any points you all would like to add? 04:12:31 I think situation in India is similar; interest in docker; openstack; apps 04:12:44 one way it's a good thing that stuff is happening "upstream" 04:13:05 but fedora can get irrelevant because these new technologies try to make things distro-agnostic 04:13:37 the server/workstation/cloud product split could help alleviate that a bit by ensuring we put out a good cloud distro so people want to try fedora on the clouds 04:13:46 and then we get some contributors to cloud and server that way 04:14:08 yeah 04:14:23 hopefully 04:14:24 The main point is about technical contribution. 04:14:29 but we need to think + discuss more about this during our regular meets 04:14:35 ie keep it an ongoing conversation 04:15:12 and I doubt the situation is geo-specific; EMEA and NA would have a similar effect 04:15:42 kushal: IzharFirdaus mentioned people are now more interested in apps/stacks/docker than fedora proper 04:16:31 amitshah, true but I always say to students "unless you learn the Operating System well, you can not go ahead into deeper technical things." 04:17:00 amitshah, For industry apps/stacks/containers are priority. 04:17:00 kushal: I think there's a "who cares? I can write an app and make money today" attitude 04:17:16 amitshah, yes, only thing is there is no money :p 04:17:21 :) 04:17:41 :) 04:17:55 kushal: embedding ads / in-game purchase/whatever is alluring. 04:18:14 kushal: and flappy bird showed how getting lots of money with little input is possible 04:18:25 amitshah, I mean the app should be good enough to get money. 04:19:07 amitshah, Someone who never saw proper code and never worked in bigger projects, can not just become a super programmer overnight. 04:19:09 for .my .. on the platform level .. those who are still interested are companies that have their own private cloud .. everyone else just host their stuff on cloud -> and not care about platform anymore 04:19:40 in all cases, we can make attractive to some of them (who really interested in computer science), not all of them 04:19:46 kushal: I fear these new "frameworks" where you can drag+drop things and create a new app out of nothing very easily. 04:20:00 it's like visual basic all over again 04:20:06 amitshah, correct but those can not become flappy bird :) 04:20:37 kushal: for people not in the know, there's no difference :) 04:20:43 * zsun afk for a while 04:21:02 btw .. anybody working on that project to merge hadoop and openshift ? 04:21:03 xD 04:21:10 tuanta, I am talking not for computer science but in general the knowledge about how computer works. 04:21:41 kushal, that is useless from a contributor perspective 04:22:08 siddhesh_, But to get new contributors that is important. 04:22:13 sure 04:22:29 anyway, do you guys think there are any points that were missed in the meeting? 04:22:41 I visited a college in Pune recently to talk about Fedora; they didn't know what 'reboot' meant, because Windows uses the term 'restart' 04:22:44 and these were computer guys. 04:22:47 (meeting so far that is) 04:23:00 amitshah, please tweet that :p 04:23:00 amitshah, :) 04:23:03 lol 04:23:29 * azneita is catching up with notes 04:24:11 siddhesh_: we can move on; not sure any major topic is uncovered 04:24:22 kushal: you have my permission to tweet it :) 04:24:30 amitshah, I will. 04:25:18 amitshah, what is your twitter handle? 04:25:33 kushal: don't have one; you can use amitshah.net instead 04:25:53 amitshah, Okay 04:26:57 #topic Discuss events over the next FY 04:27:08 i wonder 04:27:35 how about a docker repository, of apps that are built using the fedora cloud core? .. 04:28:34 IzharFirdaus, We already have https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles 04:28:47 ah cool! 04:28:52 kushal, didnt know about that .. thanks! 04:30:51 * alick everyone on piratepad, plz add your name by clicking the top right corner :) 04:32:19 Every year we are also organizing online summer training from dgplug, idea is to get more upstream contributors. 04:32:44 Many active contributors from India came up from this training. 04:33:16 kushal++ 04:34:36 Of course Fedora is the primary distribution there. 04:36:03 What is going on there? 04:36:38 kushal, see my #topic command 04:36:43 which zodbot has ignored ;) 04:36:54 haha 04:37:21 #topic Discuss events over the next FY 04:37:34 * kushal kicks zodbot 04:38:11 Okay, fedmsg is telling us that the topic has been changed. 04:38:21 But that never happened in real life. 04:39:54 (gnokii) we need to figure out what to do with upstream events like rubyconf, pycon, etc. 04:41:20 We need proper presence there. 04:41:31 To attract more developers. 04:41:52 kushal, yes, the question what kind of presence 04:42:19 booth with server and workstation products showing? 04:42:24 plus stickers/badges/etc 04:42:28 siddhesh_, visual, with people who are upstream contributors to various projects and also fedora people. 04:42:55 amitshah, also cloud :) Devels are on that too :) 04:43:48 (gnokii) more preferable to have a booth than just a speaker 04:45:24 siddhesh_, yes but we need technical people in those booths. 04:46:57 absolutely 04:48:02 discussing: garden city rubyconf: $0 since it is local event 04:49:24 clarification: swag is completely out of the event table. The table only covers accommodation and travel. 04:49:56 local travel (local bus tickets) are also not covered 04:51:21 so do you mean that the event page is for possible attendance 04:51:45 zsun, the cost that fedora can cover for possible attendance 04:52:06 get it 04:53:20 the 'owner' col stands for event owner, or possible guys who can set a booth in the event? 04:53:29 yes 04:53:30 seems Jan-Feb event shuld be added here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget:2015#Q4_.28Dec_2014_-_Feb_2015.29 04:53:37 and its too late 04:56:26 we're skipping over all events in the current FY since they don't affect next year's budget 04:56:37 so we'll soon start discussing fossasia 04:57:15 ok 05:02:37 * alick lose connection to piratepad :( 05:02:56 alick: me too 05:03:00 me too 05:03:50 504 Gateway Time-out 05:03:53 fossasia is important as not many devel focus meetups in asia. 05:03:56 let's take notes in irc for the moment 05:04:39 I just trying to add an idea to pad: set up a page of "what you should know and do if you run a booth for Fedora at events" 05:05:26 siddhesh_: zsun's idea above 05:05:54 gnokii: should support fossasia but maybe not that much money 05:07:13 we should balance money we put in and the outcome we get 05:08:21 .fas mpduty 05:08:22 mpduty: mohanprakash 'Mohan Prakash' - mpduty 'Mohan Prakash' 05:12:17 good morning everyone :) 05:13:10 good morning banas! 05:13:14 FYI: Harish is part of FOSSAsia organizing comity 05:14:07 hi botreynisa :) am I too late? 05:14:50 yeah... you're little bit late but that's fine! 05:15:55 kushal: aren't you also an organizer at fossasia? 05:16:09 amitshah, This year yes. 05:16:40 amitshah, as I can see that is the biggest even in APAC where devels can meet other than LCA 05:16:48 and it's gonna be in singapore 05:17:02 and travel for LCA is not possible with super rich sponsors :) 05:17:03 we can play host :) 05:17:20 Didn't see Kushal's name there fossasia.org 05:17:24 kushal: there's also linuxcon japan 05:17:41 siddhesh_: we could look at linuxcons - japan and korea too in the future 05:17:51 hanthana, they will add it, they are waiting for me to send in photos. 05:18:02 kushal, nice :) 05:18:56 good morning everyone! 05:19:54 hello mpduty :) kushal, hanthana and azneita too! 05:21:14 i think gnokii and kushal should talk to Harish as he is putting money to FOSSAsia 05:21:32 we may save money. 05:22:04 hanthana, Red Hat and Fedora's budget are different 05:22:13 hanthana, Red Hat will not pay for our travel 05:22:14 kushal, yes, that is why 05:22:38 siddhesh_, for speakers and other things, Red Hat will not sponsor. 05:22:59 but Harish already told us during the Fedora Singapore meetup held on 13th November 05:23:29 he did not ask me to add FOSSAsia to get APAC budget 05:23:30 hanthana, I don't know what he told. 05:23:57 hanthana, without the budget how speakers are supposed to travel? 05:24:01 (gnokii) get singapore ambassadors to run the fedora booth in fossasia 05:24:03 it will go against osas budget, technically fedora 05:24:12 most of Fedora Singapore activities will be covered by Harish's RH budget 05:24:37 hanthana, there will be many international speakers from Fedora 05:24:42 we already planned 9 events and only FAD Singapore 2015 will come under Fedora APAC budget 05:24:54 kushal, ok 05:25:33 kushal, fossasia foots the bill for speaker travel and stay, like oher speakers 05:25:36 hanthana, Then there will be no Fedora contributor/developer presence in fossasia as I know none from Singapore. 05:25:57 siddhesh_, last Fedora paid for the same. 05:26:02 last year. 05:26:18 Heherson and me already there 05:26:23 kushal: wait; as an organizer, do you think fossasia is going to pay for speaker travel+acco? 05:26:36 kushal, gnokiithought that the 'fedora track' was badly organized 05:26:55 and hence we didn't get the return for the money that we spent 05:26:59 siddhesh_, Yes, we are also in fault for same. 05:27:26 siddhesh_, This year there will be a generic Linux track and we should participate in that. 05:27:44 amitshah, Last year they did it with help from Fedora. 05:27:54 amitshah, Like Mozilla paid for their speakers 05:27:57 kushal, as speakers, makes sense. but I think we should get fossasia to sponsor it like all other speakers 05:28:07 as much as possible 05:28:30 siddhesh_, Fossasia sponsor Fedora speakers too, but they filled all the required tickets etc to Fedora to get the money. 05:28:51 for staying iirc. 05:28:52 kushal no! 05:28:58 gnokii, Okay. 05:29:04 I might be wrong. 05:29:17 My point is to have enough presence in that. 05:29:20 kushal, you are wrong 05:29:25 kushal: as long Mario plays a role inside fossasia, I am not willing to support that event anymore 05:29:57 kushal, we are talking about there are 5-7 ambassadors already in Singapore 05:30:08 tuanta, How may developers? 05:30:21 tuanta, fossasia tracks are devel focused. 05:30:26 * many 05:30:40 tuanta, I know ambassadors will do their jobs. 05:30:49 but we need technical speakers. 05:31:01 kushal: Harish, azneita, hanthana, and some other local people there 05:31:22 kushal: with 7 Ambassadors in Singapore we will havea booth 05:31:24 + our friends from Malaysia 05:31:27 kushal, technical speakers should be sponsored by fossasia 05:31:30 not fedora 05:31:37 they're providing value to fossasia 05:31:47 tuanta, Sorry to say but most of the apac ambassadors are not technical enough. 05:32:03 +1 05:32:09 I'll have to agree with kushal and siddhesh here. 05:32:12 siddhesh_, Understood, but if they can not pay, what then? 05:32:23 siddhesh_, I am agreeing to you btw. 05:32:32 just want to cover all aspects. 05:32:50 kushal, yes, for that I propose we have a budget of ~$2000 to sponsor them 05:32:54 what fossasia is devel focused? 05:33:04 in which movie are you sitting 05:33:24 gnokii, because many devels come there and meet. 05:33:28 fossasia 2015 will be especially for "garment industry" I can show you 05:34:31 gnokii, :) 05:34:45 lets talk about fossasia at the end since it is taking so much time 05:34:53 so and fedora has nothing to do with the "garment industry" 05:35:00 siddhesh_, with that money we can sponsor around 4 speakers if required. 05:35:12 next up, barcamp kampot/siem reap 05:35:24 kushal, yes, lets discuss that later 05:35:30 Okay 05:38:19 someone should type in the points in the channel 05:38:32 or else we know nothing 05:39:03 yep please do so - it's difficult to follow otherwise :) 05:39:23 * siddhesh_ is trying! 05:39:31 while talking at the same time... 05:39:42 btw, is this the right piratepad https://www.piratepad.ca/p/FADPhnomPenh2014? 05:40:21 piratepad is finicky 05:41:49 ah, i found that listed on the wiki, so I was checking to see if there was something on it - where are you documenting the summary then? 05:43:09 alick, ^^ 05:43:29 banas: currently on the wiki. 05:43:33 s/wiki/irc/ 05:43:34 oops 05:43:49 alick ah alright 05:43:51 piratepad does not work for the moment. 05:44:28 so what's being discussed now? 05:44:48 banas, barcamp at kampot/siem reap 05:45:09 alright, waiting on updates :) 05:46:19 cost for the barcamp to be covered by the company 05:46:52 s/the company/ somvannda's company/ 05:47:27 set $50 aside if a booth is allowed at the barcamp 05:52:52 FYI, piratepad is back 05:57:18 Discussing all of the Freedom Days (SFD, DFD, HFD, etc.) 05:57:42 suggestion: set a budget of $1000 for each of those events 05:58:17 i.e. all SFD celebrations funded from the $1000, at about $50 or so per event 05:59:03 ( hanthana) suggest increase budget for SFD since it is more popular 05:59:21 SFD budget $2000 06:00:20 breaking for lunch 06:00:56 when will you start afternoon? 2pm PP time? 06:01:35 lunch should not be that long. 06:01:41 ok 06:05:31 /exit 06:31:55 we'll resume in ~10 minutes 06:34:35 alright, waiting, I need to run for lunch soon :) 06:41:07 banas, we'll be discussing rubyconf india next, so if you have something in favour of the event then you could mention that before you go for lunch 06:41:28 siddhesh_ yep, I was waiting for that. 06:41:29 i.e. what kind of support is needed (speakers, booth) 06:43:00 I just added it to the wiki recently, so I'm not 100% sure of their arrangements yet. But we have an unpopular Ruby SIG in Fedora and was wondering if it would make sense to show our presence at rubyconfs 06:43:30 * alick piratepad is back! 06:43:46 I don't know a lot of people who're Indian, Rubyists and in Fedora, so I don't think we will have much speakers. 06:44:00 unpopular? do you mean 'not popular'? 06:44:29 ah, TIL they're different things :D 06:44:35 yes :) 06:44:36 yep i meant not popular 06:45:08 ok, resuming now. 06:46:04 I haven't met anyone at a rubyconf before who said they were part of our project, so I just added me as the owner for the moment. 06:46:52 but I was thinking if we could showcase that we have areas (for eg some apps) that could be done in ruby and could use contributors, we can manage to grab some at rubyconf 06:47:17 esp since they're kind towards students they select and even provide mentors to help them get started 06:49:15 * zsun attending by voice and can hear some of your saying (although not clear enough) 06:49:19 (gnokii) we should support our people if they wish to speak at rubyconf 06:49:49 (siddhesh) the avg cost of return flight is $200 within the country 06:50:19 yep, that's right 06:51:29 (gnokii) $500 is probably too much 06:51:36 would be good to showcase what ruby work happens in Fedora (if any); plus there's openshift, which is built on rhel, which has an active ruby community 06:51:48 amitshah that's correct. 06:51:56 all openshift tools (rhc) are written in ruby 06:52:01 not sure if openshift community is really active. 06:52:13 and they are moving towards docker, with Go 06:54:01 zsun: but at a ruby conf, it's nice to point out how fedora is inovlved with it 06:54:15 agree on this point. 06:54:18 zsun: and openshift is one of the projects that indirectly uses fedora 06:54:41 zsun: can be made more direct, of course 06:54:47 which such conferences can help with 06:55:40 gnokii, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Rheinfelden_2013#Agenda 06:55:48 botreynisa, ^^ 06:58:18 siddhesh_/anybody else: what's being discussed? 06:58:25 looking at the emea budget for an indication of how much we ought to spend 06:58:26 RubyCon 06:58:38 ah alright :) 06:58:38 ooops. 06:59:29 we've agreed on $250 for RubyConf 06:59:41 great, thank you :) 07:00:23 banas: who said its for you? 07:00:42 ;-) 07:00:48 I'll follow up later - I have to run for lunch and we need to plan stuff for tomorrrow's fedora camp here, so I'll come back. 07:01:00 gnokii: I thanked him for the update 07:01:13 XD 07:02:21 next up: OSDC: http://osdc.tw/ 07:02:26 botreynisa, ^^ 07:05:39 I think we have ambassadors in Taiwan. 07:06:01 So maybe we need to talk direct with those guys 07:06:18 we've agreed on a budget of ~$300 07:06:45 +1 zsun 07:06:58 zsun, can you take that action? 07:06:59 we need to encourage taiwanese ambassadors to get more involved in this 07:08:04 tuanta: I can try since Alick will be pretty busy for this year. 07:08:48 #action zsun try to community with Ambassadors in Taiwan for events such as OSDC 07:08:55 next up: hong kong open source conference: http://2015.opensource.hk/ 07:09:33 (gnokii): alick should go there 07:09:51 OS HK The CFP maybe in Dec 07:12:34 gnokii suggests two ambassadors to be there 07:12:41 yes I hear that 07:15:45 $1000 to arrange for two ambassadors from china to join them 07:16:14 oh,ok. 07:17:01 next up: Fedora Community Engagement, hanoi 07:17:40 (tunata) it is a local event, so 0 budget needed. 07:18:41 +1 siddhesh 07:19:00 next up: Nha Trang IT Week 2015 07:19:34 (tuanta) $250 enough for one person 07:20:23 $250 agreed for Nha Trang IT Week 07:20:42 next up: rootconf: https://rootconf.in/2014/ 07:20:43 next: https://rootconf.in/2014/ 07:24:03 Keep aside $300 for travel/stay for a couple of speakers. Work with Red Hat for a top-up to the budget if needed. 07:24:30 Next up: BarCamp Battambang 07:24:55 good afternoon everyone 07:24:59 ( somvannda ) the booth costs about $50 07:25:28 (gnokii) the booth only makes sense if there are 2 people there 07:25:36 so both somvannda and botreynisa will have to travel 07:26:49 botreynisa won't be traveling 07:28:49 $150 for travel and stay for a person + booth 07:32:30 * mpduty is listening 07:34:37 Next up: PyCon APAC https://tw.pycon.org/ 07:35:03