03:57:00 <tuanta> #startmeeting
03:57:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Nov 16 03:57:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is tuanta. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
03:57:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
03:57:26 <tuanta> #topic FUDCon
03:58:35 <tuanta> #idea (gnokii) it is best to have the location of the next FUDCon to announce at the current FUDCon
03:59:14 <tuanta> #info this topic would be back later
03:59:40 <tuanta> #topic Events and Activities in FY2016
04:00:43 <tuanta> #info Release Parties and some other events added, so the total planned now is $25,500
04:00:49 <alick> we will talk about topics such as swag, premium goodies(t-shirts), paypal transaction fee.
04:00:57 <alick> zsun: do we miss anything?
04:01:08 <alick> I can not find my log yesterday
04:01:27 <tuanta> alick, which logs?
04:01:41 <tuanta> this one? http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2014-11-15/fedora-fad.2014-11-15-02.26.html
04:02:41 <alick> tuanta: oh yeah, thx you :)
04:02:47 <zsun> alick:  sorry that I am doing sth else just now
04:04:03 <zsun> you'd better offer tuanta and other offline guys chair so that they can help you
04:04:07 <zsun> alick:  ^^
04:04:17 <tuanta> #chair zsun alick
04:04:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: alick tuanta zsun
04:04:44 <tuanta> #chair gnokii siddhesh somvannda_ botreynisa banas KageSenshi hanthana amitshah_
04:04:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: KageSenshi alick amitshah_ banas botreynisa gnokii hanthana siddhesh somvannda_ tuanta zsun
04:06:10 <siddhesh> the event table is now updated with budget amounts
04:06:35 <tuanta> #topic Swags
04:06:54 <siddhesh> we had two additional late entries, one for an open source developer event in vietname ($200) and Fedora release parties ($2000)
04:07:07 <siddhesh> so the total is now at $25,500
04:09:59 <siddhesh> staring with the simpler swag
04:10:15 <zsun> I suggest we raise more ideas on swag
04:10:45 <siddhesh> gnokii showing some swag emea produced this year: stickers, case badges, pens, pins and badges
04:11:09 <zsun> In China before, we usually send out DVDs and stickers, but they are less popular and DVD is a little bit expensive
04:11:18 <zsun> great.
04:12:22 <alick> ( gnokii ) DVDs are a bit complex, so skip it now
04:12:43 <siddhesh> (gnokii) t-shirts are expensive, so we may not have budget for it
04:12:50 <zsun> oh
04:13:16 <zsun> coins is a great idea if possible
04:13:22 <zsun> I'll find the ticket for that
04:13:38 <siddhesh> zsun, how much do they cost?
04:13:48 <zsun> not sure
04:13:59 <zsun> I just find that from design team wiki
04:14:04 <zsun> s/wiki/tickets
04:14:33 <zsun> https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/171
04:19:54 <alick> https://www.piratepad.ca/p/FADPhnomPenh2014
04:20:16 <zsun> here is the photo of the keychain we produced this year for SFD https://zsun.fedorapeople.org/pub/photos/SFD2014-photo-of-keychain-and-dvd.JPG
04:24:55 * zsun afk for a while
04:26:11 <alick> zsun_afk: ?
04:26:38 <zsun_afk> ?
04:26:50 <zsun_afk> alick:  just ready to leave
04:27:02 <alick> zsun_afk: how much is one keychain you made?
04:27:16 <zsun_afk> about CNY 2
04:27:29 <zsun_afk> but postage is not covered since it is heavy
04:27:44 <alick> CNY 2 = 1/3 USD
04:27:57 <zsun_afk> yes
04:28:30 <alick> ( gnokii ) suggests focusing on swags like pins, buttons, case stickers.
04:28:38 <zsun_afk> +1
04:28:59 <tuanta> #info keychain produced at CNY 2 ~ US $0.33
04:29:37 <zsun_afk> I'll find other affordable swag within China during the following events in China
04:35:25 <tuanta> #idea produce swags in Red Hat Singapore for easier shipping it to other countries (similar to what EMEA doing)
04:42:01 <siddhesh> it would be cheaper to produce all swag in one place and ship everywhere, subject to customs
04:42:30 * zsun_mob on mobile
04:42:49 <zsun_mob> we should consider the postage if so
04:43:54 <zsun_mob> and what can/can't be posted by customs
04:45:05 <siddhesh> #action all ambassadors to come up with the cheapest quote for swag
04:45:06 <tuanta> Shipping DVDs is a problem in Vietnam since customs need to check if there is any bad information inside
04:45:15 <zsun_mob> such as, dvd is not allowed to be posted into and outof China
04:45:32 <alick> zsun_afk: yes?
04:45:34 <tuanta> zsun_mob, there same here
04:45:43 <alick> zsun_afk: then how ubuntu free media works in the past?
04:46:02 <alick> zsun_mob: then how ubuntu free media works in the past?
04:46:19 <zsun_mob> very few
04:46:32 <zsun_mob> especially after2010
04:46:53 <zsun_mob> before
04:46:55 <alick> OK
04:46:58 <alick> got the idea
04:47:13 <zsun_mob> before 2009it works well for cn
04:47:14 <alick> actually DVDs are losing popularity anyway
04:47:23 <zsun_mob> yes
04:47:41 <zsun_mob> and not cheap (4cny at least)
04:54:45 <alick> talking about event boxes
04:56:08 <zsun_mob> yeah
04:56:17 <zsun_mob> i like that idea
04:57:13 <alick> gnokii is against the idea since it does not work in Europe
04:58:18 <zsun_mob> and 've been thinking build my own one for events for a long time
04:58:34 <zsun_afk> ooops
04:59:55 <zsun> alick I personally thinks it is a good idea. but I think it should be kept in one place that always holding events, just like we gather event resources into your lab.
05:02:45 <siddhesh> business cards for ambassadors:
05:03:00 <siddhesh> they can pay for it themselves if they feel the need for business cards
05:03:11 <siddhesh> not covered by the fedora budget
05:03:31 <zsun> I pay for my own since it is not expensive and not reasonable to ask for budget
05:08:09 <botreynisa> in Phnom Penh the business card cost only 7$-8$ for hundreds
05:08:46 <somvannda_> me too, i paid my own
05:08:46 <zsun> about usd $4-8 for about 500 pcs
05:08:55 <somvannda_> that's cheap
05:10:55 <alick> making actions about collecting price info about swags
05:11:02 <zsun> ok
05:11:08 <alick> setting the deadline to Jan 1st 2015
05:11:15 <zsun> ok, sounds good
05:11:21 <zsun> enough time for me to dive in
05:16:01 <alick> it will be lunch time soon
05:16:09 <zsun> ok.
05:16:23 <zsun> you can end the call or keep it as-is.
05:16:43 <alick> somvannda_ suggesting reserving budget for unplanned event
05:16:51 <zsun> good idea
05:16:54 <alick> gnokii is against the idea.
05:16:59 <zsun> o?
05:17:31 <zsun> if we've planned everything, it's ok
05:27:53 <somvannda_> im afraid that we will miss some importance opportunities
05:32:24 <amitshah_> I'm late, but on the DVD issue: most new laptops / desktops don't come with optical drives; let's just keep a few blank DVDs and burn them ourselves if there's need for someone?  These days, downloading 1G of isos isn't a huge deal, too.
05:32:39 <amitshah_> saves on production cost
05:46:37 * alick lunch time
05:47:17 <zsun> ok
06:43:51 <siddhesh> ... and we're back from lunch
06:44:01 <siddhesh> we'll soon start talking about transaction fees
06:44:11 <siddhesh> #topic transaction fees for reimbursements
06:47:33 <tuanta> #info estimated swag cost is about $9,500 and media cost is about $8,500 then the total now is $43,500
06:48:02 <tuanta> #idea we should cut it down to a half by setting the priority for each item
06:48:45 <siddhesh> transaction fees are too high currently. 4.4% + $0.3
06:48:52 <zsun> ooops
06:48:56 <zsun> such high
06:50:00 <siddhesh> action talk to FPL to get a letter that we are a non-profit, which paypal will accept to waive the transaction fees
06:50:07 <alick> siddhesh: use #action
06:50:15 <siddhesh> #action talk to FPL to get a letter that we are a non-profit, which paypal will accept to waive the transaction fees
06:50:15 <tuanta> #action talk to FPL to get a letter that we are a non-profit, which paypal will accept to waive the transaction fees
06:50:21 <tuanta> #undo
06:50:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by tuanta at 06:50:15 : talk to FPL to get a letter that we are a non-profit, which paypal will accept to waive the transaction fees
06:55:36 <alick> ( gnokii ) some countries like cambodia simply do not accept paypal
06:59:32 <zsun> withdraw from Paypal to CN bank account will take USD $35 + bank fee I think. (fees caused by USD--CNY not included)
07:02:33 <tuanta> zsun, but what you do not want to be included is the biggest one, I think :)
07:04:34 <zsun> I just not familiar with transaction since most of the times Alick handle it before.  Now I just keep money in paypal so that I do not lose any
07:06:02 <zsun> tuanta:  yes. What I do not want is $35
07:23:51 <KageSenshi> #action talk with FPL if we can get a US western union account that is attached to KageSenshi's credit card .. need a US phone number to register one
07:24:43 <tuanta> #idea opening another PayPal account for Izhar using his community card but an US account which includes the feature to cover transaction fees by sender
07:25:26 <zsun> alick and others, firefox hello dropped so I can just attend by IRC now
07:25:27 <KageSenshi> tuanta, that might trigger security alert in paypal -> 2 account with same card number
07:25:45 <tuanta> KageSenshi, no. I did that normally
07:26:01 <KageSenshi> tuanta, 2 account with same credit card?
07:26:07 <tuanta> #idea other idea is we can collect all PayPal transaction fee receipts then get that difference reimbursed once per year
07:26:12 <tuanta> KageSenshi, yes
07:26:25 <KageSenshi> hurm ok
07:26:50 <tuanta> KageSenshi, or you can close the old (MY) PayPal account before open a new one (US)
07:27:04 <KageSenshi> tuanta, same email?
07:27:17 <tuanta> I don't think so
07:27:36 <tuanta> it is not difficult to get another email address
07:28:11 <tuanta> it could be apac-cc@f.o or something
07:29:05 <tuanta> we even can have more people to share the same responsibility to make reimbursement
07:29:26 <tuanta> by sharing that PayPal account
07:29:59 <zsun> but in that way we should consider account security.
07:30:39 <tuanta> yes, zsun. but it is the same (high) level as giving cc to someone
07:31:05 <tuanta> that should be trusted people
07:31:44 <zsun> I do not mean people. I consider mostly the network and software env
07:32:09 <tuanta> ok, let discuss as we have only one person
07:32:29 <zsun> since we can control who knows the account. But it'll be harder to make sure that their network is safe enough
07:32:36 <tuanta> it is exactly the same as the current situation
07:32:41 <zsun> ok
07:33:05 <tuanta> we still need to use PayPal
07:38:47 <siddhesh> #topic materials
07:39:16 <siddhesh> find out who has what materials
07:41:02 <somvannda_> Materials Inventory Link: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/Materials
07:41:11 <siddhesh> #action ambassadors to coordinate addition of materials they have to the inventory list ^^
07:41:45 <siddhesh> #undo
07:41:45 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by siddhesh at 07:41:11 : ambassadors to coordinate addition of materials they have to the inventory list ^^
07:41:59 <siddhesh> #action ambassadors to coordinate addition of materials they have to the inventory list: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/Materials
07:42:41 <siddhesh> add pictures of the materials too
07:46:33 <siddhesh> #action tuanta to bring up branding for smaller contributor/developer related events.  (siddhesh): Call them Fedora Contributor Meetup or Fedora User Meetup?
07:46:44 <siddhesh> #undo
07:46:44 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by siddhesh at 07:46:33 : tuanta to bring up branding for smaller contributor/developer related events.  (siddhesh): Call them Fedora Contributor Meetup or Fedora User Meetup?
07:47:03 <siddhesh> #action tuanta to bring up branding for smaller contributor/developer related events at the FAMSCo meeting.  (siddhesh): Call them Fedora Contributor Meetup or Fedora User Meetup?
07:47:16 <alick> zsun: do you have a ticket waiting for approval?
07:47:22 <zsun> yes
07:47:39 <zsun> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/162
07:47:49 <tuanta> #action tuanta to bring up branding for smaller contributor/developer related events at the FAMSCo meeting.  (siddhesh): Call them Fedora Contributor Meetup or Fedora User Meetup?
07:49:08 <zsun> alick: it joint event as I told you.
07:50:56 <alick> ( gnokii ) suggest apac tickets are not suitable topic for this FAD
07:51:10 <zsun> ok
07:51:21 <zsun> so I'll have to wait
07:51:26 <alick> ( gnokii ) tuanta or KageSenshi should be able approve it directly if it is not too much
07:51:50 <tuanta> say, less than $300
07:51:59 <tuanta> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Reimbursement
07:52:56 <alick> zsun: you do not need to specify so many digits in USD. that does not make sense.
07:53:07 <alick> like 16.269USD ...
07:53:09 <zsun> oops. Ok.
07:53:23 <zsun> I will avoid this the next time
07:53:37 <alick> zsun: when is the event?
07:53:48 * tuanta will do right now, zsun :)
07:53:50 <zsun> Nov 29th,
07:54:45 <zsun> 29th, if there is no issue with the hall.  We'll announce it as soon as we find the proper place
07:54:50 <KageSenshi> zsun, can you put up a wiki page, or some website / link with details of the event? (or something that'll assure me that it is a real event)
07:55:32 <zsun> ok. And I'll do this later (maybe later today or tomorrow) since now I have difficulties in accessing websites
07:55:36 <KageSenshi> 29th nov.. thats really near, you have time to announce the event?
07:56:56 <zsun> KageSenshi: We've been preparing for this for about two weeks. And we already start to communicating with LUGs already
07:57:43 <zsun> so I think we have enough to do so.
08:00:33 <alick> I think the current topic is free discussion ;)
08:00:43 <zsun> thanks
08:23:06 <zsun> amitshah_: I think you mentioned OpenShift yesterday. If available, I'd like to know what's your idea of having Fedora more direct involving in OpenShift
08:28:03 <KageSenshi> +1
08:30:56 <KageSenshi> zsun, possibly for .my and certain markets .. where devs are more interested with stack & apps rather than platform .. we need to figure out a way where we can get contributors in this new landscape
08:33:42 <zsun> KageSenshi: as you may know, OpenShift is on Amazon AWS, which is not working well within mainland China. And I just wonder if OpenShift is really an active community and if they really treat Fedora related bugs in consideration enough. As I know, most Fedora related bugs for OpenShift are Low/Low
08:34:25 <KageSenshi> zsun, openshift 'community' right now is primarily RH employees i  think ..
08:34:55 <KageSenshi> openshift origin -> you can run on your own private platform
08:35:25 <zsun> KageSenshi: Yes, I think so. I seldom see active push from community
08:36:13 <KageSenshi> in place like .MY .. where people doesnt care about OS anymore ... i dont see much to recruit besides getting ppl to use OpenShift
08:36:32 <KageSenshi> devs here mostly dont manage their own infra anymore
08:36:45 <KageSenshi> everything is either on AWS or Heroku
08:36:48 <KageSenshi> or some cloud service
08:37:12 <KageSenshi> fedora (and bunch of distro) communities are becoming irrelevant in current market
08:37:17 <KageSenshi> at least here
08:37:24 <KageSenshi> i mean .. at least in .MY
08:37:37 <zsun> OS is less popular here in .CN too.
08:38:05 <KageSenshi> people now cares about tools, stacks and apps
08:38:17 <KageSenshi> OS is just a platform to run these tools, stacks and apps
08:38:52 <KageSenshi> i want to see if theres ways we can use openshift to keep ourselves relevant
08:39:27 <zsun> KageSenshi: so maybe it's a good idea to document how we can use OpenShift in Fedora well?
08:39:57 <KageSenshi> using openshift or running openshift? XD
08:40:15 <zsun> Running, of course XD
08:40:18 <KageSenshi> using openshift in fedora -> the docs on the rhc command in openshift.com is good enough
08:40:19 <KageSenshi> XD
08:40:31 <KageSenshi> the rest is just -> devs focus on developing apps ..
08:40:39 <KageSenshi> git push .. openshift handle the rest
08:40:40 <KageSenshi> XD
08:41:04 <KageSenshi> also .. openshift origin is built for CentOS mainly XD
08:41:42 <KageSenshi> fedora is too fast of a moving target for development of enterprise cloud platform ..
08:42:08 <KageSenshi> (which, from conversation with harish .. is one of the reason RH now sponsoring CentOS)
08:42:10 <zsun> Yes I know that well.  Before Red Hat announce to sponsor CentOS, they build OpenShift Origin on Fedora 19
08:42:23 <zsun> I think so, and so do oVirt
08:42:47 <KageSenshi> RH need a stable platform for driving the development of enterprise add-ons to RHEL ..
08:42:58 <KageSenshi> openstack, ovirt, openshift etc
08:44:03 <zsun> I'll meet an OpenShift Dev next month. Hope I can get more info from him
08:44:24 <KageSenshi> yeah ... this existential issue is bugging me in .MY
08:44:33 <KageSenshi> i run Python event -> lots of attendees
08:44:39 <KageSenshi> i run Fedora event -> 5 ppl
08:44:43 <KageSenshi> -_-"
08:45:24 <KageSenshi> it kills the motivation .. and i'm somewhat holding the fort of fedora.my
08:45:53 <KageSenshi> as everyone else moves on to the stacks/apps startup communities
08:46:51 <zsun> it's not an openshift event next month. Just a personal meetup. So I can have free talk with him. And it is the same in most events in .CN . Most guys for OS related meetings are Sys Admins rather than Dev
08:47:38 <zsun> while SysAdmin focus more on CentOS/RHEL rather than Fedora. It's horrible for local community
08:47:43 <KageSenshi> yeah
08:48:26 <KageSenshi> zsun, if you get useful input from that dev .. do tell me
08:48:36 <zsun> I will
08:49:01 <KageSenshi> at the moment, i see openshift (and to some extend, bigdata) is the only way for us to remain relevant
08:51:12 <zsun> cloud and big data is the trend these days, while we are not sure how to keep it up with Linux communities. I hope if the Cloud SIG or Bigdata SIG do have some idea
08:52:14 <KageSenshi> http://hortonworks.com/blog/openshift-v3-kubernetes-docker-hadoop-yarn/
08:52:22 <KageSenshi> openshift v3 is going to run on hadoop XD
08:52:59 <KageSenshi> the challenge of cloud/bigdata brought to the OS communities like us is that it turns OS transparent to the users
08:58:48 <zsun> it's not a bad thing for users, but not a good news for communities.  community members in .CN I think mostly are users rather than sys admin or dev. So it's even worse
08:59:41 <KageSenshi> yeah
09:04:06 <tuanta> #topic Distributing Ambassador Polo Shirts
09:04:55 <tuanta> Now we will distribute them as noted in the wiki
09:05:00 <tuanta> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD:PhnomPenh_2014/shirts
09:05:30 <tuanta> #idea ( siddhesh ) with some reserved ones for new ambassadors (in each country)
09:06:33 <tuanta> #idea ( gnokii ) EMEA send a new polo shirt for a new ambassador. He/she needs open a Trac ticket to request
09:07:25 <tuanta> #idea ( gnokii ) and in EMEA, ambassadors get a new one after each three years (because the old one is too old)
09:12:33 <KageSenshi> #idea ( siddhesh ) kick butt of vietnamese ambassadors
09:12:42 <siddhesh> #action kicking butts of vietnamese ambassadors ;)
01:48:11 <tuanta> #endmeeting