13:28:39 <nirik> #startmeeting Changing the default updates model
13:28:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Aug 11 13:28:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:28:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:29:07 <nirik> Current updates model. A fire hose.
13:29:17 <nirik> Users get bombarded by updates.
13:29:28 <nirik> Many things don't make sense to end users.
13:30:00 <nirik> Many may ignore updates when things are 'working'
13:30:14 <nirik> PackageKit doesn't give them a good experence
13:30:19 <nirik> How to solve that problem.
13:30:40 <nirik> testing current updates is per package. Sometimes groups, but usually one package.
13:31:03 <nirik> Many packages don't get enough testing to go to stable updates.
13:31:18 <nirik> Problems: too many, too often, etc
13:31:31 <nirik> An alternate proposal.
13:31:40 <nirik> Minimize times they have to care about updates.
13:31:51 <nirik> Monthy update bundles.
13:32:13 <nirik> Roll all stable updates into a monthy bundle.
13:32:50 <nirik> Whats in that bundle is open to discssion.
13:32:55 <nirik> could be critical path.
13:33:42 <nirik> sun moved away from this model.
13:34:00 <nirik> Caused problems. People manually went back to that model with their own work.
13:34:17 <nirik> Security updates
13:34:39 <nirik> security goes out as it does now.
13:34:55 <nirik> change the interface to get people to actually apply them.
13:35:18 <nirik> question: did we think about auto applying them?
13:35:23 <nirik> answer: will discuss more later.
13:36:47 <nirik> talk more about applying things that are critical.
13:38:20 <nirik> more discussion. Could we tie updates to info from the system.
13:38:52 <nirik> User experence:
13:39:05 <nirik> applications. Users don't care about libraries and other stuff.
13:39:37 <nirik> info on bundles should be minimal but should inform about bugs fixes in the bundle.
13:39:55 <nirik> ties into gnome software center.
13:40:05 <nirik> making updates easier to consume.
13:40:21 <nirik> Should be one click, just do it. Runs in background.
13:41:13 <nirik> summarize the updates... translate the summary.
13:41:59 <nirik> Improve testing.
13:42:18 <nirik> Not going to tell QA how to test it
13:42:30 <nirik> Test the bundle not just single packages.
13:42:54 <nirik> This is not going to replace karma
13:43:24 <nirik> This plan doesn't do:
13:43:32 <nirik> - doesn't change core bodhi.
13:43:37 <nirik> - maintainers do the same process.
13:44:29 <nirik> Things it needs:
13:44:43 <nirik> - when a bundle exists and how to handle it.
13:44:52 <nirik> - tools to make bundles
13:44:58 <nirik> - tell clients about it.
13:45:05 <nirik> - qa testing support.
13:45:42 <nirik> This will be the new default.
13:46:13 <nirik> The old setup is completely available.
13:46:52 <nirik> question about what will be in bundles and how about the rest.
13:47:49 <nirik> can be optional after the bundle
13:48:32 <nirik> tweaking
13:50:29 <nirik> users may want faster updates for some specific things.
13:51:28 <nirik> Additional ideas that could be added on based on this.
13:51:44 <nirik> Application specific features:
13:51:50 <nirik> update on launch
13:52:08 <nirik> test applications on launch (help test updates-testing versions)
13:53:49 <nirik> Talk about rollbacks
13:56:35 <nirik> <discussion about how to prompt users>
14:00:34 <nirik> folks talking about security updates auto applying.
14:00:37 <nirik> pros and cons.
14:00:56 <nirik> when to prompt users and when not to bother them.
14:02:44 <nirik> questions and answers.
14:03:16 <nirik> speed of updates flow will slow way down?
14:04:24 <nirik> updates on bugs will still tell them how to run yum to get it.
14:06:04 <nirik> Things will need more testing.
14:08:04 <nirik> Idea: get users who help with QA on bundles help write summary/notes.
14:10:06 <nirik> Idea: some way to automated send back 'everything seems ok' from people using updates-testing.
14:12:12 <nirik> Question: is 1 month too agressive.
14:12:28 <nirik> Answer: want to try and start agressive and dial back.
14:13:27 <nb> nirik, automated "everything seems ok", is that something like fedora-easy-karma?
14:13:29 <nb> or truly automated?
14:14:23 <nirik> automated... for people who run updates-testing and don't report problems but don't have time to run fedora-easy-karma
14:14:34 <nirik> possibly via census.
14:14:51 <nirik> talk about testing the bundles. Probibly not karma.
14:15:01 <nirik> #endmeeting