15:32:57 <qubodup> #startmeeting
15:32:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Aug  9 15:32:57 2013 UTC.  The chair is qubodup. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:32:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:34:15 <qubodup> ...so, our focus was on systems for enterprise use and a side interest became raspberry pie
15:34:25 <qubodup> I will tell you about a naming story that we encountered
15:34:31 <qubodup> . when naming a product
15:34:43 <qubodup> you look for memorable, searchable, distinct and non-offensive names
15:34:56 <qubodup> this is where open source is a little bit different, where you deal with global stage
15:35:09 <qubodup> where you can't put diferent labels on it. you need global names
15:35:21 <qubodup> so if you can't  recommend/find/share/use it, it's a trademark fial
15:35:39 <qubodup> in terms of searchability - this is something new. C# didn't think about searchability
15:36:03 <qubodup> kvm was another problems, the acronym has been used before that for years
15:36:15 <qubodup> you need somthing that is unique enough
15:36:43 <qubodup> as for itentity there's a challenge to balance between alignment between different, you want to evoke ties and emotion
15:36:47 <qubodup> but you also want uniqueness
15:36:59 <qubodup> .. you want to uniquely claim a space
15:37:18 <qubodup> .don't offend. it's easy to pick an offensive name. it's hard to pick a nonoffensive name
15:37:35 <qubodup> there's plenty of commercial trandemark disasters
15:37:41 <qubodup> let me tell a story
15:37:54 <qubodup> we wanted to remix fedora for raspberry
15:38:06 <qubodup> our challenge was to release fedora for raspberry
15:38:23 <qubodup> small graphics processor, small memory, small space, wanky ARM processor
15:38:49 <qubodup> this was a v6 process, which nearly nobody else used
15:38:59 <qubodup> we prepared v5 and v7 in the fedora arch group
15:39:12 <qubodup> we decided to take v5 and adapt it for raspberry pie - fedora remix
15:39:20 <qubodup> challenges were that we didn't have the final board
15:39:23 <qubodup> it wasn't the same
15:39:32 <qubodup> even after release, we didn't have actual boards
15:39:43 <qubodup> there were substantial delays in getting the hardware
15:39:54 <qubodup> ...qemu simulation scenarios...
15:39:58 <qubodup> it was buggy, not surprisingly
15:40:06 <qubodup> there was some rought stuff in the beginning
15:40:20 <qubodup> there was a group that took debian for v6
15:40:27 <qubodup> we were lapped by them
15:40:31 <qubodup> which was good
15:40:48 <qubodup> we said that we care about the device, so it'd be great to have fedora there
15:40:56 <qubodup> we didn't like the name, it was too long (feodra remix)
15:40:59 <qubodup> too long
15:41:01 <qubodup> confusing
15:41:03 <qubodup> poor searchability
15:41:15 <qubodup> you get a lot of stuff unrelated
15:41:35 <qubodup> but there was no designated raspberry pie fedora arch
15:41:40 <qubodup> so we started thinking of new names
15:41:55 <qubodup> to make it clear that it's different from original raspberry pie fedora remix
15:42:05 <qubodup> suggestion was: pidora
15:42:24 <qubodup> it seemed weird but many people were fine with it
15:42:30 <qubodup> so we started to consider this a posisble name
15:42:59 <qubodup> a russian team member gave a small warning saying it sounds like a different word but didn't think it would be a problem.
15:43:33 <qubodup> fedora trademark guidelines does not allow play on words but I tried anyways
15:43:53 <qubodup> spot tried it with the lawyers and they said it's only ok if we register it as a trademark
15:43:59 <qubodup> pidora was then approved
15:44:14 <qubodup> red hat leagl is clearly awesome
15:44:24 <qubodup> pidora.ca generously osted by bluehost
15:44:47 <qubodup> *hosted
15:44:59 <qubodup> the raspberry pi foundation mirrored it
15:45:17 <qubodup> on release day we noticed that russian web traffic dominated
15:45:29 <qubodup> we did not understand what this meant
15:45:47 <qubodup> one of the emails pointed out a russian meaning of the word
15:46:15 <qubodup> we got: threads of doom, bug reports, emails for and agains....
15:46:50 <qubodup> ... we decided we need to make a statment
15:46:59 <qubodup> we put a small link on the website to a statement about the name
15:47:17 <qubodup> we were seeking an alternative name for russia
15:47:20 <qubodup> (n)
15:47:39 <qubodup> the overwhelming concensus with russian speakers was thet the name needs to be changed asap
15:47:45 <qubodup> we couldn't change on a dime
15:48:03 <qubodup> options were global name change and russian-specific version
15:48:30 <qubodup> the second being weaker but more viable
15:49:09 <qubodup> there is a large raspberry pi user commmunity in russia. so we working on the second option
15:49:34 <qubodup> we created modules for firstboot
15:50:05 <qubodup> we ran into interesting discussions
15:50:17 <qubodup> we asked for new names in the russian community
15:50:39 <qubodup> they came up with a name that didn't sound russian, they suggested fedberry
15:50:48 <qubodup> we didn't want to do the legal dance again
15:51:49 <qubodup> we were thinking of a re-release which the changes we made
15:52:20 <qubodup> one of the big challenges was that the most helpful russian contributors weren't technologically grounded enough to do the needed localization changes
15:52:46 <qubodup> f19 pidora release - this is where we hope to get the changes in
15:52:52 <qubodup> we are a small research group
15:52:55 <qubodup> 5 people
15:53:12 <qubodup> the ratio of 5 to 2million raspberry pi users intimidated us
15:53:19 <qubodup> and made us more timid
15:53:38 <qubodup> I learned: if we had discussed the name more openly, the community could have done what we could not
15:53:52 <qubodup> give feedback about regional implications for example
15:53:58 <qubodup> not doing that was one of our major faults
15:54:00 <qubodup> lesson learned
15:54:08 <qubodup> we'll engage the community earlier
15:54:18 <qubodup> also release early release often
15:54:21 <qubodup> this was our story
15:54:28 <qubodup> i was wondering if any of you had problems
15:54:36 <qubodup> "rdo has a number of problems"
15:54:43 <qubodup> "it's a farming manifacturer company"
15:54:48 <qubodup> "rdo is not searchable"
15:54:53 <qubodup> "it also doesn't stand for anything"
15:55:16 <qubodup> "the decision was to not have 'red hat' in the name any more, which is where it stopped having a name"
15:55:33 <qubodup> "I don't have a soultion. that's the situation i'm in"
15:55:43 <qubodup> does rdo rpesent any other challenges
15:55:51 <qubodup> "no, no offensive problems"
15:56:18 <qubodup> "we have conversations about coming up with new meanings but no solution yet"
15:57:14 <qubodup> "snope, gnova..."
15:57:15 <nb> what is rdo?
15:58:34 <qubodup> "0ad has the problem of knowing how to spell it when you hear it"
15:59:01 <qubodup> rdo http://openstack.redhat.com/Main_Page
15:59:11 <qubodup> RDO is a community of people using and deploying OpenStack on Red Hat and Red Hat-based platforms.
15:59:26 <qubodup> **...talk continued...**
15:59:50 <qubodup> can you propose any other names how to vet a name for an open source project?
16:00:08 <qubodup> "is there a list of foss naming?"
16:00:17 <qubodup> "I know we have a fedora marketing list"
16:00:35 <qubodup> it would be difficult to attract enough different people in different contexts...
16:00:44 <qubodup> "withing apache foundation we have an incubator"
16:00:48 <qubodup> "one of the steps is naming"
16:01:08 <qubodup> "projects will go through a phase where the name is tested mostly for trademark violation but also appropriateness
16:01:11 <qubodup> "
16:01:15 <qubodup> "apache might be a good resource"
16:01:27 <qubodup> "another thing that has happened. we named projects in local languages
16:02:04 <qubodup> for example a sri langa or sahili names, because core contributors were speakers"
16:02:16 <qubodup> I wonder if transifex community would be a place to do it
16:02:41 <qubodup> " you are talking about searchability, not search engine optimization?"
16:03:09 <qubodup> " i think there should be a list of rules for names"
16:03:20 <qubodup> "I feel i learned just listneing"
16:03:40 <qubodup> "google has a safe search. it'd be interesting to compare safe search and nonsafe search results"
16:04:24 <qubodup> we couldn't have searched for pidora though
16:04:51 <qubodup> "another question, what you end up doing is keeping the trandemark everywhere except russia?"
16:04:54 <qubodup> yes
16:05:07 <qubodup> "the reason is because you already did the work of spreading the name?"
16:05:26 <qubodup> there was a lot of effort. with enough time we could have recalled the name
16:05:36 <qubodup> but we decided to keep it for most of the planet
16:05:51 <qubodup> pidora.ca
16:06:01 <qubodup> thank for hearing my story and brainstorming with me
16:06:05 <qubodup> on potential better solutions
16:06:11 <qubodup> Questions?
16:06:41 <qubodup> "about pidora, not naming"
16:07:14 <qubodup> "i set up a build infrastructure around raspbery, i can't doo it in pidora. i geet a segfault when doing ...[?]..."
16:07:32 <qubodup> "what's different between fedora and debian raspberry projects being built?"
16:07:41 <qubodup> it should be able to find it in the compile flags
16:08:00 <qubodup> we don't have emulated use
16:08:03 <qubodup> odd
16:08:07 <qubodup> "it is odd"
16:08:27 <qubodup> #endmeeting