11:33:02 <jflory7> #startmeeting Fedora Hubs Meetup / Hackfest - Speaker: Pierre-Yves Chibon (pingou) 11:33:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Aug 5 11:33:02 2016 UTC. The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 11:33:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 11:33:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_hubs_meetup_/_hackfest_-_speaker:_pierre-yves_chibon_(pingou)' 11:33:05 <jflory7> #meetingname flock2016 11:33:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock2016' 11:33:16 <jflory7> #topic Getting ready / Introduction 11:33:41 * jflory7 wonders if it would be helpful for mizmo to be patched in via Google Hangouts if she is free 11:34:43 <mizmo> yeh 11:34:47 <mizmo> im up for it 11:35:03 <mizmo> um altho no video on the screen, i just woke up 30 min ago o_O 11:37:16 <jflory7> No worries :) 11:37:32 <jflory7> mizmo: We're probably going to be another 10 minutes or so, still getting set up / people coming in 11:37:36 <jflory7> Lunch just wrapped up 11:37:41 <mizmo> kk 11:40:48 <jflory7> #chair stickster mizmo 11:40:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: jflory7 mizmo stickster 11:41:27 <stickster> Should I be starting a G+ Hangout for some video support? 11:41:54 <stickster> Or maybe just audio makes more sense, I might be blocking the laptop camera ;-) 11:42:51 <mizmo> stickster, can you do a just audio one? 11:42:59 <stickster> will try 11:48:23 <skrzepto> +1 on audio 11:48:35 <jflory7> skrzepto: mizmo may be able to patch in? not sure 11:48:42 <jflory7> #topic What is Hubs? 11:48:53 <jflory7> #info Using fedmsg to capture all sorts of activities and information in Fedora 11:49:09 <jflory7> If someone builds a package or generates a message or starts a meeting, it all generates a message. 11:49:32 <jflory7> We've had the messaging bus for years now and we've learned a lot from all of this 11:50:19 <jflory7> #info Messages that cross over the bus all involve contributor activity - 1 thing with a problem (like other projects) is no easy way to connect people with teams that are of interest to them and resources they need to interact with these teams 11:51:15 <jflory7> #info Systems we use to talk to contributors has their challenges: IRC is challenging but it's not something most people in the world are familiar with, have to get client, join channel, register with NickServ, etc. (same thing can go for mailing lists) 11:51:52 <jflory7> #info Fedora Hubs brings together many systems that we use for communication and coordination and into a web-based view that quickly connects people to teams with people in there and what's happening in there (lowers the learning barrier) 11:52:12 <jflory7> #info Use a widget to follow a discussion and writing a reply, monitor discussion, etc. 11:52:50 <jflory7> #info Because we have fedmsg, we don't need to vent new channels and new activities that creates Balkanization problem of new vs. old contributors 11:53:12 <jflory7> #idea Opening new views into existing systems 11:53:24 <jflory7> #info Hubs is designed to not just be one arrangement, each team can have its own hub 11:53:33 <jflory7> Each hub can be configured to show the things that are of most interest to your team 11:53:41 <jflory7> We're still creating these widgets to give these tools to the users 11:53:48 <jflory7> Part of the work is framework to allow users to configure these on demand 11:53:50 <mizmo> the general model of just another interface on a preexisting tool is similar to hyperkitty 11:54:30 <jflory7> #topic What do we want to do? 11:54:32 <mizmo> and we can design new hubs specific to a given team / project's context based on their needs rather than having to shoehorn them into something too generic to be useful 11:55:05 <jflory7> < pingou takes the floor > 11:55:10 <mizmo> i dont know if this is too low level, but atelic, skrzepto and i found a really really weird bug yesterday and having a hard time tracking it 11:55:22 <mizmo> (if we're jumping in to hacking) 11:55:35 <mizmo> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243 11:55:43 <jflory7> mizmo: I think they're about to jump into planning 11:55:47 <mizmo> ah ok 11:56:10 <jflory7> skrzepto: There is a Hangouts on Air, stickster says he invited you. 11:57:16 <stickster> Let me see if I can find a URL to post 11:57:37 <mizmo> stickster, https://plus.google.com/events/cmvskl2r3ddc4t6gg21jvdqs2qo 11:57:52 <jflory7> < technical difficulties with projector > 11:57:56 <jflory7> < standby > :P 11:57:57 <stickster> Thanks mizmo ! 11:58:01 <skrzepto> that works :) 12:00:25 <jflory7> #chair ryanlerch lmacken sayan 12:00:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: jflory7 lmacken mizmo ryanlerch sayan stickster 12:01:43 * stickster is sick and apologizes if the coughing or nose blowing noise is loud :-( 12:03:03 <jflory7> #link https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org 12:04:47 <mizmo> who is the whisperer! 12:05:19 <jflory7> I think pingou - he's getting logged in and adjusting resolution. 12:05:27 <mizmo> hehe 12:06:22 <jflory7> We're looking at skrzepto's page 12:06:28 <skrzepto> :) 12:06:29 <jflory7> I can't get a working link to his page, though 12:06:38 <skrzepto> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/skrzepto/ 12:06:58 <jflory7> skrzepto++ 12:07:17 <skrzepto> if the feed is not loading its bc hubs is serving https and my sse backend is http :( 12:07:40 <skrzepto> also messages are stored 24hrs which is why we see messages 5hrs from now 12:07:59 <jflory7> Oh, I'm getting 500 server errors now 12:08:23 <skrzepto> jflory7, your right same :( 12:09:01 <jflory7> Q: "Where are the messages on skrzepto's feed coming from" - ryanlerch 12:09:32 * mizmo can't view live feed from here 12:09:34 <jflory7> A: fedmsg, you set your filters with FMN and run it, fedmsg might be catching up since 2 hours ago 12:10:00 <jflory7> mizmo: I think the host for the dev instance might have gone down? 12:10:14 <mizmo> ah ok 12:10:27 <jflory7> Not sure... 12:10:28 <skrzepto> mizmo, hubs is https and sse is http so there's a hack to allow it 12:10:44 <jflory7> #topic === Widgets === 12:10:48 <skrzepto> but it will complain that sse isn't https 12:10:49 <jflory7> Err 12:10:50 <jflory7> #undo 12:10:50 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x14e20f10> 12:10:54 <jflory7> #info === Widgets === 12:11:26 <jflory7> Once you have your Hubs running, you can configure widgets 12:11:34 <jflory7> Widgets configured individually 12:12:05 <jflory7> pingou might have a special instance, he is launching through all of Hubs 12:12:09 * jflory7 can't pull up the page 12:12:44 <jflory7> #info Adding widget to hub: View your Hub in edit mode, choose your widget, add it, and configure it on the prompt right after 12:12:48 <jflory7> Looking at the sticky widget 12:12:52 <jflory7> Like a notepad 12:12:58 <jflory7> < adds > 12:13:13 <jflory7> Sticky note present 12:13:18 <jflory7> But not nice to have it as first widget 12:13:21 <jflory7> So drag-n-drop 12:13:24 <jflory7> "Whoooo!" - threebean 12:13:32 <jflory7> And adjust the order 12:13:56 <jflory7> Can actually do it directly in configuration of widget to edit it 12:14:00 <jflory7> < edits text > 12:14:03 <jflory7> Back to edit mode in Hubs 12:14:10 <jflory7> After saving sticky mode in individual editing mode 12:14:16 <jflory7> One Python file for the logic 12:14:27 <jflory7> fedmsg consumer on backend 12:14:36 <jflory7> [ ... ] 12:14:47 <jflory7> Missed some details 12:14:48 <jflory7> Looking at Meetings widget 12:15:02 <jflory7> Choose the calendar you want to follow 12:15:04 <jflory7> Directly from Fedocal 12:15:11 <jflory7> It auto-completes with a dropdown 12:15:16 <jflory7> How many meetings do you want in your Hub? 12:15:19 <jflory7> You can decide. 12:15:50 <jflory7> Cache was refreshed, no Fedora releases coming yet, so the calendar is empty... 12:16:04 <jflory7> #info Requesting a new meeting in Hubs creates a new meeting in Fedocal 12:16:41 <mizmo> the audio died :( 12:16:47 <skrzepto> +1 12:16:50 <jflory7> mizmo: stickster is fixing 12:16:50 <skrzepto> echo 12:17:01 <stickster> argh 12:17:05 <jflory7> *? 12:17:10 <stickster> Is it back? 12:17:37 <jflory7> #info pkgdb: Seeing packages ready to be pushed to stable and other similar details in widgets 12:17:44 <jflory7> #info Badges: View all of your badges 12:17:52 <stickster> mizmo: back? 12:17:57 <jflory7> #info Pagure: Newest open pull requests on Pagure tagged with fedora-infra tag 12:18:03 <mizmo> yep : ) 12:18:14 <skrzepto> still little echo 12:18:29 <jflory7> #info Can also interact with GitHub and Bugzilla (other widgets coming from outside sources) 12:19:39 <jflory7> #idea Avoiding silo of communications: Sticky note is maybe not a good idea because then it isolates those *not* using Hubs, so there could be separation of information that someone may miss if they are not on Hubs 12:20:13 <jflory7> #idea WhenIsGood widget, but need to take caution on communication silos where it could separate the contributors who are and are not using Hubs 12:20:26 <jflory7> #info === Hubs groups === 12:20:29 <jflory7> Looking at infra-sig group 12:20:36 <jflory7> And now packager group 12:20:43 <jflory7> Sticky note and about pages 12:20:50 <jflory7> s/pages/widgets 12:20:52 <jflory7> Viewing all group owners 12:20:58 <jflory7> Should you want to see them all 12:21:02 <jflory7> All are work in progress 12:21:09 <jflory7> Designs Hubs up next! 12:21:37 <mizmo> designteam 12:21:40 <mizmo> nope 12:21:45 <mizmo> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/designteam/ 12:22:11 <jflory7> mizmo++ 12:22:19 <jflory7> pingou demoing the "all groups" feature 12:22:27 <jflory7> On the way to designteam hub, heheh 12:22:54 <jflory7> #link https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/groups 12:23:01 <jflory7> < now in designteam hub > 12:23:11 <jflory7> Subscribing to the Design Teams hub 12:23:18 <jflory7> Or not, heh 12:23:54 <jflory7> #info Able to have community rules and guidelines in a group hub, as well as meetings for schedule and past meeting minutes all from the main team widget 12:24:01 <jflory7> Meetings widget is also present 12:24:09 <jflory7> And an About widget you can configure 12:24:12 <jflory7> Still lots of things to do 12:24:15 <jflory7> No check to log in or not 12:24:27 <jflory7> I'm able to able to edit all of the widgets even though I'm not supposed to 12:24:29 <jflory7> Not done yet 12:24:33 <jflory7> Just makes development easier 12:25:29 <jflory7> #help Need more help on widgets, designing the hubs themselves for groups - design team has good representation with ryanlerch and mizmo, but we need more input and involvement with other groups and teams 12:25:49 <jflory7> #help Packager needs help and input since it's a large group 12:25:55 <jflory7> Zanata folks here with us 12:25:59 <jflory7> Adding webhooks to Zanata itself 12:26:03 <jflory7> fedmsg2zanata 12:26:07 <jflory7> Err, flip that 12:26:16 <jflory7> #link https://github.com/fedora-infra/zanata2fedmsg 12:26:30 <jflory7> The experience we want to show here 12:26:35 <jflory7> IRC integration! 12:27:21 <jflory7> #info IRC widget in progress which allows you to view design team channel (a la Facebook Messenger style) on IRC, you can live chat with the folks you can see on the hub 12:27:57 <jflory7> Easy, direct connection to the people doing that 12:28:11 <jflory7> s/that/working on teams 12:28:41 <jflory7> "It's coming to Hubs soon. Tomorrow? ...the day after tomorrow? ...the day after that?" - pingou 12:30:32 <jflory7> < looking at skrzepto's hub again > 12:30:37 <jflory7> < looking at feed > 12:30:48 <jflory7> #info Q: "My personal hub... will people be able to see that?" 12:31:28 <jflory7> #info A: Yes, but plan to get private and public side, e.g. your live feed, library widget, things from FAS 12:31:31 <mizmo> there is a personal stream (not personal profile hub) and atelic has a work in progress running on his system but i think its not on the dev server right now 12:31:50 <mizmo> and you can save stuff from your incoming stream that you like for later reference 12:31:52 <jflory7> Example being time zone, ("oh it's 4am for ryanlerch, maybe not good time to contact"), as helpful feature 12:31:59 <skrzepto> mizmo, yea its PR 12:32:28 <jflory7> #info Personal stream in development for saving things from your incoming stream for later reference 12:32:37 <mizmo> (you can also tell from a person's live feed if they're active and doing stuff in fedora right now) 12:32:48 <jflory7> #info === History of project === 12:32:57 <jflory7> Started with Design Team, mizmo, and threebean 12:33:07 <jflory7> Passed to pingou, passed to Simon now 12:33:29 <jflory7> s/Simon/sayan 12:33:37 <jflory7> sayan++ 12:33:54 <jflory7> #info New Hubs superhero will be sayan for leading the project forward 12:33:55 <mizmo> did pingou pass to sayan? or is it passed to pingou + sayan 12:34:03 <mizmo> oh ok 12:34:13 <jflory7> I think to sayan, pingou will still be around and involved, but not as much 12:34:46 <mizmo> there are a bunch of unassigned design tix https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=needsmockup 12:35:47 <jflory7> #help We need some assistance with the IRC widget with user use case, we're working with developers to developers - mockups would be helpful 12:35:48 <jflory7> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=needsmockup 12:35:50 <mizmo> im happy to mentor anyone wanting to pick up a design ticket 12:35:59 <jflory7> mizmo++ 12:36:02 <mizmo> user use case in irc? 12:36:20 * mizmo notes theres a lot of mockups for irc so interested in any holes / confusion there 12:36:26 <jflory7> mizmo: I think so, that was what I interpreted, from someone who's not an active dev / familiar with IRC already 12:41:05 <mizmo> so whats going on now 12:41:45 <skrzepto> mizmo, i think they are working on hubs now 12:41:49 <mizmo> ok 12:42:04 <mizmo> heres my pet bug https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243 12:42:04 <jflory7> Oops, was in wrong channel for a second... 12:42:17 <mizmo> this one is.... one very odd bird, ideas welcome 12:42:18 <jflory7> #info === So what do we want to do moving forward? === 12:42:25 <jflory7> Sorry, was using wrong channel for a minite... 12:42:32 <jflory7> Talking with Zanata folks 12:42:37 <jflory7> [14:41:06] <jflory7> Everyone is diving in...? 12:42:42 <jflory7> [14:41:15] <jflory7> mizmo: What was the bug again? 12:42:46 <jflory7> [14:41:21] <jflory7> mizmo: Could you re-link? 12:43:15 <mizmo> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/243 <= scavenger hunt, if anyone is up for a challenge 12:44:07 <jflory7> mizmo++ will mention 12:45:10 <jflory7> #info Q: "Do you have a Vagrant set up for this?" 12:45:37 <mizmo> is python venv not sufficient? 12:45:47 <jflory7> #info A: No-yes? ryanlerch has something he has been working on as a work in progress, but needs some more visiting 12:46:03 <jflory7> 243 is open now 12:46:05 <stickster> mizmo: It is, and works... the Vagrant setup probably saves a few steps for people not familiar with venv 12:46:15 <stickster> very popular tool with devs 12:46:54 <mizmo> my experience with vagrant - race condition kernel bug o_O 12:46:59 <jflory7> #help fedora-hubs#243 could use another pair of eyes 12:48:09 <jflory7> Think we're moving into free hacking space 12:48:36 <stickster> whoopsie 12:48:39 <skrzepto> regarding the read me 12:48:45 <skrzepto> we made install scripts :) 12:49:02 <jflory7> skrzepto: Ooh, where at?? 12:49:15 <skrzepto> ahh forgot to PR them to develop 12:49:22 <skrzepto> they are on the Jenkins branch 12:49:25 <skrzepto> one sec 12:50:10 <jflory7> #topic Open hacking 12:50:50 * jflory7 is getting bootstrapped with running local instance of Hubs again 12:51:08 <jflory7> Anyone remote, feel free to ping me for question / discussion topic / etc. 12:51:20 <jflory7> Will bring it up here 12:52:38 <mizmo> for bug 243 - it doesn't seem to happen on promoted pages (like designteam), only on personal hubs or hubs with just one button 12:52:42 <mizmo> http://localhost:5000/designteam/ <= no problem 12:52:50 <mizmo> http://localhost:5000/duffy/ <= oopsie 12:55:25 * jflory7 is going to be AFK for a bit] 12:55:44 <mizmo> stickster, coolio 12:56:04 <mizmo> sorry google ui sucks 12:56:11 <skrzepto> it was great :) 12:56:24 <mizmo> stickster, the google hangouts UI sucks and im stuck trying to find the stupid thing 12:57:10 <stickster> mizmo: OK -- we can just have people find you on IRC if they want to interact 12:57:21 <mizmo> +1 12:57:27 <stickster> mizmo: skrzepto: Also, I might just shut down the audio feed then 12:57:40 <skrzepto> stickster, thats fine 12:57:41 <stickster> Otherwise you'll probably just hear a mishmosh of conversations with no real help 12:57:43 <mizmo> if i kept it off mute you'd hear occasional 3 year old screams lol 12:57:45 <stickster> haha 12:57:54 <skrzepto> :) 12:57:54 <stickster> mizmo: it's like being in an engineering department only with more naps 12:58:04 <mizmo> lol and more thomas the train 12:58:07 <stickster> heh 12:58:13 <stickster> OK, shutting down hangout 12:58:16 <mizmo> kk 13:40:48 <jflory7> I think we're packing up here. Going to send the minutes out across a few lists... lots of great info logged here. :) 13:40:50 <jflory7> #endmeeting